Why is loneliness a taboo topic?

[mattyman]

How come it's OK to complain about being unemployed, it's ok to complain about work and money problems but not loneliness. Loneliness in my opinion is a bigger source of stress than all of those things combined. For some reason, if you mention the fact that you're lonely, people are often either reluctant to listen to you, or they don't understand what it's like. Why isn't it widely talked about?

The sort of loneliness I'm talking about here is not lack of a relationship or lack of friends, it's lack of people on my wavelength and lack of female companionship. A lot of the people I have to hang out with I don't have that much in common with and I don't find them interesting or fun. Also, they only ever want to go out drinking. The worst part for me at the moment is only knowing two girls, one with an abusive alcoholic boyfriend though quite decent as a person, and the other having lots of emotional issues and having been going out with ex convicts. People often say that I should go to pubs and clubs more. I have done that, they are the worst possible environments to meet people in. There is an aggressive, loud atmosphere and people often stick within their own tight groups. Overrated, expensive shite. Also, none of the people I know invite me to parties or gatherings meaning that access routes to new people are somewhat sealed off. I have recently taken up salsa dancing and am doing volunteering to try and meet a new, better quality grouping. I've also applied to a TEFL CELTA course, though I'm still waiting for the reply. I am really trying to change things for the better btw.

I should also add that I'm currently unemployed and currently living in my parents place for economic reasons.

The biggest problem of not knowing many girls is that the fear of never finding love has become particularly acute, sometimes giving me sleepless nights. Also the winter is drawing in now and the dark nights make it harder to cope. Has anyone here ever been in a position similar to this? If so, has anyone felt that others don't want to know?

[BellaRuth]

How come it's OK to complain about being unemployed, it's ok to complain about work and money problems but not loneliness. Loneliness in my opinion is a bigger source of stress than all of those things combined. For some reason, if you mention the fact that you're lonely, people are often either reluctant to listen to you, or they don't understand what it's like. Why isn't it widely talked about?

I'm not sure. When I moved from my rural town I was really, painfully lonely at first. I had to start from scratch there.

Loneliness has been shown to kill people earlier. Humans are social animals. It's a problem that needs to be tackled. I think a lot of people in this modern world drown out loneliness with celebrities, media, Facebook and T.V.

In the UK you will have an easier time if you are a big drinker. I hardly drink at all. I hated turning down well-meaning offers for a drunken night out, but it's not my scene. When I mentioned I was lonely I used to be told 'oh why don't you go out with so-and-so on Friday night'. I wished that there was some other way to socialise. That's the main thing I hate about my country. We have to get drunk to do anything.

You need to meet the right kind of people for you. I met mine through my university course and other courses, jobs (paid and voluntary) and through other people I knew. Gradually it's built up. Just try not to get down about it. You'll be surprised, actually, how many people our age feel the same.

The TEFL and voluntary work sound good. I hope these do help you meet better quality people. Are you doing any field in particular? I like volunteering with either art or the environment. The environmental ones are fun as long as you can cope with hippies

I should also add that I'm currently unemployed and currently living in my parents place for economic reasons.

Pffft, like everyone! I just scored two Christmas temp jobs through friends, but the last year I got nothing. Even Macdonalds rejected me without interview. The UK is in really extreme times. Don't feel ashamed of your circumstances.

Lord knows when/if I will ever get a car or a place of my own.

The biggest problem of not knowing many girls is that the fear of never finding love has become particularly acute, sometimes giving me sleepless nights. Also the winter is drawing in now and the dark nights make it harder to cope.

You ever thought of approaching a foreigner, keeping in mind the theme of this forum? There's enough Eastern Euros to choose from, I think. Cafes are a good place to start. Or you can offer to volunteer at an English teaching class at a local college or university. That will broaden your horizons. Foreigners are less into drink too, thankfully (unless they're Russian)!

[Contrarian Expatriate]

My friend if you are unemployed and living with your parents, you should not be thinking about being with a woman AT ALL right now. You need to place the locomotive before the caboose, but right now you seem focused on obtaining a caboose.

But to respond to your question, our society is oriented towards extroversion, not introversion. Extroverts are expected to develop social networks and to fail to do so is cause to be branded a "loser."

