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Gun Control: Why do Americans oppose it religiously?

Discuss issues related to government, politics, and law.

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w.p.o.
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Re: Gun Control: Why do Americans oppose it religiously?

Post by w.p.o. » August 4th, 2016, 3:01 pm

Winston wrote:I've been meaning to ask about something for a long time. I don't get the whole Gun Control debate. Why is everyone in the conspiracy movement, alternative media and all right wingers, libertarians and conservatives, against Gun Control so much? What is wrong with it?
The framers (inspired by John Locke) brainstormed like crazy to come up with a document which would set the US far apart from any other country in history (unfortunately the suggestion of term limits were rejected). Being under british rule left a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Under the King's rules, one couldn't express him/herself freely, therefore they came up with the 1st amendment: right to free speech/expression/religion. The 2nd amendment (right to bear arms) was even more important, as it allows oneself to protect him/herself and property. The second amendment is crucial as it prevents a holocaust!! Isreal has definitely learned from history. Take a trip to isreal, and you'll see almost everyone walking the streets with AK-47s wrapped around their shoulders and pistols on their sides. When they say "never again" they mean it. Look at the other countries where it's constitution doesn't include a right to bear arms. They are sitting ducks for either a holocaust or a group of radical islamists wanting to wreck havoc.

Commies/socialists/fascists in american have been trying to repeal the 2nd amendment since the 60s (perhaps before then). As you know totalitarianists are nothing but bullies. Like a bully, they can't fight worth a damn and usually pick fights with weak opponents. They understand an armed society is one not to mess with. No one in their right mind would try to rob a police station or try something in a shooting range. They would rather go after soft targets such as a movie theater or any 'sanctuary' area. The no-gun zones are basically sitting duck zones. The communist agenda in the US since the 60s was to first get rid of guns. That is their biggest hurdle. Without banning guns, their plan to "fundamentally transform america" (as obama once said in his '08 campaign) will never have a chance. Commies are no fan of the US constitution. They hate it and must abolish it by any means necessary. Sharia Law is also incompatible with the US constitution. Therefore, communists and the muslim brotherhood have much in common. Btw, hilary rotten clinton is not only a card carrying communist (confirmed by former coworkers), she is also in bed with the muslim brotherhood! Just another reason to vote for Trump.

BEWARE when you here the phrase "gun control." First of all, when buying a gun, there is ALREADY an extremely thorough background check. This background check can last anywhere from 30 minutes to 48 hours! Keep in mind, you need a license to carry also. With the very detailed background check, why gun control (when they're already is one)? When liberals/progressives (phrases hijacked by commies) refer to gun control, that's code for gun ban!! Remember the commie agenda. France (a socialist country under Hollande) has some of the strictest "gun control" laws in the world. That's why their being attacked day in and day out. Of course the refugee crisis doesn't help it, but at least give the people the ability to protect themselves. But that's like doing something right.

Mao Tsedung
Hitler
Stalin
Pol Pot
Chavez
Castro
idi amin

What do they have in common? Before they got into power, they all called for gun control!!! If you don't know history, you're doomed to repeat the mistakes of history. F@ck gun control

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson

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Re: Gun Control: Why do Americans oppose it religiously?

Post by momopi » August 4th, 2016, 3:33 pm

Winston wrote:But Momopi,
You didn't answer my question. What if YOU were a deer grazing peacefully in the forest, and suddenly a bullet hits you and kills you in a very painful manner? Would YOU like that? Yes or not? If no, then why do you think it's right for hunters to do that to deer? I'd like to see you get out of this one and defend the indefensible.

Even if plants have feelings, they do not feel pain as sharply as animals do. Plus, you don't have to eat plants. You can just pluck carrots or corn off the crops without killing the crops. Or pluck apples off of apple trees without killing the tree.
<snip>
So if there are guns in China, then how come you don't hear about gun crimes there or mass shootings? How does China prevent that?
1. A deer is born to its position on the food chain. If you were born a deer, you're food. By hunter's bullet, mountain lion's jaws, or ripped apart alive by pack of wolves, you don't get to have an opinion on being venison.

If you refuse to accept the deer's position in the food chain, you can complain to Mother Nature or the creator (if you believe in one).

2. How do you "pluck" carrots off the crops?

3. Here's one from last month:
http://m.scmp.com/news/china/society/ar ... hern-china
Last edited by momopi on August 4th, 2016, 5:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Gun Control: Why do Americans oppose it religiously?

