Freedom, Travel, Dating vs. Marriage, Family, Settling Down

[Truthville]

Winston,

I didn't say I "know" you personally, I'm only going by what you write and what I've read.

I like romantic movies myself, the old-style Hollywood type where men and women actually had respect for each other. I've never seen the "The Thornbirds" BUT I've read the book. Honestly, not one of Ms. McCullough's best works believe it or not. Winston, you should try reading her "First Man in Rome" series. Entertaining AND intellectually stimulating!

I think you and some of the others posters are confused when it comes to relationships. REAL relationships/marriages aren't servitude, they actually are a "give and take" between adults for the mutual benefit of both parties.

I probably value my freedom just as much as Winston or anyone else here does. Hence, I'm single and not married. Not desperate to be in a relationship, but would like to be with the "right" person. If not? I'm perfectly fine with that.

I hope most of you realize that to get anything of value, you have to give up something of value? Our Western culture has totally skewed and destroyed the very nature of relationships. For instance, how can you have a good, healthy relationship WHEN you are looking out only for yourself and "giving" nothing to your partner? And she is doing the same? How is that even a relationship INSTEAD of just two people using each other for the mutual benefits of themselves? That path doesn't lead to happiness of any lasting kind.

Seriously gentlemen, IF I wanted that I could go out right now and get that! Western Woman, for all everyone's bitching and moaning here, really aren't that hard to figure out and really not that hard to "get" IF you can change yourself into being what she wants you to be or what the current culture tells her you should be. I'm not going to do that and will NEVER do that. Why give up my soul/identity for a mere piece of ass?

"If he wants to waste his life away in servitude to a woman just to garner some applause from his family and female friends, so be it."

Sorry NA guy, I haven't done and never WILL do anything to "garner" applause from family or friends. I mean, whom does things like that? I 'll tell you who does; cultural slaves and "approval/attention" whores. I'm a lot of things gentlemen, but I sure as hell ain't one of them. "Social programming?" Please..........chasing after anything in a skirt is the "social programming" these days. Whom is being "socially programmed?" Not me sir!

"Beware the people who turn up their nose at their choices for they often do so out of disgust for their own circumstances."

Ahh NA guy, so true BUT I'm not "turning up my nose" at other people's choices. It's their lives, not mine. All I can do is live the life I choose to and let other people do the same. Freedom means everything to me and that also means freedom for others. Winston asked a question, I answered it according to what I believe.

I don't like the "player" lifestyle simply because I find it not compatible with my values and, truthfully, I find it meaningless. "It's all about me - My needs supersede anyone or anything else - instant gratification" kind of living. Not for me and never will be. Not knocking it so much except that people whom live lifestyles like this tend to leave lots and lots of destruction, pain and chaos on their journey to "self-fulfillment." BUT since it's all about them, no worries, right?

Peace!

[Jeygonza]

First if your relationships are not physical, then what they really are? Spending a few hours? Do you think its enough? Just work in a bar relation, you say bla bla bla she think my god I have to hear the whole conversation? why not shut up and start the action, but after ... is just that, "I've seen but I do not remember" that my friend is a connection

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're talking about. Who are you? Have you introduced yourself in the introduction board?

She's a cool DR girl. I invited her to join. She actually speaks very good English (better than she writes), is well read, knowledgeable about American culture, and is pretty bright and switched-on. She is an interesting conversationalist and has an open mind. But one thing I know she does not agree with you on is your attitude about children. She's very big into taking full responsibility. I think she is a very nice and good person too.

Jeygonza (why did you you change your user-name from Jeinmy_Paul?): Perhaps you can add some Spanish to some of your posts, especially when you wanna talk about something deeper. There are certain guys on the forum who could easily translate your meaning in a follow-up post. Just an idea.

Thanks for introducing me to the forum. But I think it is irrelevant if I write in Spanish or English because I still believe winston has a very strange view of life and relationships.

My reason for writing in the forum is to improve my writing, if I make a mistake I will not bother if you or any other corrects me. I appreciate it.


Para mi hacerlo en espanol es una tonteria, lo hago muy bien y tengo muy buena ortografia y excelente diccion al hablar, no significaria ningun reto para mi. Ademas que razon tendria escribir en espanol si todos aqui hablan ingles?

