Happier Abroad Forum Community

I just had this happen to me for the first time in 17 years of selling on ebay. It could happen to anyone selling anything from any site, getting paid with paypal, and shipping it WITHOUT a tracking number. Luckily amount was small, barely 2 figures, but I'm worried about more of the same now.

It works like this:

You sell something online, in this case from ebay, and ship it using the cheapest shipping method, that the customer pays for, but doesn't offer tracking, which is typically quite expensive.

Before 60 days are up from the time you sent it, the buyer files a claim against you saying they didn't receive it, and want a refund. Since you didn't have tracking, you have no way of proving it was delivered, paypal sides with the customer in 99% of cases and gives them a refund, taken out of your account! Even if you prove you sent the item, you can't prove it was received, so they take the money from you. I take photos of every package I send at the post office, once it has been stamped and has a customs form if it is going abroad. I sent them my photos but it doesn't matter, because the paypal user agreement says without tracking and proof of delivery, the buyer wins. Even if it says it was delivered, buyers can claim they still didn't get it and it was stolen, so now some sellers are asking for a signature too as the only proof. Needless to say this makes it wide open for scammers. Anyone can say they didn't get something that was sent without tracking and boom, a refund. So the "buyers" get the item, and get it for free.

The seller does his job and sends the non trackable item, and pays the post office, and the post office can then do whatever they want, and so can the buyer. The post office can lose it, or do anything else with it, and since it can't be traced, the innocent seller is on the hook. Even if it gets delivered, the buyer can just lie and say he didn't get it, or doesn't like it, and paypal takes the money out of the sellers account. I filed a claim with the post office, and they can do nothing and offer no compensation.

Simply astonishing how the seller does his part, but the other 2 parties don't really have to, yet it costs them nothing and costs the seller everything.

The cost of tracking, especially on international shipments, is so much more, that no one will pay it, especially for a low priced item.

I googled this issue and it is apparently a major issue and one of the reasons paypal is hated so much. My item was low priced, but it can happen with any amount and I'm sure many people are getting burned by scam artists that know they can get a refund. After having a very unpleasant phone call with them, Paypal staff admitted that anyone can claim they didn't get something and they will get a refund, and that's life.

I once didn't get something after 60 days so filed a claim, and got a refund. The items did finally turn up though after another 30 days, so I told the seller and they billed me again and paid. I just don't think most people will do that. I have no way of knowing if my customer got the item and is pulling a scam or if he really didn't get it. The post office said thanks for letting us know about your potentially missing item, and hung up.

Welcome to the Jewish world...

PayPal, Ebay is owned by the Jews...Its always going to be unfair.

Also, they are not that generous to buyers as well...If you have too many refund request, from various sellers, its obvious that guy is a scammer..he can pull his trick few times but not every time...Indians do this all the time and get banned...

In India, I get 4% deducted fee + there crappy horrendous exchange rate while receiving money from US clients..I loose 100 to 200 USD every time a client make me payment through paypal....these jews have closed down all other venues like egold which was created by a white man but got raided and shut down due to jew claim of money laundering...

You now only have thieving PayPal to do business with.

I don't use paypal unless absolutely necessary when dealing with US clients, because they totally control US money flow.

PayPal is a thieving jew scum

Will N. Dowd wrote:The cost of tracking, especially on international shipments, is so much more, that no one will pay it, especially for a low priced item.

My attitude has been "no sale" is cheaper than INR/SNAD scammers and lowballers.
A few months ago, a guy was giving me the "too bad you use fulfillment center rather than shipping direct" treatment. I spent a few days researching & seriously thinking it over, but decided to hold out. A week or so later, another buyer pays full price, NQA.
I've run into this a few times -- item will suddenly get inquiries from someone wanting it faster/cheaper/through a hoop and another will sometimes come along and buy it out from under the first, no haggling.

Will N. Dowd wrote:I googled this issue and it is apparently a major issue and one of the reasons paypal is hated so much. My item was low priced, but it can happen with any amount and I'm sure many people are getting burned by scam artists that know they can get a refund. After having a very unpleasant phone call with them, Paypal staff admitted that anyone can claim they didn't get something and they will get a refund, and that's life.

The consensus on the trader forums seems to be don't bend on the selling terms & don't skimp on protecting yourself (buying OR selling) since no one else will do it. I agree. I did deals years ago in ways I'd NEVER risk today.

starchild5 wrote: Also, they are not that generous to buyers as well...If you have too many refund request, from various sellers, its obvious that guy is a scammer..he can pull his trick few times but not every time...Indians do this all the time and get banned...

About 10-20% of the stuff I buy on Ebay either never arrives, doesn't match the description or is just a shit product. If it wasn't for the refund policy from Ebay I wouldn't use them.

The other week I bought an item from someone with 100% positive feedback. It didn't match the description so I contacted him and he told me to return it for a refund. The postage though would have been equivalent to half what I paid for the item so I told him that he had to pay the postage. I got a full refund plus I kept the item (playstation game but without the manual). Serves him right for not being totally honest.