[djfourmoney]

My friend if you are unemployed and living with your parents, you should not be thinking about being with a woman AT ALL right now. You need to place the locomotive before the caboose, but right now you seem focused on obtaining a caboose.

But to respond to your question, our society is oriented towards extroversion, not introversion. Extroverts are expected to develop social networks and to fail to do so is cause to be branded a "loser."

I totally agree with CE, you need to find something that will get you ahead. With no money you can't date locally and you can't visit women overseas, your just dead in the water. Use this site - http://www.careeronestop.org/

Use your downtime to find a career path that agrees with you. I am going the IT Route. It doesn't take long (less than a year) and doesn't require a degree though it does help with some positions, USAID, NATO or UN for example.

As for finding like minded people, use forums, Facebook, etc. I stopped going to nightclubs and never really did the bar/pub thing. For me is very rare but for many people they don't know how to meet other people so they constantly suggest going to clubs and bars. A friend of mine years ago killed himself. He was depressed, he was overweight with a dark sense of humor. He couldn't find a GF and eventually it just ate at him, until he decided to hang himself. I love myself too much to do that and while not having a GF is somewhat depressing and I do feel alone, even if I do live at home as well, I don't dwell on it that much. I'm just looking towards the future where I believe this time next year things will be different.

[momopi]

I should also add that I'm currently unemployed and currently living in my parents place for economic reasons.

What is preventing you from improving your current financial situation?

[mattyman]

Thanks everyone for your feedback.

You need to meet the right kind of people for you. I met mine through my university course and other courses, jobs (paid and voluntary) and through other people I knew. Gradually it's built up. Just try not to get down about it. You'll be surprised, actually, how many people our age feel the same.

Thanks Bella for your advice. It's sometimes hard to believe that there are others in a similar boat. There may be people in a far worse situation than me in this respect. You are definitely right about meeting the right kind of people. The salsa class that I've just started is really good. I have in fact started to get to kow a few people there. The great news is that a lot of girls that go are foreign. So yeah, I suppose that I'm starting to meet a better quality of people already.

I do conservation volunteering with the btcv, only one day a week at present. They seem a nice bunch, mostly older people though there are a handful of uni graduates my age that are on the dole, no hippies though. They are a good lot of people to get on with, I enjoy it a lot. I haven't been doing it all that long though, nor have I been doing salsa that long.

As for the TEFL, I won't be starting the CELTA until mid february. I'm looking forward to starting it.

My friend if you are unemployed and living with your parents, you should not be thinking about being with a woman AT ALL right now. You need to place the locomotive before the caboose, but right now you seem focused on obtaining a caboose.

In response to that there are two things; firstly, I am not after a relationship, I'm simply after meeting the right people for me, including more women that are on my wavelength. The way I see it is that a relationship will happen naturally when you meet the right grouping of people, when you're happy with you're own social circumstances, when you meet someone you feel you can really connect with. So my priority is meeting people socially on my wavelength and being satisfied socially. Just knowing more women (that are normal of course, e.g. without alcoholic boyfriends) would be enough. Lack of normal female company is what's unacceptable, not being single. I'm perfectly happy being without a relationship, in fact, the freedom is very welcome. The fear of never finding love is the problem and that stems from insufficient contact with women and with not being with the right people at this moment in time. During times of my life when I have been satisfied socially, that fear goes away.

Secondly, I don't believe that jobs, money or status say what you're like as a person. I think evaluating someone's worth by their circumstances is extremely shallow and crappy. Are people really like this in america? If so it's no wonder the divorce rate is so high. One cultural difference between the UK and the USA is that we don't tend to judge people so much by their status or money. We are more down to earth than that, though some circles are sinking to that level. Having thought about that, I'm really greatful that I live in the UK instead of the USA. It must be absolute f***ing hell to live in the states. I acknowledge that where I am now is just a transient set of circumstances. I don't judge my own worth as a person by it. I've never judged my own worth by circumstances or status, I think it's pretty shallow to base your worth on your circumstances. I base my worth on what I'm like as a person, what my good personality traits are, what I have to offer others.

Anyway, apart from my circumstances, one thing I'm curious to know, is why is loneliness not talked about more widely than it is? There are probably many people out there in circumstances similar to mine, in many cases much worse.