[Winston]

First if your relationships are not physical, then what they really are? Spending a few hours? Do you think its enough? Just work in a bar relation, you say bla bla bla she think my god I have to hear the whole conversation? why not shut up and start the action, but after ... is just that, "I've seen but I do not remember" that my friend is a connection

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're talking about. Who are you? Have you introduced yourself in the introduction board?

She's a cool DR girl. I invited her to join. She actually speaks very good English (better than she writes), is well read, knowledgeable about American culture, and is pretty bright and switched-on. She is an interesting conversationalist and has an open mind. But one thing I know she does not agree with you on is your attitude about children. She's very big into taking full responsibility. I think she is a very nice and good person too.

Jeygonza (why did you you change your user-name from Jeinmy_Paul?): Perhaps you can add some Spanish to some of your posts, especially when you wanna talk about something deeper. There are certain guys on the forum who could easily translate your meaning in a follow-up post. Just an idea.

Oh, well then welcome to the forum Jeygonza. Any friend of Rock's must be pretty cool. It's also nice to have new open minded females on this forum. If you disagree with me on something though, it'd be nice if you could give some reasons and examples why. Just a suggestion.

You say my views are strange. But isn't that because they contradict the social programming that you've been brought up with? You gotta understand that as a woman, you are more prone to conformity to your environment and social programming, then examining it with a critical mind. We've discussed on this forum about how women conform more to society than men do.

My views and arguments may be strange to you, but you should open up your mind and consider my points and arguments, and whether they make sense or not, and whether they are logical or not, not just reject them cause they go against convention and your social programming. You should learn to think, and I mean think outside the box, not just think "If something defies tradition or convention, then it must be wrong" which is not true thinking.

To become an intellectual and critical thinker, you've got to let go of the notion that majority=right and authority=truth and tradition=right, and learn to think for yourself. Does that make sense?

I hope you understand my point. And again, welcome to the forum. You are lucky to have met Rock. He has a great engaging personality and is a wonderful conversationalist with a lot to share.

Maybe you can write a post or thread on this forum about your country and culture sometime?

[Winston]

Freedom... ahaha.

Total freedom... the ability to do what you want, have what you want and go back on any agreement without karmic repercussions. A truly free agent. No one in history will ever get this perk, so I assume what ANYONE is talking about here is the choice of how to spend your sexual energies. You know, since no one really talked about doing anything beyond having sex. *shrugs*

"Freedom, Travel, Women vs. Marriage, Family, Responsibility"
I read that as:
"Stupidity, exercise, sex vs. slavery of own free will, sex, forced slavery"

Few humans ever get past their wanton sexual desires. Humans are sexual in nature after all.

Winston, as far as I'm concerned, if you're having a great time and are truly happy, freedom should be of no concern. Because you don't have it. You just have choices. In this world, what people conceive as freedom is really just various degrees of slavery when you think about it. Slavery to your groin. Slavery to your surroundings. Slavery to your stupidity. Slavery to your heart...

You make a good point. We are all slaves to something, either external or internal. No one can avoid that. However, my main point is that one FEELS a lot more free if one is not bound or tied up by external forces and commitments that bind your life and choices. Freedom also means letting go of attachment, both psychological and physical.

It's the feeling of freedom and not being controlled by others. That's what we are referring to here. Not just a player lifestyle.

Take note of that, Truthville.

[Winston]

Check out this quote I found. So true huh?

“Most women set out to try to change a man, and when they have changed him they don't like him.� - Marlene Dietrich

[Rock]

First if your relationships are not physical, then what they really are? Spending a few hours? Do you think its enough? Just work in a bar relation, you say bla bla bla she think my god I have to hear the whole conversation? why not shut up and start the action, but after ... is just that, "I've seen but I do not remember" that my friend is a connection

I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you're talking about. Who are you? Have you introduced yourself in the introduction board?

She's a cool DR girl. I invited her to join. She actually speaks very good English (better than she writes), is well read, knowledgeable about American culture, and is pretty bright and switched-on. She is an interesting conversationalist and has an open mind. But one thing I know she does not agree with you on is your attitude about children. She's very big into taking full responsibility. I think she is a very nice and good person too.

