18 year old disillusioned in Taiwan after night out

[sinbadsailor]

Let me introduce myself:

My name is Sinbad and I am of Taiwanese descent. However, I was raised in America ever since 4th grade. In short, I was raised as an American. However, unlike most ABCs or migrants, I did not receive the stereotypical "Asian Parent" or Tiger mom treatment by my parents, a part because my father works and barely has time for me but a large part because my mother.

I found out recently that the reason that my mother left Taiwan was because of the "closed minded, insecure, and conformist" attitude that is so prevalent in Taiwan. When I was younger, I never quite understood why my mother would go on rants about the Taiwanese culture after a phone call with her parents or why she adamantly encouraged me to "think outside the box" until recently.

For the past 3 summers, I have regularly come back to Taiwan for vacation and also family gatherings. It is always so good to be back. Seeing my grandparents and eating vintage treats always bring a nostalgic tear in my eye. However, ever since the first summer, I always wanted to experience the social culture here. The first summer I tried everything to no avail. From calling up old friends to meeting through camps, I always had difficulty finding friends. People here, from my experience, are cliquey and conformist, as Winston Wu would put it. They would express disapproval when I acted or said something that was not "part of the norm".

I am not trying to brag, but I inherited the revolutionary mind of my mother, which is to doubt everything and develop higher level of perception and retrospection. People in America calls my confidence to express my innovative thoughts "contagious" while people here look down on it (yes, Even my DAD).

So freshly arrived from America 2 weeks ago, I was in the mood for some women. I went to Luxy last night and found it extremely hard to talk to women. They seem so self-centered and not open minded. I talk to about 10 women and had success with 2 of them. One group was for Japan and the other from Hong Kong. The girl from Japan was 23 and beautiful. She was with two other friends and I successfully disarmed the group and started flirting with my target. Needless the say, as a amateur, I ran out of things to say and decided to go for the number, which was rejected because she had a boyfriend.

The next group of girls were from Hong Kong and they really wanted the D. This girl, who was fairly good looking and feminine, was touching my knee, whispering really closely to my ears, and touching her hair all the time. This girl ended my kissing me while her gay friend pulled her away in a futile attempt to cockblock me. But I digress. The other women thought of themselves too much, when in reality, at the end of the night, when all that makeup and contacts come off, she will be nothing but ordinary or even worst, while I will still have my good looks and inner confidence.

I am not trying to change their cultures, but Winston is 95% right, almost all girls in Taiwan are very shallow, fake, and close-minded. They never want to aspire to something with substance and have extrinsic motivation rather than intrinsic passions.( Much like Janet, Yes Winston, I read that and agree with most.)

BUT I HAVE A PROBLEM:

I AM a hormone raging teenager who needs to get laid, and I don't really care very much about these girls personality. For them not to want to know me is their loss. If I want the hottest girls in Taiwan to satisfy my lusty mind, I might have to act like a "conformist" for a while, and once I get my D wet, I will go back to my normal self. They can either stay or go. It is their call.

[Winston]

Welcome Sinbadsailor.

I don't know what to say. You've chosen the worst place in Asia for picking up girls and making friends. Taiwan is way too repressed and conservative compared to the rest of Asia.

Even Falcon agrees after his research. He even told me that compared to other big cities in Asia, Taipei has the LEAST amount of nightclubs and nightlife to offer. And people don't usually go out together after work, like they do in mainland China. Taiwan is too much like the US. Young people are hard to connect with there. Only older people are open with strangers.

I don't know what to tell you. But our friend Rock here will try to cheer you up because he believes that Taiwan is a "wonderful place with wonderful people" and he sticks to that like a religion through thick and thin, as if he were married to Taiwan. lol

How do you look? Have you tried dating sites there? If all else fails, just get a pro for 3,000 NT. The taxi drivers will tell you where to go and take you. Or go to China or Thailand. People are far more open there and easier to connect with.

Comparison example: In Taiwan, women don't make eye contact when they walk. They either look down on the ground or straight ahead. Their eyes never make contact with yours. They don't look around. But in China they do, according to our members' trip reports. Even Falcon told me that they do. In China, women will make eye contact and return your gaze. To me, that's normal.

