Why I don't like being a sugar daddy to Filipinas

[Winston]

One of my expat friends, like Ladislav, enjoys being a sugar daddy to Filipinas and paying for their every expense and desire in life. He keeps assuming that the reason I don't like to do that, is because I don't have enough money to do so. No matter how many times I explain it to him, he keeps returning to that fallacy and false assumption. I think it might be because we all make the mistake of assuming that other people think the same way we do. So I sent him this letter. Hopefully it will get the point across about my position. This isn't rocket science, so why do sugar daddy types have a hard time understanding it?

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Let me clarify something clearly so there's no misunderstanding. Even if I had your money, it would NOT change my attitude about being a sugar daddy to girls. I simply do NOT enjoy it. I do enjoy buying gifts for girls and treating them, but I don't like having to pay for every little thing in their life, including all their bills and expenses, and giving them an "allowance" while I'm away. I don't enjoy that at all. That's the difference between us. It is NOT about how much money I have. I do NOT enjoy it. Do you understand?

Most guys I know do not enjoy being a sugar daddy either. On my forum, only Ladislav enjoys being a sugar daddy. The rest don't.

It appears that a key fallacy in your assumption is that you assume that every guy who has a lot of money to spare, like you, will be glad to be a sugar daddy to a girl and give endlessly. Not so. Many guys with lots of money don't and are tightwadish. Most Chinese men I know who are wealthy are also very tightwadish. They will spend a lot when the situation calls for it. But they will not waste money. And they would NEVER date an uneducated girl from a poor family or lower class. No Chinese guy likes that. Even middle class Filipino guys don't date poor girls. It's a big shame to.

Do you understand? Not all guys love to give as much as you do. So it's a false assumption that every guy who has the money will splurge it and gladly enjoy being a sugar daddy to a poor girl. Think about it and you will see how that is an error.

I've explained this numerous times in the past, but you keep returning to this assumption. I don't understand why. Maybe you can't comprehend me, so you can only interpret my preference as "not having enough money". But come on now, this isn't rocket science.

We appear to be VERY different people after all, perhaps more than I thought.

You gotta understand that a common human fallacy is that we assume that others think the same way we do. It's a fallacy everyone makes, including me. So be aware of that. Even a chess computer assumes that a human player will make the same logical moves and calculations that it does. lol

Furthermore, I prefer to be generous to girls that do not make me feel obligated to be generous, which is a turn off. I also prefer girls who have shame. When Filipinas don't, it disgusts me. Also, if a girl is higher quality (in my book), I feel like spending more on her, because I feel she is worth it. If I dated a Japanese girl with education and smooth skin, for example, I would gladly spend a lot more on her than I would on a poor Filipina. That's simply my logic system.

I wouldn't mind being a sugar daddy to a Filipina or Thai for short term, if I'm having sex with her. But that's only for short term fun. I would not want to be a sugar daddy in a long term relationship.

Plus, I prefer a girl who can give me intelligent conversation. A black guy on my forum (Phoenix Sosa) also said that he prefers German women because they give him intelligent conversation, whereas when he Skyped with Filipinas, he was disappointed and said that they were "not on his level". I feel the same way. So I can't understand why you like dating girls that are not on your level. I need more than just sex and an easy going girl. Hope you take that into account.

Finally, here in Taiwan, no guy has to pay all the expenses of his girlfriend. If she gets sick, her family takes care of it and her health insurance does too. He doesn't have to pay for every little thing in her life. SO WHY SHOULD I?!?!?!?!?! See what I mean? That's simply NOT normal and doesn't feel right and is degrading too. Can you try to understand that?

Can you try to grasp what I'm saying? Please don't filter out the points above with cognitive dissonance and then return to the assumption that "It's because he doesn't have enough money." I am telling you the LITERAL truth here. There is no symbolism, metaphor or excuse here. I don't speak in metaphors. This is the LITERAL TECHNICAL truth of my position. Hope that's clear.

Thanks,
Winston

[Taco]

When I was younger, I used to think that sexy, highly educated, high social status women made better girlfriends and wives and were worth the expense, I was wrong. Quite the opposite, Shanghai and Hong Kong like most big cities are full of these bitches and they'll rob you every chance they get. Nowadays, I look at a potential girlfriend in terms of compatibility instead of social status and I'm a lot happier now.

If your looking for stimulating conversation its best to hang with your hommies as most women are not genetically programmed to enjoy intellectual hobbies with the same intensity as men. However, in most successful relationships the man and woman will have one activity(other than sex) that they do together on a regular basis which they both enjoy.

