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Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating scene

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GoingAwol
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Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating scene

Post by GoingAwol » January 3rd, 2016, 12:29 pm

I've been pondering the reasons why so many men can't get dates or sex in America and I think the main reason is introversion/shyness. Sure, there are undoubtedly men who struggle to get women because of other reasons, but I think this is the biggest factor for most men that are perpetually single. The reason being is America is an extremely extroverted society and it's every man for himself in the dating scene. Just a few decades ago shy men had social safety nets in place to meet women, but not anymore. If you are a shy/introverted man in America you are sh*t out of luck if you aren't exceptionally good looking.

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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by jamesbond » January 3rd, 2016, 12:33 pm

GoingAwol wrote:I've been pondering the reasons why so many men can't get dates or sex in America and I think the main reason is introversion/shyness. Sure, there are undoubtedly men who struggle to get women because of other reasons, but I think this is the biggest factor for most men that are perpetually single. The reason being is America is an extremely extroverted society and it's every man for himself in the dating scene. Just a few decades ago shy men had social safety nets in place to meet women, but not anymore. If you are a shy/introverted man in America you are sh*t out of luck if you aren't exceptionally good looking.
It's sad but true, America is a country filled with extroverts and women love extroverts because they are seen as more masculine than shy guys are.
"When I think about the idea of getting involved with an American woman, I don't know if I should laugh .............. or vomit!"

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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by GoingAwol » January 4th, 2016, 6:28 am

jamesbond wrote:
GoingAwol wrote:I've been pondering the reasons why so many men can't get dates or sex in America and I think the main reason is introversion/shyness. Sure, there are undoubtedly men who struggle to get women because of other reasons, but I think this is the biggest factor for most men that are perpetually single. The reason being is America is an extremely extroverted society and it's every man for himself in the dating scene. Just a few decades ago shy men had social safety nets in place to meet women, but not anymore. If you are a shy/introverted man in America you are sh*t out of luck if you aren't exceptionally good looking.
It's sad but true, America is a country filled with extroverts and women love extroverts because they are seen as more masculine than shy guys are.
Jamesbond,
one of the things I've noticed is people in America don't introduce people to each other anymore. Based off of what i've heard from my family and other older people it seems that most people in the older generations would meet boyfriends/girlfriends via introductions from friends and family. Just try to imagine how much easier it would have been for shy men to meet women back in those days. You didn't have to cold approach women at clubs or crowded parties because you could be set up by friends and family and connect with them one on one in non-threatening settings. That stuff just doesn't exist anymore... It's every man for himself.

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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by Adama » January 4th, 2016, 7:27 am

From what I remember based on experience, all you have to do is be close enough with a woman that you two can have a conversation. If she's interested then she will ask you out eventually. She will not break the stranger barrier though, which is why you have to be close enough to be able to have a friendly conversation. You don't even have to ask women out. They will do the asking, or they are not interested.
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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by GoingAwol » January 4th, 2016, 8:35 am

Everyone keeps talking about all these aggressive women that are asking guys out, but I never see it. I have friends that are successful with women and even they have to make all the moves most of the time. Women don't have to make moves and put themselves out there to get guys and that's why they usually don't. Just think about it, if you never had to risk rejection to get dates, would you do it? Probably not. Let's pretend what you say is true though and girls will make the moves if you get close enough to them to have regular friendly conversations. Even if that's true, shy guys are still at a major disadvantage because even getting to that point can be difficult because you still have to put yourself out there and compete with the more extroverted guys. And from what I've seen aggressive and outgoing guys are going to win out 99% of the time.

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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by Adama » January 4th, 2016, 9:08 am

GoingAwol wrote:Everyone keeps talking about all these aggressive women that are asking guys out, but I never see it. I have friends that are successful with women and even they have to make all the moves most of the time. Women don't have to make moves and put themselves out there to get guys and that's why they usually don't. Just think about it, if you never had to risk rejection to get dates, would you do it? Probably not. Let's pretend what you say is true though and girls will make the moves if you get close enough to them to have regular friendly conversations. Even if that's true, shy guys are still at a major disadvantage because even getting to that point can be difficult because you still have to put yourself out there and compete with the more extroverted guys. And from what I've seen aggressive and outgoing guys are going to win out 99% of the time.

You're right about that. I made that post because there is no reason for them to be shy. They don't have to be shy, because the women will do the work. That is when the woman is interested, she will do the asking. In fact, I think that is the best way for things to work.

