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Is Capitalism the problem?

Discuss issues related to government, politics, and law.

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Moretorque
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Re: Is Capitalism the problem?

Post by Moretorque » July 16th, 2018, 2:40 pm

Aron I agree with you but the main point I am trying to make is we have all been duped seriously, the British Empire plays such a vast role in all we know from birth. Look at the language we speak just for starters, look at the color of the American or alot of other countries flags. When you stand back and look at it all from afar you realize all roads go back to that area of the world as far as the modern world we live in.

They have tried to cover their tracks and have done a good job of rewriting history but with the net the true word is getting out fast, also a good place to start on this is the 1688 revolution where they merged the British and Dutch navy and established the bank of England in the early 1690's. Yes the glorious revolution took place with world domination in the mind of certain groups who did it.......

Also capitalism and it's meaning in English go back to where ? the construct of private ownership being bad for the masses was created by them because they want it all and rent it all back to us and they want you to believe this is the way it has to be because profit and private property are bad when that is all they really care about so they can take the entire world over mostly with an accounting gimmick. They really are playing us to believe anything we are told while they do the opposite for themselves

You see Tesla and Royal Rife were not in it for the money and neither was Stan Myers who paid with his dear life unfortunately and you will find most of your true genius's did what they did for something other than monetary gain.

This construct created has done a masterful job of the dupe on most of humanity.

We live in a world of finite abundance and we really are on the losing curve here as of late, what we are talking about does not really matter when nature was not respected no matter what system and we have ecologically triggered our own demise......

The ruling elite know this and feel they are the ones capable to manage all through their houses but I just look at the waste war and corruption that we are currently engulfed in under the world monopoly they have built and realize with an educated populace and a correctly functioning government with an honest medium of exchange with transparent rulers we may have been able to avoid what is coming full steam ahead and it has arrived. :shock:

Thanks.......
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jamesbond
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Re: Is Capitalism the problem?

Post by jamesbond » July 20th, 2018, 3:13 am

What we have in the United States now is crony capitalism and cut throat capitalism. We don't have the normal capitalism that existed in the 1950's and 1960's.

Now, we have companies doing everything they can to make a profit, even if it means hiring illegal aliens. Also, companies will lay off thousands of workers and at the same time give their CEO a bonus check for millions of dollars.

Companies the United States don't value their employees anymore like they did in the 50's and 60's. Crony capitalism and cut throat capitalism is what we have today in America.
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Re: Is Capitalism the problem?

Post by Aron » July 20th, 2018, 6:07 am

@Moretorque

Well although I still don't agree that a gold standard or anything like that gets around the same flaws with capitalism i mentioned earlier it seems like you basically agree that capitalism as it works right now is ruining things and the alternative people would be told is Communism where they just have all their belongings directly seized rather than just rented away. As for the whole issue of the ecosystem, I agree, capitalism is f***ing it up quite bad right now, although it is obvious that more specifically this is the ruling establishment operating within capitalism that is doing the main damage. Time-lapses of the arctic ice sheets and so on are very convincing proof of how dangerous things have gotten with the climate. I will make sure to get around to watching that documentary on Big Oil you mentioned.

Either way, most people are pretty disenfranchised to do anything about the system and its operators, I guess there are always the off the grid prepper types trying to be sustainable but that is not a systemic solution, if shit really hits the fan those kinds of individual solutions aren't going to be good enough. Essentially the problem is that the military industrial complex war machine interconnected with the government has run out of control destroying country after country in the world as they are then rebuilt by multinational corporations for profit and subjected to debts from a central bank, etc. And it isn't really going to stop on its own without some precise and thorough done systemic changes to society. You can't do that by just making your house self sufficient or growing your own food or anything like that. Now is there the technology to shift over to a renewable steady state civilization, i think there very much is, but the current system of things is incompatible with this shift no matter how necessary it is, things might start to change if things very rapidly f**k up with the economy but i don't see many other ways anything will change on the large scale that gets the war machine of the US to actually stop destroying everything and increasing the risk of nuclear armageddon more and more. Much worse of course if the elite use the system's inevitable failure to instead set up a more totalitarian regime.

Another thing that is a very big problem, is the nuclear plants. If the power grid goes down for whatever reason, eventually the nuclear plants will go critical without water to keep them cool. And if the trucks with water do not get there for whatever reason it essentially means if the power grid of the USA fails for a long period of time the country and also the planet could go into nuclear winter destroying all life.