[ladislav]

Lesson # 1 that you must learn young

a) Don't look for water in the desert.
b) You can't get blood from a turnip.

You need to go to the Nile to get fresh water in abundance. You must go to a blood bank to get blood. Do you get my drift? You need to go to countries where women are in abundance and where they are friendly. This is the only thing that's worthwhile

People may start telling you that there are places in the desert and times where/when you can get some water. That there are oases -- but there are huge numbers of humans and animals fighting over those. People will attempt to teach you how to fight over the brackish water in those oasis and how to be a better quicker water-seeker.

People will attempt to tell you that you need to learn how to twist turnips a certain way and if you squeeze enough of them, you will get blood. They will also tell you that the reason you can't get blood from them is because you are not skillfull enough.

Get my drift! Go to the Nile! There is no use complaining about this or that quality of the desert and how turnips just don't give you blood.

[Rock]

Sinbadsailor

I'll be back in Taipei at the end of this month. If you really wanna meet and date local girls, I think I can help get you sorted out.

You are a good looking 18 year old ABC. Should be very doable, esp. if you can pass for early to mid 20s.

I'm not sure Luxy is best place for an ABC to go from scratch. Last time I went there, I saw lots foreign guys, several with hot local girls. But I got the feeling they had known each other and came together.

Anyway, why don't you come out with me to meet girls during the daytime. As I told Monkro, clubs are magnets for the worst qualities if you are in search of any depth. A lot of girls just go to those venues for showing-off and getting attention. Sure, hook-ups happen outta clubs. But I think you can do much better from alternative methods (at least from my perspective).

I'm pretty confident I can show you how to achieve dates by cold approaching gals in places like Ximending, certain bookstores, pubs, MRT, etc. I can even My tenant Monkro who is considerably less qualified than you managed to do ok in spite of his dark skin. And he didn't even allow me to help him directly. I'll know more if I meet you and see what you are like in person. But if you are what you claim, open minded, and willing to break-the-rules, I anticipate you will achieve very good to great results in short order.

BTW, I don't know what Falcon's research is based on nor have I seen it. But I never thought of Taipei as a place lacking in nightlife. Go out to Xinyi Vieshow area on any weeknight and you will see hundreds of young local people with a smattering of foreigners lining up to get into at least 5 different clubs in the immediate vicinity. It always amazes me they can go out like that on school nights. And Fridays and Saturdays are insane. If you hang out till after 4 or so, the sidewalks are full of people passed out on the sidewalks, puking, or just hanging out. Taipei is full of nightlife options. Besides Vieshow area, you've got all the Roxys and other clubs around Shida, Fushing N. Area, Hsimending, and many other areas. Besides mainstream clubs, you've got lounge bars, neighborhood pubs, saunas, massage joints, and lots of P4P opportunities around Linshen N. Rd. You've also got the Combat Zone up around Imperial Hotel area with quasi P4P options. There are also certain pubs which attract girls looking for foreign guys and sometimes ABCs can do ok in these venues too. In spite of what Falcon may claim, I would say Manila has a lot less nightlife than Taipei. If you are talking about international class mainstream clubs, I would also say Taipei seems to have a much higher density than Guangzhou or Shenzhen too.

But my point is that its better to meet girls in more normal natural settings by breaking the rules and engaging in certain types of cold approach or warming girls up who are fixed to a location (employees). That may require a date or two or three before you get intimacy. But the quality of these relationships will generally be much better than what you get from club pulls IMO. If you are horny to the point of not being willing to wait-out the build up with the young pearls you accumulate, then you have two options - seduce a much older women who's open for immediate casual sex with a young guy like you OR go for P4P. But eventually, your pearls should start coming through and paying in spades.

[Rock]

Lesson # 1 that you must learn young

a) Don't look for water in the desert.
b) You can't get blood from a turnip.

