Muh Genes, Muh Genes, I Jus' Gotta Pass On Muh Genes!

[Contrarian Expatriate]

There has been a lively discussion on another thread about certain members who are obsessed with "Passing on muh genes" and others who have a much better understanding of ridiculousness of such efforts.

If you think that your genes will forever end if you don't have children, I have to refute this common myth. Heaps of your genes will live on if you have siblings with children or even cousins with children. However, after a few generations the vast most of your genes are diluted into irrelevance anyhow. There is just one single strand of DNA that stays constant thru the males in each generation and one single strand that stays constant thru the females. The "gone in the genepool" forever myth is designed to shame people into having children. It only tends to work to convince morons.

Some of the most accomplished and impressive people in the world.....

-Had no children and lived life to the fullest (Nikola Tesla, Mother Theresa, Pat Buchanan, J Edgar Hoover, Leonardo Da Vinci, Elizabeth Dole, Queen Elizabeth, Hugh Grant! http://www.childfreebychoice.com/history.htm
-or-
-Produced children who were very disappointing and not at all reflective of their high quality.
Ronald Reagan produced Ron Reagan who is an effeminate male feminist, Jimmy Carter produced Amy Carter who is ugly and a college fail-out, Whitney Houston and Bobby Brown produced Bobbi Kristina Brown who was a drug addicted headcase who died very young, Carol Burnett produced Carrie Hamilton who was a drug addict and headcase, Magic Johnson produced EJ Johnson who is a cross dressing fruit loop. The list goes on and on.

Magic Johnson's world class athletic genes produced this:


Bruce Willis and Demi Moore world class looks and talent jointly produced this:


So trust me when I tell you that obsessing about passing on one's "good genes" is a fool's game because your genes express themselves differently with each generation and a genius can produce a feeble-minded Cornfed just as a world class athlete can produce an uncoordinated bookworm with two left feet. Crap shoot at best.

Have kids only because you enjoy RAISING THEM, not to pass on your genes. If not, you'll regret that they did not turn out the way you wanted or that they think differently than you, or that they are a big disappointment. 21 years of expense, worry, inconvenience, and toil is not worth "I jus' wanna pass on muh genes." The world will survive quite well without the "but muh genes" crowd I can assure you.

I'll go further and say that anyone in the "but muh genes" crowd is telegraphing that they would be horrible parents who think that kids succeed based on their genetics, not great parenting. So these are the people who should LEAST likely have children because they think that simply having the kids and letting "muh genes" go to work is the hard part.

[Shemp]

...a genius can produce a feeble-minded Cornfed...

[Edit: moved from other thread]

Works the other way too. And I don't think Cornfed is feeble minded, just wrong-minded, since it's evident from his postings that he has very high verbal skills. Maybe if he added a little genetic diversity by mating with a woman from Haiti or Africa in search of green card, the resulting offspring might be excellent genetic quality. Rearing the child and influencing his/her mind is precisely what we don't want Cornfed to do. Just let him contribute genes and child support. The result might be a great athlete, genius and good-looking leader rolled into one.

For the genes-obsessed people, note that 98% of genes are in common with apes, 90% in common with cockroaches and upwards of 99% with other humans. Most genes are for underlying cellular processes, not skin color and shape of the nose and other superficial things. It will be easy in the future to reproduce someone very similar genetically to me by laboratory genetic manipulation, if the world really needs another human just like me genetically for some reason.

As CE writes, the only sane reason for having children is because you personally want to have them, and especially to raise them, not because you want to preserve your particular combination of genes, which is a doomed effort, as he correctly argues. Also, the idea that humanity needs your particular combination is megalomania.

[MarcosZeitola]

-Had no children and lived life to the fullest (Nikola Tesla, Mother Theresa, Pat Buchanan, J Edgar Hoover, Leonardo Da Vinci, Elizabeth Dole, Queen Elizabeth, Hugh Grant! http://www.childfreebychoice.com/history.htm

Hugh Grant is actually married now and has five kids. A lot of rich bachelors like him and George Clooney change their minds later on. It's quite common. You might be one of them. Contrarian Expatriate; you indicate no desire to ever marry and abandon your MGTOW views but you mentioned many times you may sire children at some point for other reasons. Our senior member Yohan is also a self-described MGTOW yet he is married, a father and grandfather.

Life is short. We all try to give meaning to it, in our own way. Some men do so by trying to acquire as much wealth as possible, others by acquiring as many sexual partners, others by spreading their seed far and wide, and yet others try to make some sort of discovery, explore new places, invent new shit or join politics. Some design apps, some marry the love of their life, others marry their careers, some do a combination of these things and some just give up. And then, we all die, one way or another. And that's it. That's all there is to it.

