Investing in Silver?

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SilverEnergy
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Re: Investing in Silver?

Post by SilverEnergy »

fschmidt wrote:
Rock wrote:Have you looked at global industrial use demand for silver and how much it fluctuates according to global economy? How much does it vary at low and high points in a given cycle? Like, does demand fall 20% or more? There's been a lot of noise in last year about China slowing down and with it, demand for copper and other industrial metals. You also gotta consider the stock situation in China. Look at these relationships over time. Also see if you can find a chart of silver price vs. mining cost over time. If you can get this data, you will have a much better insight as to how safe a silver investment would be now or at what price that investment would seem acceptably low risk. Intrinsic value arguments don't always work in financial markets. Often, things trade way about it. But sometimes, they trade well below it. Consider the example of many closed-end funds. And also consider, mining cost may vary a lot depending on many factors. So if price stays low too long, the mines with highest cost could go out of business while the ones who had easier (cheaper) to mine reserves could continue to do so at their lower cost.

Once you get a target price, you could look to either buy at that level (assuming it gets reached) or just sell uncovered options at that price level with view to buy if price ever gets there. If it doesn't, at least you've been paid the option premium and if it does, you get silver at the price you wanted.

If you do any research on this, please share it here. I would be willing to contribute to the effort.
My view may not be popular here in conspiracy land, but I will tell you all the things that make no difference to me: industrial demand, market manipulation, investment demand, and the future of fiat currencies. There is only one thing that matters to me, and that is the long term cost of mining silver. Industrial demand just determines when existing supplies will be used up, not if. The idea about shutting down more expensive mines and just running cheaper mines to lower costs is also temporary because these lower cost mines will eventually run out. I am patient and I can wait as long as it takes for the cost of finding new silver to kick in.

An interesting aspect of silver is that the yield, meaning ounces of silver per ton of dirt dug up, has been declining rapidly. It was 13.0 in 2005 and 8.1 in 2012. This decreasing yield has to drive prices up over time.

Most silver fans say silver is money. This is nonsense. Silver is an industrial metal and that is why I like it. Gold is money, and that is why I don't like it. The value of money is simply the value people feel it has. I don't like investing in feelings. What I like about silver is that it is the most easily storable useful material around, so it is a good store of value.
Both silver and gold have been used as money in the past. The value of gold or silver will never reach zero.

According to Noble Laureate, the major monetary metal in the history of the world is silver, NOT gold.
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SilverEnergy
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Post by SilverEnergy »

For those of you hoping to invest in silver once it gets even lower, silver went up to $20 an ounce.

Sure, it could go back down but one day, it's going to start rising rapidly again.

For every second you wait, the Federal Reserve continues to print the toxic U.S. Dollar.
"Allow me to show you the Power Cosmic!" - Silver Surfer
Moretorque
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Post by Moretorque »

SilverEnergy wrote:For those of you hoping to invest in silver once it gets even lower, silver went up to $20 an ounce.

Sure, it could go back down but one day, it's going to start rising rapidly again.

For every second you wait, the Federal Reserve continues to print the toxic U.S. Dollar.

just out of curiosity, what do you make of all this. When I first got on the net and stumbled across all this about 12 years ago I saw where Bill Gates bought a silver mine and I then researched it and realized 10 years ago silver was a great investment after researching all it's properties but I myself personally feel it is time we grow up and curb the destruction of our children's world in the name of profit.

If we do not stop the destruction of the eco system it will be like Judas with 30 pieces of silver but they will have no purpose. It is just a hunk of dead metal, I think we need to start investing in saving the life here on earth?

Now if you don't mind I am off to have my morning Steak n Egg's.
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Teal Lantern
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Re: Investing in Silver?

Post by Teal Lantern »

fschmidt wrote:
Teal Lantern wrote:@fschmidt: Shares, vault certificates, or physical w/delivery?
SIVR
Since you're just tracking the paper price (via shares) and willing to buy and hold, then yes, it's as safe as the overall stock market.
I've read the prospectuses of a couple of these before, and for the number of "outs" they give themselves wrt the silver (or gold) they supposedly hold, you may as well consider it a strictly paper-price play.