Post by jamesbond » August 4th, 2016, 5:17 pm

Winston looks pretty comfortable with this gun. :P

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Re: Gun Control: Why do Americans oppose it religiously?

Post by Adama » August 4th, 2016, 5:52 pm

w.p.o. wrote:
Winston wrote:I've been meaning to ask about something for a long time. I don't get the whole Gun Control debate. Why is everyone in the conspiracy movement, alternative media and all right wingers, libertarians and conservatives, against Gun Control so much? What is wrong with it?
The framers (inspired by John Locke) brainstormed like crazy to come up with a document which would set the US far apart from any other country in history (unfortunately the suggestion of term limits were rejected). Being under british rule left a bad taste in everyone's mouth. Under the King's rules, one couldn't express him/herself freely, therefore they came up with the 1st amendment: right to free speech/expression/religion. The 2nd amendment (right to bear arms) was even more important, as it allows oneself to protect him/herself and property. The second amendment is crucial as it prevents a holocaust!! Isreal has definitely learned from history. Take a trip to isreal, and you'll see almost everyone walking the streets with AK-47s wrapped around their shoulders and pistols on their sides. When they say "never again" they mean it. Look at the other countries where it's constitution doesn't include a right to bear arms. They are sitting ducks for either a holocaust or a group of radical islamists wanting to wreck havoc.

Commies/socialists/fascists in american have been trying to repeal the 2nd amendment since the 60s (perhaps before then). As you know totalitarianists are nothing but bullies. Like a bully, they can't fight worth a damn and usually pick fights with weak opponents. They understand an armed society is one not to mess with. No one in their right mind would try to rob a police station or try something in a shooting range. They would rather go after soft targets such as a movie theater or any 'sanctuary' area. The no-gun zones are basically sitting duck zones. The communist agenda in the US since the 60s was to first get rid of guns. That is their biggest hurdle. Without banning guns, their plan to "fundamentally transform america" (as obama once said in his '08 campaign) will never have a chance. Commies are no fan of the US constitution. They hate it and must abolish it by any means necessary. Sharia Law is also incompatible with the US constitution. Therefore, communists and the muslim brotherhood have much in common. Btw, hilary rotten clinton is not only a card carrying communist (confirmed by former coworkers), she is also in bed with the muslim brotherhood! Just another reason to vote for Trump.

BEWARE when you here the phrase "gun control." First of all, when buying a gun, there is ALREADY an extremely thorough background check. This background check can last anywhere from 30 minutes to 48 hours! Keep in mind, you need a license to carry also. With the very detailed background check, why gun control (when they're already is one)? When liberals/progressives (phrases hijacked by commies) refer to gun control, that's code for gun ban!! Remember the commie agenda. France (a socialist country under Hollande) has some of the strictest "gun control" laws in the world. That's why their being attacked day in and day out. Of course the refugee crisis doesn't help it, but at least give the people the ability to protect themselves. But that's like doing something right.

Mao Tsedung
Hitler
Stalin
Pol Pot
Chavez
Castro
idi amin

What do they have in common? Before they got into power, they all called for gun control!!! If you don't know history, you're doomed to repeat the mistakes of history. F@ck gun control

"When governments fear the people, there is liberty. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny." Thomas Jefferson
Free thinking Winston and his mind are blocked because of his underlying communist belief system which he subscribes to. All of this is evident and anyone with eyes can see these things you've written are true. Yet they will make excuses. These fools even know the government is evil in every scenario, but all of a sudden under this one, the gov is the good guy upholding rights and protecting citizenry. That's how these sympathizers think (if they aren't disinfo agents). This also demonstrates the sad nature of humanity.

It's pretty darn obvious. It's like clockwork if you look at history. Even with ALL of those examples (some of which I referred to as well), Winston is still able to completely dismiss the argument. Winston cannot see truth in this matter.
A good man is above pettiness. He is better than that.

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Re: Gun Control: Why do Americans oppose it religiously?

Post by Adama » August 4th, 2016, 6:04 pm

Winston wrote:But Momopi,
You didn't answer my question. What if YOU were a deer grazing peacefully in the forest, and suddenly a bullet hits you and kills you in a very painful manner? Would YOU like that? Yes or not? If no, then why do you think it's right for hunters to do that to deer? I'd like to see you get out of this one and defend the indefensible.