I have gotten married and fathered, as of now, three children. I have two children outside of my marriage as well, born prior to meeting my wife. So I have five biological children in total as of this moment. I don't think any of them will save the world, discover the cure for cancer, win a Nobel Peace Prize... and I couldn't care less, frankly. Having a family gives me, personally, joy. It may not give you joy. It may not give Shemp/Retiredfrank joy. It may not give HouseMD or Rock or Ladislav or any of our forums other childless/childfree members joy... and that's fine. You just do whatever you want wiht your life, it's your life and nobody else's.

For me, watching my children being born into this world and growing up in it, is something that gives me joy. There's no holy or higher purpose to it. I am not doing it to please the Lord, I am not doing it to save my race (they're mixed anyway), I'm not doing it so Lord Xenu or Donald Trump or Rodrigo Duterte or Charles Darwin will be happy. I am doing it for me. The same way you make the choices you make... it's an innately selfish choice, the same way any other choice is, to some degree; there's a selfishness at the basis of the choice to have children. But then, later on, if you are a decent human being and a decent father, your perspective will change... you will carry responsibility for the life you have created. And this will be a driving force in your life from there on out, for better or for worse. In my case I can say with certainty, that it has made me a better person. It helps me. Gives me focus. For other men this isn't the case... maybe they don't need any help. Maybe they don't need to have a family in order for them to have that drive to succeed, that sense of direction. Personally, I am one of the many men in this world who needed it. And I'm not ashamed to admit that.

As for my genes, they're probably pretty good. Not because of my race because I don't really care about my race, or any other race-baiting nonsense... but I'm a tall, well-built man with a good education and a good job. I'm not part of the 1% but I'm not yet thirty and so far I think I'm doing quite well for myself. My children are good-looking and socially well-adjusted. I think they'll do alright in life. They won't be the savior of mankind, and I don't need them to be. But I like knowing that they're in this world. If you think that makes me a basic moronic Neanderthal, so be it. Live and let live.

[Zambales]

A rather conceited obsession in my opinion and it's an issue I've never ever contemplated for one second before. Actually, I've never heard anyone discuss it for that matter apart from on the internet and that was only recently. Perhaps this obsession mushroomed due to Social Media and herd mentality! Similar to the way the alpha-male nonsense has besieged the planet.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

-Had no children and lived life to the fullest (Nikola Tesla, Mother Theresa, Pat Buchanan, J Edgar Hoover, Leonardo Da Vinci, Elizabeth Dole, Queen Elizabeth, Hugh Grant! http://www.childfreebychoice.com/history.htm

Hugh Grant is actually married now and has five kids. A lot of rich bachelors like him and George Clooney change their minds later on. It's quite common. You might be one of them. Contrarian Expatriate; you indicate no desire to ever marry and abandon your MGTOW views but you mentioned many times you may sire children at some point for other reasons. Our senior member Yohan is also a self-described MGTOW yet he is married, a father and grandfather.

Life is short. We all try to give meaning to it, in our own way. Some men do so by trying to acquire as much wealth as possible, others by acquiring as many sexual partners, others by spreading their seed far and wide, and yet others try to make some sort of discovery, explore new places, invent new shit or join politics. Some design apps, some marry the love of their life, others marry their careers, some do a combination of these things and some just give up. And then, we all die, one way or another. And that's it. That's all there is to it.

I have gotten married and fathered, as of now, three children. I have two children outside of my marriage as well, born prior to meeting my wife. So I have five biological children in total as of this moment. I don't think any of them will save the world, discover the cure for cancer, win a Nobel Peace Prize... and I couldn't care less, frankly. Having a family gives me, personally, joy. It may not give you joy. It may not give Shemp/Retiredfrank joy. It may not give HouseMD or Rock or Ladislav or any of our forums other childless/childfree members joy... and that's fine. You just do whatever you want wiht your life, it's your life and nobody else's.

For me, watching my children being born into this world and growing up in it, is something that gives me joy. There's no holy or higher purpose to it. I am not doing it to please the Lord, I am not doing it to save my race (they're mixed anyway), I'm not doing it so Lord Xenu or Donald Trump or Rodrigo Duterte or Charles Darwin will be happy. I am doing it for me. The same way you make the choices you make... it's an innately selfish choice, the same way any other choice is, to some degree; there's a selfishness at the basis of the choice to have children. But then, later on, if you are a decent human being and a decent father, your perspective will change... you will carry responsibility for the life you have created. And this will be a driving force in your life from there on out, for better or for worse. In my case I can say with certainty, that it has made me a better person. It helps me. Gives me focus. For other men this isn't the case... maybe they don't need any help. Maybe they don't need to have a family in order for them to have that drive to succeed, that sense of direction. Personally, I am one of the many men in this world who needed it. And I'm not ashamed to admit that.