Not quite your situation, but to give you an example of their underhandedness, one outfit was caught charging customers storage fees for silver that didn't exist. :twisted:
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Moretorque
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Post by Moretorque »

That is generally the point I am making, everything is getting to be so corrupt, childish and plain evil. We sit around and play all these games while the whole eco system burns to the ground. You can't eat silver.
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SilverEnergy
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Post by SilverEnergy »

Moretorque wrote:That is generally the point I am making, everything is getting to be so corrupt, childish and plain evil. We sit around and play all these games while the whole eco system burns to the ground. You can't eat silver.
If you think you have a chance to save the eco system, you are delusional.

It's too late to change the direction of the world. You're not going to save it, the politicians aren't going to save it and the government isn't going to save it.

Our government is BROKE.

Can't eat silver?

But in a financial crisis silver will ENABLE you to eat once your precious fiat currency is printed into oblivion.

The eco system isn't going anywhere right now.

The market collapse is going to occur within the next decade.

You think you have plenty of time to buy but you don't.

Silver protects your wealth in a financial crisis.

Plus, you aren't going to make too much difference in the way things are going.

The elite own this world and most of the masses are screwed.

You can waste time trying to save the environment but the market collapse will occur before you even get the chance.

Plus, unless you can inspire the masses to change their way of thinking and even be prepared to KILL to restore things you order.....you can forget it.

You're going on your own blind opinion despite the evidence that is all around us.

You are in a losing battle if you think you can save things, the best you can do is to SAVE YOURSELF.

You'll be the one suffering once your worthless paper returns to its true value of zero.

I'm not saying just to buy silver but you should do other things like buy food and water storages.

You don't stand a chance in hell of thwarting the elite's plans.

Really though, I don't want any of you to buy silver because I want more of it for myself.

You say you can't eat silver.

When food prices are 4x what they are now, you're going to barely be able to eat with a toxic U.S. dollar.

We possible have only years until an economic collapse and you are saying to save the eco system???

What are you, the Planeteers???

You ain't gonna be able to do sh** to change the way things are going.

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwQdY2URIAM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll1TrNyF9jw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxYMM_0cFQk
Last edited by SilverEnergy on July 22nd, 2013, 12:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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SilverEnergy
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Re: Investing in Silver?

Post by SilverEnergy »

Teal Lantern wrote:
fschmidt wrote:
Teal Lantern wrote:@fschmidt: Shares, vault certificates, or physical w/delivery?
SIVR
Since you're just tracking the paper price (via shares) and willing to buy and hold, then yes, it's as safe as the overall stock market.
I've read the prospectuses of a couple of these before, and for the number of "outs" they give themselves wrt the silver (or gold) they supposedly hold, you may as well consider it a strictly paper-price play.

Not quite your situation, but to give you an example of their underhandedness, one outfit was caught charging customers storage fees for silver that didn't exist. :twisted:
The stock, bond and mutual fund markets will collapse when the economic disaster occurs.

The stock market is manipulated like a puppet by Wall Street.

I wouldn't invest in any silver stocks or silver etfs.

Physical silver is the way to go.

The biggest stock crash is definitely coming.

I know it's very hard to accept but it's every man for himself now.

Every time we print a U.S. dollar, the dollar decreases in value. The U.S. is currently printing 85 billion dollars a month.

Our printing presses are on crack.

Only your creativity, mind and ideas will guarantee your survival in the upcoming decade.

You gotta mainly look out for yourself and your family..........if you have one.

Always do your research, TRUST NO ONE and SAVE YOURSELF first and foremost.
"Allow me to show you the Power Cosmic!" - Silver Surfer
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Teal Lantern
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Re: Investing in Silver?

Post by Teal Lantern »

SilverEnergy wrote: The stock, bond and mutual fund markets will collapse when the economic disaster occurs.

The stock market is manipulated like a puppet by Wall Street.

I wouldn't invest in any silver stocks or silver etfs.

Physical silver is the way to go.

The biggest stock crash is definitely coming.

I know it's very hard to accept but it's every man for himself now.

Every time we print a U.S. dollar, the dollar decreases in value. The U.S. is currently printing 85 billion dollars a month.

Our printing presses are on crack.

Only your creativity, mind and ideas will guarantee your survival in the upcoming decade.

You gotta mainly look out for yourself and your family..........if you have one.

Always do your research, TRUST NO ONE and SAVE YOURSELF first and foremost.
I'm in general agreement with you, SE. 8)
I was responding to fschmidt's idea strictly in the context of his own comfort level, that's why I said "as safe as the overall stock market", like saying 'nice cabin, but is the ship safe?'

