Happier Abroad Forum Community

The dollar might collapse-- true. You might want to keep some of your money in the Euro.

The problem with gold is you have to store it, and you might not be getting 100% pure gold.

I would stay away from philipiino gold merchants, only deal with people in the US or Europe.

Is it possible to buy gold through the stock market, in a sort of investment fund or portfolio?

I hear silver is artificially low in comparison to past trends. That might be worth some investment as it will eventually start rising again, just not sure how long into the future. Then you could dump it and make a profit.

There are plenty of gold funds, but if you're going to invest in precious metals, the most safe and secure way to do so is to actually hold the gold coin in your hands.

Besides the weight in gold, certain gold and silver coins have collector's values, which add to the coin's worth. Check with coin collectors for more info.

There are many different silver and gold coins, from American Eagles to Canadian Maple Leaf and Chinese Pandas. COUNTERFEITS DO EXIST so buy from reputable dealer.

Btw, how do you buy gold? Do you go to a bank and buy physical gold and put it in a safe there? Or do you buy it online through an online trader portfolio? Is that even safe?

Winston wrote:Btw, how do you buy gold? Do you go to a bank and buy physical gold and put it in a safe there? Or do you buy it online through an online trader portfolio? Is that even safe?

There are several easy ways to invest in gold.

1. Physical gold: You can buy gold coins and the like but the spread is very wide (often as high as 5-10%) so its an expensive way to go. In Taiwan, you can do it more cheaply through the Bank of Taiwan (BOT). They sell many types of physical gold (bars and coins of various weights). For one physical product they offer, they act as a market maker - they guarantee to buy it back from you at posted bid rate as long as you keep your receipt. I believe the spread for this product is only about 0.6%. Once you buy the physical gold, you can rent a safety deposit box at any branch of BOT or other Taiwan bank which provides such service (typically the bigger branches of banks). Check out downtown Chiayi and its immediate vicinity. If you store the gold at home, its like cash and can be easily lost or stolen so not recommended. One good thing about physical gold is that you are not required to report it on the FBARs you submit each year to the Treasury Department.

2. Brokerage gold: Many banks and brokerages allow you to buy in an account. The bid/ask spreads are typically much smaller (esp. for forex brokerage accounts) so this is the cheaper way to go. But, this type of account is a financial one so you must report it each to the US as long as its value exceeds US$10,000. Also, if you eventually convert it to NT$, US$, or other currency, there will be a clear paper trail mapping out your capital gains (or losses).

3. You can buy gold funds. I don't recommend if you're buying only gold (not a portfolio of metals) due to unnecessary fees.

4. You can buy gold mining stocks but prices for these do not correlate 100% with gold price since there are additional fundamentals involved.

If you decide to buy gold, I recommend buying it outside the US no matter what way you go. Several decades ago, I believe our government forced its citizens to sell back there gold to the treasury for a fixed (well below market) price. Those who failed to do so faced draconian penalties if discovered. I know Stephan is your arch-enemy but it sounds like he is very astute about accumulating wealth and protecting it from the US government.

As long as you are monitoring gold's fluctuation rates and other precious metals, you are on the right track.

It is better to hold it in ETF's or some other gold based security. The chances of your bars being stolen are greater than not being able to liquidate your gold securities.

Plus, physical gold is not as easy to sell as the ETF.

Contrarian Expatriate wrote:It is better to hold it in ETF's or some other gold based security. The chances of your bars being stolen are greater than not being able to liquidate your gold securities.

Plus, physical gold is not as easy to sell as the ETF.

Well for Americans who fear the what the US government might do in the future, it might make sense to buy and store physical gold overseas. FDR did everything he could to force Americans to sell all their gold stocks to the US Treasury at fixed (read way below market) prices back in 1933. People who got caught with illicit gold after that faced draconian penalties and punishment, especially through to WWII. Order was finally officially repealed in 1974.

Now its easy to buy gold ETFs in an overseas brokerage account. Or you can open an overseas forex account and buy and/or sell spot gold with razor thin transaction costs. But, you (onshore or offshore US person) are required to disclose details of all foreign financial accounts you hold to US Treasury each year and trading gains or losses to the IRS. So the government can effectively monitory your gold holdings this way. However, if you buy physical gold overseas and stash it into a safety deposit box, there are absolutely no reporting requirements unless you sell it and make a profit (which would need to be reported to IRS). And even then, you could probably just call it an 'asset sale' or 'jewelry sale' on your tax forms.

Here in Taiwan, you can buy physical gold from the Bank of Taiwan and as long as you retain the receipt they give you with it, you have the right to sell it back to them at any time at international spot based market prices posted online 24/7. Buy and sell spreads for these types of special bars are under 1% so its not that expensive. Even if you lose the receipt, there are plenty of gold vendors who will buy it from you for a slightly higher markdown. And safety deposit boxes in the big banks here are quite secure but also totally private. Even the local governments do not keep records of box owners, just financial account holders.

I know a repeat of the FDR stunt sounds unlikely. But, there are signs that US government is acting irrationally again. Since 2009, US government has used an old law to nail a lot of negligent Americans overseas, sometimes with confiscatory penalties. Those who fought faced jail time and even higher fines.

