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Why Men Still Defend Marriage

Vent your rants and raves here about whatever makes you mad, angry or frustrated.

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Yohan
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Re: Why Men Still Defend Marriage

Post by Yohan » September 18th, 2018, 3:09 am

flowerthief00 wrote:
September 18th, 2018, 1:11 am
... the most foolish of the fools is the man who tries to make a whore into a housewife
Very true - and it's not only about Western women. - There are plenty of so-called horror stories about Western men, who were into yellow-fever dreams and truly believed in some nonsense about 'my bargirl is different' somewhere in Asia, especially in Thailand and Philippines.

Some of these men left finally going back home penniless, some are now homeless in Asia begging and sleeping in a corner near to a 7/11, some others were drinking a bottle of whiskey and jumped out of a window ...

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Re: Why Men Still Defend Marriage

Post by MrMan » September 18th, 2018, 4:43 am

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
September 17th, 2018, 5:41 pm
You can always tell a married man trying to defend the indefensible. It is quite pathetic to behold these types squirm and rationalize all while knowing deep down that their lives suck.
I notice a trend in your posts. You project your own ideas onto other people's posts.

Frankly, the idea of not getting married up into your 50's sounds kind of lonely and boring. I like being married and having kids.

But if you say you enjoy being single more than you think you would being married, I can accept that you believe that... probably. You could just be saying that because you are in denial, but me accusing you of that would just irritate you. To me, the idea of paying girls allowances to keep them as girlfriends to sleep with them sounds like a miserable pathetic life. But if you say you think you enjoy that more than being married, I can take it at face value that you think that way. Your accusing men who disagree with you of lying or being in denial does not convince us that we are lying or in denial, and makes you look bad to third parties who read your posts. Providing a solid, reasoned argument goes farther than just implying or stating that those who disagree with you are actually lying.

We are not all the same. Different men want different things.
It takes a man greater than a defeated married type to publically acknowledge his lamentable status. That is why they will litter you with empty platitudes like “Marriage is guud” and “I used to get sex all the time when my wife was young and hot!”
I did have lots and lots of sex with my wife, especially when we first got married. I haven't had sex seven nights in a row with my wife in a long time (intercourse, I mean.) But three or four times a week isn't that bad for our age. Marriage is a lot deeper than that, though, and goes into a lot of other areas of relationship besides sex and initial attraction.
Last edited by MrMan on September 18th, 2018, 4:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why Men Still Defend Marriage

Post by MrMan » September 18th, 2018, 5:01 am

Yohan wrote:
September 17th, 2018, 6:42 pm
I am from Europe and more than 40 years married, and I can say, out of my observation with other men from Europe that your statement is only true, when you relocate to a country which is clearly not feminist-friendly. As far I as know, you are connected to a woman from Indonesia, which population is about 90 percent Islamic orientated.
It's probaby more like low 80's, maybe 70s Islamic, but the government doesn't want to say that and village heads may wrongly register people as Muslims. I knew some people who got their ID cards back with the wrong info on them. But my wife's people-group are not predominantly Muslim either. Muslims in their area are a minority. Even so, they have a more conservative culture in a lot of ways in the US. In the rural areas especially, it is a big deal and a bad thing for a girl to lose her virginity before marriage.
Living in Western countries as a married man with a so-called 'grrl next door' is simply said, too risky - there are legal concerns, but also behavior related problems like drugs and alcohol, refusing sex with the husband but sleep around with boyfriends, and don't expect her to do any housework like cooking....
I don't hang out at young millenial couples houses in the US. I'm not against it. It just hasn't happened much, so I can't really say about the housework stuff. But it does seem like there are American women who still cook and do housework these days. I would have only considered a very conservative, serious Christian girl if I had been looking in the US, just like I did in Indonesia. And I was looking for a virgin. They seem rather rare, but they do exist. There seem to be a lot more of them in places like Indonesia, though.

