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Europe's low birth rate

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the European Countries.

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Europe's low birth rate

Postby Enishi » Wed Sep 19, 2007 2:18 pm

I've been thinking lately about the abyssmally low birth rate of many european countries, the factors which caused it, as well as the future trends it will initiate. With the large numbers of Muslims immigrating to Europe, along with their much greater birth rate, some of the predictions that Europe will be entirely supplanted by a muslim culture by 2100 don't sound terribly far fetched. Even before then, with a shrinking pool of younger workers to pay taxes, many of the welfare and social programs European countries pride themselves on are likely to collapse.

Its rather depressing, many of the areas of Europe I had been reading about sounded like rather nice places to live, but with the above problems looming on the horizon, things don't look so hot. With a birth rate of 1.7 among caucasion inhabitants, America also stands a good chance of being transformed into a Latin culture within the coming century as well.

I wonder if, in adopting a more individualistic mode of living, and throwing off outdated religious traditions, much of the west also threw out the baby with the bath water, hurting its ability to reproduce itself.

Of course, other factors could come into play long before the west vanishes. Many people in the past sired children so that they would have someone to care for them in their own age. A collapse of welfare and the resulting economic strife could restore reproductive equilibrium.

Any thoughts on this?
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Postby The_Adventurer » Wed Sep 19, 2007 4:51 pm

With a birth rate of 1.7 among caucasion inhabitants, America also stands a good chance of being transformed into a Latin culture within the coming century as well.

It'll still be a very expensive Latin country. ;)


Of course, other factors could come into play long before the west vanishes. Many people in the past sired children so that they would have someone to care for them in their own age. A collapse of welfare and the resulting economic strife could restore reproductive equilibrium.

Another factor of individual culture is that people don't take care of their parents. They want to dump them in an old folks home as quickly as possible and get on with their careers.

Things are eve worse in Japan. Their birth rate has dropped to less than 1.5 and they have the longest living senior population on the planet. That means the government may have to take care of someone for 40 or more years who is not working and paying no taxes while th enext generation work force is not being created.

I was surprised the author of Solid State Society chose to take on this issue seriously in an animated film.

Japan has no real influx of immigrants. The Paki, Filipino and Chinese who go there have no desire to stay. They work there a few years and make a lot of money and return home wealthy.

I think that anywhere you choose to go won't last (unless you're old). The world is changing faster than ever before. I was just in China in 2002 and already so much has changed (for the better in ther case). I was also in Vegas in 2002 and the area where I lived has become completely crime ridden, overpriced and underpoliced.
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Postby momopi » Thu Sep 20, 2007 12:24 am

Birth rates:

Japan: 1.26 - 1.32 / women
Taiwan: 1.12 - 1.24 / women
S. Korea: 1.08 - 1.16 / women
Hong Kong: 0.8 - 0.95 / women

Note that birth rates vary by year, so I gave the stats in "range". Also, major cities and city-states tend to have low birth rate. For example the birth rate of Hong Kong, Macau, Tokyo, and Shanghai are similar at ~0.9x child per women.

If we look at this chart, you'll notice that small city states like Singapore, Monaco, Macau, Andorra, and HK are near the bottom:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... birth_rate

However it should also be noted that major EU countries like Austria, Italy, and Germany are also ranked in the very bottom.

Immigrant population from Mexico and North Africa has higher birth rate, but by 1.5 generation their birth rate drops. I live in Southern California where some areas have Hispanic majority, and it's mostly due to immigration than birth.

Asian Americans are one of the smallest minority groups in the US with relatively low birth rate, yet it's fast-growing because of immigration from Asia.

The general trend is that the wealthier and more education a women receives, the less likely that she'd have children or additional children. China is the only country that has government-imposed birth control policy, which I think is quite stupid because all you have to do is offer free college education (and build more schools) to lower the birth rate.

Will Europe become an Islamic Republic? That depends on its people's willingness to have and support children. No children = no future for your civilization.
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Postby Jackal » Mon Mar 17, 2008 12:14 am

momopi wrote:Birth rates:
Will Europe become an Islamic Republic?


I don't think so. Just being the majority by population isn't enough to rule a country--just look at the history of South Africa. An ethnic group needs to seize political power to rule a country, and if these people are immigrants then they will have to face all the social filters that tend to prevent people who are not like the current ruling class from attaining political power.

