I'm going to Sweden, Germany, and France soon

[International Love]

hey everyone,

i'm leaving the U.S. of Gay for a month, and i'm going to sweden (gothenburg and stockholm), germany (berlin), and france (paris and lyon). i am basically scouting out countries and cities that i might want to move to (in the future). additionally i'm considering going to hamburg, cologne, or frankfurt (germany) or copenhagen (denmark) but am still undecided. i hear that denmark is a xenophobic country, so it might not be worth going to.

anyways, i have a few questions:

1. if i can get away with it, i will just wear t-shirts, jeans, and nice shoes at bars and clubs. basically, i want to dress up as little as possible. is there a mandatory dress code at bars and clubs?
2. how the hell am i supposed to get to know the people there and feel the culture? do i just sit in cafes everyday and go to bars/clubs every night? (to be honest, bars/clubs aren't really my thing, but i will do it if i have to).
3. is it easy to meet people going to just bars (and not clubs) in these countries? i'd prefer not going to regular clubs, as i don't know how to club dance (although i do know how to salsa dance).
4. is it worth going to salsa/bachata clubs in these countries?
5. i only know LA style salsa. will i be able to dance LA salsa if i go to a salsa club in these countries?
6. i'd prefer not to stay in hostels, as i want my own room. any tips on getting cheap accomodations? i'm looking for something like a motel. something cheap but clean. maybe like days inn.
7. somebody on roosh's forum said that there is a lot of organized crime in hamburg. like the russian mafia is there. (http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-7937.html) is that true? if so, that kind of makes me not want to go to hamburg.
8. is it true that the danes distrust foreigners?
9. what's another city in germany that i should go to? hamburg, frankfurt, cologne? i'm trying to visit cities where i realistically might want to find a job and live in.
10. are there any good places where i should apply for jobs? i may hand out a few resumes when i'm abroad.
11. does anybody want to meet up? you can private message me

thanks

[jamesbond]

What's another city in germany that i should go to? hamburg, frankfurt, cologne? i'm trying to visit cities where i realistically might want to find a job and live in.
Does anybody want to meet up? you can private message me.

Hi International Love, I am saving up money now and learning German so next year when I go to Berlin I will feel more comfortable there. The nice thing is most people in the city of Berlin speak English. I might also visit Frankfurt. Since I have a bachelors degree I might look into teaching English as a second language (if I like Germany when I visit it).

I would meet up with you if you plan on going there again next summer. I will be traveling there alone and I know it can be very lonely visiting a foreign country all by yourself.

The picture below shows the difference between women from the USA and women from Germany!

[Hero]

hey everyone,

i'm leaving the U.S. of Gay for a month, and i'm going to sweden (gothenburg and stockholm), germany (berlin), and france (paris and lyon). i am basically scouting out countries and cities that i might want to move to (in the future). additionally i'm considering going to hamburg, cologne, or frankfurt (germany) or copenhagen (denmark) but am still undecided. i hear that denmark is a xenophobic country, so it might not be worth going to.

Why would you want to move to one of those cities? Oh well, to each his own.

anyways, i have a few questions:

1. if i can get away with it, i will just wear t-shirts, jeans, and nice shoes at bars and clubs. basically, i want to dress up as little as possible. is there a mandatory dress code at bars and clubs?

Dude, don't be so lazy. Show some class and you'll set yourself apart from the other Americans. They'll treat you a lot better if you do.

2. how the hell am i supposed to get to know the people there and feel the culture? do i just sit in cafes everyday and go to bars/clubs every night? (to be honest, bars/clubs aren't really my thing, but i will do it if i have to).

You don't have nearly enough time to do that. And no, it ain't gonna happen if you just sit in bars and clubs every night. Figure out which country seems the most promising, then schedule an extended stay of several months there.

3. is it easy to meet people going to just bars (and not clubs) in these countries? i'd prefer not going to regular clubs, as i don't know how to club dance (although i do know how to salsa dance).