Even if plants have feelings, they do not feel pain as sharply as animals do. Plus, you don't have to eat plants. You can just pluck carrots or corn off the crops without killing the crops. Or pluck apples off of apple trees without killing the tree.

It is said before the fall of man in the garden of eden, that mankind used to derive his sustenance from sunlight alone. In India, some men claim to have been doing that for years or decade, not needing any food.

So if there are guns in China, then how come you don't hear about gun crimes there or mass shootings? How does China prevent that?

Btw Momopi, a lot of the news from western media are lies and exaggerations. You know that right? Western media has been caught lying many times.

They also claim that there is a shortage of women in China, yet in Chinese cities I've been too, I see more women than men. I don't see any shortage of women at all. So how do you explain that?

Btw, there's a thread directed to you about hunting here:
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=31432

No, Winston. God gave man, through Adam, dominion over the animals. Adam even got to name every animal! IIRC, after the flood, we were allowed to eat meat. Animals were meant to be eaten. The Bible has many references to people eating meat.

There is no verse about living off of sunlight. If you believe that people can live for years on sunlight without caloric intake, Winston, then you'll probably believe almost any lie.

I suspect they are lying about population figures too, but there is no way to prove this, except with our own eyes. People say certain populations aren't growing, but where I live, there is a population explosion of this "stagnant" population.
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Re: Gun Control: Why do Americans oppose it religiously?

Post by w.p.o. » August 4th, 2016, 9:49 pm

Gun control (verb); using both hands while discharging your firearm

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Re: Gun Control: Why do Americans oppose it religiously?

Post by w.p.o. » August 4th, 2016, 10:42 pm

Winston wrote:But Momopi,
Plus, you don't have to eat plants. You can just pluck carrots or corn off the crops without killing the crops. Or pluck apples off of apple trees without killing the tree.

It is said before the fall of man in the garden of eden, that mankind used to derive his sustenance from sunlight alone. In India, some men claim to have been doing that for years or decade, not needing any food.

So if there are guns in China, then how come you don't hear about gun crimes there or mass shootings? How does China prevent that?

Btw Momopi, a lot of the news from western media are lies and exaggerations. You know that right? Western media has been caught lying many times.
Remember Mao Tsetung? The worst dictator in human history. Approximately 50 million chinese perished (starvation and/or execution) during his evil reign. Fortunately, he's long gone, but China is still licking their wounds. They have, however, taken a liking to capitalism. Hopefully they will kick communism completely out the door. The Triads are still around though. As long as there is organized crime, there will always be gun crimes. Because of gun control, the law abiding citizens aren't capable of defending themselves from the thugs and criminals who get their guns off the black market. This is always the one backlash that goes with "gun control." Bad guys get guns illegally, good guys lose their lives.

The human body requires micronutrients (vitamnis/minerals) and macronutrients (protein/carbs/fat). Yes we can go days without food, but not years - let alone decades.

Other than vitamin D, the sun provides nothing in respect to nutrients. Unlike plant life, mammals require more than water and sunlight.

Yes the mainstream (lamestream) media does lie. Quite often as a matter of fact. I've read that they have a 6% approval rating!! People with internet access are flocking to the alternative news (drudge report, WND, Breitbart, Newsmax, gateway pundit, savage nation, freedom friday....). Case in point: Abc news has hitlery up 20 points, yet alternative news has Trump up as high as 15 points! The Government media complex is in full affect. Google Lysenkoism. Those who fail to do research are completely clueless of reality. They have no idea how many Bernie supporters HATE hilery. Many say they are leaving the democrat party and vowed to do whatever they can for that witch to lose (I predict a landslide).

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Re: Gun Control: Why do Americans oppose it religiously?

Post by momopi » August 4th, 2016, 11:02 pm

I'm not religious, but if I were citing the Old Testament, Genesis 2:16-17 says "God commanded the man, you may eat from any tree in the garden. But from the tree of knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat".

So I donno what religious doctrine Winston is citing. From Christian creationism perspective God created man to eat, and even told him that he can eat from all the trees in the garden except one.

Genesis 1:29 "Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food."

Genesis 9:3: "Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything."

Even angels eat. In Genesis 19:3, the two angels ate unleavened bread at Lot's house.

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Re: Gun Control: Why do Americans oppose it religiously?