I don't get why American men would go to a place like the Filippines or Indonesia and marry a girl who is not a virgin when there are so many of them in the US. Maybe it's because they want to jump in a bed with a woman, then get attached after that.
If 50% of marriages in the US end in divorce, the other 50% do not. There are marriages that stick together out there, where the couple actually get along and both experience a 'net gain' from the relationship.
This statistic is not correct, as at least in EU (but likely also in USA etc.) a marriage contract which holds longer than 10 years is considered as fulfilled and a divorce past 10 years is not counted. Divorce rate is likely somewhere around 70 percent in Western countries or higher, as co-habitation is considered 'same as married' after a few months and carries the same financial risk for a man.
[/quote]

I read an article some time ago debunking the 50% divorce rate as too high, saying it married new marriages. Some are 'repeat offenders' whose multiple marriages keep gettin measured as new marriages. I haven't done the digging in this area recently. I know divorce rates are too high in the US.
If you cannot relocate, the only solution to be relatively safe against irresponsible demands from females is to remain single, no children and to avoid any risky nonsense actions -like co-habitation, adoption, sperm donor....
I had an uncle who lived into his 90's. The doctor told him it wasn't good for him to eat certain foods, but he didn't care. His wife was in her late 80s and didn't eat certain kinds of vegetables-- like squash-- because the doctor told her she was sensitive to them somehow and said not to eat them. His attitude was that he was in his 90s and he was going to eat what he wanted. How much time did he have left? He ate catfish and frog legs when I went out to eat with him once.

Doesn't it make sense to take the risks to enjoy life a bit if life is short? How about a risk to make our life meaningful and to have an impact on others? Men who marry or have kids might 'risk' spending more money or heartbreak, but does it make sense to go through life eating one kind of bland wafer that contains all the vitamins you need to survive that is shown not to irritate the stomach or cause allergies based on the fact that eating regular food contains all kinds of risks? I don't think so. I like food. I want my life to have some flavor to it.

The sperm donor thing is crazy. A man doesn't get to know his kids. I don't get the reason men go for that. Do they get paid a few bucks like homeless people get for selling their blood?
Married men tend to live longer, so there may be some health benefits to it.
In which country? For example in Russia this is not the case, men die very early, much earlier than women - life expectancy is only 64 years or so...[/quote]

I am not sure the source for this, but people with PhDs in the social sciences will quote this. I have read it in articles. It could be US data. Men do die younger. Married men tend to outlive single men from what I have read.

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Re: Why Men Still Defend Marriage

Post by retiredfrank » September 18th, 2018, 5:30 am

Single men category includes a huge number of low tier men (criminals, alcoholics, insane, disabled, etc) with low life expectancy. Also many single men are homosexuals, who have low life expectancy because of HIV. If you first select only heterosexual men in the top tier (on terms of genetic health, education, wealth) then divide into married and single, the singles actually outlive the marrieds historically. Single heterosexuals in the top tier tended historically to be highly disciplined ascetic types, which is probably reason for long life expectancy. Historically, men could not easily get sex outside marriage so only ascetics among top tier men would stay single. Bottom tier single men want marriage but can't get it, whereas top tier single men are highly sought after by women historically.

Nowadays, things are changing and many top tier heterosexuals, both men and women, are choosing to stay single and never have children, because sex is now available outside marriage. These singles may very well outlive the married cohort. Marriage people with children tend to neglect their own health on favor of the health of their children and grandchildren, whereas singles can spend all their energy taking care of themselves.

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Re: Why Men Still Defend Marriage

Post by Contrarian Expatriate » September 18th, 2018, 10:57 am

MrMan wrote:
September 18th, 2018, 4:43 am
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
September 17th, 2018, 5:41 pm
You can always tell a married man trying to defend the indefensible. It is quite pathetic to behold these types squirm and rationalize all while knowing deep down that their lives suck.
I notice a trend in your posts. You project your own ideas onto other people's posts.

Frankly, the idea of not getting married up into your 50's sounds kind of lonely and boring. I like being married and having kids.

But if you say you enjoy being single more than you think you would being married, I can accept that you believe that... probably. You could just be saying that because you are in denial, but me accusing you of that would just irritate you. To me, the idea of paying girls allowances to keep them as girlfriends to sleep with them sounds like a miserable pathetic life. But if you say you think you enjoy that more than being married, I can take it at face value that you think that way. Your accusing men who disagree with you of lying or being in denial does not convince us that we are lying or in denial, and makes you look bad to third parties who read your posts. Providing a solid, reasoned argument goes farther than just implying or stating that those who disagree with you are actually lying.