@jamesbond
jamesbond wrote:
July 20th, 2018, 3:13 am
What we have in the United States now is crony capitalism and cut throat capitalism. We don't have the normal capitalism that existed in the 1950's and 1960's.

Now, we have companies doing everything they can to make a profit, even if it means hiring illegal aliens. Also, companies will lay off thousands of workers and at the same time give their CEO a bonus check for millions of dollars.

Companies the United States don't value their employees anymore like they did in the 50's and 60's. Crony capitalism and cut throat capitalism is what we have today in America.
The thing is that this capitalism is the standard outcome. Crony capitalism is encouraged by the structure of capitalism, the goal is profit and undercutting others, seizing control of politicians, you name it, all fits the profit motive. Now I will clarify that although this is systemically encouraged many people will choose not to do majorly corrupt things anyways as it seems wrong innately to them. This does not change though that the biggest winners in capitalism will be the most ruthless corporations since the profit motive encourages this and not any form of good will.

Now it may be that certain scams as Moretorque mentioned might not have came into place if not for very malevolent people like with those controlling the federal reserve. But the end result is that this assistance of employees and benevolence you wish for is not valued financially and is not profitable for companies. It's only profitable to the extent that it is necessary to keep skilled and necessary employees. There is a conflict of interest between the possible good will of the employer to keep income flowing for his employees and their families, and what is cheap financially. So it's not a huge surprise why illegal immigrants as cheaper labor sometimes replace others. It fits the profit motive.

Socialism often gets a bad reputation but it's based on cooperation and good will in theory rather than competition and it is overall more effective at social good. However socialism as we see in the nordic countries is ultimately just a patch to capitalism and doesn't fix its root issues even if it does accomplish many good things in society as we see with their far better prison systems, health care systems, and education systems. The reason it's just a patch is that capitalism still as a system must constantly pump out a stream of low quality goods for people to buy and also maintain a steady stream of jobs whether they are meaningful or not to maintain employment so there are consumers with money to buy the goods. If it weren't for capitalism's influence there would be a lot less bullshit jobs wasting a lot less people's time and freeing them up to do other things. The problem is that the system demands constant work for income to survive. Meanwhile due to Communism in the past people have a notion in their heads that guaranteed income must mean a totalitarian dictatorship, as the communists enforced many times in history. This is not actually the case but has become a mass cultural perception unfortunately. The more major problem is that the momentum of the system is entirely against meeting human needs unconditionally and efficiently and removing as much unnecessary work as possible. And an attempt to turn to a more open source and semi anarchistic society that attempts to meet everyone's needs would likely be co-opted by the elite who would instead try to set up a totalitarian regime in the event of capitalism's collapse. Either way though you should be able to see that 'crony capitalism' is not the problem, capitalism is, crony capitalism is just a logical outgrowth of capitalism.

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Re: Is Capitalism the problem?

Post by Moretorque » July 20th, 2018, 12:14 pm

I never felt a gold standard was an answer at all, the lights have been on for over 20 years with the net going. I AM ATTEMPTING TO TRY AND PIECE THE REAL HISTORY TOGETHER of the world the best I can so I can understand it and try and navigate it the best to my ability with the choices I make.

A group of capitalist who own their stuff " because they pay no taxes " on anything have enacted a plot to inherit the earth and it is under the guise of communism socialism democracy capitalism or whatever flavor of the month they want to call the current system in most parts attempting to subdue the world in their favor.

They figured out by controlling the purchasing tickets of the world economy and not being audited " held accountable by the people " they could rule the world.

Socialism has a bad rap because it's a lie, it was invented by the ruling elite to dupe and coral plain and simple. You let us monopolize and control all with our counterfeiting operation and we will dispense it out evenly amongst you the herd but us party members " socialist clown government " will skim most all the excesses of the fruits of your labor into our own pocket and do nothing but manage you as a # on a spread sheet and then lie about it all when it becomes obvious we are a different class than you and we will have our goon's ready to go and put the boot stomp on you if you ? us and how we loot you..

It's just another name for a dictatorship dressed up like a fancy pig with lip stick for the people, they have to destroy America and rewrite all history about it on purpose so you will not understand it correctly.

Please get your real history while you still can.