As for my genes, they're probably pretty good. Not because of my race because I don't really care about my race, or any other race-baiting nonsense... but I'm a tall, well-built man with a good education and a good job. I'm not part of the 1% but I'm not yet thirty and so far I think I'm doing quite well for myself. My children are good-looking and socially well-adjusted. I think they'll do alright in life. They won't be the savior of mankind, and I don't need them to be. But I like knowing that they're in this world. If you think that makes me a basic moronic Neanderthal, so be it. Live and let live.

I agree with most of what you wrote here, but I do not consider you a moron because you had kids because you enjoy them, not because of some pubescent, obsessive and narcissistic need to pass on your genes. Virtually everyone has imperfect genes with diseases, conditions, and negative things that express themselves every several generations. Someone who is unattractive, short, and unintelligent, might come from an otherwise prestigious family gene pool.

The royal families of Europe learned that lesson the hard way when obsession with their genes produced all kinds of ailments, deformities, and invalids. Read the sad history of Charles II of Spain. He was mentally retarded, odd looking, and sickly all because of his parents who were stupidly obsessed with passing on "Muh Genes." It is a shame that the same difficult lesson must be learned by the dimmest among us yet again.

[MarcosZeitola]

I agree with most of what you wrote here, but I do not consider you a moron because you had kids because you enjoy them, not because of some pubescent, obsessive and narcissistic need to pass on your genes. Virtually everyone has imperfect genes with diseases, conditions, and negative things that express themselves every several generations. Someone who is unattractive, short, and unintelligent, might come from an otherwise prestigious family gene pool.

The royal families of Europe learned that lesson the hard way when obsession with their genes produced all kinds of ailments, deformities, and invalids. Read the sad history of Charles II of Spain. He was mentally retarded, odd looking, and sickly all because of his parents who were stupidly obsessed with passing on "Muh Genes." It is a shame that the same difficult lesson must be learned by the dimmest among us yet again.

Actually with Charles II of Spain, the reason he was mentally retarded and pretty much a monsterous abomination, was because of incest; the Habsburg line had been inbred for many generations, his own mother having married her own uncle producing Charles. Many noble families throughout history as well as ancient and more recent kingdoms as far back as the ancient Egyptians were heavily into incest, which produced a lot of chinless wonders and mentally unbalanced maniacs. I think this is part of why history is as interesting as it, because for so many centuries countries around the world have been led by drooling mongrels.

As for me, I am of European stock and my wife isn't, and as we are very far removed from each other in terms of geography, our genes are quite different from one another, which explains why hybrids and mixed race people often tend to be healthier. If you, CE, for example knocked up a Ukranian chick from a vastly different continent as the one from which you hail, chances are your offspring would be far healthier than it would have been had you knocked up a girl from the same neighborhood or city you grew up in.

You have quite some influence over how your children turn out. If you are healthy and fit, as a man, it probably means the likelihood of your sperm producing good offspring is higher. If you pick a young woman, say early twenties, to have your babies, likewise it's a good choice from a genetic perspective. A lot of the unhealthy, unattractive people that we see being born are the result of men marrying women in their thirties... women who've already 'hit the wall' so to speak, whose eggs are pretty much scrambled and low-quality by that time. Add to that the location factor (you never know if a woman from your city doesn't have a great-grandparent in common with you if your great-grandpa suffered from wandering-dick-syndrome) and you have a recipe for disaster.

Anyone who desires to have children, and has the means to raise them well as well as the proper mindset, should not be discouraged to do so, as it would make such a person miserable not to have them. And anyone who does not desire to have any, should also not be told to reproduce, because a resentful parent will probably not make a good parent. It's as simple as that.

[fschmidt]

In today's idiocracy where almost everyone is a moron, non-morons have a moral obligation to reproduce.

[Cornfed]

In today's idiocracy where almost everyone is a moron, non-morons have a moral obligation to reproduce.

But you can't expect the negro mind to understand the concept of moral obligation and nor should it.

[fschmidt]

But you can't expect the negro mind to understand the concept of moral obligation and nor should it.

I had a discussion today at the mosque with a guy from Ghana about how Christianity and Islam differ regarding moral obligations to slaves, and how Greek philosophy influenced Christianity on this issue, so I guess it depends.

[Cornfed]

But you can't expect the negro mind to understand the concept of moral obligation and nor should it.

I had a discussion today at the mosque with a guy from Ghana about how Christianity and Islam differ regarding moral obligations to slaves, and how Greek philosophy influenced Christianity on this issue, so I guess it depends.

He probably has genes from white chicks captured by Barbary pirates and should pay me reparations.

