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Why Taiwan SUCKS in all areas except food/safety

Vent your rants and raves here about whatever makes you mad, angry or frustrated.

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Winston
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Re: Why Taiwan SUCKS in all areas except food/safety

Post by Winston » November 19th, 2017, 10:03 pm

onethousandknives,
How exactly does Taiwan let you be yourself? Can you be specific? You aren't allowed to flirt with girls or laugh loud or tell jokes or have fun. The people look super serious and uptight. How does that make you feel free exactly? Can you be specific? Or are you an AI programmed to counter every truthful opinion online? lol

Of course Taiwan is clean and safe. Like Singapore, but it's totally soulless. No social connection. No one cares about you. No one likes you for you. It feels like high school. If you're alone you feel like a LOSER. No one talks to you. Everyone ignores you. Just like the US. Just like high school. Very exclusive. People don't talk to strangers unless they are elderly. Not young women. No way jose. Everyone in Taiwan admits this. So how can you like that? Are you crazy???????

Did you try chatting up girls? Notice the cold distant vibe? It feels very negative. You can feel their FEAR and WEAKNESS. It feels very INAPPROPRIATE and awkward and taboo. Only polite small talk is allowed. No asking her out. Etc. Just like Seattle, WA. Same vibe but worse because they are simple minded like animals and machines, and upside down. Confidence and openness and assertiveness are taboo and abnormal there. Everything is upside down there. So how were you able to be yourself?

And the girls are not approachable as you noticed, not at all. Unless you are asking directions of course but they don't like talking to strangers. That's very obvious there. So how did you enjoy feeling so lonely and bored and aienated? Especially since it's impossible to connect with people there? They are on a different wavelength, one that's upside down. How does that make you feel good? It definitely feels very negative, like you aren't supposed to talk to anyone you don't know. How is that any different than the US?

Why do you think you never see foreigners hanging out with local Taiwanese? You only see foreigners with other foreigners in Taiwan. What does that tell you?

And if Taiwan is "friendly" then how come no one wants to be your friend? No one seems to be able to answer that.

Did you ask any girls out and get politely refused? Did it happen 100 percent of the time? If so, how is that happier abroad? What's there to be happier about?
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Re: Why Taiwan SUCKS in all areas except food/safety

Post by onethousandknives » November 20th, 2017, 9:08 am

I dunno, hopefully I can go back for a longer impression of things. Dating I didn't really try, as I didn't want to cheat on my girlfriend in Vietnam (which is kinda turning out to be a disaster, but not for scamming/etc, just incompatible :/ ) I did have one girl in a 3 day span try to chat me up while I was sitting alone eating mochi, without me trying first. I obviously don't expect anywhere in the world to just instantly make deep and long lasting friends, especially when I'm there for 3-4 days at a time. As far as me being an evil AI out to hurt Winston Wu and defend Taiwan, I'm not saying your experience about Taiwan is necessarily wrong. It is your experience.

I think for myself, I'm actually a relatively introverted and quiet kind of person, but at the same time somewhat outgoing and quite open. Taiwan I think fits me well, as being introverted there doesn't seem to be frowned upon as severely as USA, and indeed quietness and shyness is actually more attractive there and more liked by people than being brash and rude and a jackass like in USA is attractive. And in general, it fits my hobbies and likes well. I like anime and Japanese stuff a lot. So does almost everyone else my age (mid 20s) in Taiwan. I'm also high functioning autistic, and honestly I sort of notice a kind of autistic streak in Taiwanese people. My theory about it is a lot of the intellectuals from Mainland China went to Taiwan when Mao was killing them all.

I think I wrote about it before here in one of your TW threads, but I had an airbnb roommate from the Dominican Republic who was leaving Taiwan. His favorite Asian country he visited was Vietnam, as he liked the chaos, the noise, the outgoingness of the people, etc. Also really loved the Philippines but said it was pretty unsafe for him, he got robbed, got in motorcycle crashes there, etc. He thought Taiwan was boring and hated all the cutesy Hello Kitty anime shit everywhere (which I love and makes me feel comfy and safe.) He thought Taiwanese people were basically super socially awkward/almost autistic and hard to interact with. But he was a very naturally extroverted kind of person, from Latin America, which is a more extroverted and loud culture. Later did go to Mainland China for a while and said he liked it a lot better than Taiwan, too.

So with being myself, I do wonder about this at times. If being in a more extroverted culture would make me "get out of my shell" or whatever. But in USA, and learning about myself overseas in Vietnam, all attempts at forcing that kind of extroverted loud culture on me of being around tons of people in large groups all the time is just really draining on me. Maybe it's upbringing and my environment growing up that molded me to be more introverted, I don't know. But I do know for the person I am right now Taiwan's more introverted quiet kind of culture felt a lot better and put me at a lot more ease. Maybe I won't be that kind of person forever, I don't know.

