There are no good jobs...

[Rock]

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26257&p=220147#p220147

suspect the job market for 20 somethings in USA say 25-40 years ago vs. today is like this:

1. Back then, if you could manage to get a practical 4 year degree in a decent university and get at least average grades and were willing to play the game (wear the monkey suit, say the right BS in interviews, etc.), you could easily work your way up the ladder and attain well paid middle management position in a Fortune 500 or similar firm. To do this, you just needed some ambition, willingness to conform to business norms, and and IQ of say 110 or better (maybe even 100 if you had some luck on your side).

OR

You could pursue a blue collar route and also get to stage where you were pulling in decent money, especially if your industry was unionized and/or just very profitable.

2. Fast forward to 2015. Most intellectual processes which require averageish human IQ can be handled by machines and computers or outsourced to certain third worlders. On blue collar side, China has come-in and created the world's most practically efficient and cheapest industrial supply chains so they now handle the bulk of world's manufacturing with their own citizens of course. Giant corporations have gotten their act together so much that all the low lying fruit is gone. Average people with average intelligence in USA have been made largely redundant. They can be used in low value added subsistence roles in low paying service industry jobs, that's about it.

To be financially successful now in USA, assuming you start from scratch, you need to be capable of becoming a doctor, lawyer, certain types of engineers, banker, management or IT consultant OR you've gotta be out of the box creative and entrepreneurial enough to create your own high paying business in some industry including those opportunities online. You could also do decently as a uni professor, or some other kind of niche professional. My point is:

A FEW DECADES AGO, IT WAS VERY DOABLE FOR AN AVERAGE MIDDLE CLASS BACKGROUND TYPE OF MALE WILLING TO JUMP THROUGH ALL THE HOOPS TO AHIEVE THE SO-CALLED AMERICAN DREAM BUT NOW, YOU REALLY NEED TO BE WAY ABOVE AVERAGE IN SOME WAY - IQ, CREATIVITY, OR EXCEPTIONAL LUCK - IF YOU DON'T COME FROM A BACKGROUND WHERE YOU ALREADY HAVE WEALTH, ASSETS, AND SPECIAL PRIVILEGE FROM YOUR FAMILY. YOU BEST BE SOMEHOW IN TOP 5%, BETTER TOP 1% OR BEST TOP 0.1% IN SOME PRACTICAL WAY IF YOU WANNA MAKE IT FROM SCRATCH IN USA!

[WorldTraveler]

It is not a case of young men not having anything to offer. It is a case of society being set up so as to not have anything to offer them. The core business of any society that is not a death cult is inducting young men into the adult world so they can raise families etc. If businesses are not doing that then they should go bust, the assholes running them should starve to death etc. and they should be replaced with businesses that strengthen society instead of destroying it. Whether this happens via the some facsimile of a “free market” or is done more directly matters not.

I'm not denying there is corruption preventing full participation, but your -liberal- mistake is in assuming businesses are obligated to something. whereas everyone is really just a buyer and seller in the economy. The real problem is with the money supply but that's subject for another thread. Why do i feel a deja-vu...

No, it is about your parentage, gender and other things beyond your control. You clearly have never had to look for jobs. You are lucky, just like some men positioned to score females are lucky
You are not seriously suggesting the unemployed spend their days roaming around panhandling random businesses for jobs, are you?

That's exactly what i did every time and this wasn't too long ago. Maybe I'm actually lucky in that i have something to offer, in a variety of fields, most self-taught. Perhaps Tsar could make use of some of his hobbies in this regard.

By the way, Matt never answered OutWest's questions as to what skills he could offer.

I'd say any job is better than no job. I've worked minimum wage jobs. I think going door to door is necessary if you can't get anything from the internet. A cousin of mine who is 22 just moved here from a different state. He only has a high school degree. He got his first job as here as a cook at a restaurant then he got hired at an upscale grocery store. The next job will be bigger.

