Why is work a religion in America and you are expected to agree as if it were natural?!

[Winston]

Don't you guys hate how work is a religion in America, and your job is your god?! Now I wouldn't mind it so much if people CHOSE to "live to work" or to believe that their "work is a religion". But the thing is, America does NOT give you that choice! America does not ask you "Do you want to live to work? Do you want to become your job? Do you live to serve an employer?" Instead it assumes that "living to work" is a law of the universe and that it's something that YOU WANT too. And that it's the nature of all living things in the universe to get a job and live to work and serve an employer. So it's like an obligation and expectation. Not a choice! That's what pisses me off.

So work in America is not just about paying the bills. Its also a religion, just like in Japan and Singapore. That's why American movies idolize the "do nothing but work and have no other life outside work" as the ideal norm that everyone aspires to. For example in the TV series "The X Files", Fox Mulder and Dana Scully do nothing but work everyday and have no days off and no life outside of work. Not even any relationships other than each other. When they do get a day off, something happens and they are called back to work to investigate.

So you see, living and breathing your work is normal. So is not having any life outside of your work. Work is your God in America. It's your religion. Its your LIFE as well. You are expected to give 110 percent and sacrifice your life for your job. So you see its not just about paying the bills. Its your God. A good person is seen as willing to sacrifice all for their job. And putting their job above all else. Even above God himself. And even above family.

That is what you are supposed to WANT to do in fact without even being told to want it. Lol. America sees this as the law of nature. Not just something you do to get a paycheck and pay the bills. In fact many Americans don't even want to retire. Even if they can. They prefer to work til they die. Because they wouldn't know what to do if they retired.

See the movie "About Schmidt" with Jack Nicholson. In it he is forced to retire and after that he has nothing to do. His life seems so empty after retirement. So he looks bored and depressed since he doesn't know what to do and has nothing to live for without his job. He doesn't know what to do with his freedom and is empty without his lifelong job. So he has to find a way to go on. That movie represents the mindset of many Americans who don't know what to do without a job, even if they retire and no longer need to work.

But the thing is, I don't understand this american mentality and cant relate to it. Because i have hundreds or hobbies and interests to distract me with that i cant even get to. Its a big mystery to me. Americans are like a different animal than me.

Its even considered noble and honorable and admirable for one to sacrifice his life and all his time and energy in servitude to the corporation that he works for. Just as it is in the US military to sacrifice your life for your country. Its considered a good thing and the right thing to do so. Isn't that sickening? Lol. I've just never been able to relate to this kind of mentality. It's strange and alien and stupid.

In America, your job is also your identity. Not just a way to make a living or earn money. Without a job, it's believed that you have nothing to live for and no purpose or function. As if you are born wanting to serve and employer or corporation. lol. It's ridiculous.

Even mainland Chinese are not this crazy. I heard that in China, people see work as a necessary evil, to earn money and pay bills. It's not a religion to them. They don't delude themselves about it and pretend that work is fun and meaningful and pleasurable. But in Singapore, you are supposed to pretend to love your job and derive pleasure from it. It's a sick lie. Therefore, mainland Chinese live more in reality in this sense. They do not falsely proclaim that their job is their god or that work is their religion. It is what it is, nothing more, nothing less. This is just another way that mainland Chinese are less delusional and more in touch with reality, than Americans and workaholic first world nations.

Do you guys ever think about all this too and how stupid and nonsensical it is? Especially since it's all forced and you aren't even given a choice about it? Doesn't that piss you off? Since it's all forced upon you without your consent? This is yet another way that America is NOT free.

[Winston]

Don't you all hate how a job interviewer in America expects you to walk in and offer your all to your job as if it were your highest aspiration and purpose for living and not just a paycheck? Lol

You all should see that movie "Up in the Air" with George Clooney where he is hired to fire people in corporate America. Every time he does the American cries and whines as though he or she has lost everything and lost all purpose for living. Its sickening and crazy.

Whenever I got fired I always felt happy, free and joyful because now i no longer have any schedule to stick to anymore. Lol. Or pressure to conform too. Lol.

[Winston]

Something i sent to ghost before:

I listened to your voice messages last week. I agree that work is not meant to be fulfilling because if it was, you wouldnt need to be paid for it. Great point.