I guess lastly too, for my comfortableness, I don't feel Taiwan feels all too aggressive compared to USA. I feel like everything in USA has this "I'm gonna kick your ass!" kind of vibe, of course from government, going down to t-shirts, truck decals, music (we'll put a boot in your ass, it's the American way!) and all guys walking around with a fake alpha posturing and a scowl on their face. I liked that putting up a front of alpha aggressive whatever wasn't needed in Taiwan. Going with the aggressiveness, there's also the very real issues of personal safety. Tonight here in USA, I got to witness someone try to murder a neighbor's family member with their car and back over him to try to finish the job (likely as part of a gang initiation.) I know people personally that have had friends and family murdered. Personal safety is a real issue in USA, and it's much less so in Taiwan.

I mean, I could try and analyze your experiences in Taiwan and say this or that, and I have in the past (I think...) but hey, if a place isn't suitable for you, it's not. You obviously gave it a try lasting years. And sometimes, no matter what positive thinking or attitude or whatever you try to muster up, a place and you isn't that suitable. I'm just saying, if you liked TW in the 80s, you might like Vietnam now, as two people I know describe it as being like TW in the 80s. As far as debate, my post isn't meant to be like "Ah Winston sucks, let's defeat him!" obviously not. You and your site were a big influence to go abroad and see for me. It's just meant to give a counter experience, and then whoever reads this years from now deciding on going to or living in Taiwan will take your experience and mine into account and make a decision for themselves.

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Re: Why Taiwan SUCKS in all areas except food/safety

Post by Winston » November 20th, 2017, 2:59 pm

Well i certainly agree that taiwanese are autistic and seem to have aspies. They have no social skills or confidence, as you observed too. So we agree on that. But this is with the young adult population of course. Older people there are more down to earth. Did you notice that?

But I would not call taiwan introverted. An introvert has an inner life and is intellectual. Taiwanese are nothing of the sort. At least not my relatives and not in southern taiwan. If you were in taipei you may find more educated people because its more cosmopolitan. But thats the same education that a silicon valley asian american drone has, purely conformist and doesn't think, only memorizes.

Taiwanese are also very conformist and follow trends. Thats something extroverts do, not introverts. So in that sense they cannot be introverted either.

Also introverts are not superficial. They dont like talking about the weather and stuff. They like deeper subjects that are more meaningful. So again the criteria of introverts doesnt seem to apply to them.

In addition, taiwanese do everything in groups, not alone. They definitely dont go out alone unless they are going to work. They are all about cliques and groups. Again thats an extrovert trait, not introvert.

If you watch videos about introverts vs extroverts on YouTube, you'll see what i mean about the above criteria.

So you see, in four major characteristics of introverts, taiwanese do not fit. Only in the shyness department maybe. But introverts arent shy, they just dont like BS.

Also if you drive in Taiwan you will not see that this politeness you see in person at all. Taiwanese drivers drive like assholes. Worse than the US. They have no consideration for others while driving. Especially the blue collar workers who are driving. They are particularly aggressive and honk at you for no reason, even if youre at a red light or waiting for traffic to clear before making a left turn, as if they expect you to crash into the cars or something. Thats f***ed up and nonsensical.

You dont notice the uptight negative vibe on womens faces amd body language that connotate that they are super judgmental, narrow minded and superficial, all of which they are proud to admit to? Zboy1 found that to be a negative vibe too.

Btw can you show your anti taiwan friend this thread and ask him what he think?

Taiwan is upside down in many ways.

1. Confidence and assertiveness are not seen as good traits but makes you stand out as abnormal. It attracts negative attention and only makes girls gossip bad about you behind your back. Its not the positive thing that it is in America. In Taiwan you are supposed to be weak, fearful, repressed, meek. Try acting confident in Taiwan and you'll see what I mean. It feels awkward, like trying to walk upstream in a river.

2. Taiwanese women are proud to admit they are closed minded and "not open minded", those are their exact words. Being open minded is a bad thing in Taiwanese mentality. But in western culture it is a good trait. Hence upside down again.

3. Being unique or freethinking is also not a good trait in Taiwan. You are supposed to conform to the crowd and be like everyone else. You get no points for being unique or original. A freethinker gets no points either, even if he accomplishes unique stuff that is impressive. Taiwanese don't like novelty, they like familiarity.