As far as hobbies go, they can be a big time wasters. The internet can be a big time waster too. I came back from overseas and worked on my hobbies for a year. I basically pissed away a year that I could have been working and making and saving money. If I had worked that year, I'd could be living overseas now, instead of wasting my nights on the internet!

[Cornfed]

Yeah but like i said even if it's some blue collar stuff or pizza place, you'll get work experience. it's not even about the money, just so you can say people have trusted you, and you may get some exercise and improve on people skills. As well as getting out of the house and stimulating your mind.

While you think you are offering good advice, and what you say may have some truth to it, you are largely just being a cunt, so why not shut up?

[Cornfed]

To be financially successful now in USA, assuming you start from scratch, you need to be capable of becoming a doctor, lawyer, certain types of engineers, banker, management or IT consultant OR you've gotta be out of the box creative and entrepreneurial enough to create your own high paying business in some industry including those opportunities online. You could also do decently as a uni professor, or some other kind of niche professional. My point is:

A FEW DECADES AGO, IT WAS VERY DOABLE FOR AN AVERAGE MIDDLE CLASS BACKGROUND TYPE OF MALE WILLING TO JUMP THROUGH ALL THE HOOPS TO AHIEVE THE SO-CALLED AMERICAN DREAM BUT NOW, YOU REALLY NEED TO BE WAY ABOVE AVERAGE IN SOME WAY - IQ, CREATIVITY, OR EXCEPTIONAL LUCK - IF YOU DON'T COME FROM A BACKGROUND WHERE YOU ALREADY HAVE WEALTH, ASSETS, AND SPECIAL PRIVILEGE FROM YOUR FAMILY. YOU BEST BE SOMEHOW IN TOP 5%, BETTER TOP 1% OR BEST TOP 0.1% IN SOME PRACTICAL WAY IF YOU WANNA MAKE IT FROM SCRATCH IN USA!

You too don't get it. Intelligent and gifted men who are not part of the elite are who the system is now very well designed to keep out and keep marginalized.

[Rock]

No Cornfed. You've been reading too much about conspiracy theories. A bright enough person can make it, and then do it again and again, even today. Graduates at top MBA programs, medical schools, law schools, etc. still have great odds of earning big coin as do business developers who create a successful small business. But it tends to take exceptional talent and/or intellect to go one of these routes. The bar for making it is just so much higher now than it used to be. That's one byproduct of automation and globalization for America which by the way has been shrinking gradually these decades in terms of global GDP share.

[Cornfed]

No Cornfed. You've been reading too much about conspiracy theories. A bright enough person can make it, and then do it again and again, even today. Graduates at top MBA programs, medical schools, law schools, etc. still have great odds of earning big coin as do business developers who create a successful small business. But it tends to take exceptional talent and/or intellect to go one of these routes. The bar for making it is just so much higher now than it used to be. That's one byproduct of automation and globalization for America which by the way has been shrinking gradually these decades in terms of global GDP share.

I don't know why people who don't know shit still feel the need to empty the vacuum of their minds on the Internet. Strange.

[romparoo]

I didn't follow this thread, but apparently it splintered into another thread with plenty of personal attacks both sides...lol
I am a Millennial myself. Sometimes I think thread like this tells more about the mentality of the posters than the actual issue listed in the subject header.
Both getting a job and getting a date have two similarities...1) making oneself visible and 2) making oneself marketable
The important question to ask is: 'what is my progress?' Rationalizing failure does not make one successful.
If I didn't win a job, I will ask 'what have I learned in this experience that will give me a little extra edge next time'. That is a progress related question. If I learn nothing, then at least I will try to make connections. There is the manager who interviewed me, the guy who walked past me in the corridor, the receptionist...it opens possibilities
Same thing I can do when I am looking for a woman.
I might still fail, but when I have a positive mindset combined with proactive approaches, I am getting closer every time.

[Cornfed]

I didn't follow this thread, but apparently it splintered into another thread with plenty of personal attacks both sides...lol
I am a Millennial myself. Sometimes I think thread like this tells more about the mentality of the posters than the actual issue listed in the subject header.
Both getting a job and getting a date have two similarities...1) making oneself visible and 2) making oneself marketable

So it would appear that nothing you say should ever be taken seriously for the rest of your life then.

