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The "friend zone" and never having dated in college

Vent your rants and raves here about whatever makes you mad, angry or frustrated.

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Falcon
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The "friend zone" and never having dated in college

Post by Falcon » June 15th, 2017, 1:20 pm

The friend zone

Women constantly putting you into the "friend zone" is something that people in many parts of the world will not understand. To them, it's like breaking the laws of physics, such as telling them that an egg will not boil if you toss it into hot water.

It's something I always try to put behind and do not try to think about. But once in a while, it pops up as women abroad ask me why I have never had a US girlfriend in high school and college. They see women everywhere interested in me, and they actually think I'm a highly desirable mate who is likely to be a playboy. But when they say that I must have also had many girls in the US, I would say that the US is different. There, it's easier to get a gay boyfriend than to get a girlfriend, because so many people there are gay. Then I would sometimes explain the "friend zone" concept to them, and it just doesn't make sense to them.

In Thailand, if a boy and a girl spend time together, they will more than likely become boyfriend and girlfriend. If they start spending a lot of time together, people will start gossiping about how they must be in a relationship now. This is not the case in the US, where plenty of men and women spend time together as "friends." This is something that many people in Thailand and perhaps even China cannot quite grasp.

My American friends have this problem as well. They would start hanging out with a girl and think she is just a "friend." But then other Thais would start thinking that they must be attracted to each other. Spending a lot of time with a girl is basically announcing to the community that you are together.

A few times, I had been invited to help tutor some girls in English and Chinese for free while they teach theirs for in exchange. My male friend from the US recommended me to do so, and did not suspect that these girls would be "breaking the friend zone." This is because in the US, we would spend time helping out lots of female friends at school (high school and college), and the girls would see us strictly as platonic friends. They would not flirt with us at all, and once they pass the classes, they would thank us for our help and we'd never hear from them again.

But my girlfriend told me that in Thailand, it is inevitable many of the girls would start to show interest in me. And she was right - she looked at how the girls were talking to me on Facebook, and told me not to tutor them anymore. They were clearly looking for marriage partners, and were asking about my family, my relationship history, and giving telltales signs of being interested.

In the US, I would tutor girls and help them out with homework for days, and they would not flirt at all or show interest. That simply does not happen in Thailand. Many girls are eventually going to flirt and feel some attraction towards you, and it often takes less than a month or two for relationships to start happening once they start to spend quite a bit of one-on-one time with you. But in the US, the girls would just use me for homework and then leave. I am simply in their "friend zone."


Why was I never able to date in the US?

I went to the University of California, where the student demographics on my campus were approximately 50% Asian, 30% white, and 20% others. My background was quite similar to theirs.

I can rule out these things for sure:
- Age: I was the same age (18-22) as the other undergrad girls (now I'm 26).
- Race: Most of my peers were Asians dating other Asians. Taiwanese Americans dating other Taiwanese Americans. There's not much of a stigma to being an Asian guy, unlike what some Asians outside California and Hawaii experience.
- Class: I was a typical middle-class kid with family incomes and situations similar to everyone else's, and was not from a ghetto. I was able to attend California's top public schools, and lived in the heart of Silicon Valley and in affluent San Diego suburbs.
- Height: I am just over 6 foot tall.
- Looks: I am thin and athletic, and not overweight or short. No one has really called me ugly before, and I looked like a regular good-looking college student.
- Money: I came from an upper-middle class family, was not poor at all, had my own car, and did not have any financial problems. I am now financially independent and can provide a decent standard of living for my family in Thailand. This is something that many women in Asian look for in a suitable husband.
- Social skills: I was able to make easily friends with lots of girls. I liked to talk to people, try new things, and expand my interests. I was an easygoing guy. No one thought of me as a creep or a loser.
- Getting out enough: I was involved in clubs, met lots of girls in my classes, and enjoyed going to events.
- Standing out: People saw me as a whiz kid, the kid who can play musical instruments well, solve Rubik's cubes, get straight A's, speak lots of languages, and win medals for the school's track team.
- Not messing up: No criminal record, no kids, no previous marriages, no crazy ex's, no tattoos, no drinking, no smoking, no personality disorders, no illnesses.

I was not a "cool" kid who dressed in the latest fads, and did not speak with an urban California teenage twang with lots of cool slang. I didn't fit into all the cool kid cliques. But still, even if you don't have these things, you should still at least be able to land a decent girl. Even if many girls like staying in their own cliques and playing around with their smartphones, at least they should still be dateable. You see people who didn't fit into cool kid cliques and still got decent girlfriends who are at least just OK-looking plain Janes leading simple lives. But this didn't even happen to me.

