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The Linguistic Self-hate of Colonized Peoples

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ladislav
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The Linguistic Self-hate of Colonized Peoples

Post by ladislav » October 21st, 2014, 3:37 am

In many countries which had been colonized before, the foreigners who go and live there find a very strange and sick phenomenon- they are accepted in the reverse proportion to how much they want to integrate.

In an ideal situation, a foreigner who comes to a new place should gain acceptance based on how much he's willing to integrate into the local culture-- with language being the main tool. The more effort he puts into it, the greater are his chances.

In a colonially oppressed cultural situation, a perverse thing happens which does not make sense- your integration depends on how much you resemble an ex colonial master in speech and in looks. The more you do so, the greater is the respect and the more benefits are bestowed upon you such as friends, dates, hospitality, etc. However, if you try to learn the local language, some locals start yelling at you, curtly replying in the colonial language, eyes narrowed, lips tightened in anger.

A paradox occurs: the more you try to integrate by respecting the local's culture, the worse the locals treat you.

It basically means this: if you want to be loved by them, don't learn the local language, don't study the local culture, act like a pompous Brit, Spaniard, Dutchman or American. And they'll love you for it. Sick, sick, sick!

It doesn't make sense. It's a mental disorder which is the result of cultural abuse by the ex colonial master resulting in deep inferiority and self hatred. And if you don't love your own culture and if you disrespect yourself, then you won't respect the person who wants to learn about your culture. You will shun him and think he makes fun of you. You will look down on him because you look down on yourself. And you look down on yourself because your colonial master looked down on you for so long!

Seen it in so many countries, so many places.

Is this how things are in many places? Yes! Is this a normal thing; the way it should be? No!

After the colonials go home, should you not stop pining for them, should you not get rid of your inferiority complex and move on with cultural life in your country and in your language? Should you not start welcoming newcomers as a host and master, and not as someone who has to make excuses for being what he is?

Just my thoughts.
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E Irizarry R&B Singer
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Re: The Linguistic Self-hate of Colonized Peoples

Post by E Irizarry R&B Singer » October 21st, 2014, 5:38 am

See, Ladislav. I know this is a recurring issue that you mention, but I feel that especially non-White people should learn the local language in order to be intergrated. I love Latin America because they don't play that "Oooh you speak-a inring-gwesh!! It's okay me know inring-gwesh!" Only like 5-10 percent of Lat Am is like that. Then you are further prepetuating White supremacy i.e. colonial superiority/Stockholm-Syndrome-of-sorts to these people. Now the foreign-language-challenged HA members don't have to study Spanish anymore because they got it like that. See, now those people, who it applies to, don't have to beat themselves over the head trying to learn what "Como se llama ud?" means anymore. But I'm sure some of you pompous types already knew that.

See, SkateboardStephen, he's not White, and what if he had gone to Brasil thinking that only speaking Inngresh would get him by. S#%t, he'd be on a plane back to the U.S. of Gay like our fairweather friend International Love because he wouldn't have gotten by on that only. This is why International Love (American of Asian ancestry: non-White) needs to learn language and grow some cajones because he is non-White therefore non-colonial master and he would need to do that. Same with Hero; with that and some cajones, he would have had more in Dominican Republic even though those women flaked on him.

Minorities have to work twice as hard to exceed: e.g. learning a foreign language just to expatriate there accordingly, have higher grades in school, have more vocational certifications, have a squeaky-clean public record, etc. #LeggoMyEgo :-) Alas I enjoy working harder. #ChrisBrownSmirk

I really hope this demographic stays in the Philippines for the most part; let them take most of the American expat's that have this "superiority complex". I like Lat Am to stay at least 85 - 90 percent Spanish-speaking only. This why when one of my Lat Am chicks says "Me gustaria a aprender ingles" ....I'd correct them by saying, "No te preocupes. No seria necesario aprender ingles. Ese idioma tiene malparido lexico! No vale la pena asi! Se me 'ta falleciendo mucho el idioma a traves del mundo." (Don't worry about it! It's not necesarry to learn such a s.hitty language. Not worth it. My language is pretty much dying worldwide!"

I still feel that even though you feel it's better to remain in the figment of a "colonial master" to them by not learning the language, but it can dangerously spread feminism and stupid Amerinicanisms that unscathed, non-ueber-capitalist, devoid-of-solipsism-pro-familial-unified worlds don't need by having them learning English would would tap them into the nasty American Matrix!!!!
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ladislav
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Re: The Linguistic Self-hate of Colonized Peoples

Post by ladislav » October 21st, 2014, 1:12 pm

Oh, Irrizary, I was not talking about Latin America ( except Puerto Rico, a really insane place).
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Re: The Linguistic Self-hate of Colonized Peoples

Post by E Irizarry R&B Singer » October 21st, 2014, 3:20 pm

ladislav wrote:Oh, Irrizary, I was not talking about Latin America ( except Puerto Rico, a really insane place).
You were mainly talking about SEA, E. Asia mainly right?
It's time to expatriate to evade your fate; it's time to expatriate before the barn door permanently closes on "US" sheep.
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Billy
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Re: The Linguistic Self-hate of Colonized Peoples

Post by Billy » October 21st, 2014, 6:10 pm

Don´t know nothing wrong with it if they think the foreign culture suits them better. It´s not the case like with china where there is a big 5000 years old history behind them. They don´t even know their history so why bother?