Depends on what kind of people you want to meet, and how classy those clubs are. I met some hot but trashy women in clubs in Amsterdam and Budapest. They would have been way out of my league in the US of gay.

4. is it worth going to salsa/bachata clubs in these countries?
5. i only know LA style salsa. will i be able to dance LA salsa if i go to a salsa club in these countries?

I don't know & I don't know

6. i'd prefer not to stay in hostels, as i want my own room. any tips on getting cheap accomodations? i'm looking for something like a motel. something cheap but clean. maybe like days inn.

Good call. I stayed in hostels my first trip to Europe and sleep was just impossible. They had me crammed in a room with 5 college students who didn't seem to need sleep. And those American chain hotels won't be cheap. Find a small, privately owned inn in one of those guides by Frommer's or Lonely Planet or something similar.

7. somebody on roosh's forum said that there is a lot of organized crime in hamburg. like the russian mafia is there. (http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-7937.html) is that true? if so, that kind of makes me not want to go to hamburg.

Big deal. Somebody on the news said there's rampant homicide, assaults and robbery in Chicago. I'm never afraid to go there.

I almost chickened out of my first trip to the Philippines 8 years ago because of some B.S. travel warning from the U.S. State Department. But I went anyway, and I'm so glad that I did. The biggest danger is that you'll be abducted by a gorgeous female college student who will use and violate you for her own pleasure until you drop dead from exhaustion LOL. Take those travel warnings with a huge grain of salt. Just use reasonable precautions and you'll probably be fine. I always say, the biggest risk is never taking one.

8. is it true that the danes distrust foreigners?
9. what's another city in germany that i should go to? hamburg, frankfurt, cologne? i'm trying to visit cities where i realistically might want to find a job and live in.
10. are there any good places where i should apply for jobs? i may hand out a few resumes when i'm abroad.
11. does anybody want to meet up? you can private message me

Don't know, don't know, don't know, & I would if I could.

[gsjackson]

1. if i can get away with it, i will just wear t-shirts, jeans, and nice shoes at bars and clubs. basically, i want to dress up as little as possible. is there a mandatory dress code at bars and clubs?

Dude, don't be so lazy. Show some class and you'll set yourself apart from the other Americans. They'll treat you a lot better if you do.
[/quote]

Especially in Paris you might want to go a little dressier. Parisians fancy themselves as stylish. And they are always looking for ways to look down on Americans, clothes often being a vehicle of choice.

[zboy1]

hey everyone,

i'm leaving the U.S. of Gay for a month, and i'm going to sweden (gothenburg and stockholm), germany (berlin), and france (paris and lyon). i am basically scouting out countries and cities that i might want to move to (in the future). additionally i'm considering going to hamburg, cologne, or frankfurt (germany) or copenhagen (denmark) but am still undecided. i hear that denmark is a xenophobic country, so it might not be worth going to.

anyways, i have a few questions:

1. if i can get away with it, i will just wear t-shirts, jeans, and nice shoes at bars and clubs. basically, i want to dress up as little as possible. is there a mandatory dress code at bars and clubs?

Euros can tell if you're an American by the way you dress: such as wearing sneakers instead of nice shoes, baseball caps, T-Shirts with stupid American sayings. It's better to dress like a European, i.e. nice blazers, nice shoes, dress shirts.

2. how the hell am i supposed to get to know the people there and feel the culture? do i just sit in cafes everyday and go to bars/clubs every night? (to be honest, bars/clubs aren't really my thing, but i will do it if i have to).

You could visit museums and travel a lot, but I suggest going to pubs once-in-a-while, since it's a huge part of the European social scene.

3. is it easy to meet people going to just bars (and not clubs) in these countries? i'd prefer not going to regular clubs, as i don't know how to club dance (although i do know how to salsa dance).

