Join John Adams, world renowned Intl Matchmaker, Monday nights 8:30 EST for Live Webcasts!
And check out Five Reasons why you should attend a FREE AFA Seminar! See locations and dates here.



View Active Topics       View Your Posts       Latest 100 Topics       FAQ Topics       Mobile Friendly Theme


Hugo Chavez dead--Hero or villan?

Discuss issues related to government, politics, and law.

Moderators: fschmidt, jamesbond

Hugo Chavez--Hero or Villan?

Villan
4
36%
Hero
7
64%
 
Total votes: 11

zboy1
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 4596
Joined: October 4th, 2007, 5:33 am

Hugo Chavez dead--Hero or villan?

Post by zboy1 » March 6th, 2013, 2:25 am

Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez dies
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/05/world ... index.html

Hugo Chavez's death draws sympathy, anger
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/05/world ... ?hpt=hp_t1


The Five Sheds No Tears Over Hugo Chavez' Death On Fox: Won't 'Be Missed By Anybody'


Larry King Live : 2009: Hugo Chavez says Bush sent assassins

Jester
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 7875
Joined: January 20th, 2009, 10:10 am
Location: Chiang Mai Thailand

Post by Jester » March 6th, 2013, 5:03 am

Off the top of my head...........

PLUSES:
---At the U.N., he called George Bush the devil, did it with humor, and got applause.
---He made the sign of the cross at the U.N., don't know who else has.
---He defeated a CIA coup.
---He wisely avoided nationalizing the Rockefeller-owned oil refinery, and thus avoided a U.S. invasion.
---His government refused visas to Israeli "athletes" (spies) who wanted to go rafting or something.
---He raided a Mossad safe house (I forget the details - maybe it was a "school" or "foundation"). He refused to be Isael's bitch.
---Told a U.S. car company he would nationalize their factory and lease it to the Japanese if they closed it down and started importing trucks from elsewhere. (He was an economic nationalist, fighting for local manufacturing jobs.)
---He banned "The Simpsons" from television, outraged by its anti-male, anti-family propaganda.
---He dated Miss Venezuela. He was thoroughly straight, unilke Obama and the Bushes.

NEGATIVES:
Ridiculous crime rate in Caracas.

OVERALL:
He was a better Christian than any U.S. president since Jack Kennedy. Not perfect, but a good man for the times we are in. May he rest in peace.

*************

EDIT: "Chinese", not "Japanese".
Last edited by Jester on March 8th, 2013, 5:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

zacb
Experienced Poster
Posts: 1536
Joined: June 21st, 2012, 4:33 am
Location: Somewhere out in the American West (for now)

Post by zacb » March 6th, 2013, 5:16 am

Both. I give him credit for trying to take on the neo-cons. And at least he tried to help his people. But having said that, his economics are dumb. I feel bad for the people, since they are damned if they vote left or right (socialist vs nwo)
The Daily Agorist, Learn to Live Independent of the System! http://www.theagoristreview.blogspot.com

User avatar
Cornfed
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 6388
Joined: August 17th, 2012, 5:22 am

Post by Cornfed » March 6th, 2013, 5:25 am

He may or may not have been a bad guy behind the scenes, but on the face of it, he was a great guy for standing up against the Kosher Nostra and in favor of his own people.

zboy1
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 4596
Joined: October 4th, 2007, 5:33 am

Post by zboy1 » March 6th, 2013, 5:27 am

zacb wrote:Both. I give him credit for trying to take on the neo-cons. And at least he tried to help his people. But having said that, his economics are dumb. I feel bad for the people, since they are damned if they vote left or right (socialist vs nwo)
Yes, my thoughts exactly. The NWO was all over his ass because he actually cared about his own people rather than caving-in to the demands of the corporate industrial complex, and for greatly reducing poverty in his country (which he largely accomplished). On the other hand, he was your typical Latin American tinpot dictator who squelched many of the freedoms of the Venezuelan people.

gsjackson
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2147
Joined: June 12th, 2010, 3:08 pm
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Contact:

Post by gsjackson » March 6th, 2013, 5:35 am

Jester wrote:Off the top of my head...........