You need to go to the Nile to get fresh water in abundance. You must go to a blood bank to get blood. Do you get my drift? You need to go to countries where women are in abundance and where they are friendly. This is the only thing that's worthwhile

People may start telling you that there are places in the desert and times where/when you can get some water. That there are oases -- but there are huge numbers of humans and animals fighting over those. People will attempt to teach you how to fight over the brackish water in those oasis and how to be a better quicker water-seeker.

People will attempt to tell you that you need to learn how to twist turnips a certain way and if you squeeze enough of them, you will get blood. They will also tell you that the reason you can't get blood from them is because you are not skillfull enough.

Get my drift! Go to the Nile! There is no use complaining about this or that quality of the desert and how turnips just don't give you blood.

I sure hope Taiwan has not degenerated into a social/dating desert! It was an oasis for me as I got more dates, gfs, intimacy, quality girls, etc. there than anywhere else in the world I've been.

But I'm sorry to say, there seems to be a trend of the feminist desert rapidly expanding in many areas of the world including Asia. From much of what I read, China is also declining in this regard at a pace even faster than it's economic growth.

[Repatriate]

But I'm sorry to say, there seems to be a trend of the feminist desert rapidly expanding in many areas of the world including Asia. From much of what I read, China is also declining in this regard at a pace even faster than it's economic growth.

I believe the feminist trap follows economic development. Maybe there needs to be an extra level added to Mazlow's hierarchy of needs ..once the base requirements of being provided for and the middle class majority sets in then the westernized feminist bullshit starts to creep into the women.

[Falcon]

Welcome Sinbad! Currently, there are several very active Taiwanese-American members here on the forum, including me, Winston, Momopi, Repatriate, and Rock (our honorary Taiwanese guy). Also I'll be going to Taiwan in a few months.

Even Falcon agrees after his research. He even told me that compared to other cities in Asia, Taipei has the LEAST amount of nightclubs and nightlife to offer. And people don't usually go out together after work, like they do in mainland China. Taiwan is too much like the US. Young people are hard to connect with there. Only older people are open with strangers.

That's exactly what Winston's aunt said during my visit to Las Vegas, remember, not me. But she also said that "Taiwan is worse than the US" in terms of dating, since "they won't even look at you if you don't have a car, house, money," and all sorts of other things. Plus, I definitely would NOT agree with the view that Taiwan has the least nightlife to offer, since my cousins certainly do party a lot in Taipei's night scene. (Lesson: Please make sure to evaluate hearsay from Winston sometimes ) Also in my opinion, having more nightlife wouldn't make the dating scene better either.

And the Chengdu lady we talked to on the phone said a lot of Taiwanese men have complained to her about how Taiwanese women have "princess attitudes" (公主氣), whereas people from the mainland interior are much more easygoing and "authentic" (真情).

According to Rock, Taiwan could be a good dating place for certain kinds of guys (the softer, more introspective Rock-types). But Rock said that since Taiwan is a complicated society, it really can't be pidgeonholed into any sort of black-and-white stereotype. Momopi, being Mr. Practical, would tell us all to "vote with our feet."

[ladislav]

I sure hope Taiwan has not degenerated into a social/dating desert! It was an oasis for me as I got more dates, gfs, intimacy, quality girls, etc. there than anywhere else in the world I've been.

But I'm sorry to say, there seems to be a trend of the feminist desert rapidly expanding in many areas of the world including Asia. From much of what I read, China is also declining in this regard at a pace even faster than it's economic growth.

Lesson number 2- take anecdotal accounts of one's person's success ( or failure) with a grain of salt-- not in regards to their truthfulness, but in terms of their applicability to you. "One man's meat is another man's poison" is a true adage. Societies/countries respond totally differently to different people. And the differences in the responses are startling. To the point of the experiences being total opposites at times. Personal anecdotes do not easily transfer into possible present or future reality of another person in the same environment.

It does not mean that anyone is wrong here; it's just that well, one guy likes one country and it likes him back, and another guy is totally different in his interaction with it, and, often, it's not his fault. The response or lack thereof seems to be subject to both outer and, possibly, also karmic factors that few people can explain.