I'm not much of a dancer or clubber myself, but you could go just to socialize and meet girls or drink with your acquaintances in nightclubs

4. is it worth going to salsa/bachata clubs in these countries?

Those clubs are popular in the U.K.--it's the place to go to meet Latin women in that country.

6. i'd prefer not to stay in hostels, as i want my own room. any tips on getting cheap accomodations? i'm looking for something like a motel. something cheap but clean. maybe like days inn.

Couchsurfing is the way to go.

8. is it true that the danes distrust foreigners?

Danes are known to be some of the most reserved and unfriendliest people in Europe.

[Robert77]

1. if i can get away with it, i will just wear t-shirts, jeans, and nice shoes at bars and clubs. basically, i want to dress up as little as possible. is there a mandatory dress code at bars and clubs?

many bars are informal others formal, it all depends.... do avoid the baseball caps, slippers, gap sweaters and shirts with university logos, actually avoid t shirts with stupid logos, abercrombie and fitch and so on.... Europeans often wear cloths without logos, stylish and no logos.... the only europeans who walk around wearing logos are mostly teenagers.
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2. how the hell am i supposed to get to know the people there and feel the culture? do i just sit in cafes everyday and go to bars/clubs every night? (to be honest, bars/clubs aren't really my thing, but i will do it if i have to).

pubs here and there, understand pubs is not to get completely drunk, you go to pubs to socialize.... join local activities groups and so on, best way to know people there.
===
3. is it easy to meet people going to just bars (and not clubs) in these countries? i'd prefer not going to regular clubs, as i don't know how to club dance (although i do know how to salsa dance).

clubs are full of kids in europe, salsa classes might be a good way to meet european ladies, many like to learn to dance this kind of music but avoid night clubs, its mostly stupid young adults getting wasted and dancing techno all night.
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4. is it worth going to salsa/bachata clubs in these countries?

no, most salsa night clubs are cheap looking and full of thugs and hookers, go to bars that play live music, maybe latin, latin music is popular in europe.
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5. i only know LA style salsa. will i be able to dance LA salsa if i go to a salsa club in these countries?

I had no idea LA style salsa existed.... I think most people won't know or care about the difference
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6. i'd prefer not to stay in hostels, as i want my own room. any tips on getting cheap accomodations? i'm looking for something like a motel. something cheap but clean. maybe like days inn.

air b&b is a nice choice, motels outside the city centers, it'll be costly in the end.
====
7. somebody on roosh's forum said that there is a lot of organized crime in hamburg. like the russian mafia is there. (http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-7937.html) is that true? if so, that kind of makes me not want to go to hamburg.

russia mafia could care less about American guy on a budget, Russian mafia cares about the big fish, you're not on their radar and they don't care about you as long as u don't get cocky with the "I am an american mother f***er" and disrespect any of them, if that happens leave that place and go back home.
====
8. is it true that the danes distrust foreigners?

some danes do, some danes don't, denmark is kinda flat rainy and boring though
===
9. what's another city in germany that i should go to? hamburg, frankfurt, cologne? i'm trying to visit cities where i realistically might want to find a job and live in.

frankfurt and the small cities around it have the most americans, it'd be easier but also frankfurt is a boring banking hole without much to do, cologne is ok but its a bit san franciscoish full of gay men though that doesnt mean there aren't women there, hamburg is nicer of all of them..... consider berlin, its pretty cool.
====
10. are there any good places where i should apply for jobs? i may hand out a few resumes when i'm abroad.

before handing out resumes think about your experience and your permit, do you have a proper work permit to live in these countries? speak the language?
====
11. does anybody want to meet up? you can private message me

sure, i am not in europe at the moment though

[droid]

1. if i can get away with it, i will just wear t-shirts, jeans, and nice shoes at bars and clubs. basically, i want to dress up as little as possible. is there a mandatory dress code at bars and clubs?