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Re: The Linguistic Self-hate of Colonized Peoples

Post by Ghost » October 22nd, 2014, 6:28 am

I assume this is largely about the Philippines. I only learned some words and phrases in Tagalog. And I took an interest in the culture. But I never met any hostility over it. But that was around Manila, so that may have something to do with it. And I couldn't even really talk about anything, so that probably played a part too.

This isn't an idea I really understand. I guess I haven't seen it in action, so it seems odd to me. I always assumed whether or not a people wanted foreigners to learn their language was purely cultural. But whether or not that group was colonized becomes a big part of the culture. So you have a good point. But we do go abroad because it gives us advantages; I won't turn down this advantage nor the others.

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Re: The Linguistic Self-hate of Colonized Peoples

Post by Teal Lantern » October 22nd, 2014, 1:19 pm

ladislav wrote:In many countries which had been colonized before, the foreigners who go and live there find a very strange and sick phenomenon- they are accepted in the reverse proportion to how much they want to integrate.
If I'd known I could get by with grand gestures and a safari hat, I'd have skipped all that language study. :D :mrgreen: :D
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Re: The Linguistic Self-hate of Colonized Peoples

Post by A_American » October 24th, 2014, 3:21 am

ladislav wrote:In many countries which had been colonized before, the foreigners who go and live there find a very strange and sick phenomenon- they are accepted in the reverse proportion to how much they want to integrate.

In an ideal situation, a foreigner who comes to a new place should gain acceptance based on how much he's willing to integrate into the local culture-- with language being the main tool. The more effort he puts into it, the greater are his chances.

In a colonially oppressed cultural situation, a perverse thing happens which does not make sense- your integration depends on how much you resemble an ex colonial master in speech and in looks. The more you do so, the greater is the respect and the more benefits are bestowed upon you such as friends, dates, hospitality, etc. However, if you try to learn the local language, some locals start yelling at you, curtly replying in the colonial language, eyes narrowed, lips tightened in anger.

A paradox occurs: the more you try to integrate by respecting the local's culture, the worse the locals treat you.

It basically means this: if you want to be loved by them, don't learn the local language, don't study the local culture, act like a pompous Brit, Spaniard, Dutchman or American. And they'll love you for it. Sick, sick, sick!

It doesn't make sense. It's a mental disorder which is the result of cultural abuse by the ex colonial master resulting in deep inferiority and self hatred. And if you don't love your own culture and if you disrespect yourself, then you won't respect the person who wants to learn about your culture. You will shun him and think he makes fun of you. You will look down on him because you look down on yourself. And you look down on yourself because your colonial master looked down on you for so long!

Seen it in so many countries, so many places.

Is this how things are in many places? Yes! Is this a normal thing; the way it should be? No!

After the colonials go home, should you not stop pining for them, should you not get rid of your inferiority complex and move on with cultural life in your country and in your language? Should you not start welcoming newcomers as a host and master, and not as someone who has to make excuses for being what he is?

Just my thoughts.
All that doesn't apply in Mexico. if you behaved like a pompous ass, you would be treated like shit. Maybe this is the case in Asia but for sure not in Mexico.

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Re: The Linguistic Self-hate of Colonized Peoples

Post by MrMan » October 25th, 2014, 2:35 am

A lot of what you say does not hold true for Indonesia. If you resemble their former colonizers, the Dutch, they may consider you more attractive, rich, desirable, etc. But they don't diss people for trying to integrate. If you learn Indonesia, people are pleased that you learned it. Most Indonesians tend to be rather polite. Javanese culture highly values politeness. Every ethnic group is a minority there, but the Javanese are the largest minority, I'm thinking maybe 40% of the population. Other people-groups tend to be polite and make you feel comfortable, too, though I've met a few exceptions while traveling.

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Re: The Linguistic Self-hate of Colonized Peoples

Post by Mark_in_Bangkok » December 4th, 2017, 3:14 pm

ladislav wrote:
October 21st, 2014, 3:37 am
In many countries ... foreigners who go and live there find a very strange and sick phenomenon- they are accepted in the reverse proportion to how much they want to integrate.

Yes, indeed.
That is exactly my experience in Thailand over 10+ years.


ladislav wrote:
October 21st, 2014, 3:37 am
... the more you try to integrate by respecting the local's culture, the worse the locals treat you.

My experience in Thailand fits ladislav's conclusions.
And that has come as an unpleasant shock to me, after investing 10+ years and serious money to learn the language here.


ladislav wrote:
October 21st, 2014, 3:37 am
It basically means this: if you want to be loved by them, don't learn the local language, don't study the local culture, act like a pompous Brit, Spaniard, Dutchman or American.

I can't do that, I simply can not do that.

To this problem, I haven't found a solution ... yet.
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