Look at the U.S. We have a large black population, but we have very few black members in the Congress and Senate. So I don't think the Muslims will be taking over Europe any time soon, although tensions between the two cultures could certainly increase (just look at Britain now).
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Postby Free » Sun May 16, 2010 4:33 am

Just wanted to revive a very crucial thread.

This is exactly one of my tug-of-war issues.

I have found other lands very easy to meet very nice girls and had some amazing times, which if that was my only drive, I'd be back there in a split second. But back in the lands of my own kind, in Europe, we have this issue of low birth rates. I think the Europeans and European-Americans have done tremendous things for civilization (let's put aside the negatives for now), and of course the beauty is wonderful, therefore, I feel it a strong drive and certainly my duty to reproduce with one to carry on that, now at risk, Euro line. When you have higher birthrates by non-whites (i.e. India with 1 billion, China ?1 billion, Africa, etc.), massive immigration into white lands and mixing, higher abortion rates amongst whites, and issues like this, it is crucial in these cases, for white men to mate with white women.

I certainly have nothing against other races, as I've stated, had many great times in the past for example with girls and many nice friends in general, but this is not just about me, it is about the continuation of my kind, playing at least my individual role.

And do you see my struggle? It is harder to hook up, or at least have children with females in Europe, than lets say in SEA or LA, and if this was just about me and my life, I'd be back in some of those easier spots having a blast, but going that route, having children there, instantly stops 100's of years of a Euro lineage in me. It's just very difficult for me to do that, no matter how much the passion for females in general drives.

Actually, in the not so distant years of the past, when hooked up, I have purposely decided to stop the furthering of relations with very nice, model type girls of other lands not Europe in which I was with, out of fear of not fulfilling that greater purpose. I would have been tied down and possible with children. Sometimes I wonder if that was foolish, but I was lead to do it. In the older days, I didn't even think about it, but then I started to, and it got in the way.

E. Europe and maybe Russia is an option, but I'm already well-schooled and tied to another European country and need to try that first. The major problem is that it is one of the harder nations of Europe. :(

There is also this fear that, already being up there in age, I may waste more precious time sticking with that one land.

It is also more expensive as well.

There are of course no answers to such a personal and complex issue on an internet forum, and miracles can be had anywhere and at any time, also, going day by day can be enough to take you along to hopefully the right path.
I just wanted to share this tug-of-war struggle, that maybe some other readers coming by might experience.

I used to be quite open and carefree about hooking up and had some great experiences (sort of Wu-like :wink:), but as time went on and seeing the importance of all cultures and ethnic groups preserving themselves, I felt something higher than I, higher than my life, a more important duty to contribute to.

I see it as a risk going to a tougher location, whereas I could be in SEA or LA for example, living easier and of more guarantees, and certainly lower cost of living, having some nice times. But if in the tougher location, it does end up working out, then it will be well worth it.

And although I enjoy being in other lands, there is still something sort of out place by not being around your own kind, more specifically, your own ethnic group. Imho it feels as if you still just don't quite fit, even despite many friends and the like. There is an irony, you may actually even feel happier in another land, people may even treat you kinder than possibly in your colder homeland, but there can be in a struggle as you still may feel a sort of detachment and maybe void. Imho and experience at least.

Such is life. :roll:

Thanks for reading. :)
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Postby ladislav » Sun May 16, 2010 4:57 am

The American Anglo Saxon heritage is too strong for it to become a Latin-Latin country. In Palm Springs, my "hometown" of sorts, most people are of Hispanic origin but they are just darker haired WASPs in behavior, albeit Catholic and thus, more modest and friendlier. Should I call them LASCs? Latin Anglo Saxon Catholic? They do not speak Spanish and are totally Americanized in everything. While the American cultural core is becoming less WASP in blood, it is still very WASP in values and culture and the tradition will be carried on forever, I think. Plus the assimilated immigrants will always be encouraging the more recent ones to assimilate into the mainstream by all means possible. And that is where money will be.
Many older generation Americans are complaining that immigrants do not want to assimilate but they do not realize that assimilation takes 2-3 generations to be complete. It has happened to all immigrants (except the British- with them it just takes taking on a new accent , otherwise)with no exception. The mechanism is in place to grind everyone into Americans and it won't be budged. People will just look more mixed racially but nothing much will change.
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Postby dano » Sun May 16, 2010 5:18 am