[Zambales]

In today's idiocracy where almost everyone is a moron, non-morons have a moral obligation to reproduce.

It's more likely for a child to turn into a moron due to the negative influences surrounding them than it is to possess a magic wand and miraculously change a screwed-up world populated with morons. Furthermore, a person who doesn't think they're a moron could be a moron themselves resulting in the probable introduction of more morons.

[Shemp]

In today's idiocracy where almost everyone is a moron, non-morons have a moral obligation to reproduce.

Morality is man's law, not Mother Nature's law (Mother Nature is amoral, the mother of everything, both what men call good and what men call evil) and therefore it has to be enforced with artificial carrots and sticks.

I mentioned in the other thread that, prior to birth control, men like me and CE would be very successful reproducing. This is because some of our personality traits have a significant genetic component, and those traits (intelligence, rationality, self-discipline, willingness to postpone gratification, etc) allow us to accumulate resources over time while remaining in good physical condition, so that we have sexual access to fertile young women when we are middle age and beyond. Without birth control, such sexual access inevitably leads to children. Furthermore, in the past children were an asset to men, and since people like me and CE with the personality traits I listed are always looking to acquire more assets, we would have welcomed children. In particular, sons and sons-in-law constituted a reliable private army in case of disputes, plus all the advantages of business dealings with blood relatives, plus free labor if farming, etc.

In today's society, all this has changed. Birth control means sex, which is what men really want at the biological level, doesn't necessarily imply children. So I would have to want children, in order for me to persuade the woman not to use birth control. But for me to want children, they need to be asset. But children nowadays are more liability than asset. Private armies are no longer a thing. Advantages of business dealings within the family don't come close to compensating for the cost of children. Children no longer act as free workers because we are not running family farms. Throw in the issues of divorce rape and unfair child support judgements and it's no wonder the rational, self-disciplined, long-term oriented men are avoiding children like the plague. Those personality traits, to the extent they are genetic, will thus go extinct, in favor of opposite traits which make men too careless or stupid to use birth control.

Is this immoral? If so, then the immorality is in society, not us men. We are just responding to the system of incentives that was presented to us.

[Cornfed]

In today's idiocracy where almost everyone is a moron, non-morons have a moral obligation to reproduce.

It's more likely for a child to turn into a moron due to the negative influences surrounding them than it is to possess a magic wand and miraculously change a screwed-up world populated with morons. Furthermore, a person who doesn't think they're a moron could be a moron themselves resulting in the probable introduction of more morons.

Yes well it's proven to my satisfaction and that of others that I am not a moron. However my father did appear to be a moron in some respects, but perhaps that is because of the medication he took, but then again his grandchildren might inherit his condition and so functionally be morons like him. On the other hand, it seems like we would be genetic high achievers in sports if it weren't for our small size. It seems that we can really excel in other ways too. When years ago my mother gushed about how my older brother had some famous surgeon write an unsolicited letter to the local medical board to say that he was the most promising young surgeon he had taught in his 30 years as a teaching physician I was like, of course, what do you expect, he was one of us. But I don't know, it is always a crapshoot. You never know what your progeny will be.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Yes well it's proven to my satisfaction and that of others that I am not a moron.

Bullsheit! You might be able to string together few sentences here and there, but your lack of mature reasoning ability, substantive knowledge, and overall life skills are telltale signs of someone markedly UNINTELLIGENT.

However my father did appear to be a moron in some respects......

WELL, IMAGINE THAT!

But perhaps that is because of the medication he took....

Have you considered psychotropic medication under the care of a medical professional? Could be something for you to consider too.....

His grandchildren might inherit his condition and so functionally be morons like him.

Ahhh, your being long unemployed, unloved, unsexed, and one who self-admittedly mopes about the house drinking beer qualifies you as a function moron too.

On the other hand, it seems like we would be genetic high achievers in sports if it weren't for our small size.

Size is not an impediment to high achievement in sports. There have long been smallish, white guys doing very well in sports for years. Steve Largent was 5'11", Mark Price was 6', Muggsy Bogues was 5'3", and Spud Webb was 5'7". During my playing days, it was always the untalented and lazy guys who would use the excuse, "If only I were bigger, I would dominate." The truth is that small, untalented athletes who later have growth spurts become larger, untalented athletes.

You never know what your progeny will be.

Ahh, if you ever burdened the world with your offspring, it is quite predictable how they would turn out. Loser parents who struggle to care for themselves in society generally create loser children. Anomalies exist, but I would not bet on your progeny being much more than you and your father.

I would be extremely concerned for A PET under your care and supervision, let alone a child. People who can't even take care of themselves have no business caring for children. Don't have any children Cornfed, PLEASE JUST DON"T!

[Ghost]

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