4. Being honest and straightforward is not a good thing in Taiwan either. Taiwanese prefer to be indirect like Japanese. And they expect all Asians to be the same. That's why they dislike mainland Chinese. Truth has no value in Taiwan. Only social harmony does. Social harmony is more important to them than being truthful or honest. This means they are big on political correctness, not truth. So Taiwan is definitely no place for a freethinker. Also being outspoken in Taiwan is not a good thing either. Again, social harmony is what matters, not bravely expressing yourself. So such courage gets no points in Taiwan.

5. Talking to strangers and being open to them is also considered weird and abnormal. Young people don't do that of course, especially young women. It shows confidence to talk to strangers of course but again confidence has no value in Taiwan. Its not cool.

6. Being courageous and brave is not encouraged in Taiwan either. They are trained to be fearful, weak and repressed. They were not brought up to fight for their beliefs or to stand up for what's right. Instead they are taught to fear their enemies and yield/submit to them, in order to be safe. Again this is upside down. Even Japan, a traditionally warrior culture, encourages bravery and a fighting spirit to defeat your enemies.

So again, how can you like a culture that's so upside down? Makes no sense. Right? Also how can you stand the cliquishness in Taiwan? Its just like America.

On a side note, some trivial ways that taiwanese are upside down or reversed are:

- They drink soup after meals whereas westerners drink soup before meals as an appetizer.
- They take showers at night not in the morning like westerners do.
- They say their last name first before first name, signifying the importance of family, group and tribe over individuality, whereas westerners say their first name first to signify their individuality. Thats why chinese names and characters put the last name or surname first.
- Even the number you dial for emergencies is backward. In the US you dial 911, but in Taiwan you dial 119.

Btw I never said a loud extroverted culture is better. Somewhere in between is best. Not on either extreme.

Are you White or Asian? You enjoy being ignored and not noticed? Then why not stay in the US? On the west coast USA everyone ignores you too. You can be totally anonymous and be a hermit too. Why leave the US then?
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Re: Why Taiwan SUCKS in all areas except food/safety

Post by onethousandknives » November 20th, 2017, 9:45 pm

Because personal safety sucks in US, food sucks, the water has fluoride, everything's crazily expensive, and the general vibe of USA sucks, as I said before. For Taiwanese driving, I do admit they drive bad, but in Vietnam they drive a lot worse, a lot lot worse. Taiwanese at least usually stop for pedestrians in the road, Vietnam driving is more or less everyone playing chicken with each other. Vietnamese drive much moreso like they are the only people on the road than in Taiwan. Also for noise, the Taiwanese will beep once or twice to let people know they're there, but in Vietnam people just beep like 10 times for no reason, even if it's like 2AM and nobody else is on the road, they just like to make noise. I do think driving overall in Taiwan is worse than USA, but in USA I do see lots of crazy shit in the cities here, too, like cars passing on the sidewalk. As I'll say below, if you compare a 300K house in a suburb life to city living in Taipei, maybe there's complaints, but if you compare city life in USA to city life in TW, TW comes out way ahead.

For the people and social vibe, obviously people treat you differently based on how you look, etc. I do think I likely was treated better as a mid 20s good looking white guy compared to just another Asian guy in his 50s. I did have a lot of people actually try to talk to me, for talking to strangers. For example, randomly I was eating some breakfast rice roll on a bench, and a guy from inside the shop I bought it from came out to talk to me, told me to visit a specific waterfall, wrote the bus stop on it, and left his card, too. I still think on the whole people were about as outgoing, but less paranoid than in USA. Where I live in USA, though, the specific state, is very very stuck up and has a horrible social environment, though, and in reading comments online about my state, it basically reads like HA does, actually, with everyone saying my state is full of closed off jackasses and ____ state (pick basically any, but usually the South or Florida) they live in now has a lot friendlier people. So compared to other places in USA, I kinda don't know. With girls in TW, I do agree they seem a bit emotionless with the empty Hello Kitty vibe, but I still prefer that to the "resting bitch face" of a very high amount of US women.

I've read the arguments that Taiwanese aren't really introverted, and maybe it's true, maybe not. But either way, for myself, I felt it worked out well. Maybe I'll travel more and like another place better, who knows. Of course I'm not thinking only in socialization, to be fair, I'm thinking in terms of safety, cleanliness, cost of living, etc, which I think Taiwan has a good balance of. If going abroad is only for socialization opportunities and women, and that's your only definition of "happier abroad" then that's your prerogative. But to me, I do have good friends in USA, and women don't seem to totally hate my guts here or anything. Just USA's high costs, economy based upon scams, and lack of safety and stability are getting to be real issues for me here.