[AnonymousAmerican]

^the same applies to some guys coming to the US. some men have great success with american women, but that's very rare. anyhow, it's very important ones touches their toes on the pool, as the pool may be too cold or too hot for you, and if it's not right, look for another pool (some people may love mexico but others might like better the philippines, as with me, as even I tried so hard, I can't get attracted to east asian women).

[AnonymousAmerican]

@OP

why not go to mainland china or the philippines (since you're more into east asian women based on your post)? those places are more easy going from what I keep hearing.

[Winston]

Yeah but Falcon,
You told me that Taipei has less nightlife than other big cities in Asia, as if it were your opinion as well, not just my aunt's. I mean, you seemed to concur with it and said that it matched your research as well. I would bet that it's true.

"A lot of nightlife" is subjective. We are talking RELATIVE to other big cities in Asia.

And you also AGREED many times that Taiwan is generally a very repressed and overly conservative country in Asia, and that people there are cold and cliquish with no eye contact. In person, you are honest about this, but perhaps online, you don't like to sound too negative about a particular country.

You also agreed that Rock's depiction of Taiwan is OVERLY positive and optimistic, since he does like to spin things in Taiwan's favor, as though he were an ambassador or propagandist for Taiwan. That's definitely his pattern and he has admitted his bias on this forum. There's no doubt about that. To him, Taiwan is like a religion. lol

Falcon, don't be afraid to admit the truth just because your "big Taiwanese brother" Rock is watching. lol

It is true that around Rock, one can meet more girls in Taiwan, but it doesn't mean that it will go anywhere.

Taiwan is still more repressed and conservative than most of Asia, if not all of Asia. Falcon told me that mainland China girls are way more open, direct and easier to connect with. They also make natural eye contact rather than looking down or forward all the time, like in Taiwan.

As to nightlife in Taiwan, it's not much different than in the US. It's not a friendly atmosphere, and people have fun in groups and cliques, which both Rock and Falcon admit is not their thing. In fact, Rock said he does not vibe with nightlife and dancing anyway, so he's not going to shine there either.

You can ask Falcon. He talked to 3 mainland Chinese ladies on the phone that I'm corresponding with and can personally testify that they are a MILLION times easier to connect with than girls in the USA or Taiwan. He experienced it directly and now knows what I'm talking about.

Btw Falcon, even though you are young, you are into exotic cultures and women that are super down to earth, so I highly doubt that you would fit into Taiwan at all. Very few women there are down to earth, especially the young ones. You told me that being down to earth was the most important trait to you, more important than looks in fact, so you will likely not find that much in Taiwan.

[xiongmao]

I think Taiwan could be a place for older dudes to find hot Chinese ladies, like the Bkk KTV lady. Maybe I need visit and see how much eye contact there is.

China is OK but the cultural revolution has left people kind of empty inside. They're uncivilized and don't know what to do with their new found wealth. Maybe Taiwanese women are better, I've certainly met a couple who were really nice.

Chinese culture does tend to be a bit boring though - the Chinese never invented bars so there's not much to do of an evening.

[AnonymousAmerican]

I think Taiwan could be a place for older dudes to find hot Chinese ladies, like the Bkk KTV lady. Maybe I need visit and see how much eye contact there is.

China is OK but the cultural revolution has left people kind of empty inside. They're uncivilized and don't know what to do with their new found wealth. Maybe Taiwanese women are better, I've certainly met a couple who were really nice.

Chinese culture does tend to be a bit boring though - the Chinese never invented bars so there's not much to do of an evening.

chinese people have a rich culture but from what I have seen based off the immigrants here in the US, they don't know how to go party crazy like how Mediterraneans and related peoples (latin-americans) do. however, chinese people really know how to make good, exotic, and unique foods ( I would love to try shark-fin soup with a beer and some eel with rice).

[Winston]

I think Taiwan could be a place for older dudes to find hot Chinese ladies, like the Bkk KTV lady. Maybe I need visit and see how much eye contact there is.

China is OK but the cultural revolution has left people kind of empty inside. They're uncivilized and don't know what to do with their new found wealth. Maybe Taiwanese women are better, I've certainly met a couple who were really nice.