PM newlifeinthephilippines and hammanta for tips on this. Lol. But seriously, a little effort will go a long way. A nice shirt and pants once in a while wouldn't hurt. Besides, it's gonna get cold pretty soon, I don't see the t-shirts working then.
As far as meeting people, it'd be nice if you enroll in some actual activities/classes, although this would seem difficult to fit in the schedule you presented.

Good luck!

[International Love]

thanks for the responses.

jamesbond, the only way i'm going to be in berlin next summer is if i can get a job there sometime in the next year.

robert77, what city in europe are you going to be in? i will be in europe the last 2 weeks of september and first 2 weeks of october.

robert77 said,
"many bars are informal others formal, it all depends.... do avoid the baseball caps, slippers, gap sweaters and shirts with university logos, actually avoid t shirts with stupid logos, abercrombie and fitch and so on.... Europeans often wear cloths without logos, stylish and no logos.... the only europeans who walk around wearing logos are mostly teenagers."

ah, i see, so it depends on which place you go to. i'll try to get away with the t-shirt, jeans, and nice shoes if i can, but maybe i'll pack a few polo shirts just in case, but they will look really wrinkled up, and i won't have an ironing board. i probably won't wear the polo shirts unless i get rejected from any clubs for not being fashionable enough. i don't wear baseball caps, slippers, and most of my shirts do not have logos.

i know that some people think i'm being lazy by not dressing up, but it's not so much being lazy, as not being so materialistic and not wanting to take part in the rat race. i actually like it when girls dress very casually also. i like it when girls dress in "gap" style clothes. additionally, i'll look like shit with dress clothes anyways, since i won't have an ironing board.

[droid]

ah, i see, so it depends on which place you go to. i'll try to get away with the t-shirt, jeans, and nice shoes if i can, but maybe i'll pack a few polo shirts just in case, but they will look really wrinkled up, and i won't have an ironing board. i probably won't wear the polo shirts unless i get rejected from any clubs for not being fashionable enough. i don't wear baseball caps, slippers, and most of my shirts do not have logos.

i know that some people think i'm being lazy by not dressing up, but it's not so much being lazy, as not being so materialistic and not wanting to take part in the rat race. i actually like it when girls dress very casually also. i like it when girls dress in "gap" style clothes. additionally, i'll look like shit with dress clothes anyways, since i won't have an ironing board.

Unfortunately, people judge you on that kind of stuff. One has to strike a balance I guess, not bending over backwards trying to please others, or being an over-the-top clown, but trying to maximize results is important.
I could be wrong, but I don't think polo shirts have ever gotten anyone laid, unless you have a boat and a golf course to go with it. I'm not trying to be a deek, just trying to advise.

[International Love]

thanks for the responses. i've been doing some research about paris and have a few questions about it.

here are some quotes from the wikitravel page for paris:

"Paris has, in some respects, an atmosphere closer to that of New York than to that of a European city; which is to say, hurried, and businesslike. Parisians have, among the French too, a reputation for being rude and arrogant. Some of their reputation for brusqueness may stem from the fact that they are constantly surrounded by tourists, who can sometimes themselves seem rude and demanding. Remember that most people you'll encounter in the street are not from the tourism industry and are probably on their way to or from work or business."

1. i'm not sure if i should go to paris anymore (i'm only visiting cities that i might realistically want to live in). is living in paris really just like living in New York?

2. do you guys think paris is worth living in?

3. i'm for sure going to lyon. but maybe i should just skip paris and just go to toulouse and lyon?

4. another concern is that toulouse and lyon is so much smaller than paris. i'm not sure i could live in such small cities. at least in the US, i get rejected by a bunch of girls so i'm used to approaching a shitload of them. when i was living in a small college city (in the US), i would constantly see the same girls i got rejected by over and over. this might not be a problem in france, but that's kind of the situation i'm used to.