I didnt mean in a random, one time event, like at a club or bad. I meant women a man gets to see fairly often. If they can make conversation with each other, then if she is interested, she will either start laying down some heavy hints (and part of this is that many men miss women's subtle language; they don't know woman-speak), or they will directly make a suggestion for the two of you. Okay so they will not flat out phrase things in the form of a question, but they will flat out directly state it. For example, "We should go out for drinks together." That is a woman asking a man out without "asking" him out.

Yes, women do this all the time. It is the women who pursue men, believe it or not. Everyone thinks men pursue women, but chasing someone is submissive behavior (and if taken to the extreme you can see this, cause they call it desperation and stalking). Women do not find submissiveness attractive in men, because they are heterosexual and want real men. Men do not beg. Just play it cool like there are a million other chicks waiting (cause the world has 3.5 billion women, so there are at least that many).

We know that most men are attracted to most women. Whereas most women are not attracted to most men. In other words, women know they could have almost any man. But, they only want certain men, not most of those men. Don't you think they'd be willing to speak woman speak just enough to ask that man out, if she really wants him? The answer is yes. The only thing is, she isn't going to be the one to initiate the first meeting to break the stranger barrier. The man must still do that.
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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by Adama » January 4th, 2016, 9:12 am

GoingAwol wrote:Everyone keeps talking about all these aggressive women that are asking guys out, but I never see it. I have friends that are successful with women and even they have to make all the moves most of the time. Women don't have to make moves and put themselves out there to get guys and that's why they usually don't. Just think about it, if you never had to risk rejection to get dates, would you do it? Probably not. Let's pretend what you say is true though and girls will make the moves if you get close enough to them to have regular friendly conversations. Even if that's true, shy guys are still at a major disadvantage because even getting to that point can be difficult because you still have to put yourself out there and compete with the more extroverted guys. And from what I've seen aggressive and outgoing guys are going to win out 99% of the time.
No. If you knew you could get almost any person of the opposite sex that you want, you would be much more proactive, because you are already fairly confident of the outcome. Besides that, by using heavy hints and suggestion, you can be aggressive without risk to ego. No one can say "no" to a suggestion or a hint. Therefore there is no risk to ego.
A good man is above pettiness. He is better than that.

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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by Hero » January 4th, 2016, 12:46 pm

GoingAwol wrote:Everyone keeps talking about all these aggressive women that are asking guys out, but I never see it.
Women hit on me all the time. Unfortunately, I can almost never reciprocate their interest.

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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by traveller » January 4th, 2016, 9:38 pm

GoingAwol wrote:I've been pondering the reasons why so many men can't get dates or sex in America and I think the main reason is introversion/shyness. Sure, there are undoubtedly men who struggle to get women because of other reasons, but I think this is the biggest factor for most men that are perpetually single. The reason being is America is an extremely extroverted society and it's every man for himself in the dating scene. Just a few decades ago shy men had social safety nets in place to meet women, but not anymore. If you are a shy/introverted man in America you are sh*t out of luck if you aren't exceptionally good looking.
I am one of those shy guys. And not only do I feel out of luck, it especially hurts me really bad knowing that there are women, especially cute, busty women, hooking up with not only extroverted guys, but even guys who are downright armed, violent, and even deadly if his girlfriend/fiancee/wife aka his "lady" is approached by another guy.

In a way, it even looks as though the only way a shy single guy will ever get any kind of romance in America is at a strip club.

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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by IraqVet2003 » January 5th, 2016, 2:22 am

traveller wrote:
GoingAwol wrote:I've been pondering the reasons why so many men can't get dates or sex in America and I think the main reason is introversion/shyness. Sure, there are undoubtedly men who struggle to get women because of other reasons, but I think this is the biggest factor for most men that are perpetually single. The reason being is America is an extremely extroverted society and it's every man for himself in the dating scene. Just a few decades ago shy men had social safety nets in place to meet women, but not anymore. If you are a shy/introverted man in America you are sh*t out of luck if you aren't exceptionally good looking.
I am one of those shy guys. And not only do I feel out of luck, it especially hurts me really bad knowing that there are women, especially cute, busty women, hooking up with not only extroverted guys, but even guys who are downright armed, violent, and even deadly if his girlfriend/fiancee/wife aka his "lady" is approached by another guy.