So you see, there wasn't anything that was supposed to be wrong with me. But time and again, women kept friend-zoning me over and over and over again. 4 years of high school and 4 years of college. 8 years without ever getting to date a girl in your school even if you desperately wanted to. You would spend lots of time with dozens of girls, and they ALL slotted me into their friend zone. This claim is something that women in other parts of the world simply have trouble believing. You see, once I flew abroad, I was instantly able to get girlfriends within one week of arriving. But years upon years of not being able to get a girlfriend in the US, even though I wanted to.

How the heck is a tall, good-looking, responsible, smart kid unable to get even a girl? Even my parents could not understand this. Girls in every single country I've been to outside the US cannot understand this. They only see women around me being attracted to me. In most parts of the world, even if you are a bit shy and awkward, if you are a decent-looking young guy with no serious handicaps, you should not have any problems finding a girl at all. Maybe some of you won't be able to believe this either?

Americans will say that maybe it's because you haven't found the right person yet, or that someday it will just work out and that it will happen. But it never happened, year after year. And such a situation would have been absolutely impossible for me to be in for so many countries that I've been to - Mexico, China, Vietnam, Indonesia, Thailand, Myanmar, Guatemala. And I would say this is more likely to happen in the US, and much less likely in Western Europe.

I don't think about this so much anymore now that I am abroad. I've pretty much stopped thinking about the US dating scene and American women. But it's something that has to come back to me every once in a while when curious locals bring it up.

It's something that I feel like I permanently missed out on life and could never get back. Something you'll have to explain to people. My parents asked about this, my girlfriends abroad asked about this, and the list goes on. It's like if you have never married between the ages of 20-45 but was able to successfully get married at age 60, people will still have to ask you questions about why that never happened during the prime of your life. Similarly, I was never able to date during the prime of my life in the US, and was finally able to have a great dating life and then a family abroad, but those early years will just have to come back to haunt you when people bring it up. You will always feel like you've permanently missed out on something. What's it like to date a girl in high school? What's it like to date a girl in college? Why did this happen to me in the US? I'll never know.

Eric
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Re: The "friend zone" and never having dated in college

Post by Eric » June 15th, 2017, 1:48 pm

I've felt like this too. Its because the dating scene sucks, here, there are very few non-messed up women...and overall the culture sucks.


I have had the same feelings why did I not date enough. But I knew it was this place...still doesn't help at all, it's a good place for hooking with girls nut that's not what I want. So that irony is painful also.
I knew staying here would damage me and it has.

The mistake you made that I didn't was that I never had women 'friends'. I don't mix up that way. See, there is a thing called gender and it matters.

Now...I've grown wiser and I'm 30, but the same thoughts haunted me. Same situation, tall gl, handsome atletic, no dates ever. Periods of dry spells. I just got used to being alone,,and it is unnatural ....but its nothing you can do. There is simply not enough good or decent women and the environment's affected by feminism which is very anti-male.

Sad thing is I went abroad to China where its much the same to me - I had brought much of my bad habits and damage and conditioning over there. Doesht help Chinese women are the most xenophobic dating group out there, and they despise and distrust white men .....so yea that was fun.

You're right man, and I feel your pain. I've constantly said that I could get a girlfriend within a week of being abroad...but of course was told over again "you don't know how"...you wouldn't there, why can't you here? Typical American bullshit.. seeks to shame you.

I thought there was something wrong with me, being here. But I know there is not.

Now there are toms of women that want to 'jump my bones' but I discern them, and don't give them the time as most of them are too young, stupid..bas relationship material, or used up trash.

I wanted a relationship for the longest time, and didn't have one so I gave up. That was in my twenties. Its very sad. Not to mention porn,,the environment in general is anti relationship.

Its a very depressing place to be. I think the US killed me. Once a mans drive shuts down, he shuts down, because procreation is such a hard wired part of life.
Of course the 1, 2 punch of getting blamed and shamed and invalidated for your feelings, and being around a completely ignorant populace has made me filled with hatred, bitterness.



Luck to you man. I'm still trying to go overseas while I'm 30.
Misery and happiness are only states of mind.

Eric
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Re: The "friend zone" and never having dated in college

Post by Eric » June 15th, 2017, 1:48 pm

I've felt like this too. Its because the dating scene sucks, and everything sucks here, there are very few non-messed up women...and overall the whole culture is very social-engineered to be as non normal for dating as basically possible; while advocating to completely separate the sex act from anything else, hence you have a very unnatural "hookup culture". Which is scary, because it shows that a anything can sink in.