We are not all the same. Different men want different things.
It takes a man greater than a defeated married type to publically acknowledge his lamentable status. That is why they will litter you with empty platitudes like “Marriage is guud” and “I used to get sex all the time when my wife was young and hot!”
I did have lots and lots of sex with my wife, especially when we first got married. I haven't had sex seven nights in a row with my wife in a long time (intercourse, I mean.) But three or four times a week isn't that bad for our age. Marriage is a lot deeper than that, though, and goes into a lot of other areas of relationship besides sex and initial attraction.
:lol:
This coming from the person who actually MARRIED his Indonesian "bar girl?"
:lol:

If you had any clue, you'd literally throw her out on the street today and divorce her forthwith! Now that your bargirl is older and fatter and, according to you, does not give you so much sex anymore, would you marry her again if you had the opportunity to do it all over? Of course you will claim that you would, but if you have an ounce of integrity, you would admit the truth that you would not!

Fellas: Don't marry Asian bar girls and prostitutes then try to bamboozle others into doing what you do. No, your particular bargirl is not "different." Many of them are con artists and they prey upon men like Mr. Man who admits he was a woeful virgin when he encountered his wife at some bar girl bar. Nothing to be at all proud of in that story pal!

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Re: Why Men Still Defend Marriage

Post by MrMan » September 18th, 2018, 6:53 pm

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
September 18th, 2018, 10:57 am
MrMan wrote:
September 18th, 2018, 4:43 am
Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
September 17th, 2018, 5:41 pm
You can always tell a married man trying to defend the indefensible. It is quite pathetic to behold these types squirm and rationalize all while knowing deep down that their lives suck.
I notice a trend in your posts. You project your own ideas onto other people's posts.

Frankly, the idea of not getting married up into your 50's sounds kind of lonely and boring. I like being married and having kids.

But if you say you enjoy being single more than you think you would being married, I can accept that you believe that... probably. You could just be saying that because you are in denial, but me accusing you of that would just irritate you. To me, the idea of paying girls allowances to keep them as girlfriends to sleep with them sounds like a miserable pathetic life. But if you say you think you enjoy that more than being married, I can take it at face value that you think that way. Your accusing men who disagree with you of lying or being in denial does not convince us that we are lying or in denial, and makes you look bad to third parties who read your posts. Providing a solid, reasoned argument goes farther than just implying or stating that those who disagree with you are actually lying.

We are not all the same. Different men want different things.
It takes a man greater than a defeated married type to publically acknowledge his lamentable status. That is why they will litter you with empty platitudes like “Marriage is guud” and “I used to get sex all the time when my wife was young and hot!”
I did have lots and lots of sex with my wife, especially when we first got married. I haven't had sex seven nights in a row with my wife in a long time (intercourse, I mean.) But three or four times a week isn't that bad for our age. Marriage is a lot deeper than that, though, and goes into a lot of other areas of relationship besides sex and initial attraction.
:lol:
This coming from the person who actually MARRIED his Indonesian "bar girl?"
:lol:

If you had any clue, you'd literally throw her out on the street today and divorce her forthwith! Now that your bargirl is older and fatter and, according to you, does not give you so much sex anymore, would you marry her again if you had the opportunity to do it all over? Of course you will claim that you would, but if you have an ounce of integrity, you would admit the truth that you would not!

Fellas: Don't marry Asian bar girls and prostitutes then try to bamboozle others into doing what you do. No, your particular bargirl is not "different." Many of them are con artists and they prey upon men like Mr. Man who admits he was a woeful virgin when he encountered his wife at some bar girl bar. Nothing to be at all proud of in that story pal!
Dear Liar,

My wife was a virgin when I married her, not a bar girl. She doesn't go to bars, and neither do I. According to case law, if you impugn a woman's virtue, the other party in a slander or libel lawsuit does not have to prove that you held up their name in a community for you to be held libel. You have posted personal web information about yourself on the forum, including your picture and information about yourself on YouTube and elsewhere. It is extremely foolish of you to engage in libel on this forum.