Chinese culture does tend to be a bit boring though - the Chinese never invented bars so there's not much to do of an evening.

You should go to Taiwan and meet Rock and give us a trip report.

Why isn't there much to do in China during the evening? My aunt told Falcon that after work, people in China go out and have fun in bars, even on a weekday, whereas in Taiwan, people only go out on weekends, generally speaking.

Why is what she says not consistent with what you say?

[Falcon]

Yeah but Falcon,
You told me that Taipei has less nightlife than other big cities in Asia, as if it were your opinion as well, not just my aunt's. I mean, you seemed to concur with it and said that it matched your research as well. I would bet that it's true.

"A lot of nightlife" is subjective. We are talking RELATIVE to other big cities in Asia.

And you also AGREED many times that Taiwan is generally a very repressed and overly conservative country in Asia, and that people there are cold and cliquish with no eye contact. In person, you are hon-est about this, but perhaps online, you don't like to sound too negative about a particular country.

You also agreed that Rock's depiction of Taiwan is OVERLY positive and optimistic, since he does like to spin things in Taiwan's favor, as though he were an ambassador or propagandist for Taiwan. That's definitely his pattern and he has admitted his bias on this forum. There's no doubt about that. To him, Taiwan is like a religion. lol

Falcon, don't be afraid to admit the truth just because your "big Taiwanese brother" Rock is watching. lol

It is true that around Rock, one can meet more girls in Taiwan, but it doesn't mean that it will go anywhere.

Taiwan is still more repressed and conservative than most of Asia, if not all of Asia. Falcon told me that mainland China girls are way more open, direct and easier to connect with. They also make natural eye contact rather than looking down or forward all the time, like in Taiwan.

As to nightlife in Taiwan, it's not much different than in the US. It's not a friendly atmosphere, and people have fun in groups and cliques, which both Rock and Falcon admit is not their thing. In fact, Rock said he does not vibe with nightlife and dancing anyway, so he's not going to shine there either.

You can ask Falcon. He talked to 3 mainland Chinese ladies on the phone that I'm corresponding with and can personally testify that they are a MILLION times easier to connect with than girls in the USA or Taiwan. He experienced it directly and now knows what I'm talking about.

Btw Falcon, even though you are young, you are into exotic cultures and women that are super down to earth, so I highly doubt that you would fit into Taiwan at all. Very few women there are down to earth, especially the young ones. You told me that being down to earth was the most important trait to you, more important than looks in fact, so you will likely not find that much in Taiwan.

Yes, I was agreeing with your aunt's claims that Taiwan is much, much more conservative than China. As for nightlife, she wouldn't know much about the world that savvy, fashionable Taipei youth like my cousins are in, so she wouldn't have much knowledge about Taipei nightlife. Keep in mind that Taiwan has an incredibly large generational gap. My mom said that the fashionable urban Taiwanese youth today almost seem like foreigners compared to the kids in the old days (1970's, martial-rule era).

The only thing that I disagreed with was about the nightlife part (I didn't make that clear while we were having the conversation though), but I agreed about her observations of modern Taiwanese generally being much more materialistic and shallow than some other East Asians.

I also complained about Taiwanese having really negative mentalities, in which the word "NO" seems to be stuck in their heads 24/7. From "No, you should not do it that way" to "No, I'm not taking your gifts" to "No, your compliments aren't true, I'm not good enough" to "No, you shouldn't confront strangers."

And no, I didn't click with Guangzhou urban girls that much, so I really doubt I'd click with mainstream Taipei girls either. Rock observed this as well, and called me "anti-urban", haha. But nevertheless, he strongly encourages me to give Taiwanese women a try.

At the Bangkok airport, I met a guy from Guangzhou who said he could very easily tell I don't fit in with the urban Taiwanese princesses, and even guessed right that I was dating an Isaan (rural NE Thai) woman. He said he couldn't really imagine me with mainstream urban Taiwanese women. Here's what he must have had in mind (image below: The Chinese says "Why would you be scared of them?").




In a few months, we should be expecting a "Rock and Falcon in Taipei" trip report, so get ready!