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Seattle Freeze - Can America get any more antisocial?

Vent your rants and raves here about whatever makes you mad, angry or frustrated.

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mattyman
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Seattle Freeze - Can America get any more antisocial?

Post by mattyman » February 28th, 2011, 6:36 pm

Just want to mention that I read an article talking about the Seattle freeze, describing how people in that region of the states are very closed and wary of meeting new people. the important thing is that that area has a maritime climate similar to britain.

I have a question here. I wonder which social environment is more anti-social; Britain or Washington State? I would be curious to know. Funnily enough, I should mention that some have said that they find americans more socially open than brits.

It always baffles me that whenever I try to meet people in public in Britain they all seem SO uncomfortable and unapproachable (especially young people). How come, even when I've been to various classes and voluntary work, people are always distant and want to go their own seperate ways and stick with their own little tight clique. Why are english people so bloody terrified of talking to strangers and including new people in their group?

It sucks that meeting new people is confined to pubs and clubs. It is a form of social exclusion. Why are people, especially young people terrified of having conversations? I absolutely detest it.

The fact that meeting people is limited to pubs and clubs, work, mutual introductions etc. is just too bloody restrictive. It enfuriates me when people say 'join clubs, classes and societies'. I've done that. People just want to have polite chit-chat (at most) then keep to themselves. They don't want to meet new people, be invited out, get to know you or even just bring you into their circle. They just go their own seperate ways. Even if you are persistent, it takes YEARS just to meet a handful of people because of this. I really don't get it. I'm sick to death of it.

Because meeting people is restricted to the channels just mentioned, if you're working at a job where people don't want anything to do with you socially, it's safe to say that you're buggered in some respects (unless you thrive in the bar/club scene). Because of the extreme cliqueyness, if you are in that situation, I that it's fair to call that a form of exclusion from from society. How many people reading this are familiar with such a predicament? You know, it feels like a bit of a dead end.

Question is, when will people stop being so f***ing paranoid and terrified of each other. When will neighbours start talking to each other and inviting each other over? What a depressing society! The weather over here really doesn't help, cloudy a lot of the time.

Just needed to vent that. Anyway, I've just gotten onto the CELTA course to train to be an EFL techer. so far it seems interesting and enjoyable. It looks like I made the right decision. Hoefully I won't need to waste time trying to befriend anti-social troglodytes.

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Post by Winston » February 28th, 2011, 8:06 pm

You've hit it right on the nose. The worst thing about it is that you can't talk about any of this because you are "supposed" to be dumb and asleep and not notice any of this, no matter how obvious it is.

In such anti-social societies, people are engineered not to want connection, but to be private, accumulate wealth, and be dumb. Plus most people are followers by nature. They fear truth, preferring whatever is popular or accepted, whereas we embrace truth. That's what makes us different here. Yes we are more aware than the mainstream. However, we will also feel alienated from the mainstream as well. But once you are awakened and attuned to truth, you never really regret it and never wish you could go back to being ignorant again. This means that truth is priceless. Keep that in mind next time you feel alienated from the mainstream.

Speaking of Seattle, check out my video about the Seattle Freeze:



And here is a revealing short documentary about it that confirms it:

Last edited by Winston on May 26th, 2011, 11:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Winston » February 28th, 2011, 8:13 pm

It wouldn't be so bad if meeting people were restricted to pubs and clubs in America, if those places were ACTUALLY NICE PLACES conducive to meeting people. But they aren't. It's just a cultural stigma that you can meet people in those places, it's not a reality. That's what I hate - the false image of it all that you're not supposed to talk about.
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Post by mattyman » March 1st, 2011, 12:03 am

Very true, it does in some ways feel good to be aware of this though it's quite depressing regarding meeting my emotional needs. How come this is one of the few sites on the internet that sheds light into these problems with western society? I wonder how many years it will be before these issues become more widely talked about and more sites like this emerge?

