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Switzerland: An ideal society and truest democracy?

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the European Countries.

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Switzerland: An ideal society and truest democracy?

Postby Winston » Mon Jan 25, 2016 7:04 pm

This will SHOCK you all! Did you know Switzerland is an ideal society and true democracy in the real world? I talked to a guy from Switzerland the other day here in Angeles City and he told me some interesting things. He said that in Switzerland, all government policy is voted on directly by the voters and DECIDED by the voters, not by a parliament or congress of corrupt bought-and-paid-for politicians. So the common people have direct power over every issue in government policy. That's a true democracy that works. For example, Switzerland did not have to join the EU because they voted not to join it. So the will of the people was done in that case.

Also, Swiss people have this thing called "general liability insurance" to cover any mistakes or accidents that occur in which they cause damage to another's property. For example, if someone accidentally burns your house down, his insurance will cover it. Or if you accidentally break something that belongs to someone else, it will be covered by it. Of course, healthcare is covered too and not a problem, as it is in the rest of Europe. But I never heard about this general liability insurance thingy.

He also told me that everyone in Switzerland is wealthy or well off. No one has to be poor. So there is no lower class, middle class and upper class. Even the Prime Minster of Switzerland has an average salary compared to everyone else there. Wow I never knew there was any country where everyone was well off.

Switzerland is also super safe, with the lowest crime rate in the world. So the people have no reason to be paranoid. In fact, the Prime Minister of Switzerland does not own a car and takes the public train to work ALONE, WITHOUT any security guards or body guards! Wow. Yet this is totally safe. There is no danger for the prime minister to do this. (Unlike the US where four presidents have been assassinated and at least four or five more were shot at and almost killed)

Also, you cannot buy guns in Switzerland, yet there is no government tyranny. So why is there this weird belief that pro-gun people have in America that if you have gun control, then freedom disappears and government tyranny automatically follows? That is totally baseless and has not been the case in Switzerland or China. So like China, Switzerland is also free of gun violence, unlike the US of course. Yet in spite of gun control, it's still the truest democracy where people have power over their government.

He also told me that Swiss people despise America. But not just the American government, they despise the toxic, crazy, dysfunctional American people and culture as well. So the conspiracy crowd is wrong when they say that foreigners only hate the US government but not the American people. It seems everyone is so delusional in the US, including the conspiracy and alternative crowd. And Swiss people know about it and can see the US for what it is: A highly evil, toxic, corrupt, imbalanced and insane society and culture.

Of course, Switzerland is not that great for dating. The women are strong and independent and do not flirt. But they are mature and down-to-earth, not paranoid or man-hating like in America. It also has a strict culture at work with lots of rigid anal retentive rules and penalties, such as you are not allowed to be late to work even one minute. So don't expect a wild or relaxed or warm culture there.

So Switzerland seems to be the most ideal society that exists in the modern world, as well as the most sane and rational and closest thing to a true democracy there is. How come I never heard this before? Why don't Americans know about all this? I wonder.

Did any of you know this? Any of you have anything to add about Switzerland? I certainly was surprised to hear about all this.

The guy who told me is Italian by ethnicity but he grew up in Switzerland. He also told me that he spent a few years in Long Beach, California and that if he were to get started about how bad the US is, he would explode, so he prefers not to even get started on it and wants to focus on positive things. lol
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Re: Switzerland: An ideal society and truest democracy?

Postby Contrarian Expatriate » Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:31 am

I have been to Switzerland and this is my impression.

Positives:
Similar to Germany in terms if infrastructure, cultural efficiency, and public cleanliness.
People were swimming in the public river in the city center of Zurich because it is so clean.
People are not only citizens of Switzerland, but also of their individual cantons (states) and of their municipality too. You can argue the same
for the USA but it is much more pronounced in Switzerland.
People are proud of being Swiss and unimpressed with Americans and America.
It is a pro-gun ownership nation and most people own guns related to military duty.