Read The Declaration of Independence and read the first 12 amendments to the US constitution, all the other amendments were added after the country was seriously breached following the civil war which is just another lie.... The whole thing operates on daa stupidity of daa herd and that is why they invented socialism to put the cattle in it's place where it belongs permanently.......

You need to understand the current system was completely set up by the elites, the nuclear power is as it is so they could make plutonium for thousands of A bombs. We could of had thorium reactors going but an ape is an ape is an ape and the ape grafted with technology decided it like bombs better than just about anything.
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Re: Is Capitalism the problem?

Post by Aron » July 20th, 2018, 10:07 pm

@Moretorque
Moretorque wrote:
July 20th, 2018, 12:14 pm

Socialism has a bad rap because it is a lie, it was invented by the ruling elite to dupe and coral. You let us monopolize and control all with our counterfeiting operation and we will dispense it out evenly amongst you the herd but us party members " socialist clown government " will skim the excesses of the fruits of your labor into our own pocket and do nothing but manage you as a # on a spread sheet and then lie about it all when it becomes obvious we are a different class than you and we will have the our goon's ready to put the boot stomp on you if you ? us and how we loot you..

It's just another name for a dictatorship dressed up like a fancy pig with lip stick for the people, they have to destroy America and rewrite all history about it on purpose so you will not understand it correctly.
First of all you need to distinguish between what you think is a ruling elite controlled socialist government vs the idea of socialism. They're not the same thing. I showed you evidence earlier that socialism like with the prison systems of the nordic countries like Sweden Norway etc has produced beneficial and well proven health effects. Now maybe you believe that the ruling elite can use socialism to their own ends but that doesn't change my point that socialism has been shown capable of good things. Not all things called socialism are the same some may be bad instead as can often be the case with income tax and many other things. But that doesn't change that many socialist ideas are quite beneficial. Universal healthcare isn't a bad concept at all, while a lot of the time capitalist healthcare will just mean inefficient competing companies offering healthcare with a big pricetag that is often extremely overpriced and badly done. This is also not mentioning the moral argument for universal healthcare as a need rather than a want.
Please get your real history while you still can.

Read The declaration of Independence and read the first 12 amendments to the US constitution, all the other amendments were added after the country was seriously breached following the civil war which is just another lie.... The whole thing operates on daa stupidity of daa herd and that is why they invented socialism to put the cattle in it's place where it belongs permanently.......

You need to understand the current system was completely set up by the elites, the nuclear power is as it is so they could make plutonium for thousands of A bombs. We could of had thorium reactors going but an ape is an ape is an ape and the ape grafted with technology decided it like bombs better than just about anything.
Yeah the state of things with nuclear mass armament everywhere is getting pretty ridiculous. I realize that the government as it works now is subverting individual freedoms very much and basically just works hand and hand with the corporations that fund it to be very tyrannical and anti liberty unlike what much of the constitution was supposed to protect. But this doesn't change what I mean when i say certain 'socialist' ideas can be good for the public it just depends on who controls the execution of these ideas and who is controlling the government and if controlling factors over the government like the federal reserve can be removed again.

Moretorque
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Re: Is Capitalism the problem?

Post by Moretorque » July 21st, 2018, 12:16 am

Look we will start fresh here, sure I will debate weather centralized state control is better at running societies with guidance from it's citizenry or is very limited government better with a larger open market economy with many factions competing against each other.. FORGET ABOUT SOCIALISM COMMUNISM, marching toward that dictatorship is a conspiracy by the elite for total world domination.

Communism Socialisms end goals are not what you think, go look up the pre Socialist Russian flag and also the pre German non Socialist flag. Now look at the Russian socialist and the German NAZI socialist flag. What color are both flags post revolution ? Who's house is that ? go look at or read Red Symphony reviews to get an idea about what this dictatorships end goals are. Also you will find the same thing with the Chinese flag, interestingly enough the commies screwed Russia up so bad they had to ditch the cycle red flag and now promote their flag in the colors of old glory red white and blue to try and keep the dupe going, we are nice now.......... no really :D :lol:

Yaa I can agree the socialist can run a good prison system because that's the end goal for the entire planet......
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Re: Is Capitalism the problem?