White people are slowly being bred out of existence. Specifically, those with blonde hair and blue eyes will become increasingly rare. Should you decide to complain about this trend you'll be branded a racist. As a white guy, I don't really care that much, I never wanted to make blonde haired babies with a white woman anyway.
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Postby Nate » Sun May 16, 2010 6:37 am

momopi wrote:Birth rates:

Japan: 1.26 - 1.32 / women
Taiwan: 1.12 - 1.24 / women
S. Korea: 1.08 - 1.16 / women
Hong Kong: 0.8 - 0.95 / women

Note that birth rates vary by year, so I gave the stats in "range". Also, major cities and city-states tend to have low birth rate. For example the birth rate of Hong Kong, Macau, Tokyo, and Shanghai are similar at ~0.9x child per women.

If we look at this chart, you'll notice that small city states like Singapore, Monaco, Macau, Andorra, and HK are near the bottom:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_co ... birth_rate

However it should also be noted that major EU countries like Austria, Italy, and Germany are also ranked in the very bottom.

Immigrant population from Mexico and North Africa has higher birth rate, but by 1.5 generation their birth rate drops. I live in Southern California where some areas have Hispanic majority, and it's mostly due to immigration than birth.

Asian Americans are one of the smallest minority groups in the US with relatively low birth rate, yet it's fast-growing because of immigration from Asia.

The general trend is that the wealthier and more education a women receives, the less likely that she'd have children or additional children. China is the only country that has government-imposed birth control policy, which I think is quite stupid because all you have to do is offer free college education (and build more schools) to lower the birth rate.

Will Europe become an Islamic Republic? That depends on its people's willingness to have and support children. No children = no future for your civilization.




You sum it up pretty well. "Will Europe become an Islamic Republic? That depends on its people's willingness to have and support children. No children = no future for your civilization." When you do not believe in your own future, it is pretty hard to think of having
children. >>>The implications of this are starting to shake the EU, including the Euro. Most of this last year folks laughed at my predictions of trouble for the Euro currency, or even its collapse over a few years. I trade currency and put the money bets on my opinions. After the events of the last few months they are not laughing now. The entire premise of the European welfare state is facing harsh reality- there is no way they have the money to pay for all the FREE STUFF! Sad to say, the dumb-ass degenerate we have in the
White House now (and some of those before him) is hell-bent on signing the US up for the same fatal poison.
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Postby FuzzX » Sun May 16, 2010 10:48 am

White people are slowly being bred out of existence.

More like WESTERNIZED cultures are being bred out of existence!

I STILL have yet to meet a friendly western/westernized woman that is open to dating and is not a bossy, overbearing, bitchy, mean spirited, gold digging, self entitled, liberal feminist c**t/university student. Anywhere that this culture is the majority, birth rates are falling sharply.. it is no coincidence.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.
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Postby Think Different » Mon May 17, 2010 4:05 am

For those single guys out there in Europe, you might consider getting as many girls pregnant as possible, in order to increase the Euro birth rates and fend off the next Muslim invasion. Then just keep hopping from country to country and let the welfare state take care of them. Take one for the team! Save western civilization!

Problem is, most Euro chicks are on the pill and will never get pregnant. They're too short-sighted and are only about having fun and don't want to be inconvenienced with children. They don't even realize the pall of Sharia that is already descending on them, while they sit in their cafes and sip coffee and beer.

So, better yet...STEAL their pills, and get them pregnant. Yeah, that's the ticket!

I always say that Italy's 1.1% birth rate (I think that's the rate) must be a divine miracle, or something, since the Catholic church forbids birth control, yet Italy is not producing children! It must be a miracle, right? /sarc
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Postby ladislav » Mon May 17, 2010 4:28 am

The Russians are doing something about it:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... -camp.html
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Postby Think Different » Mon May 17, 2010 5:27 am

Wow! That's creepy! Reminds me of Hitler's Lebensborn program (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lebensborn).

I had heard of the Russian government encouraging youth to have kids, by bribing them with free rent, free refrigerators, etc., but most of these girls will just abort the babies anyway, since they can't afford to keep them. As I understand it, that's the real reason behind Russia's declining population (besides the insane alcoholism).
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