Negatives:
Rudeness, especially with foreigners. Tourists and foreigners are seen as a necessary evil and barely tolerated.
Despite their xenophobia, the business community is begging for cheap labor but the inhospitable culture and high costs prevent it.
The cost of living negates their high salary. In fact, some cities cannot attract service industry workers because it is too expensive.
Women are masculine, practical types who are unimpressed with you unless you can do something for them. I was dating a Swiss missionary and
we broke up when I told her I was not apt to follow her around the third world to work with poor children.
Women are very direct and almost unpleasant with the truth. They don't mince words.
Central bank is very manipulative and keeps the Swiss Franc artificially low.
Interpersonal connection seemed difficult and social isolation seemed somewhat the norm for non-Swiss.
The culture of banking anonymity and secrecy was busted open several years ago so that benefit is gone.

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Re: Switzerland: An ideal society and truest democracy?

Postby Winston » Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:34 pm

So if Switzerland is so safe and has the lowest crime rate, as someone in another thread mentioned, then why would the Swiss people need to own guns? What for?

Since the Swiss people are more moral and sane than the American people, they are better qualified and more trustworthy to own guns. This just goes to show that guns may not be safe in the hands of an immoral population, or a crazy degenerate population like the one in the US. The pro-gun crowd in the US don't consider that. Only a moralistic population should be entrusted with gun ownership, not an immoral one. Yet the narrow minded conspiracy movement falsely assumes that the American people are good, and only government is bad. When will they update their outdated beliefs?
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Re: Switzerland: An ideal society and truest democracy?

Postby Contrarian Expatriate » Wed Jan 27, 2016 2:35 pm

Winston wrote:So if Switzerland is so safe and has the lowest crime rate, as someone in another thread mentioned, then why would the Swiss people need to own guns? What for?

Since the Swiss people are more moral and sane than the American people, they are better qualified and more trustworthy to own guns. This just goes to show that guns may not be safe in the hands of an immoral population, or a crazy degenerate population like the one in the US. The pro-gun crowd in the US don't consider that. Only a moralistic population should be entrusted with gun ownership, not an immoral one. Yet the narrow minded conspiracy movement falsely assumes that the American people are good, and only government is bad. When will they update their outdated beliefs?


Guns are a part of military conscription issue and they keep them after service due to the need for an armed population that can defend the Swiss homeland in an invasion.

I don't think the Swiss are more moral, just more intelligent and sophisticated than Americans. The higher the level of intelligence, the less likely the person will perpetrate a gun crime.
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Re: Switzerland: An ideal society and truest democracy?

Postby GoingAwol » Fri Feb 19, 2016 7:23 am

Winston,
guns are not the problem, poverty is the problem. The reason that you don't see as much crime in Europe is because those people live better lives, period. If you have the means to get a decent paying job, have free health benefits, and can go to college for free etc. you are less likely to get desperate and turn to crime. People in Europe get those things and that's why there isn't much crime there. If Bernie Sanders gets elected the U.S will relax and become more like Europe.
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Re: Switzerland: An ideal society and truest democracy?

Postby Vegascook » Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:31 am

Switzerland has a socialist economy in which their minimum salary is set about what the average American earns annually. Private enterprise is encouraged, especially financial services, but government regulations prohibit the people in positions of authority from giving themselves raises. Corporate executives are restricted from making over a certain percentage in regard to the average employee, there is no disparity between a $9 an hour employee and an overpriced executive raking in millions. Government positions function the same way as the elected officials can't vote themselves raises because of legal restrictions. The Swiss can directly vote on issues mostly due to the small geographic area with a relatively low population. America could establish a virtual democracy in which citizens vote on issues using the Internet, but political corruption and the ignorance of the average American prevents such a reform. The Swiss practice universal conscription in which all able bodied men are citizen soldiers and are issued weapons by their military. There is no possibility of tyranny in Switzerland because the men have both the training and the firepower to end any would be dictator. They don't allow the clinically insane, criminals, or foreigners to own firearms and those who are issued weapons undergo strict training. The Swiss have a centuries old military tradition and earned money through mercenaries prior to the establishment of their current banking system. The Swiss are well educated and have the capacity to govern themselves. Americans typically don't read any part of the US Constitution, have no idea how our government works, exhibit near total ignorance of US History, and lack civic virtue. China is a tyranny, they do have low key gun violence by organized crime, and horrific crime against humanity have been committed in China as a result of the communist party's monopoly on firearms. Chairman Mao killed nearly 50 million of his citizens and was only surpassed by Stalin in terms of genocide. I wish America could adopt most of what Switzerland's good policies, however our corrupt politicians would get butt hurt if their time at the trough was interrupted by true reform. Congress does not want America to have equitable systems in place and neither does the President despite which party occupies the White House. Our politicians are a bunch of fat lazy sows wallowing in their own filth in between gorging themselves with the bribes thrown into the trough by lobbyists.
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Re: Switzerland: An ideal society and truest democracy?