However, if Americans suffer at work, then how come when they lose their job, they act like the world has ended? In the movie "Up in the Air" with George Clooney, he plays a traveling agent who fires people for employers and discusses their severance package with them, because employers dont want to deal with the tears and sobs themselves. In the movie, every time Clooney tells the person they are fired, they go berzerk and break down and sob.

Wtf?! Why is a job everything to Americans? Why do they obey the "live to work" religion when its stupid and nonsensical? I dont get it. When i got fired or laid off, i was usually ecstatic with joy, because it meant i was free again, to wake up late, sleep late, do what i want, etc. It meant i didnt have to force myself to go into work with a fake mask pretending to be happy everyday. Isnt that a good thing? So why are most americans the opposite? They act like their job is their identity and ultimate source of fulfillment.

Many Americans have told me that their is job is number one to them, above all else, including their relationships. They expected me to think the same way, but i didnt and didnt know how to tell them that i didnt feel that way. Should i lie and pretend that a job is everything to me? Lol. Stupid. Why do you have to lie so much in america? It must be the land of delusion, not the land of the free. Lol

Even college students who havent even graduated yet have told me that they couldn't wait to get out of school so they could start working and making money, so their life could be fulfilled. A job is the ultimate source of fulfillment in America, it seems, and you are supposed to believe that and say that too. How come i dont feel that way but many americans do? I dont get it. Seems stupid.

Did any of you see "Up in the Air"? You should see it to see how stupid Americans are, and how stupid employers are to have to hire George Clooney to do the firing for them.

[droid]

"Up in the Air" goes waay back to 2010 Winston, I almost don't remember the details. I remember watching that all by myself in the chumpzone. The whole theater for me on a thursday night, horrible.

People have a sword hanging over their head with all the debt they incur Winston, it's paycheck to paycheck, that's why their job is like an idol. And to be fair this happens in many other countries, you seem kind of isolated from this since you have some passive income and your parents have some property.

America is the only place though, as far as I know, that someone gets fired and they have to put their crap in a cardboard box immediately, and even a security guy comes to make sure nothing escalates or the person doesn't do anything break anything. Weird AF.

What's up with Ghost? Where is he now?

[kavaking]

I hate the idea of selling myself like some prostitute. A lot of these jobs here have all kinds of politics. They sometimes already have someone picked out, but they still interview people to comply with equal employment laws.

[Winston]

Great observation by ghost in our wechat group:

"Americans especially seem to equate job with identity. Since consumerism replaced community, job also replaced identity. In a consumerist culture your job and money define your identity and worth."

Ethan_sg replied with these profound observations:

"Over here in China many people seem to see their job as a means to an end rather and determinant of their identity - it's a subtle but important difference.

Equating job with identity and replacing community with consumerism is very evident in Singapore too, sadly so.

In China for instance you can see that even the policemen are all pretty laid-back approachable, and come across as just another average everyday kinda guy on the street. In America the cops are bastards, self important, violent, cold and take themselves far too seriously. They are almost inhuman.

Winston and I were at a night club the other day which had a lot of female dancers and pole dancing and we saw that even the security guard and another man on uniform were having a good time smoking and chatting with the girls and taking it easy lol despite technically supposed to being the bouncers of the club. In America bouncers are kinda like cops - self important self - righteous, unapproachable, violent, with a tendency to be "white knights" - discriminate against men and protect women. The atmosphere is so much more tense. Over here even the security guy feels friendly and like someone you could have a drink with at the club. lol

The lack of self importance in the attitudes of the people in China is an indication of how people see themselves as fellow human beings first and foremost, and their jobs merely as a secondary role they have to fulfill in order to make a living. In westernized and modernized countries, people morph into self important automatons behaving as if the only purpose and meaning in their lives is fulfilling their occupational requirements, their "KPIs" ( key performance indicators ) as they like to put it - it's detestable.

Really hate the term KPI, makes me feel like a robot with functions I've been programmed to fulfill."

[Winston]

"Up in the Air" goes waay back to 2010 Winston, I almost don't remember the details. I remember watching that all by myself in the chumpzone. The whole theater for me on a thursday night, horrible.