[davewe]

One of my expat friends, like Ladislav, enjoys being a sugar daddy to Filipinas and paying for their every expense and desire in life. He keeps assuming that the reason I don't like to do that, is because I don't have enough money to do so. No matter how many times I explain it to him, he keeps returning to that fallacy and false assumption. I think it might be because we all make the mistake of assuming that other people think the same way we do. So I sent him this letter. Hopefully it will get the point across about my position. This isn't rocket science, so why do sugar daddy types have a hard time understanding it?

I've heard several people on this board throw around the term sugar daddy, especially in regards to ladislav and I have to laugh at how delusional they are. Women in the West and some men use the term as a shaming technique, as in "He only gets hot girls cause he's a sugar daddy." Hell, even ladislav uses the term toward himself sometimes but I have a feeling his notion of what it is is a bit different.

Now before I dig into this I have to reiterate law number one (that some of you humorously reject): Women don't come free! Now before somebody responds with, "I've been banging my current girl for three weeks and haven't paid a dime," I'm not talking about that kind of relationship. I'm talking about a marriage or a long term committed relationship. Invariably such a relationship costs money, time and effort. We all know this. In fact it's one of the cornerstones of HA; that marriage in the West is expensive and divorce even more expensive. We look to other countries and cultures not because marriage/relationships are free there, but less costly and hopefully the women are of higher quality.

Now why would a wealthy man in the West become a sugar daddy? If a man is 50-ish (like ladislav) wealthy and interested in marriage, he can get a hot girl. If you're a CEO, rich doctor, investment banker, etc. the girls are there and lined up. So when would such a man be interested in a sugar daddy arrangement. He'd be interested under several circumstances:

a. He does not want to marry
b. He already is married

In such circumstances some women will trade the prospects of marriage for a good temporary lifestyle and cash rewards. For some men, maintaining their freedom (staying single) or having a hot girl on the side without an expensive divorce may well be worth the cost of upkeep. For those sort of people sugar daddying is a win-win situation.

But what about some guy in the Philippines. Now that I have been to PI a couple times, met and chatted with hundreds of girls and conversed with dozens of middle aged Western guys who live there or met their wives their I can categorically state the following: if you are a halfway viable middle aged guy interested in marriage or a committed relationship to a Filipina, young and even hot Filipinas will line up around the block to meet you. Your only issue will be how to find a good one and find the one that's right for you. That too is a challenge but the subject for another time.

But, and here's the rub, what if you are a 50-ish viable guy and don't want to get married or have a live-in or committed relationship. And what if you still want young hotties in your life. What do you do? While I am uncomfortable speaking for ladislav, he has been clear often that:

a. He does not want marriage or traditional commitment
b. He likes young (very young - lol) hot Filipinas

So for guys like him, helping a girl out with an allowance or college tuition is a reasonable means to have a no strings attached (or fewer strings attached) sort of relationship. If such a guy ever changes his mind and decides he wants permanency, the girls will be knocking each other over to get to him.

In such a context sugar daddying is not a shameful thing. It's not something you have to do because no attractive girl would be interested otherwise. It's what a guy may choose to do when he is not interested in the marriage alternative. Successful men know this, as do attractive women.

Winston, I hate to say this, cause basically I like you and respect what you have done here. But here's the reality. You are bordering on middle age. Since you are not anxious to marry or settle down, pretty soon your alternatives will become more limited. Maybe they already are. But you know what? It's not all that bad. Show a girl a good time. Spend a few dollars. Help her once in a while. Ultimately it's a lot cheaper than marriage. It's probably not much more expensive than bar girls. And maybe if you do that, you will surprise yourself and find that one right girl for you.

[Repatriate]

Sponsorship is a sucker's bet and something I tend to agree with but it's basically a short term marriage for guys with limited prospects. I can understand on some level why individuals like Ladislav get satisfaction in doing this. I guess you get to roleplay the "husband" and the girlfriend as the young "wife" while you raise her. Then when both of you get bored with this arrangement you can easily just move on. It's an empty investment though because it's basically still play acting in a long term sponsorship/p4p arrangement. I don't see how long term illusions like this are healthy especially when it's essentially buying emotional companionship.

It's still better to put in the effort to get a regular gf who you can connect with on some emotional level. If you really want to score super hot women that you feel are beyond your normal level then just do p4p instead of investing a lot of time and effort into it.