If you lived in a 300K house in a good neighborhood in USA, then yeah, you'd think Taiwan looks shitty and moldy and the bathroom tile buildings look bad. But I'd much rather be in a "bad neighborhood" in Taipei than where I live in USA. And for comparable things in USA, some things are just different, in US where I live, there's collapsed porches and decks, houses not painted for 20+ years, junker cars with 5 different color body panels and taped up windows, parks with collapsed and rotting wooden bridges over lakes, all really common where I live, and it's not any worse than in TW (hell, most cars in TW looked nicer than where I live for condition...) it's just different things compared to moldy bathroom tile apartments. But at least TW is safe and my chances of being victim to violent crime are a lot lower there, I can get reasonably healthy food cheaply and on the go and don't need to cook every single thing from scratch to be healthy, etc. That and it being a big epicenter for a lot of my hobbies and interests, it's a decent place for me.

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Re: Why Taiwan SUCKS in all areas except food/safety

Post by longzing » November 24th, 2017, 10:19 am

for the dating scenes in some local areas, i'd think the northern part would be better than the southern part, of Taiwan, relatively speaking. For example, Taipei is better than kaohsiung, etc. Taiwanesees, in general, unlike some other countries, are not very romantic as one can also observe. But it's in general sense, which means, it does not apply to every individual per se, of course. And I think it's also related to the entire social environment of taiwan, which values efficiency over other factors. (for your reference only)

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Re: Why Taiwan SUCKS in all areas except food/safety

Post by Falcon » November 24th, 2017, 7:00 pm

On my last trip to Taiwan, I talked to a Filipina maid about what she thought about Taiwan.

Here's what she told me.
1. I was her first Taiwanese friend ever. Seriously. It seems like most Taiwanese don't want to, or can't, be close to Southeast Asians.
2. She agrees that Taiwanese are strict and almost robotic. She said that my dad and relatives looked so strict. It is easy to tell that the Filipina did not feel at ease in Taiwan at all.
3. She hates the way my aunt treated our Indonesian caregiver. I do too.
4. She doesn't want to go back to Taiwan again.

The Philippines is a big fun mess. Taiwan is a neat zombieland. Take your pick. :wink:

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Re: Why Taiwan SUCKS in all areas except food/safety

Post by zboy1 » November 30th, 2017, 4:23 pm

Taiwan is liked a lot more by White foreigners than overseas Taiwanese or other Asians.

I'm guessing the main reason is that Whites get treated way better than Chinese people in Taiwan. For some reason, Chinese people do not have the togetherness found in other Asian races like Koreans or Japanese people, or non Asian groups such as Jews. Hong Kong people hate mainlanders, Taiwanese hate mainlanders, ABC Chinese look down on FOBS, and so on and so on. Whereas Koreans stick together and take care of each other very well, as do Filipinos and Indians.

So, basically, Taiwan is popular among non-Asian foreigners, but not among ABC Taiwanese or Asians.

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Re: Why Taiwan SUCKS in all areas except food/safety

Post by Winston » December 12th, 2017, 4:43 am

Here is a list of topic threads about Taiwan in this forum. I'm sending it to people in the comments of my blog articles about Taiwan to invite them here.

search.php?keywords=Taiwan&terms=all&au ... mit=Search
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Re: Why Taiwan SUCKS in all areas except food/safety

Post by Winston » December 12th, 2017, 5:02 am

zboy1 wrote:
November 30th, 2017, 4:23 pm
Taiwan is liked a lot more by White foreigners than overseas Taiwanese or other Asians.

I'm guessing the main reason is that Whites get treated way better than Chinese people in Taiwan. For some reason, Chinese people do not have the togetherness found in other Asian races like Koreans or Japanese people, or non Asian groups such as Jews. Hong Kong people hate mainlanders, Taiwanese hate mainlanders, ABC Chinese look down on FOBS, and so on and so on. Whereas Koreans stick together and take care of each other very well, as do Filipinos and Indians.

So, basically, Taiwan is popular among non-Asian foreigners, but not among ABC Taiwanese or Asians.
That used to be true. But now I am getting plenty of comments from people in my blog who find Taiwan unfriendly and negative too. Some of them are white too, including this white girl:

http://blog.happierabroad.com/2013/01/1 ... 5838176794

Lydia
October 26, 2015 at 10:22 AM
This blog post seems to come from a very biased way of thinking, however i do agree with some points.
especially with the "it's a taboo to say people are unfriendly". every single taiwanese person i meet tells me how taiwanese people are the nicest people in asia (usually followed by "not as rude as mainland chinese" because people here seem to hate mainland china a lot) which, at least judging from my own experiences is by far not true. I had much better experiences in china or korea, and it was certainly a lot easier to meet people and make friends there than it was here in Taiwan.