People have a sword hanging over their head with all the debt they incur Winston, it's paycheck to paycheck, that's why their job is like an idol. And to be fair this happens in many other countries, you seem kind of isolated from this since you have some passive income and your parents have some property.

America is the only place though, as far as I know, that someone gets fired and they have to put their crap in a cardboard box immediately, and even a security guy comes to make sure nothing escalates or the person doesn't do anything break anything. Weird AF.

What's up with Ghost? Where is he now?

But droid, Americans don't just work because they need to pay bills. It's their religion and god too. Work is their identity. Their corporation and employer is what they live to serve. Without it they have no identity or self worth or purpose. So it's a lot more than just about paying bills. It's a religion or cult. It's not just a means to an end or a necessary evil. That's American culture as you know. In Europe they "work to live, not live to work". They see life as being about meaningful experiences and fun and freedom. See the difference?

@Ghost is still in China. He lives near Guangzhou now and teaches English. So we have many HA members in the Guangzhou/Shenzhen area now. Enough for a major meetup and hubspot.

I am trying to get Ghost to come back here, but he is still jaded from the Yick fiasco. He doesn't seem to forgive and forget easily, which is typical of Americans. Once you offend them or cross them, they never forget it. They love to hate eternally. Maybe you can say something to get him to come back? Any message you want to pass on to him?

Here's the IMDB for "Up in the Air" and trailer btw. lol. Ring a bell now?

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1193138/?ref_=nv_sr_1

[jamesbond]

Good points Winston, in America, working is a religion. It's ingrained in us when we are young that 'your job equals your identity'. There are so many workaholics in the United States it's ridiculous and it's encouraged.

Back in the 50's and 60's in the USA, one income could support an entire family. Now it takes two incomes to support a family. I know a few guys at my job who are working TWO FULL TIME JOBS AT THE SAME TIME to support their families!

Here is the funny part, American workers are the most productive workers in the world and yet they get the least amount of time off of any industrialized country in the world. The average American worker gets two weeks vacation a year and 8 paid holidays. In some European countries, they get 6 weeks vacation a year and 12 paid holidays.

A recent study showed that 90% of Americans hate their jobs. No wonder why so many people can't wait until they retire.

[CB8]

Here is the funny part, American workers are the most productive workers in the world and yet they get the least amount of time off of any industrialized country in the world. The average American worker gets two weeks vacation a year and 8 paid holidays. In some European countries, they get 6 weeks vacation a year and 12 paid holidays.

Yes, and Americans think this is acceptable.

I especially hate jobs where you're forced to work on holidays, even if you're getting paid more. My coworkers will say, at least we're getting paid double. All I can think of is, what's the point of getting more money if we can't enjoy it on days like this?

[Adama]

You can give your all to your work. Then one day you can walk in and because the boss has decided that she no longer likes you, she can make up a reason to fire you on the spot over a very trivial matter. It won't matter how many holidays you sacrificed, how many late nights, or how much you've gone out of your way.

I find that some employers practice some kind of unfairness against their employees. One time during a snow storm, I was prevented from exiting and going home at one work place. If you want to keep that job, you'll stay during the snow storm. This is some unfairness that I am talking about.

There's also so much oversight and micromanagement in some jobs that it actually makes doing the job itself nearly impossible, because they put employees under heavy scrutiny.

Then there are back stabbing satanic workers who are sometimes colleagues. These people are searching diligently for any reason to slander you for fun, so they can run back to the boss and get you in trouble, because they delight in hurting people and mischief. And you may never even know that most of your fellow coworkers are searching behind your back for reasons to make fun of you, to turn others against you, to make you look like an incompetent fool, to push their work off onto you, or just speaking some real slanderous words against you for pleasure because they are complete fools. If you're a man, some of the female coworkers may be working behind your back to spread rumors that you're a pervert or a sexual predator, when that is the farthest thing from your mind.

And if the ownership of the business changes, or if they hire a supervisor over you who hates your guts for no reason, say goodbye to that job which you've had for years.

Working for the man or the woman is about 1000 times worse than high school, as far as I am concerned. Basically I've learned to expect heaps of disrespect in exchange for slavery. And they will enjoy putting you through hell, just so you can earn a meager paycheck. Make no mistake, some supervisors delight in writing people up and firing them. It brings them pleasure which they can barely contain. That is power to destroy, and some people have fallen in love with it, because they are near sociopathic.