[Winston]

My friend if you are unemployed and living with your parents, you should not be thinking about being with a woman AT ALL right now. You need to place the locomotive before the caboose, but right now you seem focused on obtaining a caboose.

But to respond to your question, our society is oriented towards extroversion, not introversion. Extroverts are expected to develop social networks and to fail to do so is cause to be branded a "loser."

That's a very shallow and judgmental thing to say. Why should a person feel any less of a human being just cause he doesn't have a job? I thought we were all against that type of labeling. As Wayne Dyer said, "If you are what you do, then when you don't, you're not." Why should a person be judged as any better just cause they've secured a contract as a corporate slave? That makes no sense. It should be the opposite.

And why should someone be denied companionship and love just cause they are not employed? Lots of Filipinos are not employed but they still enjoy friends and family and love. Those are things that are NATURAL. Becoming a corporate slave under a contract is ARTIFICIAL.

You are in effect saying that you have to be artificial first before you can have what's natural! That's baloney and insane.

How can you be on a freethinking forum and yet use shallow herd mentality to judge another? You are echoing the mad notion that one should be deprived unless he submits to slavery.

A man has a lot of other qualities besides their work. Sheesh.

I'd rather be a bum and be free than a slave with no freedom.

To Matt:

Since you're in the UK, why don't you take some buses and train to the rest of Europe? It's all in your neighborhood. Can't you just become a backpacker and travel frugally? That will let you meet lots of people.

[djfourmoney]

My friend if you are unemployed and living with your parents, you should not be thinking about being with a woman AT ALL right now. You need to place the locomotive before the caboose, but right now you seem focused on obtaining a caboose.

But to respond to your question, our society is oriented towards extroversion, not introversion. Extroverts are expected to develop social networks and to fail to do so is cause to be branded a "loser."

That's a very shallow and judgmental thing to say. Why should a person feel any less of a human being just cause he doesn't have a job? I thought we were all against that type of labeling. As Wayne Dyer said, "If you are what you do, then when you don't, you're not." Why should a person be judged as any better just cause they've secured a contract as a corporate slave? That makes no sense. It should be the opposite.

And why should someone be denied companionship and love just cause they are not employed? Lots of Filipinos are not employed but they still enjoy friends and family and love. Those are things that are NATURAL. Becoming a corporate slave under a contract is ARTIFICIAL.

You are in effect saying that you have to be artificial first before you can have what's natural! That's baloney and insane.

How can you be on a freethinking forum and yet use shallow herd mentality to judge another? You are echoing the mad notion that one should be deprived unless he submits to slavery.

A man has a lot of other qualities besides their work. Sheesh.

I'd rather be a bum and be free than a slave with no freedom.

To Matt:

Since you're in the UK, why don't you take some buses and train to the rest of Europe? It's all in your neighborhood. Can't you just become a backpacker and travel frugally? That will let you meet lots of people.

Unfortunately Winston its the Puritan Work Ethic that dominates American Culture and mainly is a Conservative talking point, equating having a job with self-worth.

Our culture is too far gone to fix it in time for many of us to find attractive, thin women here in abundance.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

My friend if you are unemployed and living with your parents, you should not be thinking about being with a woman AT ALL right now. You need to place the locomotive before the caboose, but right now you seem focused on obtaining a caboose.

But to respond to your question, our society is oriented towards extroversion, not introversion. Extroverts are expected to develop social networks and to fail to do so is cause to be branded a "loser."

That's a very shallow and judgmental thing to say. Why should a person feel any less of a human being just cause he doesn't have a job? I thought we were all against that type of labeling. As Wayne Dyer said, "If you are what you do, then when you don't, you're not." Why should a person be judged as any better just cause they've secured a contract as a corporate slave? That makes no sense. It should be the opposite.

And why should someone be denied companionship and love just cause they are not employed? Lots of Filipinos are not employed but they still enjoy friends and family and love. Those are things that are NATURAL. Becoming a corporate slave under a contract is ARTIFICIAL.

You are in effect saying that you have to be artificial first before you can have what's natural! That's baloney and insane.