Post by Citizen » August 5th, 2016, 1:20 am

Since you keep using the Old Testament we should point out that the Hebrews were livestock herdsmen. They lived in tents kind of like the Mongolians and Maasai of today. They raised what they ate. They didn't go around hunting. Cain tried growing fruits and veggies and his God didn't like that. I think that Esau guy was a hunter, he was hated by God even more than Cain was. Cain at least retained God's protection.

Later when the Hebrews became the Israelites they were farmers...grain, milk, honey, meat. Again not hunters.

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Re: Gun Control: Why do Americans oppose it religiously?

Post by momopi » August 5th, 2016, 3:26 pm

Citizen wrote:Since you keep using the Old Testament we should point out that the Hebrews were livestock herdsmen. They lived in tents kind of like the Mongolians and Maasai of today. They raised what they ate. They didn't go around hunting. Cain tried growing fruits and veggies and his God didn't like that. I think that Esau guy was a hunter, he was hated by God even more than Cain was. Cain at least retained God's protection.
Later when the Hebrews became the Israelites they were farmers...grain, milk, honey, meat. Again not hunters.
They just liked to eat wild game.


Genesis 25:28
Isaac, who had a taste for wild game, loved Esau, but Rebekah loved Jacob.

Genesis 27:2-3
Isaac said, "I am now an old man and don't know the day of my death.
Now then, get your equipment--your quiver and bow--and go out to the open country to hunt some wild game for me.


Deuteronomy 12:14-15
You may do so only at the place the LORD will choose within one of your tribal territories. There you must offer your burnt offerings and do everything I command you.
"But you may butcher your animals and eat their meat in any town whenever you want. You may freely eat the animals with which the LORD your God blesses you. All of you, whether ceremonially clean or unclean, may eat that meat, just as you now eat gazelle and deer.


Leviticus 17:13-14
"'Any Israelite or any foreigner residing among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with earth,
because the life of every creature is its blood. That is why I have said to the Israelites, "You must not eat the blood of any creature, because the life of every creature is its blood; anyone who eats it must be cut off."


King Solomon also had a taste for wild game
1 Kings 4:22-23
Solomon's daily provisions were thirty cors of the finest flour and sixty cors of meal,
ten head of stall-fed cattle, twenty of pasture-fed cattle and a hundred sheep and goats, as well as deer, gazelles, roebucks and choice fowl.

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Re: Gun Control: Why do Americans oppose it religiously?

Post by Citizen » August 5th, 2016, 10:26 pm

momopi wrote:
They just liked to eat wild game.


Genesis 25:28
Isaac, who had a taste for wild game, loved Esau, but Rebekah loved Jacob.

Genesis 27:2-3
Isaac said, "I am now an old man and don't know the day of my death.
Now then, get your equipment--your quiver and bow--and go out to the open country to hunt some wild game for me.


Deuteronomy 12:14-15
You may do so only at the place the LORD will choose within one of your tribal territories. There you must offer your burnt offerings and do everything I command you.
"But you may butcher your animals and eat their meat in any town whenever you want. You may freely eat the animals with which the LORD your God blesses you. All of you, whether ceremonially clean or unclean, may eat that meat, just as you now eat gazelle and deer.


Leviticus 17:13-14
"'Any Israelite or any foreigner residing among you who hunts any animal or bird that may be eaten must drain out the blood and cover it with earth,
because the life of every creature is its blood. That is why I have said to the Israelites, "You must not eat the blood of any creature, because the life of every creature is its blood; anyone who eats it must be cut off."


King Solomon also had a taste for wild game
1 Kings 4:22-23
Solomon's daily provisions were thirty cors of the finest flour and sixty cors of meal,
ten head of stall-fed cattle, twenty of pasture-fed cattle and a hundred sheep and goats, as well as deer, gazelles, roebucks and choice fowl.
Touche! :)

NKJV is a bit different.

Genesis 27:3 ...go out to the field... not open country
Deuteronomy 12:15 ...within all your gates... not tribal territory
1 Kings 4:23 ...fattened fowl... not choice fowl

You are correct they were indeed hunting although by the NKJV it seems restricted.
Doesn't, go out to the field and within your gates refer to killing a wild animal that is on your land thus eating your crops? Why was the fowl fattened? You fatten cattle and hogs by feeding them grain. I think that while on his land the animal became his property so it could be killed. Perhaps Esau was wandering far and wide shooting animals of the forest that thus did not belong to him?
To me the bible is saying that for free farmers/people animals on their land are theirs (who feeds them?). Many kings and modern States have decided to "own" all the wildlife whether it was/is on a person's land consuming what he created or not. Serfs and slaves who are beholden to higher powers have to accept that. Free people don't because they created and thus actually own something.