During the job interview the evil ones will expect you to volunteer over your life, then they will claim poverty so they can underpay you. That's the first act of disrespect right there.

[Adama]

Something i sent to ghost before:

I listened to your voice messages last week. I agree that work is not meant to be fulfilling because if it was, you wouldnt need to be paid for it. Great point.

However, if Americans suffer at work, then how come when they lose their job, they act like the world has ended? In the movie "Up in the Air" with George Clooney, he plays a traveling agent who fires people for employers and discusses their severance package with them, because employers dont want to deal with the tears and sobs themselves. In the movie, every time Clooney tells the person they are fired, they go berzerk and break down and sob.

Wtf?! Why is a job everything to Americans? Why do they obey the "live to work" religion when its stupid and nonsensical? I dont get it. When i got fired or laid off, i was usually ecstatic with joy, because it meant i was free again, to wake up late, sleep late, do what i want, etc. It meant i didnt have to force myself to go into work with a fake mask pretending to be happy everyday. Isnt that a good thing? So why are most americans the opposite? They act like their job is their identity and ultimate source of fulfillment.

Many Americans have told me that their is job is number one to them, above all else, including their relationships. They expected me to think the same way, but i didnt and didnt know how to tell them that i didnt feel that way. Should i lie and pretend that a job is everything to me? Lol. Stupid. Why do you have to lie so much in america? It must be the land of delusion, not the land of the free. Lol

Even college students who havent even graduated yet have told me that they couldn't wait to get out of school so they could start working and making money, so their life could be fulfilled. A job is the ultimate source of fulfillment in America, it seems, and you are supposed to believe that and say that too. How come i dont feel that way but many americans do? I dont get it. Seems stupid.

Did any of you see "Up in the Air"? You should see it to see how stupid Americans are, and how stupid employers are to have to hire George Clooney to do the firing for them.

Well first they trick you into believing that you have to become a wage slave. That means university, which means student loan debt. This debt will interfere with the person's independence, as they won't be able to rent a home or purchase a home because of the magnitude of the debt. The debt payment is likely to be too high for lenders to give them a chance.

Then of course because we didn't learn how to save money (or maybe because the parents don't really care that much about their children), we buy cars we can't afford, that put us in debt.

So we must work to pay off the stupid student loans, and for the car which we lusted after, because of our lack of knowledge, and because we were deceived by society into lusting over possessions that don't bring profit.

It's like starting off in a hole. And they tell you it will be okay because you'll make enough to get out of the hole easily. But unless you commit yourself to being a slave and you're very good with money (unlikely as this knowledge is hidden from most people in this materialistic culture), you're going to stay stuck in this narrow pit.

And then if you are stuck in a certain mindset and dealing with a certain low class type of woman, they will insist that you have all these expensive things before they give you a chance. Like an apartment, a very nice car, etc., when they don't necessarily have jack themselves, and they've been with tons of men.

And how do you get a job to get an apartment or a house without going to college? And how do you go to college without incurring soul crushing debt? It's a treadmill of slavery and destruction, like a hamster or rodent.

However, God is able to rescue us from such slavery, for those He favors.

[jamesbond]

I especially hate jobs where you're forced to work on holidays, even if you're getting paid more. My coworkers will say, at least we're getting paid double. All I can think of is, what's the point of getting more money if we can't enjoy it on days like this?

I have had jobs like that where I had to work on Christmas and Thanksgiving. Yes, we were getting double time but who cares, I would rather be with my family during the holidays.

It's funny how employers act like they own you when you work for them. And in a way, they do own you, it's sad but true!

[OutWest]

Something i sent to ghost before:

I listened to your voice messages last week. I agree that work is not meant to be fulfilling because if it was, you wouldnt need to be paid for it. Great point.

However, if Americans suffer at work, then how come when they lose their job, they act like the world has ended? In the movie "Up in the Air" with George Clooney, he plays a traveling agent who fires people for employers and discusses their severance package with them, because employers dont want to deal with the tears and sobs themselves. In the movie, every time Clooney tells the person they are fired, they go berzerk and break down and sob.