My is not fat, either. My weight can go up and down. She's got some kind of thin Asian gene, or it's a lifestyle thing, and still looks thin and young.

If you could actually make a persuasive case for what you are arguing, why would you have to resort to low-brow tactics like calling a man's wife a bar girl, saying some thin woman you have never seen is fat, saying people who disagree with you are lying, or have small penises, and try the manipulative shaming tactics on those who disagree with you. The fact that you do such things speaks volumes of your character. If you treat women like that, no wonder you have to pay them an allowance to get them to stick around you for any length of time.

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Re: Why Men Still Defend Marriage

Post by MrMan » September 18th, 2018, 6:56 pm

retiredfrank wrote:
September 18th, 2018, 5:30 am
Single men category includes a huge number of low tier men (criminals, alcoholics, insane, disabled, etc) with low life expectancy. Also many single men are homosexuals, who have low life expectancy because of HIV. If you first select only heterosexual men in the top tier (on terms of genetic health, education, wealth) then divide into married and single, the singles actually outlive the marrieds historically. Single heterosexuals in the top tier tended historically to be highly disciplined ascetic types, which is probably reason for long life expectancy. Historically, men could not easily get sex outside marriage so only ascetics among top tier men would stay single. Bottom tier single men want marriage but can't get it, whereas top tier single men are highly sought after by women historically.
Do you have any historical data to show that the single men who died younger were homosexuals, or is this just conjecture? Are there any studies in the social sciences that support your theory? If so, please let me know the authors, year, title, and if you can, a link to the study. That looks interesting.

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Re: Why Men Still Defend Marriage

Post by Contrarian Expatriate » September 18th, 2018, 7:11 pm

MrMan wrote:
September 18th, 2018, 6:53 pm
According to case law, if you impugn a woman's virtue, the other party in a slander or libel lawsuit does not have to prove that you held up their name in a community for you to be held libel. You have posted personal web information about yourself on the forum, including your picture and information about yourself on YouTube and elsewhere. It is extremely foolish of you to engage in libel on this forum.
I got that impression from your descriptions of how you met your wife in Indonesia.

But do you really think that I put my actual photo up? Do you really think that I put doxable information up online without "adjusting" it? Much of that is adjusted so that guys like you could never know what is accurate and what is diversionary. Come on..... I thought you were brighter than that!

But truth is always a valid defense to a libel charge so you would lose!
MrMan wrote: My is not fat, either. My weight can go up and down. She's got some kind of thin Asian gene, or it's a lifestyle thing, and still looks thin and young.
Of course she's not as attractive as she was when you first married her. If your wife looked then as she looks now, you and I both know you would not have wanted to marry her. This is why marriage exists. To keep dupes like yourself tethered to aging females who no one else wants.
MrMan wrote: If you treat women like that, no wonder you have to pay them an allowance to get them to stick around you for any length of time.
Actually, I pay them so they can go away. That does not resonate with a man legally linked to a wife who he no longer really wants. Some of us actually like our freedom which you'll never enjoy.

Do yourself a favor. When you look at your wife, think of what I wrote about how she is no longer worth it and kick her out of the house and initiate your divorce. When you taste the sweetness of freedom from a wife, you'll understand it then and kick yourself for ever marrying her.

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Re: Why Men Still Defend Marriage

Post by MrMan » September 18th, 2018, 7:21 pm

Contrarian Expat,

Why don't you just behave yourself and try to act like a decent human being, quit lying, and present your arguments with reason instead of insults?

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Re: Why Men Still Defend Marriage

Post by MrMan » September 18th, 2018, 7:31 pm

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:
September 18th, 2018, 7:11 pm
I got that impression from your descriptions of how you met your wife in Indonesia.

