MrMan wrote:
How many anti-marriage MGTOWs are there? Ten thousand? A hundred thousand? How many billions of men have been married throughout history.
The vast majority of MGTOW have never even heard of the term. Morever, different cultures have different terms for what we call MGTOW. My estimation is that MGTOW is in the hundreds of millions AND GROWING.
We see evidence of this exponential growth in various phenomena like books imploring men to "Man Up" and start marrying against their best interests again, falling reproductive rates in the middle and upper classes, and the ubiquitous female complaints of, "Where have all the good men gone?" My response is that they have gone their own way!
[/quote]
About history, kings and philosophers who could afford education and luxury typically married, too. Most of history--and much of what we can read about marriage in history-- is written about influential people, not peasants. Marriage was never just for peasants.
I think of MGTOW as men who hold to a certain philosophy, not just men who have opted out of marry... what one author called 'Men on Strike.' Where is this happening? It's happening in the western world, where 1) The family legal system leans anti-male. 2) In countries that have strong legal institutions that can actually enforce legal judgments. 3) Among populations where social mores and religious beliefs do not strongly sanction sex outside of marriage. This is the 'Happier Abroad' forum. In much of Asia, the first two points do not apply, and in many parts of Asia, none of those points apply.
In the US and other western countries, it still is possible to find a decent woman to marry, just difficult. And the man has to manage the relationship properly.
You should call your philosophy MGTYW, since you have been insisting on men going your way. If a man wants to marry and does so, he's going his own way. You've been insisting on conformity to your anti-marriage philosophy.
MrMan wrote:
You treat anti-marriage MGTOW like a religion.
This is an example of PROJECTING behavior. In other words, you are a self-professed "Christian" full of blind and irrational faith in what was written millennia ago and faith in what you are systematically programmed by family and church to believe. This is quintessentially divorced of reason.
MGTOW tend to live life based on RATIONAL, LOGICAL, and PRAGMATIC considerations, yet you are accusing MGTOW of being like a religion. If you had more self-awareness, you would know you are describing and criticizing yourself when you project in that manner. [/quote]
No, you are the one whose beliefs are irrational. It is not irrational to believe in revealed religion. But it is irrational to think that every man who says he is pleased with his marriage must be in denial, because that is what an ideology developed on blogs and in YouTube videos requires you to believe. There is no reason to think that is true of all married men. And there is certainly no reason to extend your ideology to men who live outside of the European world who marry women from cultures where women are expect to cook and clean and look to their husbands for leadership. You can't guess or insist universal truths into being.
I talked with a Communist who set up a table on a college campus in the early 1990's. He really believed that there should and would be a Communist revolution and that society would go through a transformation to socialism to a point where people were sharing with each other without the government. It doesn't make any sense to think that Marx could 'prophesy' the final stages of Communism accurate and to be an atheist at the same time. A philosophy, economic approach, or social ideology just based on someone's ideas of how they think things will play out should not be treated like some kind of absolute truth. Neither should MGTOW ideas about marriage.
turning on. Most of these idiots are baby boomer types, but each new generation of men gets better at seeing marriage rationally enough to reject it.