Plenty of people still trust Wall Street (or at least figure the Working Group on Financial Markets aka Plunge Protection Team won't let it fall too fast), while others see Cyprus, MFGlobal, PFGBest, etc. as test beds and preludes.
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Moretorque
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Post by Moretorque »

We know it's all going to collapse the system was designed that way on purpose and there is no saving yourself, as Hank Williams said nobody gets out of here alive although rumor has it there may be a few cosmonauts still floating about in space from the space era when Russian engineering got the best of them but other than that nobody gets out of here alive dammit!

Look, the US is not broke, it will be broke once people have had enough of the con, this is a Fascist command economy that cannot go broke it can just debase and collapse which is the same as going broke but in a literal fashion.

The Elite own the world by their legal fiction and their ability to enforce fraud at gunpoint, I am not going to say how this will go but I do not believe things will pan out for silver and gold buffs as they hope. I believe prices will go up but it will only bear what the demand is and for money for all I believe it's a relic as one of the Rothschild's said.

Sometimes I wonder who the bigger fascist are the counterfeiters or the people who insist we use gold and silver for payment. I can see the fiat empire collapsing to be replaced by a new statist system where the rulers keep all the weapons systems in tact in order to enfocre the use of the two metals for payment on goods and services.
Last edited by Moretorque on July 22nd, 2013, 1:34 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Investing in Silver?

Post by fschmidt »

Teal Lantern wrote:Since you're just tracking the paper price (via shares) and willing to buy and hold, then yes, it's as safe as the overall stock market.
I've read the prospectuses of a couple of these before, and for the number of "outs" they give themselves wrt the silver (or gold) they supposedly hold, you may as well consider it a strictly paper-price play.

Not quite your situation, but to give you an example of their underhandedness, one outfit was caught charging customers storage fees for silver that didn't exist. :twisted:
Please tell me what "out" SIVR has.

Here is an overview of the silver ETFs:

http://www.etftrends.com/2011/03/the-si ... d-to-head/

I prefer SIVR to SLV because SIVR has a lower expense ratio and because it has a randomly scheduled audit.
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Teal Lantern
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Re: Investing in Silver?

Post by Teal Lantern »

fschmidt wrote:
Teal Lantern wrote:Since you're just tracking the paper price (via shares) and willing to buy and hold, then yes, it's as safe as the overall stock market.
I've read the prospectuses of a couple of these before, and for the number of "outs" they give themselves wrt the silver (or gold) they supposedly hold, you may as well consider it a strictly paper-price play.

Not quite your situation, but to give you an example of their underhandedness, one outfit was caught charging customers storage fees for silver that didn't exist. :twisted:
Please tell me what "out" SIVR has.

Here is an overview of the silver ETFs:

http://www.etftrends.com/2011/03/the-si ... d-to-head/

I prefer SIVR to SLV because SIVR has a lower expense ratio and because it has a randomly scheduled audit.
Sure. I found this ...
http://quicktake.morningstar.com/fundne ... ymbol=sivr

They list the "risk factors" in their prospectus, from pgs 6~11.
http://quote.morningstar.com/fund-filin ... 069ec385d6

Don't take that as me saying, "oh, they're gonna rip you off",
only that they cover themselves in the event the paper price and the physical price diverge in a way that shareholders don't like.
They cover themselves for a lot of events. :shock:
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fschmidt
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Re: Investing in Silver?

Post by fschmidt »

Teal Lantern wrote:@fschmidt: Shares, vault certificates, or physical w/delivery?
I am just curious what you would suggest as better than SIVR which charges 0.3% per year. I would like to buy 100,000 ounces.
Moretorque
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Re: Investing in Silver?

Post by Moretorque »

fschmidt wrote:
Teal Lantern wrote:@fschmidt: Shares, vault certificates, or physical w/delivery?
I am just curious what you would suggest as better than SIVR which charges 0.3% per year. I would like to buy 100,000 ounces.
You should not be posting that stuff on the internet.
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fschmidt
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Re: Investing in Silver?

Post by fschmidt »

Moretorque wrote: You should not be posting that stuff on the internet.
Why? This isn't enough to have any impact on the market.

By the way, I will take a close look at PSLV today.
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Teal Lantern
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Re: Investing in Silver?

Post by Teal Lantern »

fschmidt wrote:
Teal Lantern wrote:@fschmidt: Shares, vault certificates, or physical w/delivery?
I am just curious what you would suggest as better than SIVR which charges 0.3% per year. I would like to buy 100,000 ounces.
For your flexibility goals, time scale, & account size, I think the ETF may already be your best choice.
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