But do you really think that I put my actual photo up? Do you really think that I put doxable information up online without "adjusting" it? Much of that is adjusted so that guys like you could never know what is accurate and what is diversionary. Come on..... I thought you were brighter than that!
No, I think you put your real photo up, but you probably have it down by down. And you are probably trying to throw me off the trail with my comment. Don't worry. Behave yourself and avoid torts, and it will not be an issue.
But truth is always a valid defense to a libel charge so you would lose!
You would definitely lose in that regard. For your own reference in the future, impugning a woman's virginity has some special protections around it that do not require the same level of proof. Case law varies by state, but what you are doing is foolish.
MrMan wrote: My is not fat, either. My weight can go up and down. She's got some kind of thin Asian gene, or it's a lifestyle thing, and still looks thin and young.
Of course she's not as attractive as she was when you first married her. If your wife looked then as she looks now, you and I both know you would not have wanted to marry her. This is why marriage exists. To keep dupes like yourself tethered to aging females who no one else wants.
So does that whole part of life that has to do with caring about other people in your life, loving other people, not reasonate with you at all? I don't expect you to get it. If my whole objective in life was to get the best-looking woman to sleep with me, and I didn't care about anything else, maybe I would agree with you. But there is a lot more to life than that.

I know what it is like to be single. You don't know what it is like to be married and to have someone care for you that way. Don't assume you know what other people think, feel, or experience. Not only is it irritating to others you try to insult, shame or manipulate into agreeing with you about how they feel. It also makes you look like a fool.

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Re: Why Men Still Defend Marriage

Post by Contrarian Expatriate » September 18th, 2018, 7:50 pm

MrMan wrote: No, I think you put your real photo up, but you probably have it down by down.
The YouTube photo is of Dennis Haysbert, not me. 😆 But think what you want.
MrMan wrote: You don't know what it is like to be married and to have someone care for you that way. Don't assume you know what other people think, feel, or experience.
I don’t have to stick my hand in a pot of boiling water to know that it would be very bad. Neither must I be married to know the same. Also, your reactions make it very clear that you know I’m right though you are too invested in the myths to admit it.

Finally, I could care less about your miserable married life, this is all about saving the younger men from falling for the trap you’ve ended up in. Get out now if you have an ounce of courage and intelligence.

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Re: Why Men Still Defend Marriage

Post by retiredfrank » September 18th, 2018, 8:27 pm

MrMan wrote:
September 18th, 2018, 6:56 pm
retiredfrank wrote:
September 18th, 2018, 5:30 am
Single men category includes a huge number of low tier men (criminals, alcoholics, insane, disabled, etc) with low life expectancy. Also many single men are homosexuals, who have low life expectancy because of HIV. If you first select only heterosexual men in the top tier (on terms of genetic health, education, wealth) then divide into married and single, the singles actually outlive the marrieds historically. Single heterosexuals in the top tier tended historically to be highly disciplined ascetic types, which is probably reason for long life expectancy. Historically, men could not easily get sex outside marriage so only ascetics among top tier men would stay single. Bottom tier single men want marriage but can't get it, whereas top tier single men are highly sought after by women historically.
Do you have any historical data to show that the single men who died younger were homosexuals, or is this just conjecture? Are there any studies in the social sciences that support your theory? If so, please let me know the authors, year, title, and if you can, a link to the study. That looks interesting.
Don't be such a dipshit. Of course there are no "scientific" studies because there is no way to objectively categorize men as low versus high tier. But there are anecdotal studies of centurians and some patterns show up. Such as that many of the centurions were childless, more than would be expected. And of course strong tendency for centurions to be lean, mostly vegetarian, sound sleepers, cheerful, and other things a person with common sense would expect to see in centurions.

I'm certainly not suggesting a person should forego marriage and children to live longer, of course. We all die eventually and what's the point of living a long time and not being happy? So if being married and with children makes a person happy, that's what he should do. But don't expect marriage and children in themselves to make you love longer. Happiness as side effect of marriage and children, if any, should increase longevity, just as unhappiness side effect, if any, would be expected to reduce longevity substantially. Use common sense.

As for the homosexuals, I shouldn't have mentioned that because HIV is not an historical phenomenon but rather recent. Possibly historically homosexuals (who are usually childless, though occasional homosexuals have sex with a woman just to impregnate her but not for pleasure) were as long lived as childless heterosexual men. Again, read the studies of centurions and think for yourself instead of relying on "scientific" studies which are full of bogus statistics and bereft of common sense.

And go find the studies of centurions yourself. I'm not your personal research assistant/librarian.