How can you be on a freethinking forum and yet use shallow herd mentality to judge another? You are echoing the mad notion that one should be deprived unless he submits to slavery.

A man has a lot of other qualities besides their work. Sheesh.

I'd rather be a bum and be free than a slave with no freedom.

I would have to strongly disagree. I am not about endorsing "pity parties," I am about spurring people into action. If a grown man is in the funk of living at home and feeling sorry for himself, he needs a dose of reality so he can snap out of it. What he does not need is to be coddled and told how non-artificial he is being.

And what is to say that being a productive man is to be an artificial one? If you build homes for a living, are you artificial? No, you build homes and you reap the benefits of it. Have we gotten to the point where expecting men to be men is considered shallow and judgmental? There is no wonder why the Chinese, Indians, and others are leaving the west in the dust. They have expectations to uphold while we make excuses.

I stand firmly by my first statement.

[BellaRuth]

Whilst I don't want to speak for Matt, it's nigh impossible for someone in their early twenties to get a place of their own in the UK right now.

I am pretty well qualified for my age with plenty of work experience and spent 9 months unemployed, even begging places like Macdonalds and Subway to take me on, who wouldn't. Every job I applied for had hundreds of applicants. The only reason I have a job now is because my sister knows the manager, and that's a temporary Christmas job.

A girl about 23 years old committed suicide this year after being rejected from over 200 jobs. It's quite extreme in some areas.

It would be FAR from unusual for a man in his early twenties to be living at home. Matt has ambition, he is doing voluntary work, studying for a future career, so it's not a case of being a loser sitting at home watching TV, as it might seem to Americans.

I also want to comment on how many people on here romanticise the stronger connections people have with their families in other countries, and yet balk when it is demonstrated. I know that in South America, for example, a man can easily live at home throughout his twenties, or until he's married, as a way of saving money and because there's no rush to escape from his family. Independence is wonderful, but you need to be sensible with it.

[Jackal]

I would have to strongly disagree. I am not about endorsing "pity parties," I am about spurring people into action. If a grown man is in the funk of living at home and feeling sorry for himself, he needs a dose of reality so he can snap out of it. What he does not need is to be coddled and told how non-artificial he is being.

Not everyone is a horseridin', gunslingin', rough, tough Teddy Roosevelt clone. Everyone has their limits. You can't just yell at a deeply depressed person and expect them to snap to it and get on with things. Everybody has their own issues which they need to work through. Sometimes people can work things out by talking to others, even if from a distance, the conversation seems to be pointless.

I used to be one of the angry, depressed guys posting here until I moved overseas, so I can relate.

Before I moved to Europe, I was living with my mother (which, by the way, made moving to Europe damn easy: all I had to do was pack and go to the airport. I didn't have to worry about selling a house, a car, or furniture or any of that).

A man has a lot of other qualities besides their work. Sheesh.

I'd rather be a bum and be free than a slave with no freedom.

I agree.

[djfourmoney]

Whilst I don't want to speak for Matt, it's nigh impossible for someone in their early twenties to get a place of their own in the UK right now.

I am pretty well qualified for my age with plenty of work experience and spent 9 months unemployed, even begging places like Mcdonalds and Subway to take me on, who wouldn't. Every job I applied for had hundreds of applicants. The only reason I have a job now is because my sister knows the manager, and that's a temporary Christmas job.

A girl about 23 years old committed suicide this year after being rejected from over 200 jobs. It's quite extreme in some areas.

It would be FAR from unusual for a man in his early twenties to be living at home. Matt has ambition, he is doing voluntary work, studying for a future career, so it's not a case of being a loser sitting at home watching TV, as it might seem to Americans.

I also want to comment on how many people on here romanticise the stronger connections people have with their families in other countries, and yet balk when it is demonstrated. I know that in South America, for example, a man can easily live at home throughout his twenties, or until he's married, as a way of saving money and because there's no rush to escape from his family. Independence is wonderful, but you need to be sensible with it.

I totally agree Bella -

People try to discredit me all the time about living at home, including a pot calling the kettle black moment with a single mother in the US.

Though I have lived elsewhere from home, it shouldn't matter. There are Women returning home as well but nobody talks about that as its okay for a woman to be unemployed, sitting on her ass, largely doing nothing yet men will overlook that and still try and date her.