[ph_visitor]

I've heard several people on this board throw around the term sugar daddy, especially in regards to ladislav and I have to laugh at how delusional they are. Women in the West and some men use the term as a shaming technique, as in "He only gets hot girls cause he's a sugar daddy." Hell, even ladislav uses the term toward himself sometimes but I have a feeling his notion of what it is is a bit different.

Now before I dig into this I have to reiterate law number one (that some of you humorously reject): Women don't come free! Now before somebody responds with, "I've been banging my current girl for three weeks and haven't paid a dime," I'm not talking about that kind of relationship. I'm talking about a marriage or a long term committed relationship. Invariably such a relationship costs money, time and effort.

Only if you allow it to.

I f***ed 105+ women until age slowed down my success and I spent very very little money on any of them, until the later stages when women had become gold digging ruthless wallet emptiers. This included long term relationships and fiances and wives.

Then and ONLY THEN did the cost become high. Until then, cheap and easy sex based upon mutual compatibility and my personality.

Now, 15 years later it's all about the wallet.

And NO it wasn't like this when I was under 40, in the 70's, 80's and early 90's.

It is transparently clear when a girl here, 16 or 17 waitress, proposes to me that I be here 'second father'. It's clear in Los Angeles when fat ugly war pigs demand money spent.

The look in her eyes of her sizing me up for economic worth is crystal clear.
If you cannot see this then you are blind.

One day you won't be young. One day you may not have money, either.
I suggest you save it now and not spend it.
You cannot always earn more money.

[davewe]

Only if you allow it to.

I f***ed 105+ women until age slowed down my success and I spent very very little money on any of them, until the later stages when women had become gold digging ruthless wallet emptiers. This included long term relationships and fiances and wives.

Then and ONLY THEN did the cost become high. Until then, cheap and easy sex based upon mutual compatibility and my personality.

Now, 15 years later it's all about the wallet.

And NO it wasn't like this when I was under 40, in the 70's, 80's and early 90's.

It is transparently clear when a girl here, 16 or 17 waitress, proposes to me that I be here 'second father'. It's clear in Los Angeles when fat ugly war pigs demand money spent.

The look in her eyes of her sizing me up for economic worth is crystal clear.
If you cannot see this then you are blind.

One day you won't be young. One day you may not have money, either.
I suggest you save it now and not spend it.
You cannot always earn more money.

Actually I don't think we're in disagreement or at least not total disagreement. Men and women have as many goals and methodologies of connecting as I can count. That's why blanket statements about what you should and should not do are so difficult to make and make stick. Guys come to a board like this and want to find so many different things including:

1. A place to find cheap and easy lays and lots of them.
2. A place to find cheap and plentiful p4p situations.
3. A place to find fun and sexy temporary or even not so temporary gfs.
4. A place to find a wife and bring her back to your home country.
5. A place to expat to with the hope that girls will be part of the equation.

The methodologies for these and others vary so widely. A guy looking for a great bar scene doesn't have much in common in terms of his methods as a guy looking for a loyal and sweet wife. This is why it's so difficult to make blanket statements about a country or city. The guy looking for p4p may not go to some small town in Mindinao but the guy looking for a sweet wife might.

Of course there's always exceptions and we guys have big egos and remember the girl who wanted us and had no ulterior motives (allegedly), but most human relationships are more complex. Maybe the girl didn't want money but wanted your time (which is more valuable the older you get) or your effort ("honey can you help with with this") or your DNA ("I have always wanted a white baby"). She wants something which does not necessarily make her a terrible person; it makes her human.

And if a man recognizes that he does not want marriage, does not want to lose his freedom, does not want to share his DNA, and does not want to give up too much of his time and energy - well, there are alternatives.

Western culture (particularly females) are so quick to judge and shame men. Let's not imitate them! If I don't criticize someone for traveling to Angeles and banging as many bar girls as he can handle, why should I criticize someone who spends some cash with a different methodology.

Of course all this being said, it's a matter of degree. Does a guy give his "gf" an allowance of 200-300/month or thousands. We all have our limits. Leykis says don't spend more than $40 on a date. As a teenager for me that would be a small fortune; today it's nothing. I rarely have an interest in buying a girl's company but I always have an interest in having her share my life. If that means I spend a few dollars - it's worth it to me.

There's a nice discussion currently in the Living in Cebu forum about "How much allowance to give your gf". Funny, but enlightening stuff. Guys who say they won't give anything, but then admit they spend tons on bar girls. To each his own. I still maintain there is always a cost; sometimes it's just hidden from view.