Some other comments agreeing with me:

Kerry Wang
December 31, 2015 at 1:53 AM
I am Taiwanese and I agree with you lol

CHUN-TENG LIN
June 14, 2016 at 9:08 PM
I grew up in Taiwan and lived in Taiwan for more than 30 years. So, I think my comment to this article can be objective. This article is god damn right. I think the real situation in Taiwan may be worse. Taiwan is like a huge factory. It treats human being as product, so the most important thing is to standardize every human being. If you are not standardized well, you will be treated as a defected product. Eventually, for these defected product, either they leave Taiwan or take antidepressants whole live living in Taiwan. I am not exaggerating. The real situation is worse.

Chad Chen
October 6, 2016 at 6:43 PM
Taiwan does suck!!!and all of the above r true,100% true,shitty place everywhere

Unknown
December 4, 2017 at 5:48 AM
Where haven this post been all my life? It's like you spoke my mind or you're my soul mate, I honestly couldn't hate this place more,and I agree with 80% of the things you said in this post, thank you for letting me know I'm not the only freak and thank you for letting me know that I was right about this hell hole, I feel so less shitier about myself now

* This comment below is more deep. He talks about collectivism vs individual expression.

苗子謙
September 4, 2016 at 10:28 AM
First of all, thanks to the writer for expressing your thoughts here. Every time someone says something that criticizes a culture, people either 1. agree overall 2. disagree and fiercely defend 'their' perfect culture 3. attack the writer, make fun of him and call him names.

I think the problem is the idea of cultural relativism. This idea is mind control to make you accept that there is no absolute good or bad when it comes to culture. It says that anything and everything that exists in culture is acceptable, but nothing could be further from the truth. Culture is the diet for your mind. Objectively speaking, there ARE ideas and behaviors in a diet that contribute to the full development of critical thinking, morality, and human consciousness and there are ideas and behaviors which retard these things. Just like there are things you can put inside your body that nourish it or cause it cancer. In this context, the things that nourish the body are GOOD. The shit that poisons you is BAD. And no matter how many thousands or millions of people continue to consume it, it will always be BAD and those people will always be WRONG to consume it.

The underlying cultural diet of Taiwan is collectivism. It manifests itself throughout the fabric of Taiwan's national outfit like a strong dye. Collectivism does NOT contribute to individual critical thinking. It does NOT contribute to independent behavior. It does NOT contribute to an objective sense of justice, therefore the people can always be easily swayed to go in whatever direction the boss/the parents/the teacher/the political party/the advertisers wish. It DOES contribute to the phenomena the writer mentioned in the article. This doesn't mean that freethinkers don't exist, it just means they are not encouraged to express themselves in the society.

Lastly, I just wanna note that when a foreigner or local brings up anything negative about the culture to a Taiwanese person, the automatic, standardized, robotic response, word for word, is: "Ah, that's just our culture". This is what people here say all the time. This is an overt dismissal of the topic. It means that he doesn't really wanna examine the contents of his diet to see what could be thrown out and what should be kept. This is the real tragedy.

* This white guy married to a Taiwanese has some good observations too.

Eric Hadley-Ives
July 8, 2016 at 6:36 PM
I'm middle-aged, and have visited or lived in Taiwan off and on since 1990 when I was a young adult. I am married into a Taiwanese family, and have in-law nieces and nephews and cousins in the younger generation I've known since they were small children, as well as in-law siblings and close friends of both genders who are Taiwanese or Americans married to Taiwanese.

This blog is a striking and wonderful example of cultural differences and culture shock as experienced by an American in Taiwan. The Taiwanese score as one of the most collective societies in the world, while Americans score as the most individualistic in the world, so that difference is a frequent source of... difficulty for Americans in Taiwan. There is also a big spread between the "fun-loving" and "personal expression" dimensions of culture, where Americans are pretty high in world comparisons and Taiwanese are among the lowest; and the Taiwanese have one of the highest scores in delayed gratification or long-term planning compared to the rest of the world (American culture tends to be a bit below the world average). These cultural differences can be experienced just as the blogger describes.

As to the idea that middle-aged Taiwanese are more open and friendly compared to the young: I am not sure this is a matter of aging, and I suspect it may be a cohort thing. Taiwanese born in the 1960s and 1970s have had very different life experiences than those born in the 1980s and 1990s have had.

As to the lack of psychological depth or conversational ability in Taiwanese: Yes, this is a problem, and I think many Taiwanese social critics notice it in their culture and identify it as a substantial problem in the lives of Taiwanese. We Americans have our own serious problems that may be quite different, but just as horrible, as this "emptiness" of Taiwanese personal experience.