PLUSES:
---At the U.N., he called George Bush the devil, did it with humor, and got applause.
---He made the sign of the cross at the U.N., don't know who else has.
---He defeated a CIA coup.
---He wisely avoided nationalizing the Rockefeller-owned oil refinery, and thus avoided a U.S. invasion.
---His government refused visas to Israeli "athletes" (spies) who wanted to go rafting or something.
---He raided a Mossad safe house (I forget the details - maybe it was a "school" or "foundation"). He refused to be Isael's bitch.
---Told a U.S. car company he would nationalize their factory and lease it to the Japanese if they closed it down and started importing trucks from elsewhere. (He was an economic nationalist, fighting for local manufacturing jobs.)
---He banned "The Simpsons" from television, outraged by its anti-male, anti-family propaganda.
---He dated Miss Venezuela. He was thoroughly straight, unilke Obama and the Bushes.

NEGATIVES:
Ridiculous crime rate in Caracas.

OVERALL:
He was a better Christian than any U.S. president since Jack Kennedy. Not perfect, but a good man for the times we are in. May he rest in peace.
+1. One of the real leaders of our time. He walked tall. It was especially refreshing to see him ridiculing Bush when the U.S. media were still in full courtier mode toward the great war chieftain.

Dr Smart
Freshman Poster
Posts: 6
Joined: March 5th, 2013, 8:05 am

Post by Dr Smart » March 6th, 2013, 6:26 am

He fought for his people. It's the PEOPLE that matters. Capitalism, socialism, libertarianism, democracy, one-man rule... all that is secondary.

Dr Smart
Freshman Poster
Posts: 6
Joined: March 5th, 2013, 8:05 am

Post by Dr Smart » March 6th, 2013, 6:30 am

zacb wrote: But having said that, his economics are dumb.
Venezuela isn't America. We can criticize him from the sidelines, but what matters is if he tried to help his own people. That's the measure of a leader's greatness.

Jester
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 7875
Joined: January 20th, 2009, 10:10 am
Location: Chiang Mai Thailand

Post by Jester » March 6th, 2013, 6:46 am

Cornfed wrote:...the Kosher Nostra....
:lol:

There we have it... what to call it...

zacb
Experienced Poster
Posts: 1536
Joined: June 21st, 2012, 4:33 am
Location: Somewhere out in the American West (for now)

Post by zacb » March 6th, 2013, 7:20 am

Dr Smart wrote:
zacb wrote: But having said that, his economics are dumb.
Venezuela isn't America. We can criticize him from the sidelines, but what matters is if he tried to help his own people. That's the measure of a leader's greatness.
Like I said, I respect him for trying to his people, I just think it is a situation where he may have been sincere, but sincerely wrong. And yes, I know I am commenting on a foreign country. It is just my opinion.
The Daily Agorist, Learn to Live Independent of the System! http://www.theagoristreview.blogspot.com

OutWest
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2377
Joined: March 19th, 2011, 8:09 am
Location: Asia/USA

Re: Hugo Chavez dead--Hero or villan?

Post by OutWest » March 6th, 2013, 8:51 am

zboy1 wrote:Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez dies
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/05/world ... index.html

Hugo Chavez's death draws sympathy, anger
http://edition.cnn.com/2013/03/05/world ... ?hpt=hp_t1


The Five Sheds No Tears Over Hugo Chavez' Death On Fox: Won't 'Be Missed By Anybody'


Larry King Live : 2009: Hugo Chavez says Bush sent assassins

Standing up for the poor is very profitable. Since he began his rule, about 100 billion has been stolen from the national treasury via the national oil company or PVDSA.