I like the general aim of this site in promoting the relocation to social environments where there is that sense of community still left. A big problem I think is that in anglo-america, young people are brought up by the media and peer pressure. They have a stereotyping, judgemental attitude drummed into them, they don't get to meet people halfway.

Believe it or not, I'm not the only one who feels this way about society. I've even talked about the social environment with a few of my friends and some of them even agree.
It wouldn't be so bad if meeting people were restricted to pubs and clubs in America, if those places were ACTUALLY NICE PLACES conducive to meeting people. But they aren't. It's just a cultural stigma that you can meet people in those places, it's not a reality. That's what I hate - the false image of it all that you're not supposed to talk about.


Likewise, I'd say the same regarding bars where I live. Well, unfortunately, a lot of pubs and clubs where I live are not what you'd call nice. I live in a fairly rough town with a high teenage pregnancy rate and a high rate of jobless households and plenty of deadbeats with no ambition. A lot of the bar and pubs here tend to have mostly more guys than girls. Also, people just go out to get drunk, stay within their little clique and take pictures of themselves to put on facebook. The atmosphere in a lot of places feels awful and intimidating. The bars in southern Spain for instance are actually nice, relaxed, laidback and vibrant, not here. I enjoy going out, I enjoy dancing, though can't stand the way that bars round here generaly are downmarket and cater for the cretinous chavs and douchebags. Some pubs actually play really loud piped music even if there is no dance floor.

There probably are a few nice bars where you can meet new people in some other towns, but not here. Even so, it's only those that thrive well in such environments that do well. A lot of people here don't like the pub scene. But, the biggest obstacle to meeting new people is the cliqueyness, the barriers, the suspicions of strangers and general reluctance of people to want to do anything with you socially. It drives me mad!

Anyway, the good news is that I'm making steps to changing my social environment by training to be an EFL teacher and am investigating job markets in Spain, France and the Czech republic.

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Post by have2fly » March 1st, 2011, 12:52 am

Yep, all of those things you are describing, I felt them first hand upon relocation to the States. As my friend described, British tend to be reserved at first, but open up later a bit more than Americans. That's why Brits feel like Americans are so much more open and laid-back, because Americans do a lot of empty "small-talk" and smile etc when they talk to you, but they never ever open up. So it may look better to Brits. I am looking from East European perspective and U.S. just seems to have no social network at all. You are all alone on your own everyday whole life. I know a friend who just relocated from Kiev, Ukraine and lives nearby, he won a green card lottery, so he was happy to relocate to the States to live a "Hollywood dream". But it ended badly - his wife dumped him and returned to Ukraine - she said she hates living in the U.S. and will never return here, his internet business barely gets him going because expenses are so much higher in the States and now he is lonely and it drives him NUTS - he just can't believe that no one wants to even talk to him, girls just stay away from him and are scared of his accent. If he gets a phone number - girls never pick up on him. Well, you know the story! I've been there, you guys been there too I bet! But for this poor Ukrainian guy it is a suicide! He doesn't understand what is wrong. So now he is dreaming to go live in Czech republic where he spent a few years before coming to the States. So just to give you guys a feel of a fresh of the boat immigrant feelings. Not good.

I spent a few months in France, EFL jobs are available, but not high-paid though. The people are AWESOME though! French are very welcoming, talkative and approachable. Much more real, much more open, they definitely value families much more than English-speaking countries. They still get together and sit at the table during gatherings, a lot of food is cooked from scratch. I was amazed after attending thousands of U.S. parties - where everyone is standing up drinking cheap beer with chips and salsa if you get lucky to even have chips - which is the worst junk food by the way!

Czech is good too, very developed for Eastern Europe, but I would go for Slovakia, which is more Eastern and more Slavic. I bet Slovak girls are prettier too, but I can't say for sure cuz I haven't visited yet.