Postby Vegascook » Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:43 am

GoingAwol wrote:Winston,
guns are not the problem, poverty is the problem. The reason that you don't see as much crime in Europe is because those people live better lives, period. If you have the means to get a decent paying job, have free health benefits, and can go to college for free etc. you are less likely to get desperate and turn to crime. People in Europe get those things and that's why there isn't much crime there. If Bernie Sanders gets elected the U.S will relax and become more like Europe.



I would rather see Bernie Sanders as President than Hillary Clinton. Hillary does not care about anyone but herself and has used public office to enrich herself while letting the middle class get squeezed into a bad place. Sanders would definitely try to make America more equitable in regards to income disparity. The Clintons would like to see Americans dependent upon a welfare state in which the average person sells dignity in exchange for survival at the bottom. Poverty, crushing debt, and lack of employment opportunities push people to consider crime as a means of escape.
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Re: Switzerland: An ideal society and truest democracy?

Postby Vegascook » Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:54 am

Winston wrote:So if Switzerland is so safe and has the lowest crime rate, as someone in another thread mentioned, then why would the Swiss people need to own guns? What for?

Since the Swiss people are more moral and sane than the American people, they are better qualified and more trustworthy to own guns. This just goes to show that guns may not be safe in the hands of an immoral population, or a crazy degenerate population like the one in the US. The pro-gun crowd in the US don't consider that. Only a moralistic population should be entrusted with gun ownership, not an immoral one. Yet the narrow minded conspiracy movement falsely assumes that the American people are good, and only government is bad. When will they update their outdated beliefs?


Winston, the Swiss citizens are required to undergo military training and complete a term of service. They are also required to store and maintain firearms issued by the army for the sole purpose of an emergency. In the US however even the ATF violates common sense in regards to firearms. Take the Fast an Furious program in which Director Eric Holder sold guns to the Mexican cartels, this was a clear violation of both the law and common sense. In America the government arms the threats to public safety while restricting law abiding citizens. It's our government that's whacked not the 2nd Amendment or the people who support it.
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Re: Switzerland: An ideal society and truest democracy?

Postby Winston » Mon Feb 22, 2016 6:41 pm

Clarification: The swiss italian guy told me that in Switzerland, you can keep the guns you acquire in the military. But you cannot go to the store and buy one.
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Re: Switzerland: An ideal society and truest democracy?