"Work in Paris, especially for non-EEA/Swiss citizens, entails a very long and arduous process. Unless you possess one of a number of in-demand skills, it will almost certainly be necessary to obtain a job offer from a French employer before arriving. Your employer, for their part, will have to have the offer approved by the relevant governmental authorities, as well. If you opt for unreported work, such as babysitting, you need not fret about going through the process to obtain a Carte de séjour, ie a formal visitor's identity card. However, if you do choose a change in location, it is advisable to obtain a Carte de séjour prior to finding any job whatsoever, as the process can be longer than expected. Note however that a Carte de séjour is often necessary to open a bank account and the like, and by extension for accomplishing any number of other tasks involved in modern life, so unless you're very comfortable transacting everything in cash you should probably bite the bullet and keep things on the up-and-up."

5. is it hard to get a job in paris? i'm a smart guy, but i don't have any special skills. and i know that the french are famous for being lazy and having red tape, so i'm kind of skeptical about parisians being willing to go through the process of getting me a work visa. basically, i'm skeptical about my ability to get a job in france, but especially in paris.

[eurobrat]

1. i'm not sure if i should go to paris anymore (i'm only visiting cities that i might realistically want to live in). is living in paris really just like living in New York?

Paris is one of my most hated on cities here in Europe, it's one of the worst places to live with the lowest quality of life unless you're making ALOT of money.

2. do you guys think paris is worth living in?

Absolutely not unless you have a really good job there. And by really good, I mean netting out around €4.000,00 a month.

3. i'm for sure going to lyon. but maybe i should just skip paris and just go to toulouse and lyon?

I would if I were you.

4. another concern is that toulouse and lyon is so much smaller than paris. i'm not sure i could live in such small cities. at least in the US, i get rejected by a bunch of girls so i'm used to approaching a shitload of them. when i was living in a small college city (in the US), i would constantly see the same girls i got rejected by over and over. this might not be a problem in france, but that's kind of the situation i'm used to.

I would go to a city with at least 500k people.

5. is it hard to get a job in paris? i'm a smart guy, but i don't have any special skills. and i know that the french are famous for being lazy and having red tape, so i'm kind of skeptical about parisians being willing to go through the process of getting me a work visa. basically, i'm skeptical about my ability to get a job in france, but especially in paris.

Pretty much next to impossible unless you're highly specialized in a skill or speak an adequate amount of French or both.

[green1976]

1. i'm not sure if i should go to paris anymore (i'm only visiting cities that i might realistically want to live in). is living in paris really just like living in New York?

Paris is one of my most hated on cities here in Europe, it's one of the worst places to live with the lowest quality of life unless you're making ALOT of money.

2. do you guys think paris is worth living in?

Absolutely not unless you have a really good job there. And by really good, I mean netting out around €4.000,00 a month.

3. i'm for sure going to lyon. but maybe i should just skip paris and just go to toulouse and lyon?

I would if I were you.

4. another concern is that toulouse and lyon is so much smaller than paris. i'm not sure i could live in such small cities. at least in the US, i get rejected by a bunch of girls so i'm used to approaching a shitload of them. when i was living in a small college city (in the US), i would constantly see the same girls i got rejected by over and over. this might not be a problem in france, but that's kind of the situation i'm used to.

I would go to a city with at least 500k people.

5. is it hard to get a job in paris? i'm a smart guy, but i don't have any special skills. and i know that the french are famous for being lazy and having red tape, so i'm kind of skeptical about parisians being willing to go through the process of getting me a work visa. basically, i'm skeptical about my ability to get a job in france, but especially in paris.

Pretty much next to impossible unless you're highly specialized in a skill or speak an adequate amount of French or both.