[MarcosZeitola]

So it would appear that nothing you say should ever be taken seriously for the rest of your life then.

You seem particularly short-fused and mad today for some reason. Even more then ususual. What happened?

[zboy1]

If you are one of those "average people" that Rock talks about, how can that person make themselves stand-out from the crowd? Is it to go back to school and get a graduate degree, or is it something else? What can an average person do that would make themselves more attractive in the current economic mess most of the world find themselves in, currently????????

[Rock]

No Cornfed. You've been reading too much about conspiracy theories. A bright enough person can make it, and then do it again and again, even today. Graduates at top MBA programs, medical schools, law schools, etc. still have great odds of earning big coin as do business developers who create a successful small business. But it tends to take exceptional talent and/or intellect to go one of these routes. The bar for making it is just so much higher now than it used to be. That's one byproduct of automation and globalization for America which by the way has been shrinking gradually these decades in terms of global GDP share.

I don't know why people who don't know shit still feel the need to empty the vacuum of their minds on the Internet. Strange.

Come-on Cornfed, how can you be so sure that I'm wrong on this one? Are the millennials I know who are doing well financially all part of some secret elite? What exactly do you mean by elite anyway?

Yes, if you are starting from scratch (no money for higher education especially and male) yes the system is increasingly rigged against you. I'll give you that. But it's still doable if you are talented and bright enough. There are plenty of examples to prove this unless they are all part of whatever you personally define as 'elites'.

Anyway, please, you seem to know a lot more about this subject. So clarify and educate us please. Don't just criticize. Show us the light.

[Cornfed]

If you are one of those "average people" that Rock talks about, how can that person make themselves stand-out from the crowd?

You are just supposed to magically do some unspecified thing, otherwise you are an evil person, so the job market, which is set up by good magical elves, will reject you. If you become a good person, and hence do the good things required, whatever the hell they are, you will instantly find a job. For example, if you wanted a job in a coal mine then coal deposits, mining permits, capital mining equipment etc. would instantly materialize at your doorstep. To believe otherwise is defeatist and blaming others for ones own shortcomings, whatever they might be.

[droid]

Yeah but like i said even if it's some blue collar stuff or pizza place, you'll get work experience. it's not even about the money, just so you can say people have trusted you, and you may get some exercise and improve on people skills. As well as getting out of the house and stimulating your mind.

While you think you are offering good advice, and what you say may have some truth to it, you are largely just being a c**t, so why not shut up?

Wrong, Tsar needs the advice, he needs to get out of the f*king house into the real world, instead of letting his mind rot and obsess with extreme idealism and such. If I really wanted to be a c*nt, I would've said you guys are just some lazy libtards that want the guvmnt (i.e. others) to provide for you, supposedly eugenic men.

[onethousandknives]

http://lifehacker.com/5929987/get-a-job ... experiment

Have fun.

That doesn't give a person a confidence boost. That article just showed how difficult it is to even get a job that's posted on Craigslist.

Was meant to agree with your premise.

Also, regarding applying online, I had big problems with online applications. The problem with online applications is they're actually meant as psychological evaluations. So if you bomb out on the psych eval portion by not appearing SUPER HAPPY ALL THE TIME, you're pretty much f***ed. So if you bomb out on the psych eval portion in any manner, you'll get the "no reply" and in fact your application will not even go to the store. You'll call the store up, ask if they saw your application, and they'll say they didn't. The only luck I've had with any sort of job and finding it besides government funded internships or disability agencies is with jobs with a standard paper application. Anything online application, unless you fit their specific psychological profile, your application will not even make it to the store.

[onethousandknives]

Also, one other thing I've thought of but can't confirm for sure is dumbing down your application some. Like, I've seen people apply online to like, grocery stores or whatever, and have tons of spelling errors/etc and get the job. Meanwhile I'd have perfect grammar and spelling, would capitalize things correctly, and no replies. So that might be something to think about if you're desperate.