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Post by pete98146 » March 1st, 2011, 1:20 am

Having lived in Seattle for 25 years, I'd venture to say NO place is as bad as Seattle. There are too many things that work against us here such as:

1. Bad weather. Most people go to work and then rush home to look at Netflix.
2. A high concentration of Scandinavian and Asian people (both considered on the quiet side of the coin).
3. Seattle has the highest level of educated population in USA which equals a boat load of snooty people who think they are better than you regardless of what they look like.
4. An extremely high ratio of single guys so the females are not hungry for attention.
5. High degree of independence. Why go out and do a group event when a guy can hop into his Suburu and go for a hike by yourself? Trust me, this happens....a lot.

So unless you are married, Seattle is the shits.

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Post by Think Different » March 1st, 2011, 1:26 am

Just wait till hyperinflation hits the US soon, and people can't afford basic food and products. Then the shit will really hit the fan and people will be in the streets rioting. Imagine riots like in the ME recently, except that there are 150 million REGISTERED private guns in the US. I'm glad I won't be around to witness it.

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Re: Can western society get any more anti-social?

Post by jamesbond » March 1st, 2011, 2:10 am

mattyman wrote:It always baffles me that whenever I try to meet people in public in Britain they all seem SO uncomfortable and unapproachable (especially young people). How come, even when I've been to various classes and voluntary work, people are always distant and want to go their own seperate ways and stick with their own little tight clique. Why are english people so bloody terrified of talking to strangers and including new people in their group?
It sucks that meeting new people is confined to pubs and clubs. It is a form of social exclusion. Why are people, especially young people terrified of having conversations? I absolutely detest it.

The fact that meeting people is limited to pubs and clubs, work, mutual introductions etc. is just too bloody restrictive. It enfuriates me when people say 'join clubs, classes and societies'. I've done that. People just want to have polite chit-chat (at most) then keep to themselves. They don't want to meet new people, be invited out, get to know you or even just bring you into their circle. They just go their own seperate ways. Even if you are persistent, it takes YEARS just to meet a handful of people because of this. I really don't get it. I'm sick to death of it.

Because meeting people is restricted to the channels just mentioned, if you're working at a job where people don't want anything to do with you socially, it's safe to say that you're buggered in some respects (unless you thrive in the bar/club scene). Because of the extreme cliqueyness, if you are in that situation, I that it's fair to call that a form of exclusion from from society. How many people reading this are familiar with such a predicament? You know, it feels like a bit of a dead end.

Question is, when will people stop being so f***ing paranoid and terrified of each other. When will neighbours start talking to each other and inviting each other over? What a depressing society! The weather over here really doesn't help, cloudy a lot of the time.
It sounds like England and the US are carbon copies of each other socially. The only way to meet people in the US is to be introduced to them by a third party. Americans are paranoid and anti-social, just like the British! I read that only 7% of Americans socialize with their neighbors! The US is the United States of Lonely People! :shock:
"When I think about the idea of getting involved with an American woman, I don't know if I should laugh .............. or vomit!"

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Post by Mr Average » March 1st, 2011, 2:10 am

I think the problem is that theres really only two types of people who tend to approach and talk to strangers these days. The most common type, salespeople, have caused a great deal of damage to modern society's willingness to interact with others outside their social circles. How many times have you had someone randomly approach you in the street, shopping mall, etc. asking how your day has been, your interests, etc? Then a few minutes in comes the sales pitch... Some are so good at what they do you start to believe they are just actually nice, geniune people wanting to chat. I'm not sure about the rest of you guys but if that happens (rarely these days but when I was younger maybe 3-4 times when I honestly believed they were being sincere) I feel humiliated and upset that I let my guard down and was tricked. No one likes to be humiliated that I think in consequence a lot of people have their guards up 24/7 and are just so paranoid of being tricked again that any stranger showing any sort of friendliness towards you automatically sets off alarm bells.

The second type, which is a much smaller group, are the "weirdos". I don't mean weird as in they are normal people but you have incorrectly labelled them as weird because they approached you, though that sure does happen a lot these days, but the ones who have something mentally wrong with them, and will mess you up if you let them get involved in your life. Half these people are easy to spot (alchololic bums, etc) but the other half are a worry.