If you do want to meet people in Taiwan, I do think you ought to try the Taiwanese way and join up with some group or try to find some like-minded people. Hiking clubs? Soccer fans? People who love dancing or art? Maybe Tzu-Chi volunteers? Taiwanese are among the most collective-oriented people on the planet, and for Americans with our individualistic extremism, learning through experience more about what it's like in these "cliquish" groups can broaden our perspectives and expand our comfort zones.

Someone, perhaps this blogger, ought to write a sort of 21st century "Domestic Manners of the Taiwanese" (like Frances Trollope's wonderful comic/caustic book about her disastrous experiences as an Englishwoman in America of the 1820s). Translated into Mandarin, it could be a big success in the Taiwanese book market!
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Re: Why Taiwan SUCKS in all areas except food/safety

Post by onethousandknives » December 12th, 2017, 6:28 am

and the Taiwanese have one of the highest scores in delayed gratification or long-term planning compared to the rest of the world (American culture tends to be a bit below the world average).
I think maybe this is one of the reasons I liked Taiwan, it being the opposite of America in this important manner. I find it hard to be amongst people who seemingly only act with their impulses and can't think more than a day ahead like in America, it's very frustrating for me here, this gap in thinking patterns. I can agree Taiwanese don't openly show a lot of emotions when being in a subway, etc, and to me that's fine as I'm the type of person who also doesn't openly show a lot of emotion either, which in America makes people often not like me, but in Taiwan it's normal.

One thing I liked with Taiwan, too, is Taiwanese actually do seem to have actual hobbies, and put a lot of effort and make a lot of friendships over them, like my first Taiwanese friend I made enough to make Facebook friends with likes scuba diving for example, and is very into it. Americans by comparison are just usually totally boring and it's "watchin' football and hangin' out." Another person I befriended is a talented trombone player, etc. While there may be dumb vapid Taiwanese who only care about buying Gucci at the Taipei 101 mall, I found the society overall more intelligent than USA by pretty big margins. It's no wonder Taiwanese who do emigrate to USA do have the highest incomes and education levels compared to any other Asian group.

This being said, Taiwan even if you do absolutely hate the social environment, I think it's still a nice place overall, and actually does basically in all metrics except income beat USA. http://www.ifitweremyhome.com/compare/US/TW basically everything is better.

For me with social environments, I think honesty and integrity is pretty important. And not that it's absolutely perfect in TW, but I really rank TW as a lot more honest society than USA. For example at Taoyun Airport and the Taipei Main Station, 7-11 costs the same there as it does in the rest of the city, or maybe like 5NT more per item or something. Pretty sure the exact same. Same with drink machines, etc. In USA there's just no shame in highway robbery and extortion prices of $5 per soda at the airport, etc. In Vietnam for a taxi, I took an official Vinasun taxi, driver got lost and I ended up about 1km from the hotel, but the driver still demanded the full estimated fare from us (only $3.50 for 5-10 minute ride...) despite not getting us there. Meanwhile in Taiwan my taxi driver's meter on a Taoyun Airport ride went to about 1150NT (usually it is about 1000NTD) and I handed him 1200 or 1500, and he just took the 1000 and handed me back my other bills. My roommate talked about how people would just leave their laptops out at the library and go out and do stuff and would expect to come back to them being there not stolen, which you can't do in USA. I think notably too, one personal thing I like about Taiwan is a lot of people are vegetarians and it's encouraged/at least not that frowned upon as everyone is not trying to be a fake badass toughguy like America, and they've banned eating cat and dog meat as well. Even if Taiwanese are cold, autistic, and stuffy and snobby or whatever, they do seem to be at least on the whole generally honest people with integrity, which I can't say about the majority of Americans.

momopi
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Re: Why Taiwan SUCKS in all areas except food/safety

Post by momopi » December 23rd, 2017, 3:44 am

Don't want to be stuck with "square" sycophants in TW? Learn the language (seriously).

The famous author 三毛 (San Mao, aka "Echo") lived passionately as a women, with a string of lovers and marriage to a younger Spanish man. Fluent in Chinese, German, Spanish and German (plus several other languages of lesser fluency), authored 20+ books and numerous short stories and articles about living abroad, her loves, and visiting some 59 countries before her death in Taiwan. She has female fans who admire her and dreams of living for love and passion. But if you can't read her books, it'd be difficult to meet the female fans and discuss SanMao's literary works.

Image
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zHF9DAFgczM
Her former residence in Taiwan: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVJXw7sKb40
She has a museum in Mainland China: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJeiEMR9Xcg
https://qz.com/963273/the-world-traveli ... name-echo/


眭澔平 (Sui Hao Ping) Taiwan journalist who was inspired by San Mao. He left his family behind and traveled to almost every country in the world (180+ countries/territories) over a 20+ year span. Authored numerous books including his travel learnings from perspective of Buddhist Heart Sutra, UFO/Alien life, Supernatural/Paranormal, History, etc.. Frequent contributor to Taiwan's TUFOS (Taiwan UFOlogy Society -- http://www.ufo.org.tw/ ). But again, if you can't read/write/speak the language, it's kinda hard to contribute to their forum/group.