Post by Aron » July 21st, 2018, 1:15 am

@Moretorque

Moretorque wrote:
July 21st, 2018, 12:16 am

Yaa I can agree the socialist can run a good prison system because that's the end goal for the entire planet......
You're over-reacting. The details of why their prison system worked better is that it's focused on improving mental health and not punishing without cause. The underlying point I'm making by linking something about their prison system is about the broader societal focus in these more 'socialist' countries, which is more focused on social health than profit. It's the same thing with their system of free education and healthcare. If i'd mentioned those i'm sure you would not have gotten upset in the same way. What do you think about free education and healthcare? They seem like good ideas to me. Although I personally disagree strongly with much of the current mechanics of schooling which tend to treat students in a behaviorist way seeing them as essentially pawns to be manipulated with punishments and rewards into becoming obedient workers. If you want to know more of what i think about education here's a link to an article called "The Case Against Grades" by education researcher Alfie Kohn who has written many articles disproving some of the modern education system.
https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/case-grades/

The example you mentioned of the Nazis and the Communists having red in their flags is only partly true. It's not like they had entirely the same color scheme. The communists used red and yellow not red white and black. The Nazis may have called themselves socialists to get votes but that doesn't mean socialism=dictatorship.

Moretorque
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Re: Is Capitalism the problem?

Post by Moretorque » July 21st, 2018, 11:15 am

You don't understand, you are very typical of somebody who has never been in business for themselves. NOTHING IS FREEEEEEEE.

Look at it like this, the economy and the eco you live in is a pie. Should we have a large centralized government to divie it up amongst the society " themselves only " or should we have individuals focused more on their local environments with individual inputs of their labor and their ideas for where pieces of the pie should go by what the local markets want.

In order to make this work on a large scale we will need a medium of exchange, Ok I have an idea I will control the entire medium of exchange everywhere ' NO COMPETITION " by loaning a supply of #'s out and charge interest for my service but will not put the compound interest back into the system so the end result is complete debt saturation to where the whole entire system collapses and we will blame free and open markets with private property so we can have our world centralized dictatorship....... " British Empire " and of course we will have all the guns to stay in power and you can't have any...DISARM the AMERICAN people.

Go look at who did this world wide, it was not free and open markets with private property it was the dictatorship operating under the guise of capitalism using the 5th plank of the communist manifesto to achieve this goal.

The whole entire society is then routed through their pocket with an accounting gimmick and all markets are captured and then we blame private property and individual local markets " competition ".

Go look at the war waste corruption death and the wealth gap created by centralized power of big government over just the last 100 years only, also Americans were the best educated people in the world before the central government " CREDIT MONOPOLY " started taking the system completely over.

They claim the school system is free, look at the waste in the US school system alone and the results for what resources are put into it, the local economies did a much much better job of educating the youth... competition! Medical as well as all other markets are the same and by the way what is going on on the college level is all being caused by the federal reserves policies.

I was not upset, just stating the obvious for people who can think for themselves which is being outlawed at the moment by the creditor class " No FREE SPEECH ", we can't have the sheep waking up and figuring this con out..

Look it is real simple, can people reason for themselves or must they be treated like cattle by the state. I think the statist figured this out long ago.

I am done with this because your points are nothing but CRAP and have no real content behind them which is very typical of people who are brainwashed and believe in more statist power for themselves without offering anything of real value for civilization in return.....

By the way I answered your points way better than you answered mine and you are the one who truly sidestepped the issues with simpleton rubbish.

" It All Starts With Honest Money "
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Re: Is Capitalism the problem?

Post by Aron » July 22nd, 2018, 12:07 am

@Moretorque
Moretorque wrote:
July 21st, 2018, 11:15 am
You don't understand, you are very typical of somebody who has never been in business for themselves. NOTHING IS FREEEEEEEE.

Look at it like this, the economy and the eco you live in is a pie. Should we have a large centralized government to divie it up amongst the society " themselves only " or should we have individuals focused more on their local environments with individual inputs of their labor and their ideas for where pieces of the pie should go by what the local markets want.
I'm not arguing for a large centralized government. You already watched the documentary I linked earlier so you would know from that that i'm talking about an open source society intended to be bottom-up and essentially 'anarchist' in a lot of ways. Much similar to your desire for low amounts of government. Very much the opposite of a state. I understand that the common conception of socialism is state control and that yes as you have said this can be corrupted.