The one thing consistent between the two groups is that they all want something from you or have an ulterior motive of some sort, they are far from just simply altruistic. And people are very wary of being tricked (again)

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Post by gsjackson » March 1st, 2011, 2:44 am

Mr Average wrote:I think the problem is that theres really only two types of people who tend to approach and talk to strangers these days. The most common type, salespeople, have caused a great deal of damage to modern society's willingness to interact with others outside their social circles. How many times have you had someone randomly approach you in the street, shopping mall, etc. asking how your day has been, your interests, etc? Then a few minutes in comes the sales pitch... Some are so good at what they do you start to believe they are just actually nice, geniune people wanting to chat. I'm not sure about the rest of you guys but if that happens (rarely these days but when I was younger maybe 3-4 times when I honestly believed they were being sincere) I feel humiliated and upset that I let my guard down and was tricked. No one likes to be humiliated that I think in consequence a lot of people have their guards up 24/7 and are just so paranoid of being tricked again that any stranger showing any sort of friendliness towards you automatically sets off alarm bells.

The second type, which is a much smaller group, are the "weirdos". I don't mean weird as in they are normal people but you have incorrectly labelled them as weird because they approached you, though that sure does happen a lot these days, but the ones who have something mentally wrong with them, and will mess you up if you let them get involved in your life. Half these people are easy to spot (alchololic bums, etc) but the other half are a worry.

The one thing consistent between the two groups is that they all want something from you or have an ulterior motive of some sort, they are far from just simply altruistic. And people are very wary of being tricked (again)
Yes, this is a big part of the American problem. On the rare occasions I'm approached by people I assume they either want my money or my soul for Jesus. If I see somebody coming I just reach for my wallet to get out a dollar. It's a nation of salesmen and evangelists, and that's part of why the social discourse has become so barren.

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Post by globetrotter » March 1st, 2011, 1:40 pm

Winston wrote:You've hit it right on the nose. The worst thing about it is that you can't talk about any of this because you are "supposed" to be dumb and asleep and not notice any of this, no matter how obvious it is.

In such anti-social societies, people are engineered not to want connection, but to be private, accumulate wealth, and be dumb. Plus most people are followers by nature. They fear truth, preferring whatever is popular or accepted, whereas we embrace truth. That's what makes us different here. Yes we are more aware than the mainstream. However, we will also feel alienated from the mainstream as well. But once you are awakened and attuned to truth, you never really regret it and never wish you could go back to being ignorant again. This means that truth is priceless. Keep that in mind next time you feel alienated from the mainstream.
You are assuming that because something is not discussed that is due to others being dumb.

Obviously hundred's of millions of people want to live in the USA and adhere to the USA lifestyle.

The top 20% are doing very well and they are almost always very oblique in their speech, circumspect in their demeanor, and restrained in their body language. These are all signs of an Upper Middle Class or above Social Economic Signs. Wealthy, successful and top-level business people do not speak directly about anything.

To do so is rude. It simply is not done.

This concept trickled down from diplomats and kings to those closest to them in the social order and then worked its way to the next lower class, the top 20%.

Millions of people in the USA are very happy and content, Winston. Don't ever forget that there are many who have lots of money and like their lives that way on purpose. They like and want a life that is cooler, more English or Northern European. Isolated, individualistic, a Calvinist devotion to work and property and minding ones own business.

It could be worse. It could be Finland, where people take affront to you if you dare to even look at them on the street.

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Post by pete98146 » March 4th, 2011, 6:56 pm

I think much of this problem has to do with the "Facebook" mentality. Unless a person is on your FB friends list, they basically do not exist. No wonder FB caught on like wildfire because it's perfect for the younger generation and their anti social/cliquish ways.