Postby Vegascook » Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:25 am

All Swiss military personnel are issued the standard light infantry equipment for a modern army. This includes an assault rifle, side arm, and/or a sniper rifle depending upon the training of each conscript. The amazing thing is that the Swiss have the highest percentage of their citizens armed with assault rifles when compared to any other nation and yet there is no artificial "controversy" created by their media for the sole purpose of disarming citizens. In America we have politicians dedicated to destroying the 2nd Amendment while they simultaneously support any thug who commits a violent crime with a firearm. The thug is never to blame for his vicious crimes, but honest citizens are continually restricted in regards to their liberties because of the un-American left-wing extremists who are butt hurt over the Soviet Union losing the Cold War. My family arrived in North America shortly after the founding of Jamestown. The colonial government had pissed off the natives and pitted a few hundred settlers against 30,000 very angry natives. The patriarch of my family arrived with a few dozen other English mercenaries for the purpose of securing the colony and ensuring its survival. The king of England offered land in exchange for military service and thus the Clays from Kent established themselves as the Virginia Clays in the New World. In time another King decided to violate the on standing social contract with my family and many other families that had helped expand the English Empire. The battles of Lexington and Concord followed as as result of a failed policy of gun control, America gained its independence, and the English Empire suffered an embarrassing revolution that could have easily been avoided. Several years after Independence the US government passed a tax on distilled spirits which rested almost exclusively upon the frontiersmen in the Appalachian Mountains. This tax was passed without representation from the people who were the most heavily taxed by the law, which was in direct violation of the spirit of the American Revolution. The frontiersmen felt extremely slighted by the law since they were the ones to win the first victories over the British. While the Continental Army was busy losing the first few years of the Revolutionary War it was the mountain men of Appalachia who destroyed half of an Enlish army and captured the rest while conducting a direct frontal assault upon a fortified enemy army which was encamped upon the summit of a mountain. The English commander was buried upon that very same mountain where he was shot off his horse while his command area was being overwhelmed. The right to bear arms has ensured the success of the American colonies, the American Revolution, the end of slavery, the Civil Rights movement, the Labor movement, and many other positive reforms in American History. The academic community within this nation likes to maintain the pretense that most issues in our history are solved peacefully, history however when viewed objectively shows a clear pattern of habitual violence in regards to positive reforms forced upon the state by armed citizens fed up with corruption or mistreatment. Our government only respects the rule of law when forced to do so and will violate the Constitution openly and habitually until some citizens push back. With all due respect Winston I understand your line of thought on firearms, however the Founding Fathers would never have supported gun control in any form simply because the end result is always tyranny or oligarchy. No republic or democracy endures a social policy citizen disarmament because power shifts from the citizens as a whole to a few wealthy or powerful individuals. Just imagine a President who could order federal agents to kill the political dissidents/opponents without the possibility of any resistance. Bill Clinton sent in the FBI swat teams for Ruby Rige and Waco, which resulted in hundreds of civilian fatalities, all with merely unsupported claims of wrongdoing. In the Ruby Ridge case a former Green Beret veteran was framed by a convict who was coerced by the FBI. His wife, son, and dog were slaughtered by a federal swat team along with his neighbor's son. A civil court found the FBI liable for wrongful death and awarded the veteran $10 million, but no federal agents were ever tried for murder. At Waco federal agents burned a few hundred people alive because they claimed David Coresh had "possibly" had sex with unwilling partners, once again no evidence brought forth to justify the brutality of federal law enforcement. Fed up with a clear pattern a federal abuses a bronze star recipient named Timothy MiCVeigh makes a fertilizer bomb in a rental truck and then blows up a federal building as reprisal. He is quickly and quietly tried, convicted, and then summarily executed. The Clinton Administration quietly drops its undeclared war on the 2nd Amendment in fear of further attacks from fed up citizens. We now have Hillary running for President citing gun control as one of her platform issues despite her claims of 2nd Amendment protection in her bid against Obama. It was Hillary who pushed her husband to appoint Janet Reno and that evil bitch abused federal office until Bill was forced to put her on a very short leash after the Ruby Ridge and Waco "incidents." The 2nd Amendment is essentially a social contract between the government and the people. The government pretends to uphold Liberty at the very least and the people refrain from rebellion so long as government excess do not exceed what the average American can tolerate. In order to maintain a free society in this nation the American people must retain the capacity for rebellion because the government consistently finds itself on the wrong end of liberty.
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Re: Switzerland: An ideal society and truest democracy?

Postby Vegascook » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:57 am

Political reform in America:

The American Revolution: citizens using their personal firearms liberate the colonies by forming militias and the Continental Army as a response to England's violation of English law towards the American colonies.

Shay's Rebellion: A hero of the Revolutionary War takes up the cause of small farmers in Massachusetts who were forced to bear the full financial burden of the state's war debt so that the rich could place team liens upon their properties and then legally steal them through the state courts. The rebellion engulfed nearly the entire state and forced an equitable compromise due to the right to bear arms.

The Wisky Rebellion: Frontiermen responsible for early Revolutionary War victories and the survival of the Continental Army are levied a spirits tax without being given any respresentation in Congress. The lack of roads or rivers means distilled alcohol is the sole means by which surplus grain can be monetized for trade over long distances, thus one smaller group is asked to bear bear total responsibility for the war debt. The frontiersmen rebel, George Washington is forced to call up 12,000 volunteers based solely upon his reputation, a short battle is fought with 200 against 12,000, and Congress realized the near fatal blunder in time to enact the US Constitution along with the Bill of Rights so that America could be saved from the stupidity of future politicians. This greatest reform in our history was accomplished because of two successive rebellions by armed citizens and as a result America transitioned from the Articles of Confederation to our current Constitution. Currently America has left wing extremists who want to cherry pick what parts of the Constitution should be respected and which should be openly destroyed through indoctrination of the American people via misinformation and open lies.