[davewe]

Sponsorship is a sucker's bet and something I tend to agree with but it's basically a short term marriage for guys with limited prospects. I can understand on some level why individuals like Ladislav get satisfaction in doing this. I guess you get to roleplay the "husband" and the girlfriend as the young "wife" while you raise her. Then when both of you get bored with this arrangement you can easily just move on. It's an empty investment though because it's basically still play acting in a long term sponsorship/p4p arrangement. I don't see how long term illusions like this are healthy especially when it's essentially buying emotional companionship.

Buying emotional companionship is it? So is having a gf. Unless you are very young the dynamic of gf/bf is the following in most cases. The girl is hoping the relationship progresses and you will get married, or move in together and probably includes having some babies. The guy is hoping to have as much pre-marital sex as possible and postponing the commitment decision as long as he can. The emotional connection is at least partially based on the hope for the future. Maybe the two are in love but just as often they pretend they're in love to get what they desire. It's a barter (what they used to use before money); we'll pretend like we're married so the guy can get the sex and the girl can feel emotionally (and maybe financially) secure and connected.

Nothing wrong with this but I don't find it any more emotionally honest than what others do involving more direct arrangements.

BTW, under the category of truth in advertising, I am not now nor have I ever been a sugar daddy, though I have nothing against spending money in a relationship when and if it's to do something I want to do. I just find it silly and hypocritical to attack a decision that clearly works for some people.

[Winston]

davewe,
"Sugar daddy" is just an arbitrary term. You can call it whatever you like. Perhaps "Santa" or "Sponsor" too. It doesn't matter. You get the point.

Like I said, I don't mind sugar daddy relationships for short term. But not long term. It's also about the girl's attitude. I don't like when they shamelessly expect you to pay for every little thing, for their friends and family too. That's inconsiderate, shameless and totally UNEQUAL.

No one here in Taiwan does that. It's not normal.

My friends who went to China said that the girls there wanted to treat them! Wow.

So it is not true that I either have a sugar daddy relationship or nothing. That's ridiculous. I'm happy with a hot looking 32 year old girlfriend too. There are many such hot 30+ year old women in China, who are intelligent and capable.

But the situation with Filipinas is that the middle class girls won't talk to you. Only the poorest girls will. And those poorest girls will act like they can't even buy a cheeseburger around you, unless you pay for it, as though they were totally helpless.

99 percent of Filipinas I met can't even buy food at McDonald's, so how the hell does McDonald's stay in business there? I've been asking this question for years, but no one can give an explanation that adds up. And Filipinos consider this a rude question that they can't answer because they don't like to think or answer "why" questions. See how stupid and retarded that is?!

[Winston]

Taco,
You are right that women are not generally programmed for intellectual conversations. But you are missing the point.

I don't mind if a girl I date is less educated, less intelligent or poorer than me. But with Filipinas, the difference and mismatch is just TOO EXTREME! Extremities are never good in any form. Ancient Chinese and Greek wisdom say that extremes are never good.

The poor girls in China are way smarter than Filipinas and can at least hold an intelligent conversation. If you ask them a "why" question they will try to answer it as sincerely as possible. But Filipinas hate "why" questions as it forces them to think. That's just too extreme. Filipinas belong to a gene pool that is at the low end of the IQ spectrum, whereas Chinese nations are in the top 5 highest IQ nations of the world. So, this is an example of the lowest end of the spectrum vs. the highest. It's too extreme. The lesson here is, you can date a poor girl who can also hold an intelligent sincere conversation. Same with poor girls in Eastern Europe - they can hold intelligent conversations too. But with most poor Filipinas, there's just nothing to talk about. Again, it's TOO EXTREME.

Picture this: A Western male who can travel and pay his expenses and that of others, with a Filipina with 0.00 cash (or so she claims) who cannot even buy a meal at McDonald's without a foreigner paying for it. That's just ridiculous and too extreme of a mismatch, don't you think? Why so extreme? Why not date girls who are poor, but not completely cashless? Why be stuck with girls who can't pay for anything and claim to have 0.00 cash? That's stupid and degrading. It's NOT normal.

I can't understand why some expats, like Ladislav and my other friend, enjoy such extremities. Our dating choices are not limited to 1) cashless Filipinas or 2) nothing. Come on now.

I hope that makes my position clear. Does that make sense?

[ph_visitor]

Buying emotional companionship is it? So is having a gf. Unless you are very young the dynamic of gf/bf is the following in most cases. The girl is hoping the relationship progresses and you will get married, or move in together and probably includes having some babies. The guy is hoping to have as much pre-marital sex as possible and postponing the commitment decision as long as he can. The emotional connection is at least partially based on the hope for the future. Maybe the two are in love but just as often they pretend they're in love to get what they desire. It's a barter (what they used to use before money); we'll pretend like we're married so the guy can get the sex and the girl can feel emotionally (and maybe financially) secure and connected.

