Why is loneliness a taboo topic?

[NorthAmericanguy]

In US, young adults are expected to move out and be independent. In other places like Taiwan, children often live at home until they get married. 30-year old grown adult still live at home, with mommy packing their lunch and do their kid's laundry. In case of some of my cousins, who got married in their 30's and had children, they still live with their parents.

It'd be easy for me to tell them to move out and get their own place. But that is difficult to do in places like Taipei because wages are low and housing is expensive. From what I've observed, jobs are actually not hard to find in Taiwan, but the starting pay is something like ~ NT 22,000 per month ($660), plus bonus if you're with a good company. You simply cannot afford your own place unless if your parents helped you financially.

One of my cousins belong to the "god will provide" camp, that is, he volunteers for church for free and the parents provided his allowance. He married a girl from church and now works for church at very low pay. Needless to say, god's provisions = Bank of Mom. It'd be fine if the parents were well off, like couple of my friends in Diamond Bar where they both volunteer for church full time and their wealthy parents paid for a million dollar home when they got married. But my aunt is already in her 60's and not wealthy, so she has to delay her retirement and keep working to support her kids + kid's spouse + grand children. Pretty sad.

I meet up with one of my old school mates in Taipei last week. He told me that his sister moved back to TW (from US) after college and had 47 different jobs in 3 years. Her parents gave up and rented a small apartment for her and gave her a monthly allowance. She'd get a job and spend all her time at work trying to convert her coworkers, until her boss fired her. Rinse and repeat for 3 years.

Me? I have to give my parents money. ;p

I love Diamond Bar... I use to live down the street from Diamond bar high school.

[NorthAmericanguy]

My friend if you are unemployed and living with your parents, you should not be thinking about being with a woman AT ALL right now. You need to place the locomotive before the caboose, but right now you seem focused on obtaining a caboose.

But to respond to your question, our society is oriented towards extroversion, not introversion. Extroverts are expected to develop social networks and to fail to do so is cause to be branded a "loser."

That's a very shallow and judgmental thing to say. Why should a person feel any less of a human being just cause he doesn't have a job? I thought we were all against that type of labeling. As Wayne Dyer said, "If you are what you do, then when you don't, you're not." Why should a person be judged as any better just cause they've secured a contract as a corporate slave? That makes no sense. It should be the opposite.

And why should someone be denied companionship and love just cause they are not employed? Lots of Filipinos are not employed but they still enjoy friends and family and love. Those are things that are NATURAL. Becoming a corporate slave under a contract is ARTIFICIAL.

You are in effect saying that you have to be artificial first before you can have what's natural! That's baloney and insane.

How can you be on a freethinking forum and yet use shallow herd mentality to judge another? You are echoing the mad notion that one should be deprived unless he submits to slavery.

A man has a lot of other qualities besides their work. Sheesh.

I'd rather be a bum and be free than a slave with no freedom.

To Matt:

Since you're in the UK, why don't you take some buses and train to the rest of Europe? It's all in your neighborhood. Can't you just become a backpacker and travel frugally? That will let you meet lots of people.

I agree with both of you guys... But I will admit, money and knowledge is all that matters so you need to start figuring out ways to acquire both of these things very quickly. There is no other way out.

[NorthAmericanguy]

How come it's OK to complain about being unemployed, it's ok to complain about work and money problems but not loneliness. Loneliness in my opinion is a bigger source of stress than all of those things combined. For some reason, if you mention the fact that you're lonely, people are often either reluctant to listen to you, or they don't understand what it's like. Why isn't it widely talked about?

The sort of loneliness I'm talking about here is not lack of a relationship or lack of friends, it's lack of people on my wavelength and lack of female companionship. A lot of the people I have to hang out with I don't have that much in common with and I don't find them interesting or fun. Also, they only ever want to go out drinking. The worst part for me at the moment is only knowing two girls, one with an abusive alcoholic boyfriend though quite decent as a person, and the other having lots of emotional issues and having been going out with ex convicts. People often say that I should go to pubs and clubs more. I have done that, they are the worst possible environments to meet people in. There is an aggressive, loud atmosphere and people often stick within their own tight groups. Overrated, expensive shite. Also, none of the people I know invite me to parties or gatherings meaning that access routes to new people are somewhat sealed off. I have recently taken up salsa dancing and am doing volunteering to try and meet a new, better quality grouping. I've also applied to a TEFL CELTA course, though I'm still waiting for the reply. I am really trying to change things for the better btw.