Wtf?! Why is a job everything to Americans? Why do they obey the "live to work" religion when its stupid and nonsensical? I dont get it. When i got fired or laid off, i was usually ecstatic with joy, because it meant i was free again, to wake up late, sleep late, do what i want, etc. It meant i didnt have to force myself to go into work with a fake mask pretending to be happy everyday. Isnt that a good thing? So why are most americans the opposite? They act like their job is their identity and ultimate source of fulfillment.

Many Americans have told me that their is job is number one to them, above all else, including their relationships. They expected me to think the same way, but i didnt and didnt know how to tell them that i didnt feel that way. Should i lie and pretend that a job is everything to me? Lol. Stupid. Why do you have to lie so much in america? It must be the land of delusion, not the land of the free. Lol

Even college students who havent even graduated yet have told me that they couldn't wait to get out of school so they could start working and making money, so their life could be fulfilled. A job is the ultimate source of fulfillment in America, it seems, and you are supposed to believe that and say that too. How come i dont feel that way but many americans do? I dont get it. Seems stupid.

Did any of you see "Up in the Air"? You should see it to see how stupid Americans are, and how stupid employers are to have to hire George Clooney to do the firing for them.

Well first they trick you into believing that you have to become a wage slave. That means university, which means student loan debt. This debt will interfere with the person's independence, as they won't be able to rent a home or purchase a home because of the magnitude of the debt. The debt payment is likely to be too high for lenders to give them a chance.

Then of course because we didn't learn how to save money (or maybe because the parents don't really care that much about their children), we buy cars we can't afford, that put us in debt.

So we must work to pay off the stupid student loans, and for the car which we lusted after, because of our lack of knowledge, and because we were deceived by society into lusting over possessions that don't bring profit.

It's like starting off in a hole. And they tell you it will be okay because you'll make enough to get out of the hole easily. But unless you commit yourself to being a slave and you're very good with money (unlikely as this knowledge is hidden from most people in this materialistic culture), you're going to stay stuck in this narrow pit.

And then if you are stuck in a certain mindset and dealing with a certain low class type of woman, they will insist that you have all these expensive things before they give you a chance. Like an apartment, a very nice car, etc., when they don't necessarily have jack themselves, and they've been with tons of men.

And how do you get a job to get an apartment or a house without going to college? And how do you go to college without incurring soul crushing debt? It's a treadmill of slavery and destruction, like a hamster or rodent.

However, God is able to rescue us from such slavery, for those He favors.

The student debt scam is criminal. You often have young people graduating from a private college or university with easily $100,000 in debt or more. They are crippled from the start. For the same money they might have good equity in 3 or 4 rental houses with a decent monthly net that will only grow over time. I know a young married couple in Oregon where the new bride recently inherited a good chunk of money. I really encouraged them to think think think, and get good advice. Cross vacations off the list. Don't go back to that private University...YET. 6 months latter they have one decent house that they live in paid for 100% and two decent rentals close by both paid for 100%, all in an appreciating real estate market. At this point they have great breathing room to plan and decide what is most important to them and they are escaping the debt/wage slave trap. They are able to take a month off this coming summer and go sailing with us up around Vancouver Island. Whatever the route, the debt/wage slave trap is a death sentence. I think Fred Reed said it well...the is more to life than American suburban debt service.

[Adama]

Something i sent to ghost before:

I listened to your voice messages last week. I agree that work is not meant to be fulfilling because if it was, you wouldnt need to be paid for it. Great point.

However, if Americans suffer at work, then how come when they lose their job, they act like the world has ended? In the movie "Up in the Air" with George Clooney, he plays a traveling agent who fires people for employers and discusses their severance package with them, because employers dont want to deal with the tears and sobs themselves. In the movie, every time Clooney tells the person they are fired, they go berzerk and break down and sob.

Wtf?! Why is a job everything to Americans? Why do they obey the "live to work" religion when its stupid and nonsensical? I dont get it. When i got fired or laid off, i was usually ecstatic with joy, because it meant i was free again, to wake up late, sleep late, do what i want, etc. It meant i didnt have to force myself to go into work with a fake mask pretending to be happy everyday. Isnt that a good thing? So why are most americans the opposite? They act like their job is their identity and ultimate source of fulfillment.