Back in 2005 I picked up like 35 ounces of silver for $7 odd an ounce. I just sold those 35 ounces for over a grand a few months ago. Wife and I decided to keep the gold. Who knows where the top is on gold? I would not be surprised to see $5000 an ounce for gold in the next 10 years.

Gold is slowly going down the charts while silver is climbing up. That only proves that gold's resources are almost depleted.

Try goldmoney.com. You can buy gold that is physically allocated to you and is held in reserve 100%. ETF's trade paper gold, which is oversold by a 100:1 ratio. Which means that if everyone demands physical delivery, everyone that has paper gold is only going to get 1% back.

You should always have around 20% of your assets in gold and silver. But you shouldn't keep more than that percentage in any asset class.

Harry Browne recommends in 'Fail Safe Investing' to put 25% in gold, 25% in stocks, 25% in bonds, and 25% in money market. Over the last 40 years, such a portfolio has gained an average of 9% per year, and has only had a loss in 3 of those years.

If you did that for the last 10 years (like Ron Paul did) you beat just about EVERYBODY.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/benzingains ... -investor/

It will probably fall when the market crashes again but that's when you should be buying.

American eagle coins, not bars. Bars too hard to unload due to counterfeits. You want something people know and isn't too big. Who is going to buy or accept a 10oz bar in trade when they can't verify that it's real? It's like going to Mickey Ds with a 100 dollar bil.

Try apmex and TAKE PHYSICAL POSSESSION. When the world economy disintigrates you're going to find out all those "storage" facilities aren't holding shit and it it is it will be confiscated. Forget ETFs and all that other nonsense, you pay like 28% tax on that and you can bet there isn't any gold to back that up - that's the next ponzi.

I would not put all my assets into gold, you need plenty of cash to ride out the dips. You need silver too. Do you want to have to trade an ounce of gold for a loaf of bread? How do you get change for that Einstein? You need "small bills" too.

You don't want to put yourself into a position where you are forced to sell at a loss. Remember nothing ever goes up all the time or down all the time.

I bought silver when it was at $20 an ounce, then it fell to below $10. Then it went up to 50 and now it's down to 30. I could ride that out because I didn't need to sell to pay my rent. If you don't have that kind of money you're better off storing food.

I didn't sell at 50 because I know that isn't the top, not by a long shot.

shgrunewald wrote:Gold is slowly going down the charts while silver is climbing up. That only proves that gold's resGurces are almost depleted.

That's not really an accurate statement. Gold has been breaking record after record. It may be down this week but that sounds crazy to me. Silver was at 50 this summer, now it's at 30. Hello?

Gold (and silver) generally goes down when the market goes down. Hedge funds sell gold to cover their losses and the price goes down.

I'm thinking this fall commodities will get smacked down 2007 style when the market tanks again. That will be your next buying opportunity, buy with both hands.

When the market recovers I think we'll see sky high commodity prices across the board as the dollar disintigrates.

Alex predicts economic crash and reset. See below. Should we all convert our dollars to gold and silver now? See below.

[6/24, 12:54 PM] Alex From Venice: anyway, get ready to a global worldwide reset of the financial markets and currencies
[6/24, 12:55 PM] Alex From Venice: it's gonna happen maybe next year
[6/24, 12:56 PM] Alex From Venice: our lives will be totally different
[6/24, 12:56 PM] Winston Wu: What happens after the reset? All our money will be worthless?
[6/24, 12:58 PM] Alex From Venice: yes, very close to that
[6/24, 12:58 PM] Alex From Venice: basically everyone will have to live with a twenty time smaller income or savings
[6/24, 12:59 PM] Alex From Venice: real estate market will also lose 90% of it's current nominal face value
[6/24, 12:59 PM] Winston Wu: But even if so the costs and prices must go down too right?
[6/24, 1:00 PM] Alex From Venice: no... income will stay same, prices will go sky rocket high
[6/24, 1:00 PM] Alex From Venice: but many will lose their income as well
[6/24, 1:01 PM] Winston Wu: Why would prices be high?
[6/24, 1:01 PM] Winston Wu: Gas prices in america are already lower.
[6/24, 1:02 PM] Alex From Venice: because currencies will lose value
[6/24, 1:02 PM] Winston Wu: A man like hitler could fix such problems in Germany quickly. Like hyperinflation.
[6/24, 1:02 PM] Alex From Venice: but goods will keep their value
[6/24, 1:03 PM] Alex From Venice: so to pay the same value with a currency that lost value you need more currency units
[6/24, 1:04 PM] Alex From Venice: you can fix by declaring null the savings deposited in the banks
[6/24, 1:04 PM] Winston Wu: Like in 1920s Germany?
[6/24, 1:05 PM] Alex From Venice: so either you keep the currency value by erasing currency amounts, or the price will increase
[6/24, 1:05 PM] Winston Wu: Shouldn't we exchange our money for gold now?
[6/24, 1:05 PM] Winston Wu: Gold and silver?
[6/24, 1:05 PM] Alex From Venice: definitely
[6/24, 1:06 PM] Winston Wu: How do u do that?
[6/24, 1:06 PM] Alex From Venice: there are brokers