I have had the same feelings why did I not date enough. But I knew it was this place...still doesn't help at all, it's a good place for hooking with girls but that's not what I want. I knew that I was being socially engineered and that's one of the biggest reasons for my hatred of this place. Parents didn't understand it because their generation had not faced that, so they just laughed and mocked, while I was saying and explaining about it; invalidating me. That's one of the biggest reasons for my seething searing feelings of hatred that grow out of me naturally for America.
I knew staying here would damage me and it has.

The mistake you made that I didn't was that I never had women 'friends'. I don't mix up that way. See, there is a thing called gender and it matters a lot - you must respect that and don't mix it up. Women are for dating and kissing and for sex. I don't make friends with them rarely, unless they are older or undateable.

Now...I've grown wiser and I'm 30, but the same thoughts haunted me. Same situation, tall gl, handsome atletic, few dates ever. Periods of dry spells. I just got used to being alone,,and it is unnatural ....but its nothing you can do. There is simply not enough good or decent women and the environment's very bad and it's affected by feminism which is very anti-male, and the entire thing is very anti-relationship or warm feelings and "coming together" it seems like, there are forces prying apart the natural bonding process of male and female. That's basically a disturbing and frightening reality of what it comes down to.

Sad thing is I went abroad to China where its much the same to me - I had brought much of my bad habits and damage and conditioning over there. Doesht help Chinese women are the most xenophobic and shallow MATERIALIST women on the planet, while most of them are outwardly bitches and they despise and distrust white men, yeah that was fun. Most Chinese men were cucked beyond belief, it seems it's a requisite in their culture.

You're right man, and I feel your pain. I've constantly said that I could get a girlfriend within a week of being abroad...but of course was told over again "you don't know how"...you wouldn't there, why can't you here? Typical American bullshit.. seeks to shame you.

I thought there was something wrong with me, being here. But I know there is not.

Now there are tons of women that want to 'jump my bones' now, but I discern and don't give really any of them the time of day; as most of them are just opportunists, flaky, too young, or stupid..bad relationship material, or you can tell they are used up gutter whores and trash. Sorry to sound bold but no point in not telling the truth.
Most of the women here don't have a 'feminine' feel to them, as most HA'ers have pointed out...and have something of a "nasty" manipulative self-serving
look; as you can literally see the selfishness on their faces. And it is unnattractive, even frightening and intimidating. Yes, the women here are overall intimidating to a good man.
I wanted a relationship for the longest time, and didn't have one so I gave up.I think something inside me bent and got used to an unnatural state of being mostly due to anti male stuff you see in women, etc and a bad, hostile dating scene. That was in my twenties. Its very sad. Not to mention porn,,the environment in general is anti relationship. Like I said, if you feel there's something unnatural about you not getting to date as you should, there is; its not in your head.

Its a very depressing place to be. I think the US killed me. Once a man's drive shuts down, he shuts down, because procreation is such a hard wired part of life.
Of course the 1, 2 punch of getting blamed and shamed and invalidated for your feelings, and being around a completely ignorant populace has made me have a feeling of hate somewhat.
You have to give it to them - the controllers, the job they did breaking apart natural roles of men and women traditions and dating, courtship marriage.
Promotion of endless homosexuality and hookups. Its a real sad world out there. I'm amazed at how far their propaganda has gotten to me. Its really incredible, how they've changed things eradicated traditional culture. They've done a hell of a job when in school to subliminally implanting repetitive messages that culture nd tradition are bad, you're bad for being monogamous, men are bad, ie: feminism, promiscuity is "cool" you're a wimp for being , nice and kind and naturally wanting a girl. They've sought to kill the tenderness in us, while seeking to separate the act of sex from anything else; destroying traditional relationships. The use of mockery is strong and works effectively on human beings, to alter behavior.

Luck to you man. I'm still trying to get out and go overseas while I'm still 30 or 31.


This may coincidentally be the best post on HA I've ever written.,
Last edited by Eric on June 15th, 2017, 2:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Misery and happiness are only states of mind.

Eric
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Re: The "friend zone" and never having dated in college

Post by Eric » June 15th, 2017, 2:15 pm

With the friend -zone thing. It all seems to have to do with the women; all your problems here are caused by women. They learned by feminism to not have relationships or, to seek out men with bling or attributes feminism tells them to. You have to take a class on these women and treat them differently than you do women any other place.
Misery and happiness are only states of mind.

momopi
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Re: The "friend zone" and never having dated in college

Post by momopi » June 15th, 2017, 11:39 pm

It goes something like this. Nice guy goes to church and get friend zoned. Nice guy's friend with tattoos, piercing and motorcycle gets invited to church and the girls come running. Nice guy doesn't understand why his friend attracts girls like shooting fish in a barrel.