I should also add that I'm currently unemployed and currently living in my parents place for economic reasons.

The biggest problem of not knowing many girls is that the fear of never finding love has become particularly acute, sometimes giving me sleepless nights. Also the winter is drawing in now and the dark nights make it harder to cope. Has anyone here ever been in a position similar to this? If so, has anyone felt that others don't want to know?

Bro, I don't even know, nor do I even care to even know why it's taboo to talk about loneliness here in the states because I'm focusing on being able to leave this place when I'm good and ready.

[Truthville]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...

I think most of you are missing the point of Mattyman's post. He was asking WHY it's taboo to talk about lonliness, not what to do to rectify it.

Mattyman;

Here in the "States", it's taboo BECAUSE to do so would shatter this false sugary (I'M HAPPY AND FULFILLED) coating most people feel the need to have. They need this, or feel they do, because to admit to being lonely is to admit to being:

1.)Weepy
2.)Whiny
3.)Wimpy
4.)Weird.

In America, IMHO, most people try so hard to fit in and conform to whatever notion they or the people around them have of "normal." Most people will even make themselves unhappy in order to "appear" to be "normal." Sad, really.

Instead of creating and discovering their own defintion of happiness, they, like mindless sheep, lazily let others define what "happiness" is. The trouble is, that just because a certain path makes one person happy, doesn't mean it will make ALL or even another person happy.



I chose to define MY happiness of MY terms. IMHO, every person should take the time to search inward, ask themselves the tough, honest questions, and have the strength to chart their own path to happiness.

I am actually most happy, these days, being solitary. So, in a way, being lonely makes me happy at this point in my life.

[momopi]

I love Diamond Bar... I use to live down the street from Diamond bar high school.

Two of my cousins graduated from Diamond Bar high school. I still have friends and relatives who live there. Funny thing is back in 1980s, Diamond Bar was the pits where the cows roam. Now it's an upscale neighborhood. @_@ Heck look at Irvine, it was all farmland back then.

Did your parents ever take you to Lion Country Safari in Irvine between 1970-1984? Sad that it's long gone along with Marineland of the Pacific. I boycotted Sea World for years out of spite. ;p It's said that Marineland was actually the first major theme park in California, not Disneyland.

http://www.yesterland.com/lioncountry.html
http://www.marinelandofthepacific.org/

[keius]

Nothing taboo about talking about loneliness. I was lonely, single, and celibate for almost 8 bloody years. I had given up on finding the right woman. Too many bad and depressing experiences at the time. Even quit my job and only worked part time or contractor work on the side to make ends meet ..and only when i felt like it.

At the time, my friends and even my parents thought i had become gay
My family thought i was dealing drugs to maintain my (nonexistent) lifestyle. Essentially spent 8 years as an absolute bum living life the way i wanted to live it. I also gambled away my savings and became a heavy drinker My life was my own.

I have alot of fond memories of that time...except for gambling away my life's savings.

Once your shackled with wife and kids, your life isn't really your own anymore....but if you choose to make a lifestyle choice that leaves out family, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as your aren't harming anyone else.

[Winston]

Btw, I love threads with topics like this one. On most forums (other than the love shy forum) no one would ever dare start such a topic and ask such a question. It'd be too demeaning and embarrassing to ask "Why is loneliness such a taboo topic?"

That's what makes this forum unique. Topics are brought up that people on other forums would never dare bring up. lol

Yet they are brought up here like they are a regular natural thing. lol

I love uniqueness and thrive on it!

[Winston]

Nothing taboo about talking about loneliness. I was lonely, single, and celibate for almost 8 bloody years. I had given up on finding the right woman. Too many bad and depressing experiences at the time. Even quit my job and only worked part time or contractor work on the side to make ends meet ..and only when i felt like it.

At the time, my friends and even my parents thought i had become gay
My family thought i was dealing drugs to maintain my (nonexistent) lifestyle. Essentially spent 8 years as an absolute bum living life the way i wanted to live it. I also gambled away my savings and became a heavy drinker My life was my own.