As for if things can be free. Everything takes resources to create, so technically you are right that nothing is free but only in a technical sense. Just because the services provided with healthcare take some amount of resources to ensure doesn't mean they can't be made abundantly available for everyone. As technology gets more efficient it costs less resources to actually deliver these services to people, for example if that RIFE machine you mentioned works as you said it would make it very easy to cure cancer for the public for free without actually expending much resource cost. Yes I realize that in a corrupt government any socialist healthcare or education could actually be worse because a government would use it for greater control and just use the free healthcare as an excuse to tax the people far more. That's why what i've been advocating is an 'open source' society where the goal is for every area to be as independent as possible reducing the possibility of tyranny to mostly nothing.

"or should we have individuals focused more on their local environments with individual inputs of their labor and their ideas for where pieces of the pie should go by what the local markets want."
The first part isn't a bad idea but something that is a problem here is the inherent self interest of the market, you're economically encouraged to do what will benefit you not someone else. Now this is better anyways compared to some top down big government controlled state where nobody has any freedom but that's not what i'm advocating although I suppose i must have not been clear enough in saying i was against this. Just because I mentioned some things in 'socialist' countries that work doesn't mean those countries have a perfect model or that it's better than a more bottom-up grassroots type of civilization as i am advocating.

In order to make this work on a large scale we will need a medium of exchange, Ok I have an idea I will control the entire medium of exchange everywhere ' NO COMPETITION " by loaning a supply of #'s out and charge interest for my service but will not put the compound interest back into the system so the end result is complete debt saturation to where the whole entire system collapses and we will blame free and open markets with private property so we can have our world centralized dictatorship....... " British Empire " and of course we will have all the guns to stay in power and you can't have any...DISARM the AMERICAN people.
I guess I might have given out some false impressions by saying some things in socialist countries work. Yes the specific things i mentioned do seem to work, but you probably got the impression that I must support some specific other things the socialist EU countries do like disarmament of the populace which i agree with you to be a bad idea that is just oppressing the people. I also agree that interest is a scam but think about it this way. As corrupt and malevolent as they are the government is just the winning group among the competition, funded by big oil and other big industries, their scams are made possible by the system in the first place and are also what perpetuates the system as it is.


Go look at who did this world wide, it was not free and open markets with private property it was the dictatorship operating under the guise of capitalism using the 5th plank of the communist manifesto to achieve this goal.
How exactly is using a scam to take over the money system and make yourself automatically win no matter what, not capitalist? It is very corrupt and obviously wrong to most people, but if the goal is to compete and achieve profit, then using underhanded tricks is encouraged by this competitive motive of differential advantage and profit. If you have no morals at least which the ruling elite do not have.
The whole entire society is then routed through their pocket with an accounting gimmick and all markets are captured and then we blame private property and individual local markets " competition ".

Go look at the war waste corruption death and the wealth gap created by centralized power of big government over just the last 100 years only, also Americans were the best educated people in the world before the central government " CREDIT MONOPOLY " started taking the system completely over.

They claim the school system is free, look at the waste in the US school system alone and the results for what resources are put into it, the local economies did a much much better job of educating the youth... competition! Medical as well as all other markets are the same and by the way what is going on on the college level is all being caused by the federal reserves policies.

I agree with you that the 'free' school system is very ineffective and is really just lowering the intelligence of the population compared to what they would learn if they homeschooled. The idea of free education being good doesn't mean that education as is is being done well. That's why i prefaced that comment by saying there's a lot of problems with modern education and giving you a link about that.


I was not upset, just stating the obvious for people who can think for themselves which is being outlawed at the moment by the creditor class " No FREE SPEECH ", we can't have the sheep waking up and figuring this con out..
'
Look it is real simple, can people reason for themselves or must they be treated like cattle by the state. I think the statist figured this out long ago.
Again i am not a statist. If anything i think even compulsory schooling is questionable. The way the state uses it now is often to indoctrinate people into the desired social beliefs and dumb the people down anyways.
I am done with this because your points are nothing but CRAP and have no real content behind them which is very typical of people who are brainwashed and believe in more statist power for themselves without offering anything of real value for civilization in return.....

By the way I answered your points way better than you answered mine and you are the one who truly sidestepped the issues with simpleton rubbish.

" It All Starts With Honest Money "
Well it is really too bad if you do not want to talk anymore since it seemed like you were more interested earlier on about 3 posts ago. And it seems like we agree on a lot of the main points anyways. No I am not a statist...The documentary i cited is basically anarchist in its goals and most of the ideological arguments i made are not that statism is good but that an open source society is good which in some ways seems similar to your ideals of a low government society.