Tsar
Veteran Poster
Posts: 2030
Joined: August 7th, 2012, 8:40 pm
Location: Somwhere, Maine

Post by Tsar » March 7th, 2013, 12:11 am

Hugo Chavez was a great man and he fought against Americanism, American Imperialism, and American exploitation. He helped his people, reduced poverty, and I read that he kept gasoline at $0.13/gallon for his people. Hugo Chavez donated $500 million worth of heating oil to poor Americans every year. Joe Kennedy ran commercials thanking Hugo Chavez. All the corporations involved in oil refused to donate any oil to poor Americans.

Hugo Chavez's actions demonstrate that he was not anti-American, it demonstrates that he was anti-U.S. Government. Most people everywhere in the world are anti-U.S. government. I can say I pledge NO allegiance to the flag or the government of the United States of America, I pledge my allegiance to myself and in the future I will pledge my allegiance to a respectable nation where people are treated with decency.

Freedom is useless unless a person can survive comfortably and have a reasonable lifestyle.

In America: protests and assembled face a police crackdown. If a person speaks out against homosexuality, feminism, pro-Christianity, against abortion, anti-war, anti-Israel, or they have anti-Americanism views they are instantly shunned and people try to publicly shame them. It can also destroy some career prospects. In America, the tax system is broken and favors corporations. There goes the freedom of assembly and the freedom of speech. Regarding freedom of religion, the founding fathers intended America to preserve it's Christian roots and keep them in public life (they did not want a state Church. They also wanted people to be free to be able to select and practice their own religion). Currently, Christians are attacked and mocked in America. Atheist groups sue schools because children sing songs with the word "God," "Lord," or "Jesus" in the lyrics. They want memorials with crosses removed off public property and nativity scenes removed off public property around Christmas. In Rhode Island for a few years the current Governor censored "Christmas Tree" calling it a "Holiday Tree" but at the same time he called the Menorah by name. So Christians have the least religious freedom in America because Christianity is constantly attacked. Then there will likely be a crackdown on gun ownership. The Patriot Act, NDAA, and SOPA (removing the right to privacy, the right to a trial by jury, the right to a speedy trial, the government no longer needs a warrant to arrest you, Americans can be assassinated, and removing the right to be protected from unreasonable search and seizures). The TSA molests people in airports, they steal, they try to inconvenience people, and there is unreasonable searches. People do not have the right to know what they are eating (no GMO labeling). Drones are in the sky to be used to spy on people. The right to vote is completely useless (two party system, only a Republican or Democrat has a real chance of being elected; and even beyond that, there is the electoral college that ultimately has the deciding vote). When you think about it, America offers very little freedoms to people and constantly strips them away.

I know I would prefer to live under a popular dictator that protects the people rather than a plutocratic, corporatist, fascist republic like America. Do not speak out or criticize the dictator, do not protest the dictator, and do not speak negatively about the respective country. Those are some easy freedoms to give up for many other protections and rights. Here in America, the government, the corporations, and the rich are all take-take-take and they do not give anything to the people (except unemployment, high cost of living, dollar debasement, extortionate prices, a broken tax code, crumbling national infrastructure, unjust wars, and the list of things America gives to it's people goes on and on).

Huge Chavez is a real hero to Venezuelans and to Americans.
Last edited by Tsar on March 7th, 2013, 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

abcdavid01
Experienced Poster
Posts: 1580
Joined: November 18th, 2012, 7:52 am
Location: On the run

Post by abcdavid01 » March 7th, 2013, 1:10 am

Tsar wrote:Freedom is useless unless a person can survive comfortably and have a reasonable lifestyle.

I know I would prefer to live under a popular dictator that protects the people rather than a plutocratic, corporatist, fascist republic like America. Do not speak out or criticize the dictator, do not protest the dictator, and do not speak negatively about the respective country. Those are some easy freedoms to give up for many other protections and rights. Here in America, the government, the corporations, and the rich are all take-take-take and they do not give anything to the people (except unemployment, high cost of living, dollar debasement, extortionate prices, a broken tax code, crumbling national infrastructure, unjust wars, and the list of things America gives to it's people goes on and on).
+1000

This is called Reactionism. Very few people recognize these truths, at least in America.
中国人万岁! 中国美女万岁!