I have alot of fond memories of that time...except for gambling away my life's savings.

Once your shackled with wife and kids, your life isn't really your own anymore....but if you choose to make a lifestyle choice that leaves out family, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that as long as your aren't harming anyone else.

If you don't think it's a taboo topic, then try this. Go to expatexchange.com and into their forum and post this exact same topic, and see what reaction you'll get. You'll be surprised. Then come back and tell us that this isn't a taboo topic.

[zzzz]

I get lonely sometimes but it doesn't last long. Usually by the next time I wake up the feeling has passed, but it can be very intense when you do feel it. I think it is a taboo topic because if you are lonely that somehow makes you unsuccessful or without friends or connections. I don't know.

I know people who moved out and tried their best to gain independence as soon as they hit 18. Often they managed to stay afloat somehow (often getting money from their parents!) but some of the stories I heard make me wonder if it wouldn't have been much smarter for them to stay at home longer. Just the stories of some of the random room mates they had to live with makes me shudder. Many people live with room mates who they often know little about since they can't afford to live alone. How is living with a bunch of random people somehow preferable to living with your own family? Why is that more acceptable socially?

[Winston]

I get lonely sometimes but it doesn't last long. Usually by the next time I wake up the feeling has passed, but it can be very intense when you do feel it. I think it is a taboo topic because if you are lonely that somehow makes you unsuccessful or without friends or connections. I don't know.

I know people who moved out and tried their best to gain independence as soon as they hit 18. Often they managed to stay afloat somehow (often getting money from their parents!) but some of the stories I heard make me wonder if it wouldn't have been much smarter for them to stay at home longer. Just the stories of some of the random room mates they had to live with makes me shudder. Many people live with room mates who they often know little about since they can't afford to live alone. How is living with a bunch of random people somehow preferable to living with your own family? Why is that more acceptable socially?

I don't know. In Asia it's common to live with your parents until you get married. It's not considered a loser thing to do.

I used to get lonely a lot. But nowadays with YouTube and so many documentaries and good films to watch, I can easily get into them and forget about loneliness. The only thing I do get is deflated from lack of the adrenaline rush I get from sex, fun, romance, flirting, women, being with hot girls, etc. That can get me deflated.

In the 80's if you were lonely, you couldn't do anything about it except go out and or call a friend. If that didn't work, then you were toast. All you could do was stay home and be depressed. But nowadays there are so many things you can do online (for every interest category) that you can distract yourself with that you can virtually live online if you want to. lol Scary thought huh? When the internet came out in 1996 I knew that eventually I would lose myself in it and waste tons of time. And that's exactly what happened, since I had no life and no dates.

Nowadays, even if you have no friends, you can go on Facebook and add thousands of friends and try to feel special about it. Crazy huh?

[Jackal]

Do you think Teddy was born that way? Of course not; he had to develop those characteristics just as you develop physical muscles.

That may be partially true, but some are born with certain tendencies and personality traits which make it easier for them to be ambitious and outgoing. Everyone has his limits. You might be able to get someone who is terrified of water to eventually swim, but the odds are he'll never be a Navy SEAL.

He did not say he was depressed and you don't strike me as a physician that can go around diagnosing everyone.

True, he didn't say that he was depressed, but he did say that he was lonely and I don't think it's too radical a conjecture to think that someone who is lonely might also be depressed.

If he wants to cease to be lonely, gainful employment can give him the means to resolving that.

Not necessarily. Some people hate the people at their workplace and still feel lonely.

But anyway, he said he wants to get his TEFL, so he's already taking steps forward. He'll do things when he's ready to do them.

[Winston]

Let me clarify.

Loneliness may or may not be a taboo topic on a forum. But most people would not dare admit that they were lonely to others.

This brings to mind when I was a senior in high school and every week went to this Christian Youth Group meeting during lunch (it was the only place where I could find nice people on campus). One day one of the teachers who hosted the meeting asked us to share our problems with the group so that the rest of the group could pray for the person. When it got to my turn, I said that I was "bored and lonely". The teacher then tried to tell me that boredom was a choice, implying that I was choosing to be bored. What I really wanted to say was that I had no life, no fun, romance, sex, girls, dates, drama, adrenaline rushes, NOTHING GOING ON at all. But I couldn't put it that way, especially in front of everyone. So I didn't know what to say except that I was bored and lonely. After all, who in their right mind would say in a group "I have no life. No fun, no romance, no sex, no dates, no adrenaline rush, no parties, no action, no drama, nothing!" especially to a Christian group?