Many Americans have told me that their is job is number one to them, above all else, including their relationships. They expected me to think the same way, but i didnt and didnt know how to tell them that i didnt feel that way. Should i lie and pretend that a job is everything to me? Lol. Stupid. Why do you have to lie so much in america? It must be the land of delusion, not the land of the free. Lol

Even college students who havent even graduated yet have told me that they couldn't wait to get out of school so they could start working and making money, so their life could be fulfilled. A job is the ultimate source of fulfillment in America, it seems, and you are supposed to believe that and say that too. How come i dont feel that way but many americans do? I dont get it. Seems stupid.

Did any of you see "Up in the Air"? You should see it to see how stupid Americans are, and how stupid employers are to have to hire George Clooney to do the firing for them.

Well first they trick you into believing that you have to become a wage slave. That means university, which means student loan debt. This debt will interfere with the person's independence, as they won't be able to rent a home or purchase a home because of the magnitude of the debt. The debt payment is likely to be too high for lenders to give them a chance.

Then of course because we didn't learn how to save money (or maybe because the parents don't really care that much about their children), we buy cars we can't afford, that put us in debt.

So we must work to pay off the stupid student loans, and for the car which we lusted after, because of our lack of knowledge, and because we were deceived by society into lusting over possessions that don't bring profit.

It's like starting off in a hole. And they tell you it will be okay because you'll make enough to get out of the hole easily. But unless you commit yourself to being a slave and you're very good with money (unlikely as this knowledge is hidden from most people in this materialistic culture), you're going to stay stuck in this narrow pit.

And then if you are stuck in a certain mindset and dealing with a certain low class type of woman, they will insist that you have all these expensive things before they give you a chance. Like an apartment, a very nice car, etc., when they don't necessarily have jack themselves, and they've been with tons of men.

And how do you get a job to get an apartment or a house without going to college? And how do you go to college without incurring soul crushing debt? It's a treadmill of slavery and destruction, like a hamster or rodent.

However, God is able to rescue us from such slavery, for those He favors.

The student debt scam is criminal. You often have young people graduating from a private college or university with easily $100,000 in debt or more. They are crippled from the start. For the same money they might have good equity in 3 or 4 rental houses with a decent monthly net that will only grow over time. I know a young married couple in Oregon where the new bride recently inherited a good chunk of money. I really encouraged them to think think think, and get good advice. Cross vacations off the list. Don't go back to that private University...YET. 6 months latter they have one decent house that they live in paid for 100% and two decent rentals close by both paid for 100%, all in an appreciating real estate market. At this point they have great breathing room to plan and decide what is most important to them and they are escaping the debt/wage slave trap. They are able to take a month off this coming summer and go sailing with us up around Vancouver Island. Whatever the route, the debt/wage slave trap is a death sentence. I think Fred Reed said it well...the is more to life than American suburban debt service.

May the God of righteousness bless you, for this kindness: for speaking the truth and giving wise counsel, and for not using your position as an opportunity to deceive or to further destroy the poor and the innocent.

[Winston]

Did you guys know that in Japan, the corporation or company you work for is like your God, and the colleagues are like your family? Such a relationship in Japan is supposed to be lifelong. So it's a lifelong relationship. And you are expected to be glad to work 15 hour days for the company and give them your all. In return you get good benefits of course such as full healthcare, pensions, good salaries and stuff. But it's not worth it if you have no freedom or free time at all to enjoy your life. It's a total subservient relationship and you are supposed to love it and cherish it as your own God and family. lol. It's utterly insane.

My point is that being a workaholic or living to work should be a free choice, if someone loves their job so much that they want to live and breathe it, that should be their CHOICE. It shouldn't be an obligation or expectation as though that were the law of the universe. lol. That's stupid. Of course, if you are doing what you love and doing work that you are passionate about, that would be easy to put your all into. But I don't think most Americans are doing what they love, they just pretend to because American culture requires you to feign positivity at all times, even if it's fake. So they have to pretend to love their job because one must act positive at all times in America. It's a rule and religion.

Also, America is seen as the world. There's no life outside of America so leaving America isn't an option to even consider. So even alternative media and truthers never mention that the option to leave America even exists. Very weird.