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Cornfed
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Re: The "friend zone" and never having dated in college

Post by Cornfed » June 15th, 2017, 11:44 pm

momopi wrote:It goes something like this. Nice guy goes to church and get friend zoned. Nice guy's friend with tattoos, piercing and motorcycle gets invited to church and the girls come running. Nice guy doesn't understand why his friend attracts girls like shooting fish in a barrel.
Hopefully the nice guys will read forums like this so they can understand the evolutionary dynamics of the situation.

Eric
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Re: The "friend zone" and never having dated in college

Post by Eric » June 16th, 2017, 2:16 am

Yes. Evolution of the society, and the dynamics.
Misery and happiness are only states of mind.

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Cornfed
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Re: The "friend zone" and never having dated in college

Post by Cornfed » June 16th, 2017, 2:34 am

Eric wrote:Yes. Evolution of the society, and the dynamics.
Basically the formula is: The regime pays for females and children => r-selected scum have a reproductive advantage => females will be attracted to scum. Simple as that.

Falcon
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Re: The "friend zone" and never having dated in college

Post by Falcon » June 16th, 2017, 2:44 am

Cornfed wrote:
Eric wrote:Yes. Evolution of the society, and the dynamics.
Basically the formula is: The regime pays for females and children => r-selected scum have a reproductive advantage => females will be attracted to scum. Simple as that.
In case some of you are wondering what r-selected scum means:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R/K_selection_theory

Image

A litter of mice with their mother. The reproduction of mice follows an r-selection strategy, with many offspring, short gestation, less parental care, and a short time until sexual maturity.

Falcon
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Re: The "friend zone" and never having dated in college

Post by Falcon » June 16th, 2017, 2:51 am

momopi wrote:It goes something like this. Nice guy goes to church and get friend zoned. Nice guy's friend with tattoos, piercing and motorcycle gets invited to church and the girls come running. Nice guy doesn't understand why his friend attracts girls like shooting fish in a barrel.
Yes, but I would say that this is more of a developed world phenomenon, where irresponsibility has fewer negative social or economic consequences. This is less likely to happen in places like China where many women would not have anything to do with men showing the slightest signs of irresponsibility, and in many women over the age of 25.

In other places, the nice, innocent guy would likely be attracting girls like shooting fish in a barrel, especially if the women are looking for suitable marriage partners.

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Re: The "friend zone" and never having dated in college

Post by momopi » June 16th, 2017, 5:31 am

Falcon wrote:
momopi wrote:It goes something like this. Nice guy goes to church and get friend zoned. Nice guy's friend with tattoos, piercing and motorcycle gets invited to church and the girls come running. Nice guy doesn't understand why his friend attracts girls like shooting fish in a barrel.
Yes, but I would say that this is more of a developed world phenomenon, where irresponsibility has fewer negative social or economic consequences. This is less likely to happen in places like China where many women would not have anything to do with men showing the slightest signs of irresponsibility, and in many women over the age of 25.

In other places, the nice, innocent guy would likely be attracting girls like shooting fish in a barrel, especially if the women are looking for suitable marriage partners.

The nice guy asks "there's nothing wrong with me, why are women more attracted to my biker friend?

The women from church replied, "the fact that there is nothing wrong with you is the problem".

As James Dean once said, "live fast, die young, and leave a beautiful corpse." That was 1950's and girls went crazy over him.

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Cornfed
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Re: The "friend zone" and never having dated in college

Post by Cornfed » June 16th, 2017, 5:50 am

momopi wrote:The nice guy asks "there's nothing wrong with me, why are women more attracted to my biker friend?

The women from church replied, "the fact that there is nothing wrong with you is the problem".
Yes.
As James Dean once said, "live fast, die young, and leave a beautiful corpse." That was 1950's and girls went crazy over him.
The girls went wild over actors who played functional, non-degenerate characters as well. They probably found James Dean attractive for traditional reasons, not just degeneracy.

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Re: The "friend zone" and never having dated in college

Post by Falcon » June 16th, 2017, 8:43 am

Momopi, how many Taiwanese women and mainland Chinese are like this? There do seem to be some, but not an awful lot of them. I get the feeling that middle-class Taiwanese, known for their very practical and straight-thinking behavior, generally don't want to mess up at all.