Image
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVKiMrj0OOY

They host events/seminars from time to time: https://zh-tw.facebook.com/pg/taiwanufo ... e_internal

You could meet like minded people there but again, you need to speak the language to understand what they're talking about. Some have a few loose marbles:
https://www.facebook.com/%E9%9B%BB%E5%A ... 401598488/
https://www.facebook.com/%E8%85%A6%E6%8 ... 522772672/


====================

I describe Taiwanese as "shy extroverts". With some exceptions, most enjoy gatherings and outings with family and friends but not many strangers. If your sexual market value is very high then you can disregard as women will gravitate toward you. But if your SMV is average or mediocre and you're trying to date a "square", don't expect a point-and-click experience.

I suck at cold approach but still had some successes in Taiwan in the past decade (when I was actively dating) meeting girls at Starbucks in Shilin, at Taoyuan airport, on the plane, etc. I'll write about "V" who I meet on a flight from LAX to TPE. She's square, conservative, non-religious, flat, and very cute with killer legs. She sat next to me on the plane and no where to run from a chatty older guy (me) chatting up a younger girl (her). I blabbed about Taiwanese beef noodles which she liked and we discussed various beef noodle restaurants in Taipei. We exchanged MSN contact info and meet up later in Taipei for beef noodles and dim sum. She attended college in Taiwan and it was her first year studying abroad in LA.

When she returned to LA for her following semester I took her to Laguna Beach for a stroll. She was climbing some rocks I held out my hand and tried to hold hers, but she shook her head and refused. I just smiled and shrugged. She didn't have a car and she would ask to meet couple times a month for help on her homework and outing. In slang terms I was "instant noodle". When someone is hungry and there isn't any better food around they would eat the instant noodle, but if better food was avail they wouldn't miss the instant noodle. Well, as a foodie I had other plans and intend to be premium noodles with premium toppings.

Note that being instant noodle is actually better than being “undesirable fruit”. If a girl is hungry she will eat instant noodle if there’s nothing else. But if she doesn’t like bananas, just because there are no other fruit avail she is not going to eat the banana.

One issue we had was that she was ~15 years younger than me. I'm a pig and she's a tiger (1 cycle younger, 12+3). I didn't pressure her to date because she is the independent type who needs space (not clingy/needy). So I just helped her with her school papers then took her to nice places to eat and visit, or I'd cook at home for her. After a couple months I asked a lady friend who owned a Japanese bakery/cafe for a large favor. I took "V" to the bakery/cafe and treated her to their excellent cheesecake. I casually asked if she would like to learn how to make the cheesecake, she replied yes and I grabbed her hand and sent her to the kitchen, where the owner smiled and showed her.

Later, in the car with a box of cheesecake in her lap, she commented that she was very surprised. I replied that it took this much effort just to hold her hand. She laughed and blushed. I told her to share the cheesecake with her roommates and took her home. She became much more open and told me about her family and roommates. A week later she told me that her roommates asked to meet me and invited me over. It was the first time that I was invited into her apartment. I brought over a large pie sized fruit tart from Zovs bakery in Tustin (back then they used a purple yam like filling that Asians like) and chocolate dipped strawberries from edible arrangements.

When her semester ended and she was going on break, I asked if she wanted to take a short trip to Santa Barbara to visit wineries and Solvang (tourist trap). I sent her the winery information along with hotel information showing nice room with a king sized bed. She said yes. I took her to wineries for wine tasting and Saarloos & Sons in Los Olivos for wine pairing with mini cupcakes. That night we went back to the hotel, she came to bed in PJ's and didn't say anything or object to hugging. We snuggled and kissed but no sex that night. Next morning we were strolling around holding hands and she seemed happy.

Image

I'll condense the rest of the story to say that we dated on and off, when she was between housing/apartments she lived with me, and toward the end we discussed meeting her parents together when they were doing a family trip to Vancouver BC. However she called it off because she didn't feel that our relationship was at a point where we were seriously going to marry. After completing her study abroad she moved back to TW, and couple years after she sent me a picture of herself in Paris learning to be a pastry chef, with the message that she was living the dream I had given her. I'm fine with it, I don't have the issues that would make me bang my head against the wall over "why" and write lengthy rants. It's regrettable, I think we were actually pretty compatible but I paid too much heed to the age gap and didn't pursue her as seriously for marriage. Like fishing, sometimes the fish gets away.