You agreed that people who make great inventions to try to make society better aren't selfish and are trying to improve the world not just keep all profit for themselves so your best examples of good people in the world aren't doing it because of capitalism they're doing it because of their own benevolence and goodwill.

I think we both agree that a money supply that is all created out of debt and loaned out with interest while more is created through fractional reserve banking, is an automatic scam doomed to fail. A new money system not built out of debt and not required to be paid back with interest would obviously be much better. The reason I said you seemed to be arguing for the Gold Standard is because you cited Ron Paul who believes this and i believe you said Lincoln by having an unbacked money supply was able to be more tyrannical. Since you said more recently you aren't arguing for the gold standard i'll go with assuming you don't want it but still want to get rid of interest and fractional reserve banking.

I am not saying that there is something wrong with removing these things, and in the past there may not have been many other options, but with more technological advances like the internet and mass communications as i said 3 posts ago or so, it should be easier to obsolete this system and do this in a more open source way not dependent on price tags. Would your idea be better than what we have now, yes, I agree, but I think an open source society where resource needs are met unconditionally is overall a lot better as an ideal goal. The goal is to minimize government into non-existence essentially by reducing the dependence of individual regions on other areas as much as possible. Right now products get transported a ridiculous distance due to globalization even though this consumes huge amounts of energy and is wasteful of resources. 1500 miles for the average piece of food before it reaches someone's household.
https://cuesa.org/learn/how-far-does-yo ... your-plate

If what you believe about Tesla is true then there would be free energy which would just destroy the oil industry and the energy industry overall, nothing to sell if you have an energy abundance. Although that doesn't need to be true for oil to become obsolete, alternative energy sources like geothermal and others could be replacing the coal factories and oil wells right now it's just not done for the profit of the oil industry, there are the resources for us to have a renewable energy grid. What i am getting at here is that with technological process more things become abundant and capitalism becomes more obsolete. Now this is not statism but simply an open source society. Money would not be banned it would just reach a point where nobody would use it because they would already be self sufficient enough to not need it anymore. Hopefully what i have said here clarifies that i am not a statist as you might have imagined based on how socialists are normally statists.

Aron
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Re: Is Capitalism the problem?

Post by Aron » August 8th, 2018, 3:30 am

@Moretorque
Posting a response here to Moretorque's post in the "The Problems with Atheists and Atheism" thread.




[/quote]Aron you still are missing what I was telling you, free and open markets have made oil obsolete for the most part but the people who created socialism ( which is just another name for a dictatorship ) are keeping the technologies under wraps that have been invented to replace it. THEY CONTROL US BY KEEPING US ON OIL!!!!!![/quote]
It's not markets specifically that have made oil obsolete but technological ingenuity of certain inventors. Which oddly enough was defeated by capitalism as their inventions got bought, patented, and forgotten about on purpose. Your personal version of socialism is a product of capitalist trying to win the game of capitalism by rigging it so they are guaranteed to win with the banks and etc.

Yes, I agree that the elite control us by keeping us on oil. But what you do not seem to be understanding yet is that really-existing capitalism is perpetuating this, if we got off oil and got everyone their own energy sources that got them to be self sufficient and efficient, like good solar or whatever other method, that'd destroy the energy market and the overall capitalist economy as well, due to people not continuously buying new gas or fossil fuel based electricity to maintain corporate profits.

For the Socialism topic, you've got to understand that the standard socialist model is not what i'm advocating, no i am not against individual property rights. Basically i'm just advocating what i think is the logical extension of Open Source principles, founding society on bottom up grassroots cooperation. Capitalism as a system is based on competition and Socialists at least recognize the importance of Cooperation but instead initiate a competition where the state takes over and rules the public rather than sticking with open source principles. This is something Socialists get majorly wrong with their version of free healthcare/free education. I don't think that Capitalism is always bad no matter what as in cases society can proceed without a disaster under it, Henry Ford's goal was to get everyone in America their own transportation and regardless of the system he worked under he managed to accomplish his generally benevolent goal through his corporation. There are other cases where people will get things done inside of the market system but that doesn't mean it's the best way to go about things just because it worked from time to time. It is too easy for pretty malevolent people to take over in capitalism and make everyone dependent on buying their products, even if other Capitalists might have not intended to do anything bad with their inventions and corporations. Compared to an open-source society where people are as self sufficient as possible it seems more vulnerable to sabotage and infiltration.