In a way, it even looks as though the only way a shy single guy will ever get any kind of romance in America is at a strip club.
Hey Traveller, you're not the only one. Because I too am one of those shy/introverted men. As a matter of fact I was voted "THE MOST SHY" in my high school year book (Class of 1991). Even now at the age of 42 (soon to turn 43 on January 25, 2016)!!! However, guys I would like to add that even as Winston once said on one of his youtube.com videos/podcasts that being extroverted is not enough in America. This is because America SOCIAL DISCONNECTEDNESS/CLIQUES/ISOLATION also makes it hard to meet let alone date women. Unless your making a lot of money/wealthy and/or hot looking man(like Denzel Washington, Will Smith, Brad Pitt, Chris Helmsworth, etc.) not that I consider an ugly looking guy.

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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by Adama » January 5th, 2016, 2:33 am

I don't think America is an extroverted society at all. Of course if you are talking about a celebrity, or a sociopath, then yes, they are extroverted. You'd have to be in order to want to put your face in front of millions.

But it seems to me that the USA is a stranger danger society, in which people are encouraged not to associate with strangers, which would seem to indicate a high level of introversion to me. Or maybe that's just me.

I've been thinking about this, and I think the main difference between life in the states and places like Europe are the stranger barrier is lower in Europe. Also most of Europe is urban. They live in the city and they do not need public transportation. More people in a smaller space means more opportunity to meet people. Whereas in the states people are spread out and just go straight from home to work by driving and vice versa. So there is little opportunity to meet strangers in the US. Therefore fewer opportunities to meet women.

If we all rode the subway everyday, or if we each went to the beach everyday, then things might improve as the number of available women is denser in some areas.
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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by Winston » January 5th, 2016, 4:33 am

GoingAwol wrote:I've been pondering the reasons why so many men can't get dates or sex in America and I think the main reason is introversion/shyness. Sure, there are undoubtedly men who struggle to get women because of other reasons, but I think this is the biggest factor for most men that are perpetually single. The reason being is America is an extremely extroverted society and it's every man for himself in the dating scene. Just a few decades ago shy men had social safety nets in place to meet women, but not anymore. If you are a shy/introverted man in America you are sh*t out of luck if you aren't exceptionally good looking.
Not really. Thats more like a symptom than a cause. Im introverted too. But how come i become more open, social and extroverted in russia, europe or china? When you are around people who are more genuine and down to earth, you will be more comfortable around others and open up more. Thus conversations with strangers start more naturally. Ive experienced this countless times overseas.

The US is weird in that it feels abnormal to talk to strangers. And even when you do, everyone keeps their distance. Everyone wants to be left alone. I wouldnt say the US is extroverted in the pure sense of the world. Americans are extroverted around their friends and social clique. But not with strangers.

The main thing is that the social vibe is weird in the US. And women arent approachable. Thats why men feel uncomfortable around them, so they become introverted and blame themselves. Yet how come men in russia or latin america or europe can meet women just fine? Gotta see it from that perspective.
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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by GoingAwol » January 5th, 2016, 10:55 am

Adama wrote:
GoingAwol wrote:Everyone keeps talking about all these aggressive women that are asking guys out, but I never see it. I have friends that are successful with women and even they have to make all the moves most of the time. Women don't have to make moves and put themselves out there to get guys and that's why they usually don't. Just think about it, if you never had to risk rejection to get dates, would you do it? Probably not. Let's pretend what you say is true though and girls will make the moves if you get close enough to them to have regular friendly conversations. Even if that's true, shy guys are still at a major disadvantage because even getting to that point can be difficult because you still have to put yourself out there and compete with the more extroverted guys. And from what I've seen aggressive and outgoing guys are going to win out 99% of the time.

You're right about that. I made that post because there is no reason for them to be shy. They don't have to be shy, because the women will do the work. That is when the woman is interested, she will do the asking. In fact, I think that is the best way for things to work.

I didnt mean in a random, one time event, like at a club or bad. I meant women a man gets to see fairly often. If they can make conversation with each other, then if she is interested, she will either start laying down some heavy hints (and part of this is that many men miss women's subtle language; they don't know woman-speak), or they will directly make a suggestion for the two of you. Okay so they will not flat out phrase things in the form of a question, but they will flat out directly state it. For example, "We should go out for drinks together." That is a woman asking a man out without "asking" him out.