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Yohan
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Re: Why Men Still Defend Marriage

Post by Yohan » September 19th, 2018, 1:33 am

MrMan wrote:
September 18th, 2018, 6:56 pm
Do you have any historical data to show that the single men who died younger were homosexuals, or is this just conjecture? Are there any studies in the social sciences that support your theory? If so, please let me know the authors, year, title, and if you can, a link to the study. That looks interesting.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/newslett ... ens-health
Marriage and men's health

There is a rather long summary, which includes some observation about married straight men, but also about same sex couples...
Harvard Men's Health Watch
Marriage and men's health
Published: July, 2010
Men of a certain age may remember the tune, if not the words:

Love and marriage, love and marriage,
Go together like a horse and carriage.
This I tell you, brother,
You can't have one without the other.

Much has changed, obviously, since the horse and buggy days. And when it comes to marriage, there have also been enormous changes since Sammy Cahn penned his romantic lyrics in the Ozzie and Harriet era. Many people find love without getting married, and many marriages turn loveless and hostile as divorce rates soar. Single parenting is now common, and society is becoming increasingly comfortable with various patterns of cohabitation.

The many social, economic, psychological, and spiritual ramifications of these huge changes have been the topic of much discussion and debate, and more will follow. Without treading into these deep waters, though, it's also useful to ask how marriage itself affects men's health.

Men, marriage, and mortality
A major survey of 127,545 American adults found that married men are healthier than men who were never married or whose marriages ended in divorce or widowhood. Men who have marital partners also live longer than men without spouses; men who marry after age 25 get more protection than those who tie the knot at a younger age, and the longer a man stays married, the greater his survival advantage over his unmarried peers. But is marriage itself responsible for better health and longer life?

Although it's hard to be sure, marriage seems to deserve at least part of the credit. Some have argued that self-selection would skew the results if healthy men are more likely to marry than men with health problems. But research shows the reverse is true: unhealthy men actually marry earlier, are less likely to divorce, and are more likely to remarry following divorce or bereavement than healthy men.

Another potential factor is loneliness; is the institution of marriage linked to better health, or is it simply a question of living with another person? Although studies vary, the answer seems to be a little of both. People living with unmarried partners tend to fare better than those living alone, but men living with their wives have the best health of all.

Numerous studies conducted over the past 150 years suggest that marriage is good for health. More recently, scientists have begun to understand why married men enjoy better health than their single, divorced, and widowed peers. But before we turn to the why, let's look at how marriage affects specific diseases, including America's leading killers, cardiovascular disease and cancer.

Are educated wives heartbreakers?
In the 1980s, several studies suggested that men whose wives had more education than they had were more likely to die from coronary artery disease than men married to less educated women. With more and more women getting advanced degrees, that might give some single guys pause. But a 2002 study found that the more educated a man's wife, the lower his risk for coronary artery disease and risk factors such as hypertension, obesity, high cholesterol, smoking, and lack of exercise. And a 2009 study reported that men married to more educated women also enjoyed a lower death rate than men married to less educated women. In the contemporary world, smart wives promote healthy hearts.

Marriage and the heart
If marriage protects health, the heart would be a likely beneficiary. Japanese scientists reported that never-married men were three times more likely to die from cardiovascular disease than married men. And a report from the Framingham Offspring Study also suggests that marriage is truly heartwarming. Scientists evaluated 3,682 adults over a 10-year period. Even after taking major cardiovascular risk factors such as age, body fat, smoking, blood pressure, diabetes, and cholesterol into account, married men had a 46% lower rate of death than unmarried men.

In the Framingham study, marital happiness did not seem to influence the overall protective effect of marriage. But in other studies, marital unhappiness and stress have been linked to an important cardiac risk factor, hypertension. Over time, in fact, marital stress is associated with thickening of the heart's main pumping chamber, but job stress does not take a similar toll on the heart.

Coronary artery disease and hypertension are among the most important causes of heart failure, a chronic disabling condition that results when the weakened heart muscle is unable to pump all the blood that the body's tissues need. But even after this serious problem has developed, a supportive marriage is associated with improved survival.