Jester
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 7875
Joined: January 20th, 2009, 10:10 am
Location: Chiang Mai Thailand

Re: Hugo Chavez dead--Hero or villan?

Post by Jester » March 7th, 2013, 4:48 am

OutWest wrote:

Standing up for the poor is very profitable. Since he began his rule, about 100 billion has been stolen from the national treasury via the national oil company or PVDSA.
Apparently the source for this 2010 story is a "company" called CJIA. Here's what I found via Gogle translate:

"Jerry Brewer, director of economic intelligence company Criminal Justice International Associates, based in North Miami and Virginia, said three years ago that the fortunes of Hugo Chavez Frias at 2,000 million dollars. Studying CJIA, company that has an office in Caracas and in other Latin American capitals, was picked up in an article published on July 26, 2010."

http://translate.google.com/translate?h ... s-20130306

And here's what passes for a website for this shady, stinking CIA cutout:

https://sites.google.com/a/cjiausa.us/www/

My dad did a few projects for the CIA as well as many for DoD, and I am proud of his contribution to shattering the Soviet Union. Since then, the evil streaks in the CIA have metastasized and become pervasive. Phony-baloney CIA disinformation may or may not have served the good in the past. Today they are vermin - and should be treated as vermin.

The situation has changed. All of us from a right-wing background need to examine carefully the sources we read.

Jester
Elite Upper Class Poster
Posts: 7875
Joined: January 20th, 2009, 10:10 am
Location: Chiang Mai Thailand

Post by Jester » March 7th, 2013, 4:56 am

Tsar wrote:
In America: protests and assembled face a police crackdown. If a person speaks out against homosexuality, feminism, pro-Christianity, against abortion, anti-war, anti-Israel, or they have anti-Americanism views they are instantly shunned and people try to publicly shame them. It can also destroy some career prospects. In America, the tax system is broken and favors corporations. There goes the freedom of assembly and the freedom of speech. Regarding freedom of religion, the founding fathers intended America to preserve it's Christian roots and keep them in public life (they did not want a state Church. They also wanted people to be free to be able to select and practice their own religion). Currently, Christians are attacked and mocked in America. Atheist groups sue schools because children sing songs with the word "God," "Lord," or "Jesus" in the lyrics. They want memorials with crosses removed off public property and nativity scenes removed off public property around Christmas. In Rhode Island for a few years the current Governor censored "Christmas Tree" calling it a "Holiday Tree" but at the same time he called the Menorah by name. So Christians have the least religious freedom in America because Christianity is constantly attacked. Then there will likely be a crackdown on gun ownership. The Patriot Act, NDAA, and SOPA (removing the right to privacy, the right to a trial by jury, the right to a speedy trial, the government no longer needs a warrant to arrest you, Americans can be assassinated, and removing the right to be protected from unreasonable search and seizures). The TSA molests people in airports, they steal, they try to inconvenience people, and there is unreasonable searches. People do not have the right to know what they are eating (no GMO labeling). Drones are in the sky to be used to spy on people. The right to vote is completely useless (two party system, only a Republican or Democrat has a real chance of being elected; and even beyond that, there is the electoral college that ultimately has the deciding vote). When you think about it, America offers very little freedoms to people and constantly strips them away.

I know I would prefer to live under a popular dictator that protects the people rather than a plutocratic, corporatist, fascist republic like America. Do not speak out or criticize the dictator, do not protest the dictator, and do not speak negatively about the respective country. Those are some easy freedoms to give up for many other protections and rights. Here in America, the government, the corporations, and the rich are all take-take-take and they do not give anything to the people (except unemployment, high cost of living, dollar debasement, extortionate prices, a broken tax code, crumbling national infrastructure, unjust wars, and the list of things America gives to it's people goes on and on).

Huge Chavez is a real hero to Venezuelans and to Americans.
I am so proud of young guys like you and ABCDavid.

Post Reply
  • Similar Topics
    Replies
    Views
    Last post

Return to “Government, Politics, Law”