Yes, women do this all the time. It is the women who pursue men, believe it or not. Everyone thinks men pursue women, but chasing someone is submissive behavior (and if taken to the extreme you can see this, cause they call it desperation and stalking). Women do not find submissiveness attractive in men, because they are heterosexual and want real men. Men do not beg. Just play it cool like there are a million other chicks waiting (cause the world has 3.5 billion women, so there are at least that many).

We know that most men are attracted to most women. Whereas most women are not attracted to most men. In other words, women know they could have almost any man. But, they only want certain men, not most of those men. Don't you think they'd be willing to speak woman speak just enough to ask that man out, if she really wants him? The answer is yes. The only thing is, she isn't going to be the one to initiate the first meeting to break the stranger barrier. The man must still do that.
If you are saying that women will "drop subtle hints" I can agree with you. However, you will never get me to believe that women make it very obvious or outright say "I like you". Women will always operate in a way that gives them plausible deniability in case they change their minds tomorrow or 10 seconds from now. Of course, I guess it just depends on what you consider a heavy hint. I think I have an example of what you might consider a heavy hint. A couple of years ago I worked with this one girl who I was very attracted to (We'll call her Amanda). Anyways, one day I was telling a guy I worked with that I liked her (We'll call him C.J) and he lied and told me they (him and her) were already dating. Obviously, this was very awkward for me and it ended any thoughts I had of asking her out. Anyways, apparently word got back to Amanda that C.J had told me they were dating and she made it a point to flag me down at work one day and ask me "Did C.J tell you we were dating?" to which I replied "Yea he mentioned that" and she responded "Well he lied, we aren't dating. we are just friends" and I simply said "Oh ok" and went back to what I was doing. In retrospect it appears she was basically saying "Hey i'm single! Ask me out dummy!" but in the moment that wasn't so obvious. In fact, maybe it's not obvious at all. Her making it a point to let me know she wasn't dating that guy could mean she just didn't want rumors spreading around the workplace that they were dating. It appears that she was dropping a heavy hint, but her actions could be interpreted several ways. The bottom line is trying to read women is usually an exercise in futility. And let's suppose you think you are getting green lights from a woman and decide to act on them. You only have a very limited time to process them and act before she loses interest and moves on. So even if you are getting "hints" you are still taking a shot in the dark if you decide to act on it. And add social anxiety and/or ASD into the mix and it becomes even more scary/risky. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.

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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by GoingAwol » January 5th, 2016, 11:38 am

Winston wrote:
GoingAwol wrote:I've been pondering the reasons why so many men can't get dates or sex in America and I think the main reason is introversion/shyness. Sure, there are undoubtedly men who struggle to get women because of other reasons, but I think this is the biggest factor for most men that are perpetually single. The reason being is America is an extremely extroverted society and it's every man for himself in the dating scene. Just a few decades ago shy men had social safety nets in place to meet women, but not anymore. If you are a shy/introverted man in America you are sh*t out of luck if you aren't exceptionally good looking.
Not really. Thats more like a symptom than a cause. Im introverted too. But how come i become more open, social and extroverted in russia, europe or china? When you are around people who are more genuine and down to earth, you will be more comfortable around others and open up more. Thus conversations with strangers start more naturally. Ive experienced this countless times overseas.

The US is weird in that it feels abnormal to talk to strangers. And even when you do, everyone keeps their distance. Everyone wants to be left alone. I wouldnt say the US is extroverted in the pure sense of the world. Americans are extroverted around their friends and social clique. But not with strangers.

The main thing is that the social vibe is weird in the US. And women arent approachable. Thats why men feel uncomfortable around them, so they become introverted and blame themselves. Yet how come men in russia or latin america or europe can meet women just fine? Gotta see it from that perspective.
I think you are onto something Winston. One of the Russian women I talk to recently told me "Both of us will probably be shy and nervous when we meet each other". Can you imagine an American woman saying something like that? When she said this I asked her "Why do you think that?" and she responded "It's only normal for men and women to be nervous when they first meet each other". You definitely wont be hearing American women saying stuff like that anytime soon. In America you have all this pressure to be cool and confident and I think that can make shy/anxious people even more gun shy than they already are. Maybe there is something to be said about feeling more relaxed in cultures that don't put all that pressure on you to act cool.

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Re: Shy/introverted men suffer the most in the U.S dating sc

Post by jamesbond » January 6th, 2016, 4:19 pm

When you have a large portion of the female population in the US who look like this, maybe it's just best to avoid American women altogether! :P

Image
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