Nevertheless the teacher didn't know what I meant so he tried to oversimplify my problem by telling me that boredom was a choice and I could choose not to be. That was kind of insulting, but I couldn't tell him what I really meant either.

Pretty lame huh?

[momopi]

In the 80's if you were lonely, you couldn't do anything about it except go out and or call a friend. If that didn't work, then you were toast. All you could do was stay home and be depressed. But nowadays there are so many things you can do online (for every interest category) that you can distract yourself with that you can virtually live online if you want to. lol Scary thought huh? When the internet came out in 1996 I knew that eventually I would lose myself in it and waste tons of time. And that's exactly what happened, since I had no life and no dates.

Nowadays, even if you have no friends, you can go on Facebook and add thousands of friends and try to feel special about it. Crazy huh?

The 1980s was the BBS era, if you were into computers back then, you could've bought a modem and hooked up with many locals. I was the SYSOP of a 10-line BBS with multiple forwarding nodes based in Lakewood, CA. At its peak we had huge pizza parties and rented boat cruises in Long Beach. We started with a smaller 4-line hacked version of WWIV, Wayne Bell wouldn't make a multi-line version so um, some local guys decided to take the matter into their own hands.

By college we had access to usenet, talk/ytalk, then irc, www, etc. After college we had ICQ, which really opened up the international scene.

[NorthAmericanguy]

I love Diamond Bar... I use to live down the street from Diamond bar high school.

Two of my cousins graduated from Diamond Bar high school. I still have friends and relatives who live there. Funny thing is back in 1980s, Diamond Bar was the pits where the cows roam. Now it's an upscale neighborhood. @_@ Heck look at Irvine, it was all farmland back then.

Did your parents ever take you to Lion Country Safari in Irvine between 1970-1984? Sad that it's long gone along with Marineland of the Pacific. I boycotted Sea World for years out of spite. ;p It's said that Marineland was actually the first major theme park in California, not Disneyland.

http://www.yesterland.com/lioncountry.html
http://www.marinelandofthepacific.org/

No way.. Small world. DB high is a good school, they just put in a new track and a turf field for the football team but if you ask me, the dirt track is all you need, and grass cuts down on sport injuries.

And yes, I know about how the cows use the roam that area (they still do around the 57/60 freeway exchange), in fact, they still have the old windmill next to the Bank of America on Diamond bar boulevard.

http://www.ci.diamond-bar.ca.us/index.aspx?page=179


I wonder how The Country came about? I tried to drive through The Country to look at all the million dollar homes but all the entrances have a guard shack.

As far as, parks no I'm 30 years old and I moved to California in 2001 so I missed all the parks you listed; I will say this, I forgot to visit the La Brea tar pits.

[The_Adventurer]

The internet changed everything. This is why I never got into online games. Diablo only allowed 4 people to play together online, and I saw how addicting that was. That was the last online game I ever played. (like in 1996 or so) I can't imagine what it must be like to play World of Warcraft or Final Fantasy with literally millions of real people to interact with. We all know stories of people playing for hours or days without sleep or food.

People can have no social life and live in a game or in Yahoo chat rooms. I was lonely for a time in the US. Not because I didn't have friends, but because many follow a traditional path, get married, have kids and can't hang out like they used to. I simply didn't want to do that. Even if I did, none of the girls I was with (American) would I ever consider marrying. I had already dated foreign girls in my previous travels. Once I started reading this site, I knew my only goal was to move out. Then all my time and effort went into that. It was lonely, but having a major goal and working towards sure feels good!

At that time, my friends would literally show up at my door and drag me out to events or parties. The loneliness was different. I more felt out of place. My mind was already overseas and I remembered how life just flowed better for me in Asia. I'm talking about the 6 years I spent in the US after my first trip to China until this trip started nearly 3 years ago. It's different after you've been out. You can't connect or, more likely, don't want to. You can't talk about something like that. Who will understand but another traveler?