My parents and their peers take it for granted that people in the community just aren't going to mess up. They raise and shelter their kids so perfectly that they end up facing these problems in adulthood, such as being clueless and unable to date normally like their other peers.

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Re: The "friend zone" and never having dated in college

Post by momopi » June 16th, 2017, 4:43 pm

Falcon wrote:Momopi, how many Taiwanese women and mainland Chinese are like this? There do seem to be some, but not an awful lot of them. I get the feeling that middle-class Taiwanese, known for their very practical and straight-thinking behavior, generally don't want to mess up at all.

My parents and their peers take it for granted that people in the community just aren't going to mess up. They raise and shelter their kids so perfectly that they end up facing these problems in adulthood, such as being clueless and unable to date normally like their other peers.

To clarify, we are talking about your experience with girls in the US during your school years.

I did not attend HS/college in Taiwan/China and cannot commment on the experience. When I was dating my ex fiancé in Taiwan she was already 27 (I was 33 or 34) and had different expectations at her age.

In high school I had shoulder length hair and wore black leathers. Bought a cherry red mustang with intention to take girls to the beach. Ended up working all weekend pushing shopping carts at $3.25 or $3.35/hr to pay for it.

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Re: The "friend zone" and never having dated in college

Post by MrMan » June 18th, 2017, 8:34 pm

I barely dated in college, if you could call it that. When I graduated, I went to South Korea, where I did get some interest from some women and started dating a bit. When I was in Indonesia in my mid-to-late-20's, I could tell a lot of girls liked me. Some showed interest directly. Others gave off signals. I spoke briefly to a young woman on the bus. She gave me her business card. A fat girl with short hair would always hit on me at the department store at the mall that had clothes and shoes that actually fit me. I told her I needed to go home. She asked if she could join me. Girls would make eyes at me. One girl on the bus, shortly into a conversation about her work as a kindergarten teacher, asked me how I handled my libido.

I think being 26 is better for starting a relationship with a 22-year-old Asian girl... in Asia... than being 22. If you are a college student, you aren't quite ready to get married. You might be a decent prospect, but you aren't quite there yet. But if you are 26 and working, and you have a job that pays better than most people around you (e.g. English teacher in Southeast Asia), and you are 'exotic looking' (e.g. white man in Asia) and tall, women are going to be more interested in you.

In the US,you have to be 'cool' or whatever to get some girls interested in you. Asians tend to be nerds, depending on where you are living. Being cool doesn't matter as much. In the US, you may have to have some 'game' or just be bold enough to tell a girl whose about to friend-zone you that you find her attractive and want to date her, have a relationship, or whatever. Asian American girls are influenced by the dominant US culture in how they think about this.

I noticed in Indonesia, that I'd see a young man and young woman go everywhere together and call themselves 'friends'-- not 'boyfriend' and 'girlfriend.' Then, the couple announced an engagement. Then, I'd see couples doing the same thing and other people would ask them when they were going to get married. I don't think they have a category for two young single people who aren't related just 'hanging out' and being friends.

I used to go into Jakarta from the suburb where I lived to go to church. There was a young woman in the town I lived in who wanted to go with me. People assumed we were dating. I just considered her a friend. She wasn't bad-looking either, better than average probably, but just didn't really interest me. But the people at the church meeting I went to just didn't really get the idea of two friends going to the same place together. It turns out the girl liked me, which was why she wanted to go there with me.

I went home for Christmas. One girl from church I hadn't spent much time with sent some kind of little gift for my mom. I had an older Chinese-looking friend who was really, really good-looking, like a 9+, who was older than I was. She was clear that we were 'just friends' and had her reasons related to another man she was interested in. But I could tell there were feelings there at some point. Anyway, she eventually gave me this plant holder thing to give to my mom. I was a bit upset because I'd got my luggage down to one carryon and a personal bag so I wouldn't have to check any baggage, and she brought me a plant holder thing at the airport, so I wouldn't have a free hand. I didn't check it.

Later, I was talking about girls giving presents to my mom. My mom? They didn't know her? Why are these girls giving presents to my mom? An Indonesian explained it probably meant a girl was probably hoping we'd date, get married, and she'd have already warmed up her mother-in-law with a gift. That was probably the case. The very pretty slightly older friend I'd spent a lot of time with who sent the plant holder probably sent that gift just in case, on the outside chance, we ended up together. I'm glad that didn't happen though, since she had a dominant personality that was difficult to deal with in a friendship, and would have been really rough for me in a marriage. I saw a video clip of her online from a few years back, and, while she looked pretty good for her age, she looked a lot older and less attractive ago than my wife does now.

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