The Civil War: Southern democrats pre-plan the Civil War by multiple assassination attempts against Abraham Lincoln, the US Navy is dispersed as much as possible, active army units are sent west to the frontier, and military supplies are covertly transferred from northern military bases to the south. The north is left with a gutted military, barely adequate state militias, and a nonexistent intelligence service while the south has the best of everything prior to the start of the Civil War. After the south attacks a federal military base Lincoln called for volunteers and armed citizens filled in fo professional soldiers long enough to hold America together. Without the 2nd Amendment America would have become two nations rather than staying united. Imagine slavery still in practice, it would likely have been reality had the Confederacy won. An armed civilian population kept America whole, any academic who claims otherwise is a bold-faced liar.

Post Resconstrction America: Southern Democrats form the Klu Klutz Klan, begin terrorizing former slaves, enact Jim Crow Laws, and summarily executed any blacks who resisted their brutality. All this was enabled through a universal policy of disarming black citizens for the purpose subjugation. This reign of terror continued until the 1960's.

Civil Rights Era: Fed up with the status quo an informal and violent resistance formes in which both blacks and whites kill each other. Years of bloodshed results and then Dr. King enters the picture. He's subsequently assassinated by a white supremacist with a gun and America solidified behind the Civil Rights Movement. The Democrats are forced to abandon Jim Crow, Segregation, Lynchings, and other hate crimes in favor of rewriting history in which they claim that their party never did any of these horrible hate crimes.

Ronald Regan is elected: He defunds social welfare programs which resulted in John Hinkly being released from an insane asylum. Hinkly tried to assassinate Reagan and paralyzed his aid Brady which resulted in both parties restricting the 2nd Amendment. Mental health assistance is eliminated while at the same time gun owners face ever increasing regulations which do nothing to prevent the clinically insane from purchasing firearms. Nut jobs can more easily purchase guns today in comparison to law abiding citizens who follow ATF regulations with fidelity. Whack jobs commit ever increasing acts of unnecessary brutality as a result of federal bureaucratic incompetence and the liberals scream for more gun control even as it becomes apparent that nothing is stopping low life-life, insane psychopaths from buying guns they are not legally allowed to buy. 30,000 gun laws across America and not one of them truly is effective in regards to the claimed intent.

Eric Holder: The douchebag in charge of the ATF allows the sale of firearms to The Mexican Drug Cartels under the "Fast and Furious Program", he accepted no responsibility for violating federal gun control laws and perversely tried to blame the former President. Mexico demanded his extradition for violating their firearms laws but President Obama refused to prosecute or extradite Eric Holder. Instead President Obama appointed an anti-gun sympathizer to the Supreme Court.

Current Presidential race: Hillary Clinton is claiming to be anti 2nd Amendment despite her previous claims of being pro-gun rights while running against Obama. This time she's actually telling the truth, she hates the 2nd Amendment and anyone who supports it! Fact: Prohibition did not end alcohol consumption in the US but rather increased it while at the same time reduced the legal/moral credibility of the federal government. Fact: Americans are more fanatical about their 2nd Amendment rights than they ever were about an implied right to drink alcohol.

Speculation: If Hillary wins and tries to viciously destroy the 2nd Amendment her husband will not be in a position to stop her as he'll be the first "lady." A bloodbath will likely ensue because of Hillary's liberal feminazi, need to socially engineer society to her perverse perception of a neo-communist "utopia" that hippie pot-head losers couldn't force upon America in the 1960's.
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Re: Switzerland: An ideal society and truest democracy?

Postby Winston » Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:15 pm

Vegascook,
Some of your posts contain paragraphs that are very long. Can you please divide them into smaller paragraphs? They are hard to read. Text needs breathing space man.

Btw you sure know a lot about history for a cook. Lol
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Re: Switzerland: An ideal society and truest democracy?

Postby Vegascook » Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:45 pm

Well I'm actually trained in multiple career fields. Culinary arts, baking, pastries, massage therapy, and education are the areas where I have degrees earned. A bachelor's degree, two associate's degrees, and a technical diploma are my current achievements to date. I have a pending application for the CELTA course and am considering a master's degree program in linguistics if I end up teaching ESL overseas. If I'm hired by the federal government an MBA would be earned for the contracting specialist position or a master's in history/political science for the intelligence analyst position.