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Re: Gun Control: Why do Americans oppose it religiously?

Post by momopi » August 6th, 2016, 12:31 pm

Citizen wrote: You are correct they were indeed hunting although by the NKJV it seems restricted.
Doesn't, go out to the field and within your gates refer to killing a wild animal that is on your land thus eating your crops? Why was the fowl fattened? You fatten cattle and hogs by feeding them grain. I think that while on his land the animal became his property so it could be killed. Perhaps Esau was wandering far and wide shooting animals of the forest that thus did not belong to him?
To me the bible is saying that for free farmers/people animals on their land are theirs (who feeds them?). Many kings and modern States have decided to "own" all the wildlife whether it was/is on a person's land consuming what he created or not. Serfs and slaves who are beholden to higher powers have to accept that. Free people don't because they created and thus actually own something.
I'm fairly certain they were not restricted to only eat animals, fish, and birds caught on the farm (Deuteronomy 14). Deer, gazelle, roe deer, wild goat, ibex, antelope, and mountain sheep are obviously wild game.

For deer hunting, land owners plant food plot (kill plot) with clover, turnip, brassica, etc. to attract deer to their property. Hunting leases are sold to limited number of hunters per season for few thousand dollars. The hunter might sit in tree stand or deer blind and wait for deer to come.

Image

For example, Tejon ranch charge $4,000 to hunt on their property per season ( http://hunt.tejonranch.com/memberships/ ) or $1,200 per hunt ( http://hunt.tejonranch.com/guided-pig-hunts/ ).

If you cannot afford your own land, hunting leases or fee per hunt, then you hunt on public land with much lower chance of success. Or, beg and plead with private landowners for permission to hunt on their property. Either way, you have to pay a fee to land owner and/or state DFG for hunting license and tags.
Last edited by momopi on August 6th, 2016, 8:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Gun Control: Why do Americans oppose it religiously?

Post by Citizen » August 6th, 2016, 3:44 pm

momopi wrote:
Citizen wrote: You are correct they were indeed hunting although by the NKJV it seems restricted.
Doesn't, go out to the field and within your gates refer to killing a wild animal that is on your land thus eating your crops? Why was the fowl fattened? You fatten cattle and hogs by feeding them grain. I think that while on his land the animal became his property so it could be killed. Perhaps Esau was wandering far and wide shooting animals of the forest that thus did not belong to him?
To me the bible is saying that for free farmers/people animals on their land are theirs (who feeds them?). Many kings and modern States have decided to "own" all the wildlife whether it was/is on a person's land consuming what he created or not. Serfs and slaves who are beholden to higher powers have to accept that. Free people don't because they created and thus actually own something.
I'm fairly certain they were not restricted to only eat animals, fish, and birds caught on the farm (Deuteronomy 14). Deer, gazelle, roe deer, wild goat, ibex, antelope, and mountain sheep are obviously wild game.

For deer hunting, land owners plant food plot (kill plot) with clover, turnip, brassica, etc. to attract deer to their property. Hunting leases are sold to limited number of hunters per season for few thousand dollars. The hunter sits in tree stand or deer blind and wait for deer to come.

Image

For example, Tejon ranch charge $4,000 to hunt on their property per season ( http://hunt.tejonranch.com/memberships/ ) or $1,200 per hunt ( http://hunt.tejonranch.com/guided-pig-hunts/ ).

If you cannot afford your own land, hunting leases or fee per hunt, then you hunt on public land with much lower chance of success. Or, beg and plead with private landowners for permission to hunt on their property. Either way, you have to pay a fee to land owner and/or state DFG for hunting license and tags.
Thanks Momopi. Very interesting.

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Re: Gun Control: Why do Americans oppose it religiously?

Post by Taco » September 8th, 2016, 7:10 am

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Re: Gun Control: Why do Americans oppose it religiously?

Post by Winston » January 7th, 2018, 10:03 pm

Some anti gun control memes.

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These are funny too.

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