Marriage and cancer
The well-established links between stress, depression, social isolation, and heart disease make it easy to see how a good marriage might protect the heart. But cancer is a different matter. Indeed, there is little evidence that marriage reduces the overall risk of getting cancer. Still, marriage can influence the outcome. For example, a study of 27,779 cancer cases found that unmarried individuals were more likely to have advanced disease at the time of diagnosis than married persons. Unmarried patients were less likely to receive treatment than married patients — but even among people who received cancer therapy, marriage was linked to improved survival. Patients who have intact marriages when cancer is diagnosed have better survival than patients who are separated at the time of diagnosis.

Prostate cancer is a particular concern for men. To find out how marriage affects survival, scientists from the University of Miami investigated 143,063 men with the disease. Over a 17-year period, married men survived far longer (median 69 months) than separated and widowed patients (38 months); men who had never married had an intermediate survival rate (49 months). And researchers from Harvard and UCLA have identified similar survival benefits for married patients with bladder cancer, a predominantly male disease.

Other health issues
Although the data are sparse, marriage appears to have a positive effect on a variety of health outcomes. Mental health is the most prominent; married men have a lower risk of depression and a higher likelihood of satisfaction with life in retirement than their unmarried peers. Being married has also been linked to better cognitive function, a reduced risk of Alzheimer's disease, improved blood sugar levels, and better outcomes for hospitalized patients. In contrast, widowhood boosts the likelihood of sexually transmitted diseases in men, but not women.

Couples "therapy"
It's often said that old married couples come to resemble each other. That may or may not be true, but according to Italian researchers, married couples do have similar cardiac risk factors. In their 2009 report, the scientists reviewed 71 earlier studies that covered more than 100,000 couples. All in all, the spouses demonstrated many shared risk factors, including hypertension, diabetes, cholesterol, obesity, and smoking. Some of the similarities can be explained by the tendency for people to choose spouses like themselves, and some of the shared risk factors depend on lifestyle habits partners have in common. That's why Australian doctors have reported success with a program that seeks to improve nutrition and exercise habits in both spouses simultaneously. That's couples therapy with a new twist.

Marital strife and divorce
A good marriage can improve a man's health, but marital discord can take its toll on both happiness and health. In the MRFIT study of 10,904 American married men, for example, men who divorced were 37% more likely to die during the nine-year study than men who remained married. Similarly, a British study of 9,011 civil servants linked stressful relationships to a 34% increase in the risk of heart attacks and angina. And an Israeli study of 10,059 men found that stressful family relationships appeared to increase the risk of dying from a stroke by 34%. Divorce also triggers a sharp increase in the rate of suicide by men, but not women.

Bereavement
Because women live longer than men, women are far more likely to lose a spouse than are men. But spousal bereavement is actually more serious for men, and a study from California tells just how serious it is. The study did not measure the psychological and socioeconomic burdens of bereavement. Instead, the researchers focused on another impact of spousal bereavement, the mortality of the surviving spouse.

The study tracked 12,522 married people over a 14- to 23-year period. During that time, 1,453 men and 3,294 women lost their spouses. Subsequently, 30% of the bereaved men died themselves, while only 15% of the women succumbed. Healthy men who lost a wife were 2.1 times more likely to die during the study period than healthy men who were not bereaved; for men with preexisting medical problems, bereavement boosted the rate of death 1.6 times. The risk was greatest from seven to 12 months after the loss, but an elevated death rate persisted for more than two years. Shakespeare was right when he wrote of "deadly grief."

Research from around the world confirms that the death of a spouse increases the likelihood of illness and disability in the surviving spouse, and that men are more vulnerable than women. One reason that widowers fare so poorly is that nutrition and other health habits deteriorate when men are on their own; even a wife's hospitalization is hazardous to her husband's health. Another factor is social isolation. And a study of 1,667 men in the Boston area linked the death of a spouse to a decline in testosterone levels comparable to the drop that occurs during 10 years of aging.