Another reason I am here is because of what Jackal said, it gives you options! If I want to unplug from American culture I can do so. No homes or cars to get rid of, I would just ship my car over since buying anything I would want in Europe is expensive and some countries like Denmark make it really expensive to own a car. From there just pack my stuff, my cat and exit stage right.

[Contrarian Expatriate]

Not everyone is a horseridin', gunslingin', rough, tough Teddy Roosevelt clone.

Do you think Teddy was born that way? Of course not; he had to develop those characteristics just as you develop physical muscles.

You can't just yell at a deeply depressed person and expect them to snap to it and get on with things.
I used to be one of the angry, depressed guys posting here until I moved overseas, so I can relate.

He did not say he was depressed and you don't strike me as a physician that can go around diagnosing everyone. What he did say is that he is lonely, not depressed. And I maintain that the road to getting out of that funk is to get going with things such as seeking fulfilling employment and obtaining his own residence. If he wants to cease to be lonely, gainful employment can give him the means to resolving that.

If you don't feel you should have to work, that's on you, but let him decide for himself.

[momopi]

In US, young adults are expected to move out and be independent. In other places like Taiwan, children often live at home until they get married. 30-year old grown adult still live at home, with mommy packing their lunch and do their kid's laundry. In case of some of my cousins, who got married in their 30's and had children, they still live with their parents.

It'd be easy for me to tell them to move out and get their own place. But that is difficult to do in places like Taipei because wages are low and housing is expensive. From what I've observed, jobs are actually not hard to find in Taiwan, but the starting pay is something like ~ NT 22,000 per month ($660), plus bonus if you're with a good company. You simply cannot afford your own place unless if your parents helped you financially.

One of my cousins belong to the "god will provide" camp, that is, he volunteers for church for free and the parents provided his allowance. He married a girl from church and now works for church at very low pay. Needless to say, god's provisions = Bank of Mom. It'd be fine if the parents were well off, like couple of my friends in Diamond Bar where they both volunteer for church full time and their wealthy parents paid for a million dollar home when they got married. But my aunt is already in her 60's and not wealthy, so she has to delay her retirement and keep working to support her kids + kid's spouse + grand children. Pretty sad.

I meet up with one of my old school mates in Taipei last week. He told me that his sister moved back to TW (from US) after college and had 47 different jobs in 3 years. Her parents gave up and rented a small apartment for her and gave her a monthly allowance. She'd get a job and spend all her time at work trying to convert her coworkers, until her boss fired her. Rinse and repeat for 3 years.

Me? I have to give my parents money. ;p

[djfourmoney]

In US, young adults are expected to move out and be independent. In other places like Taiwan, children often live at home until they get married. 30-year old grown adult still live at home, with mommy packing their lunch and do their kid's laundry. In case of some of my cousins, who got married in their 30's and had children, they still live with their parents.

It'd be easy for me to tell them to move out and get their own place. But that is difficult to do in places like Taipei because wages are low and housing is expensive. From what I've observed, jobs are actually not hard to find in Taiwan, but the starting pay is something like ~ NT 22,000 per month ($660), plus bonus if you're with a good company. You simply cannot afford your own place unless if your parents helped you financially.

One of my cousins belong to the "god will provide" camp, that is, he volunteers for church for free and the parents provided his allowance. He married a girl from church and now works for church at very low pay. Needless to say, god's provisions = Bank of Mom. It'd be fine if the parents were well off, like couple of my friends in Diamond Bar where they both volunteer for church full time and their wealthy parents paid for a million dollar home when they got married. But my aunt is already in her 60's and not wealthy, so she has to delay her retirement and keep working to support her kids + kid's spouse + grand children. Pretty sad.

I meet up with one of my old school mates in Taipei last week. He told me that his sister moved back to TW (from US) after college and had 47 different jobs in 3 years. Her parents gave up and rented a small apartment for her and gave her a monthly allowance. She'd get a job and spend all her time at work trying to convert her coworkers, until her boss fired her. Rinse and repeat for 3 years.

Me? I have to give my parents money. ;p

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I don't pay rent but I likely should and not for some moral reason, but because I get nickel'ed and dimed to death!