From the time I meet her to the time that we held hands as a couple in Santa Barbara, it took about 5 months. If she was introduced to me by a friend or relative specifically for marriage I think it would have taken far less time (if successful). But this was a girl 15 years younger than me that I meet on the plane, my largest "age gap" relationship. If this counts as a "success" then I'd also point out numerous others that I meet or was introduced to, chatted online over weeks and months and just dropped off from lack of chemistry. If your opinion is that this is too beta/square/indirect/tool/bullsh*t or that you (YOU, not "some guys") lack the patience to invest in something that isn't guaranteed, then it's not for you.


P.S. For those who were born in year of the Pig, here's my experience from memory:

Pig + Sheep: Success (married)
Pig + Dog: Good
Pig + Tiger: Good
Pig + Rooster: Good
Pig + Monkey: Better off as friends
Pig + Horse: FAIL (terrible breakup)
Pig + Snake: FAIL
Pig + Ox: Better off as friends
Pig + Pig: FAIL

momopi
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Re: Why Taiwan SUCKS in all areas except food/safety

Post by momopi » December 24th, 2017, 7:55 am

Winston wrote:
November 20th, 2017, 2:59 pm
On a side note, some trivial ways that taiwanese are upside down or reversed are:
- They drink soup after meals whereas westerners drink soup before meals as an appetizer.
- They take showers at night not in the morning like westerners do.
- They say their last name first before first name, signifying the importance of family, group and tribe over individuality, whereas westerners say their first name first to signify their individuality. Thats why Chinese names and characters put the last name or surname first.
- Even the number you dial for emergencies is backward. In the US you dial 911, but in Taiwan you dial 119.
1. In modern Chinese fine dining/multi-course cuisine the savory soup is served first (or right after cold appetizer) and sweet dessert soup is served last. For western style dining soup should never be referred to as appetizer. You'd pair the appetizer with wine but usually not for soup and salad in western dining.

2. Taking showers at night or morning is a matter of preference. In US surveys show preference to take showers in morning vs night at ratio of 4:3 to 2:1. However the shower survey excludes baths and people usually take baths at night. If you to take showers in the morning, you should wash your PJ's, bedsheets, pillow case, duvet cover, etc. more frequently as you're going to bed "dirty".

3. Europeans do not all place family names last in their native language. Instead of "first name" and "last name" from English context use "given name" and "family name". In English language publications they automatically move family name last, for example the Hungarian President's name is written as "János Áder" in English publications, but in native Hungarian language it's written as "Áder János" with family name first. Some Europeans also write their family names in all capital letters and given names in all lower case. For example:
http://berathen.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... ume-15.jpg

4. The emergency number format for North America is generally 9XX vs Asia is 1XX, not specific to Taiwan. See below for reference:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/119_(emer ... ne_number)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_e ... ne_numbers


=======================

If you're looking for a better examples, I would suggest the difference in concept of "emptiness" between Eastern Buddhist & Taoist concepts vs Western concepts.

In Western concept emptiness is considered an undesirable condition that leads to depression, loneliness, and apathy. It compares to nihilism where life is lacking meaning, purpose, and value. For example, you might describe people as a "shell" in a negative context.


In Eastern concept, Taoism considers emptiness as a positive, desirable condition where your mind is empty of impulses and desires. Instead your mind is characterized by simplicity, quietude, patience, and restraint:

“The still mind of the sage is the mirror of heaven and earth, the glass of all things. Vacancy, stillness, placidity, tastelessness, quietude, silence, and non-action - this is the level of heaven and earth, and the perfection of the Tao and its characteristics.”

Similar concepts are found in Buddhism, Zen archery, Tai Chi, Taoist music, etc:
https://youtu.be/OA2EnemzBpk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nV2tAbplF0o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lCBc66Q-IJg

In music, the Korean Gayageum instrument's round body represents the heavens, the flat base board earth, the strings are movements of the year, and the sun/moon/star carved on bottom of the sound chamber as yin/yan or the universe. The sound is sometimes described as echoing the sound or melody of the universe:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFPg1y2L7ow

Striving for Non-attachment, cessation of thought, and Single-Minded Attention. These values and mindsets are also reflected in Japanese minimalist home decor and Marie Kondo's books on tidying up:
https://www.mercedes-benz.com/en/me/ins ... happiness/


Westerners sometimes describe this as delayed or deferred gratification, but that's using Protestant ethics to describe Tao or Zen which is quite different. "Inner Peace" might be a closer, but not exact description. The concepts of spirituality, fulfillment and emptiness differs. One seeks inner happiness through fulfillment of desires, and the other seeks absence of desire toward serenity. A Chihuahua with ADD in heat and an ascetic on the mountain look at each other and think the other is odd.

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