Same-sex couples
Do the health benefits of marriage extend to same-sex spouses or partners in civil unions? Because such parings are uncommon and new in the U.S., no American data are available. But same-sex partnerships were sanctioned in Denmark in 1989, and a study evaluated 4,914 men and 3,419 women who entered such relationships between 1989 and 2004. The men who were in same-sex partnerships before highly effective anti-HIV drug therapy became available in 1995 had a high mortality rate. Women and men who entered same-sex unions after 1995 had mortality rates similar to the general population after a small excess during the first few years of their union. But since the researchers did not compare the mortality rates of homosexual couples with those of unmarried gays and lesbians, it's impossible to know whether same-sex unions are associated with health benefits comparable to those enjoyed by married heterosexuals.

Explanations
Good marriages promote health and longevity, but stressful and shattered marriages have the opposite effect, especially for men. Why?

The explanations fall into three categories: biological, behavioral, and psychological.

The biological explanations center on stress. Martial conflicts produce elevated levels of stress hormones such as adrenaline, which raise blood pressure. Marital stress also triggers the production of cytokines, small proteins that set the inflammatory cascade in motion. Inflammation is a newly recognized cardiac risk factor, and divorced men have higher levels of inflammatory markers than married men.

The behavioral factors are no less important. Unmarried, divorced, and widowed men don't eat as well as married men. They are less likely to exercise but are more likely to smoke, drink excessively, and engage in other risky behaviors. In contrast, married men are more likely to get regular medical care and to benefit from a higher standard of living. But while senior citizens who live with a spouse get better preventive care than those who live alone, elders who live with an adult child do not get better care.

Loneliness, depression, and social isolation also contribute to the excess mortality associated with bereavement, divorce, or never having married. A Harvard study reported that socially isolated men have an 82% higher risk of dying from heart disease, compared with men who have strong interpersonal relationships. And the New England Research Institute reported that 66% of men rely on their wives for their primary social supports; only 21% rely on other people, and 10% have no such supports. Clearly, subtracting a wife greatly increases a man's risk of isolation.

Perspectives
Many men marry for love, some for money, and others for a variety of personal and family reasons. Until now, at least, few have married for health. Should that change?

Not really. Happily married men might add health to the things they thank their wives for. Unhappily married men should work with their wives to reduce stress and improve their relationship. But instead of marrying for health, unmarried men should try to achieve some of the health benefits they're missing. That means making wise choices about diet, exercise, alcohol, and other health behaviors. It means seeing your doctor even if you don't have a wife to drag you in, and it means seeking ways to reduce stress and build social ties and mutually supportive relationships. None of this will earn a marital deduction on your 1040 form, but it will improve your health.

MrMan
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Re: Why Men Still Defend Marriage

Post by MrMan » September 20th, 2018, 5:51 am

retiredfrank wrote:
September 18th, 2018, 8:27 pm
MrMan wrote:
September 18th, 2018, 6:56 pm
retiredfrank wrote:
September 18th, 2018, 5:30 am
Single men category includes a huge number of low tier men (criminals, alcoholics, insane, disabled, etc) with low life expectancy. Also many single men are homosexuals, who have low life expectancy because of HIV. If you first select only heterosexual men in the top tier (on terms of genetic health, education, wealth) then divide into married and single, the singles actually outlive the marrieds historically. Single heterosexuals in the top tier tended historically to be highly disciplined ascetic types, which is probably reason for long life expectancy. Historically, men could not easily get sex outside marriage so only ascetics among top tier men would stay single. Bottom tier single men want marriage but can't get it, whereas top tier single men are highly sought after by women historically.
Do you have any historical data to show that the single men who died younger were homosexuals, or is this just conjecture? Are there any studies in the social sciences that support your theory? If so, please let me know the authors, year, title, and if you can, a link to the study. That looks interesting.
Don't be such a dipshit. Of course there are no "scientific" studies because there is no way to objectively categorize men as low versus high tier.
Me? You are the one making the assertions. And social scientists could figure out some way to categorize men as high or low tier if they belived in your theory and wanted to test it.

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jamesbond
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Re: Why Men Still Defend Marriage

Post by jamesbond » October 21st, 2018, 6:05 am

Some men defend marriage by saying, "Just Marry a Traditional Woman." Well, that may not work either.

"When I think about the idea of getting involved with an American woman, I don't know if I should laugh .............. or vomit!"

"Trying to meet women in America is like trying to decipher Egyptian hieroglyphics."

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