The Bernie types that support socialism have a very different idea of what it means than what the elite in control are actually doing with it and intend to pull off with it. The state when it does free education uses this as a way to indoctrinate the public into stupidity and obedience, the same issue with free healthcare where it uses this as excuse to tax the shit out of the people as if a public of debt-slaves is necessary to actually pull off free education and health care. Then these socialist countries like Sweden or Norway take the tax money they got out of the public and send it to the 10s of millions of migrants they brought in who are supposed to replace the native population with a different race and in many cases Muslim beliefs which are a giant IQ nerf to the populace regardless of race since you have to be stupid to continue believing in Islam. All under the idea of benevolence and kindness or whatever when what this is going to do is make the country non functional due to lack of skilled people, leading to the collapse of the poorly planned 'benevolence' that doesn't accomplish its goal well at all.

Just as really-existing Capitalism locks away so much important information under copyright and patent law, really-existing socialism not only removes access to important educational knowledge but basically destroys it altogether by dumbing down even the higher education systems which are supposed to get the public to have the necessary scientific knowledge to maintain the civilization. Which is then reinforced by the migrant quotas in universities and the necessity of dumbing it down for them so they can pass the classes. Adjusting the education system so it's oriented on actual confirmed technical understanding of the subjects in detail rather than being grade and test based would not only improve education at making people smarter to maintain the civilization, it'd also make it very noticable when the immigrants just do not understand a topic at all. Grades and tests can be bypassed by cheating, grade inflation, or teachers just not actually teaching the whole subject properly making the grade not so meaningful.
The ECO will recover once the technological ape has gone extinct and the brake is released that the ape has engaged so the planet can lick it wounds and clean the mess up man ( APE ) has made. There have been 5 mass extinctions in the past and the recovery takes millions of years on average when we lose 70% or more species but it does come back better than ever in the past anyhow.
The last 5 times didn't have humanity involved in the whole debacle and it didn't have a few hundred nuclear reactors waiting to blow up and irradiate the planet for thousands of years. Life can be awfully resilient but i'm not really sure if it will survive this time around. Maybe it'll survive in the oceans? Some remaining bacteria deep down in the ocean? Idk. With no humans left there is nobody around to stop ice caps from melting or whatever other disaster from occuring. If all the ice melts and all the methane gets released into the atmosphere that's going to be a big temperature increase for the planet. I know James Corbett doesn't believe in Global Warming, as he talks about in "Why Big Oil Took Over The World", but there are many convincing timelapses of ice sheets that seem to very readily show it to be true as far as i can tell. Or at least some other phenomenon causing these melts. Temperature increases are undeniably happening in a lot of places in the world for one reason or another.

It seems like i've rambled on a bit too, here, but anyway, I agree generally with a lot of your points, you haven't changed my mind that there are systemic issues with capitalism, but it is true to point out that specific malevolent groups like the Rothschilds and Rockefellers who took advantage of the issues in the system to dominate the world as much as they could are really the main problem and the ones that are perpetuating all of the issues in the system as well and making them far worse. Normal people generally don't have this desire for world domination and if they suddenly found themselves in a position of any similar degree of power, like the Rockefeller who got lucky with finding a lot of oil and started his whole dynasty, they would come to the realization that they could fix a lot of things, this is what Ford did with the automobile and making everyone have their own car. If capitalism were to run its normal course, big inventors like Ford,Tesla and others probably would have rendered it obsolete with their inventions in a rather peaceful and orderly manner that didn't cause much harm, and created what would be effectively global energy and resource abundance for everyone. I still think it's possible for that to happen but in a lot of ways we're in a much worse situation now then society was in earlier in time even with resources like the Internet being around where anyone can communicate at lightspeed with many other people all over the planet.

Open source solutions are probably the way out of this but people can't just be sitting on their ass, smoking weed, drinking booze, watching dumbing-down TV, going to church like a good Sheep every sunday to have their brains washed, and the rest of the time continuing in their likely meaningless job as they desperately live paycheck to paycheck all because of the wage slavery system the big bankers created for everyone. Even the word Job is just borrowed thinking from the old testament that's enslaving many American's minds, where some guy named Job puts up with infinite levels of bullshit because God said so so he has to be a dumb sheep and not question it ever for his whole life.