I admit that I use FB but it was a tool used to plan our upcoming high school reunion. It was fun to get caught up with some of my old friends. But aside from that I don't use it much. Compare and contrast this to my wife's generation (she's 30 and I'm 49) and the difference is HUGE. I look at my wife's FB activity and people post 2-3 times a day, they tweet their locations and what they are drinking coffee or eating lunch to their friends from their handheld telephones. So yes in someways they are being social but only in their select comfort group. God forbid if one of these young folk had to talk to a randon stranger on the street. My circle of friends who are older probably average one posting per week.

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Post by jamesbond » March 4th, 2011, 10:16 pm

pete98146 wrote:I think much of this problem has to do with the "Facebook" mentality. Unless a person is on your FB friends list, they basically do not exist. No wonder FB caught on like wildfire because it's perfect for the younger generation and their anti social/cliquish ways.

God forbid if one of these young folk had to talk to a randon stranger on the street.
Yes, the cliquishness of Americans is appalling! Facebook and myspace actually keeps people from interacting with one another face to face. Some people would prefer to just communicate via the internet rather than face to face!
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Post by mattyman » March 4th, 2011, 11:26 pm

You guys are absolutely right. Social networking sites are absolutely no substitute for real, genuine social interaction. I've heard many people mention that technology is a key factor in why many young people have poor social skills.
I also think that people in western countries are exposed to too much paranoia-generating, sensationalist, profit-motivated mass media. This too must play a part.

I also think that a lot of anglo young people, though not all, are conditioned to pre-judge people based on stereotypes. I think that this is absolutely appalling and has no excuse. There is nothing too taxing about taking time to get to know a person halfway.

I think that all this has to change though, it's not good for society at large. How can you have vibrant communities if people are terrified about any attempt at striking up conversation in public? No wonder the west is going bonkers.

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Post by momopi » March 5th, 2011, 7:29 am

pete98146 wrote:I think much of this problem has to do with the "Facebook" mentality. Unless a person is on your FB friends list, they basically do not exist. No wonder FB caught on like wildfire because it's perfect for the younger generation and their anti social/cliquish ways.

I admit that I use FB but it was a tool used to plan our upcoming high school reunion. It was fun to get caught up with some of my old friends. But aside from that I don't use it much. Compare and contrast this to my wife's generation (she's 30 and I'm 49) and the difference is HUGE. I look at my wife's FB activity and people post 2-3 times a day, they tweet their locations and what they are drinking coffee or eating lunch to their friends from their handheld telephones. So yes in someways they are being social but only in their select comfort group. God forbid if one of these young folk had to talk to a randon stranger on the street. My circle of friends who are older probably average one posting per week.

With services like Myspace, friendster, facebook, etc., there's a limited window when everyone is new to the service and are "open", as in leaving their profiles open and willing to add friend requests from anyone. After too many weirdos join the service and bombard girls with creepy messages, people start setting their profiles to private, and eventually the service becomes passé and they move on to the next new thing.

In developed foreign countries they have their own local social networking sites that go through the same cycle. In Taiwan we used wretch.cc, in China they use renren.com, kaixin001.com, 51.com, etc., in France they use fr.skyrock.com, in Japan they use mixi.jp, and so on. Don't be discouraged by foreign languages, the English language itself borrowed heavily from Norman-French. For example, if you look at this profile:

http://eleanasexy9727.skyrock.com/profil/

Her status says "Situation : Célibataire"
Celibacy means not married, "Je suis célibataire" means "I'm single", and 24 ans = 24 years old. But considering the lack of content, the profile is probably spam bait. =p


American are sometimes not welcomed, because we have a bad reputation of re-posting photos and content without the owner's permission. Just because someone posted their photos to their blog, does not mean the photo is in public domain. There's some cultural and social etiquette differences in respect to "fair use". For example in US, if you go to Anime Expo, it's generally acceptable to take photos of cosplayers with the assumption that they dressed up to have their photos taken in the first place. However in Japan that is not allowed without the person's explicit consent.

http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Comiket#General_Rules

"Taking pictures of cosplayers outside of the Cosplay Square is forbidden. In the past, there have been problems with unscrupulous photographers snapping unsolicited shots."
"Don't take pictures of cosplayers without their express permission."

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