Jeygonza (why did you you change your user-name from Jeinmy_Paul?): Perhaps you can add some Spanish to some of your posts, especially when you wanna talk about something deeper. There are certain guys on the forum who could easily translate your meaning in a follow-up post. Just an idea.

Thanks for introducing me to the forum. But I think it is irrelevant if I write in Spanish or English because I still believe winston has a very strange view of life and relationships.

My reason for writing in the forum is to improve my writing, if I make a mistake I will not bother if you or any other corrects me. I appreciate it.


Para mi hacerlo en espanol es una tonteria, lo hago muy bien y tengo muy buena ortografia y excelente diccion al hablar, no significaria ningun reto para mi. Ademas que razon tendria escribir en espanol si todos aqui hablan ingles?

OK then. If it helps you, I may sometimes correct major mistakes or give you suggestions on how to express things better. I am a native English speaker but I think there are some others here who are more skilled at writing than I am. Anyway, I will do my best to give you helpful suggestions. Keep in mind, some of us here write quickly and get sloppy sometimes so we too may make mistakes even though its our first language. So don't be surprised if you catch something that goes against what you learned in grammar class.

I also hope you might tell us more about DR women and culture when you get the chance. I still owe a report from my recent trip. When I post it, perhaps you can add your views?

[ErikHeaven]

50 year old woman on a past job said in front of the group "I only give my husband some on his birthday, i am not kidding and that is the only time and i tell him to hurry up". I was shocked at her comment as many American women are bold like this. So yes once again married people most of the time are not having sex. My bestfriend who is going on 18 years of marriage told me him and his wife have only clocked 1 time this year!
He is 38 and she is 44. They just cannot stand each other, too many fights and what not. I am really changing as i see not benefit to marriage.
Freedom is so much better!

[Winston]

Here's what a friend told me about my question in this thread:

"Dude,

You know the reasons....it's the constant brain washing all humans go through from the time of infancy.....being told what it is what you're supposed to want and need.....our identities are all virtual constructs that most people don't even start to question til way past 40 years old...and by that time it's so ingrained that the mid-life crisis of the average person is nothing more than a confusing trade off for other bull shit they don't need or want...."

[NorthAmericanguy]

50 year old woman on a past job said in front of the group "I only give my husband some on his birthday, i am not kidding and that is the only time and i tell him to hurry up". I was shocked at her comment as many American women are bold like this. So yes once again married people most of the time are not having sex. My bestfriend who is going on 18 years of marriage told me him and his wife have only clocked 1 time this year!
He is 38 and she is 44. They just cannot stand each other, too many fights and what not. I am really changing as i see not benefit to marriage.
Freedom is so much better!

Yup!^^ Over this past summer I was working in a home of a couple where the wife was about 50 year old. She was an old mean hag with a mustache and short hair that made her look like a boy.

Story short, she told me she would cut her husbands balls off if he ever cheated on her. She was serious.


Geez, talk about being between a rock and a hard place!

[Winston]

Question:

I was wondering. What if you have needs and desires for romantic love, but also for freedom? Are they mutually exclusive desires? How do you reconcile or balance them? Is there a win-win situation without conflict?

[NorthAmericanguy]

Question:

I was wondering. What if you have needs and desires for romantic love, but also for freedom? Are they mutually exclusive desires? How do you reconcile or balance them? Is there a win-win situation without conflict?

From my research (investigating swingers, playboys and womanizers), so as long as you don't have any children, you can have romantic love and the freedom.

Sure, children can bring a couple closer together, but it seems more often then not that children grind the romance between couples down to the absolute minimum, or a halt; and furthermore, children force a couple under obligations (even to stay together as a couple), so there goes any freedom.

So the point is; DON'T HAVE CHILDREN, that way you can fly like a butterfly from one romantic fling to the next having no regrets or burdensome family obligations.

[Winston]

Have any of you tried living the life of a "family man" where your life totally revolves around your spouse and kids? If so, how was it? Was it all that society cracked it up to be?

I would imagine such an existence to be totally boring and dead, devoid of any fun, stimulation, adventure, variety, new experiences, etc. So why is it so idolized? Why is "settling down" seen as a good thing with a positive connotation that is encouraged by society and conformists?