Nothing wrong with this but I don't find it any more emotionally honest than what others do involving more direct arrangements.

The world is f***ed up, because it did not used to be like this. In the waning days of The Sexual Revolution (1977-1988) women and men, girls and boys, were just trying to figure out what they wanted out of the other sex, and would hook up, live together, and date.

Sure there were gold-diggers then but why bother when most college educated women wanted to f**k and have fun? Everyone wanted to experiment, and sex felt good. Why torture men over it or make them pay?

Now...it's just a nightmare.

Just leave the USA. It's beyond unhealthy.

[ph_visitor]

I can't understand why some expats, like Ladislav and my other friend, enjoy such extremities. Our dating choices are not limited to 1) cashless Filipinas or 2) nothing. Come on now.

I hope that makes my position clear. Does that make sense?

You do not understand that human beings have varied and different opinions and ways to live life, that often are widely divergent?

How can you not understand that everyone is not the same?

This is basic stuff. Western children learn this differentiation from others well before age 5.

You are not Ladislav. Ladislav is not you.

This is something your id and subconscious should have learned when you were a young child.

[ladislav]

You do not understand that human beings have varied and different opinions and ways to live life, that often are widely divergent?

How can you not understand that everyone is not the same?

This is basic stuff. Western children learn this differentiation from others well before age 5.

You are not Ladislav. Ladislav is not you.

This is something your id and subconscious should have learned when you were a young child.

That is right, it is basically a case of whatever jerks your dodo so to speak. The examples that Winston gave about the Taiwanese businessmen are again the case of whatever jerks THEIR dodo.
Whatever arrangement makes one happy as an individual and makes their partner happy and is not illegal, more power to them. No two people are the same and no two preferences are the same. So what? Let people be happy any way they want to be.

[Repatriate]

Buying emotional companionship is it? So is having a gf. Unless you are very young the dynamic of gf/bf is the following in most cases. The girl is hoping the relationship progresses and you will get married, or move in together and probably includes having some babies. The guy is hoping to have as much pre-marital sex as possible and postponing the commitment decision as long as he can. The emotional connection is at least partially based on the hope for the future.

Every deeper relationship whether it be friendship or romance is predicated on some subconscious level of having a sense of permanence attached to it. This is still not the same as a straight monetary trade off that has "pretend" feelings to it. Sponsorships are based on roleplaying. You're paying to have someone act a certain way so you can fulfill a certain fantasy. That's all it is. All human relationships aren't broken down into strictly parasitic or symbiotic material gains.

BTW, under the category of truth in advertising, I am not now nor have I ever been a sugar daddy, though I have nothing against spending money in a relationship when and if it's to do something I want to do. I just find it silly and hypocritical to attack a decision that clearly works for some people.

It's a form of p4p. I'm not necessarily attacking it because it does work for some people but it's definitely putting money into an "experience" much like any other p4p activity.

[Pinay Teacher]

I have read countless statements on this site how filipinas are maleducated, cannot communicate well in english, and are basically stupid. But I beg to differ, these women you were talking about have you thought what are their educ'l backgrounds? On which part of the country did they grow up? What living class are they a part of? Poor, middle class or above average?

How many of you men here have actually dated a filipina who's not a prostitute, a whore or a bar girl? How could you generalize that all filipinas are one and the same just bec you encountered women who asks for money or support or even an interacial kid.

Take time to think over if any of you here have dated a filipina whose in the working class e.g. Those working in offices and who are college degree holders. Same women who are empowered that they don't need to stoop so slow as to work as prostitutes (I have nothing against these kind of women) it is just that these same persons whom most 'white' men encounter cement the image that filipinas are good for nothing bitches who cannot hold their end of conversation.

Moreover, may I suggest that if you really want to find a decent filipina, don't look for them in bars. And besides, educated filipina; they will think twice before dating a foreigner.

[Banano]

How many of you men here have actually dated a filipina who's not a prostitute, a whore or a bar girl?

Short answer, Not many.

Thats the problem Winston addressed in his postings that foreigners only attract the scum of the earth , sad but true.
I guess when you are that poor that you cant afford burger then its unreasonable to expect this chicks to be inteligent, think abt this for a moment, she is so poor that the only thing she can think of is food and to survive to see another day.