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Re: Is Capitalism the problem?

Post by Moretorque » August 9th, 2018, 9:33 pm

The planet won't blink an eye and will come back with no problem as it has in the past.

You are still missing the point to a degree, the money changers have destroyed all the economies in the past with the usury based system for the last at least who knows how long but going back several 100 or at least a thousand years or more according to the bible .

Marx defined capitalism by private property and the usury system the elite use will shift all property to them over time. Marx worked for the money changers and was used to write his work along with Engles to dupe the masses into believing private property is at the root of all our problems to make us all believe we have to be renter serfs forever because private property which is capitalism's major cornerstone is creating all the ills.

The monetary tax system as they have arranged it is what is creating most of the problems with all the instability and corporate theft and they are telling you this is capitalism when in reality you are looking at the socialist con headed toward their communist utopia of forever top down serfdom where they control everything.

There is nothing wrong with competition, why do you think our rulers are working on getting rid of it by stealing everything so nobody else has any capital to compete ?

You have been hoodwinked good, they succeeded in duping the mass collective well and thats the whole idea. You have never seen capitalism or an honest money system so your points are irrelevant. Did you know there was practically no inflation in this country when the monetary system had stability ?

You should watch the documentary The Money Masters, you really are lacking some information that is crucial.

If you believe in private property and property rights you believe in capitalism, if you have no property rights YOU HAVE NO RIGHTS PERIOD!!!!! They did not take the planet over with capitalism, they stole it with the 5th plank of the communist manifesto which is an accounting gimmick the cornerstone of socialism.....

People don't educate themselves and our rulers just do the old dupe and herd and they gonna lock us all in a pen but more than likely mother nature is going to have the last word shortly...
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Re: Is Capitalism the problem?

Post by Ghost » August 10th, 2018, 4:18 am

George Orwell called it. All these different systems are the same but with different faces. Annihilation of the self, serfdom, death worship, whatever you prefer to call it.

All economic systems are pyramids. In every system you end up with an elite on top, and peons of varying levels filling up the rest of the pyramid.
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Re: Is Capitalism the problem?

Post by Moretorque » August 11th, 2018, 9:21 pm

Ghost wrote:
August 10th, 2018, 4:18 am
George Orwell called it. All these different systems are the same but with different faces. Annihilation of the self, serfdom, death worship, whatever you prefer to call it.

All economic systems are pyramids. In every system you end up with an elite on top, and peons of varying levels filling up the rest of the pyramid.
America did not have to be the way it is, there is nothing in the founding documents about capitalism and this is what Aron has a hard time seeing. He has not studied this enough and is relying on the spoon fed propaganda he has been indoctrinated with his whole life too try and form what he thinks is a knowledgeable opinion.

They came in , set the Kings bank up, took over the legal system and built standing armies too project the power the money and court control gave them.

The problem is people do not educate themselves such as Aron and are easily duped by the state......
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Re: Is Capitalism the problem?

Post by Ghost » August 12th, 2018, 3:14 am

Moretorque wrote:
August 11th, 2018, 9:21 pm
America did not have to be the way it is, there is nothing in the founding documents about capitalism and this is what Aron has a hard time seeing.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of property. (Pursuit of happiness.) Capitalism wasn't mentioned by name but it was certainly there. Not sure what your point is here.
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Re: Is Capitalism the problem?

Post by Moretorque » August 12th, 2018, 11:35 am

Ghost wrote:
August 12th, 2018, 3:14 am
Moretorque wrote:
August 11th, 2018, 9:21 pm
America did not have to be the way it is, there is nothing in the founding documents about capitalism and this is what Aron has a hard time seeing.
Life, liberty, and the pursuit of property. (Pursuit of happiness.) Capitalism wasn't mentioned by name but it was certainly there. Not sure what your point is here.
Private property is the cornerstone of any civilization where you have rights, he promotes socialism but does not seem to understand socialisms main goal as created by the international bankers is too destroy all property rights and create a top down dictatorship of the financial class.

We can't help it if the sheople cannot understand how America was intended to function...... The founding documents are the best base to create a honest civilization that protects the people but the herd be way too stupid to understand that what we have is the Crown impersonating America with the boot of socialism...... BOO!
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