My branch of the Clay family are direct descendants of Henry Clay "The Great Compromiser", the man who delayed the Civil War by decades and nearly prevented it from happening. History education is an informal part out the family culture as a recurring theme is the necessity for taking a stand against what's wrong.

The most recent family stance was during the Labor Movement in which the coal miners established unions to prevent unnecessary fatalities and corporately enforced poverty upon local citizens. Anse Hatfield who a local sheriff and union sympathizer was assassinated by Pinkerton Detectives acting as mercenaries/hit men for the local coal company. This was the post-WWI era while my grandpa was a boy and my great grandfather worked in the coal mines. Miners were forced to sign contracts in which everything had to be bought from the coal company's town stor. They were paid below the cost of living in company script rather than USD. The coal company owner the housing, town, stores, church, and often even "government" offices. The miners were forced to fight and an army of 10,000 miners marched from unionized mine areas into those area under martial law brutalized by the mercenaries. The US Army Air Corps received its 1st combat mission against the miners and dropped chemical weapons down upon the miners as they fought. (Hypocritically our current administration has pretended America is better than the Assad regime because it's not ok to gas terrorists but union activists were apparently fair game in early 20th Century America.) The miners won the legal battle for unions in court while fighting to a stalemate against the mercenaries who had heavy weapons such as machineguns, artillery, bombers, and automatic rifles.

It is important as a citizen of this country to research American History because some of the most important events in our history merely receive one paragraph or less in our schools' textbooks. Teachers within the country also have the habit of omitting ideas that they find unpleasant and in direct conflict with the leftist indoctrination their professors instilled upon them. Propaganda trumps truth far too often in America and the average citizen lacks the education, intelligence, knowledge,mindset, and willpower to challenge entrenched lies woven into our culture.

America always tries a peaceful resolution: This lie is the most pervasive in the American academic community. It directly violates a consistent history of violence first approaches for political problems. We are not a peaceful society as is falsely portrayed through our media. Internally or externally we have always been at a state of war from the founding of Jamestown until the present moment. The US government had a solid track record of war with Native American tribes until WWI. Upon victory over Germany American Imperialism expanded beyond North America and is still going on today. Corporations dictate our foreign military policy more so than any political "leaders." The only difference today is that as a nation we have lost most of the wars for little or no gain over nearly a 6 decade stretch. We are the most warlike civilization in human history and our government has forgotten how to win wars as well as how to use wars to advance America. Today wars are started upon the whims of Presidents. Currently we're being set up for another civil war or the losing end of WWIII. This path is already set in stone America will fall just as Rome did. The 2nd Amendment could possibly help save America from our leaders, but there has to be political will for preserving the Constitution or else we will lose our republic for the aspirations of a would be emperor.
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Re: Switzerland: An ideal society and truest democracy?

Postby Vegascook » Tue Feb 23, 2016 10:06 pm

I am trying to help make a difference in our government which is why I've taken an active role as a volunteer for one of the Presidential candidates. This evening I will be participating in the Nevada Republican caucus. I intend to talk people out of supporting Trump because he's the worst one to represent Republicans and almost as bad as Hillary Clinton. Trump is the worst of hypocrite blowhards who claim not to be pro-establishment politicians. He has more experience as a lobbyist and buying politicians from both parties than any candidate in history. He has also consistently used the government to prop up his business interests through corporate welfare and bankruptcy laws which forced others to pay for his business mistakes. I don't believe business owners should be allowed to abuse political influence, force taxpayers to foot their bills, and the get rich with no risk as others are forced to pay for avoidable selfish mistakes. There is too much government corruption in which the poor are forced into generational poverty through welfare and the rich use wealth redistribution as well to build their fortunes upon the grave of the middle class. If either Trump or Hillary wins, then America loses.
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Re: Switzerland: An ideal society and truest democracy?

Postby Winston » Wed Feb 24, 2016 4:09 am

Ok well some of your paragraphs are way too long vegascook. Can you please divide them up into smaller paragraphs? Thanks.
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