Finally somebody speaks real about Paris.
I know many French who hates this city..the stress..expensive...rude people...the ghetto...the women.You throw out the tourist venues...you live there the daily life and you are good for a nice depression.Finding a job in Paris...well unless somebody have already a contract in a hight skilled job before coming here..in no way he will find a job..and I m no speaking about the working permit.My situation is not rare...I speak and write three languages.I went to university for a crappy outcome...I strugle to even land a cleaning job and I have French nationality...knows the system..speak and write the language but everything is going down here...the last boat is to live on the welfare state with a miserable income as there is no point to work for 1000 euros a month as you won t find a studio in Paris for less than 600 euros.Many people are struggling here...people are very negative and arrogant because they where never confronted to poverty and it s like everybody against everybody.The stranger is automatically an enemy..I think they are way better places in the West to make money.

[International Love]

ok, thanks for the responses. i'm going on my flight in about 8.5 hours. i've got a few more questions:

1. people often talk about how france and particularly paris have a lot of red tape and lazy people. do you think this holds true outside of paris? basically i'm just worried about how likely employers in toulouse and lyon would be to get me a work permit or whether they wouldn't even try, because it's too much effort for them.
2. i've heard various things about scandinavia being a very conformist area, although i've only heard vague descriptions about it. i'm definitely a non-conformist. do you guys have any experiences with sweden and conformity? please explain in detail, as being a non-conformist is a huge part of my personality.
3. let's say hypothetically that while on vacation i get inspired to just stay in europe and email my boss in the usa and tell him that i quit. you think $25,000 usd would hold me over until i can get a job? or would it be wiser to just come back to the usa, sell my condo, get about $70,000 back in equity, look for european jobs online, quit my job, and then go back to europe?
4. if i happen to find a job abroad while i'm on vacation, i guess i'll just stay in europe. you think i could arrange something where my mom acts as my agent and sells my condo for me in the usa?


my gameplan for now is that if i don't happen to spontaneously find a job while on vacation, then if i find a city i like, i will sign up at an employment office abroad and have them send me information when i get back to the usa. and then i could do phone or skype interviews while in the usa. of course, all this depends on how much i like the places i visit in europe.

thanks

[eurobrat]

ok, thanks for the responses. i'm going on my flight in about 8.5 hours. i've got a few more questions:

1. people often talk about how france and particularly paris have a lot of red tape and lazy people. do you think this holds true outside of paris? basically i'm just worried about how likely employers in toulouse and lyon would be to get me a work permit or whether they wouldn't even try, because it's too much effort for them.
2. i've heard various things about scandinavia being a very conformist area, although i've only heard vague descriptions about it. i'm definitely a non-conformist. do you guys have any experiences with sweden and conformity? please explain in detail, as being a non-conformist is a huge part of my personality.
3. let's say hypothetically that while on vacation i get inspired to just stay in europe and email my boss in the usa and tell him that i quit. you think $25,000 usd would hold me over until i can get a job? or would it be wiser to just come back to the usa, sell my condo, get about $70,000 back in equity, look for european jobs online, quit my job, and then go back to europe?
4. if i happen to find a job abroad while i'm on vacation, i guess i'll just stay in europe. you think i could arrange something where my mom acts as my agent and sells my condo for me in the usa?


my gameplan for now is that if i don't happen to spontaneously find a job while on vacation, then if i find a city i like, i will sign up at an employment office abroad and have them send me information when i get back to the usa. and then i could do phone or skype interviews while in the usa. of course, all this depends on how much i like the places i visit in europe.

thanks

You shouldn't ever sell your place. Mine is rented out. You shouldn't come over here without a job lined up or not legally. Europe has become very strict on legal immigration and if you're here without a work visa and a job you will get caught and be in trouble.

If you have a good job I wouldn't quit it. What are you even looking for a wife or just adventure? What is it you want?

[E Irizarry R&B Singer]

8. is it true that the Danes distrust foreigners?

Danes are known to be some of the most reserved and unfriendliest people in Europe.

@zboy1, Yeah like I said a couple of times before: when I was at a Danish-operated hostel
in Bangkok back in 2007, the women were gorgeous but reserved as all-get-out. It's part of
the Danish culture I guess. The men were in great shape (buff or slender but not emaciated).