Mutual intelligibility between Slavic languages

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Jackal
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Mutual intelligibility between Slavic languages

Post by Jackal »

I just wanted to ask the members here who are fluent in Russian if they can also understand the following Slavic languages:
Czech
Slovak
Slovenian
Polish

How much of these languages can you understand with your knowledge of Russian? 25%? 50%? 75%?

If you want to test yourself, you can listen to audio files of these languages on these webpages:

http://radio.sbs.com.au/language.php?language=Czech
http://radio.sbs.com.au/language.php?language=Slovak
http://radio.sbs.com.au/language.php?language=Slovenian
http://radio.sbs.com.au/language.php?language=Polish

When I was in Prague, I had a Polish roommate who was studying Czech and he had no trouble understanding Russian. In fact, I was surprised how friendly young Czechs were to the Russian students. I thought they would dislike Russians because of historical reasons, but I guess people have a hard time staying mad at people they can communicate with. Just look at the Americans and the British!
Eduard
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Re: Mutual intelligibility between Slavic languages

Post by Eduard »

Jackal wrote:I just wanted to ask the members here who are fluent in Russian if they can also understand the following Slavic languages:
Czech
Slovak
Slovenian
Polish

How much of these languages can you understand with your knowledge of Russian? 25%? 50%? 75%?

If you want to test yourself, you can listen to audio files of these languages on these webpages:

http://radio.sbs.com.au/language.php?language=Czech
http://radio.sbs.com.au/language.php?language=Slovak
http://radio.sbs.com.au/language.php?language=Slovenian
http://radio.sbs.com.au/language.php?language=Polish

When I was in Prague, I had a Polish roommate who was studying Czech and he had no trouble understanding Russian. In fact, I was surprised how friendly young Czechs were to the Russian students. I thought they would dislike Russians because of historical reasons, but I guess people have a hard time staying mad at people they can communicate with. Just look at the Americans and the British!
I would say closer to 5%. If they speak very slow, probably 10-15%. There are many words with the same route, but pronounciation is different and when they speak fast it's hard to catch. Serbian is probably the closest to Russian, I noticed that I can understand a lot more of it then, say, Czech.
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ladislav
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Post by ladislav »

If they are spoken at normal speed, very little. Some 5%. If they are written down, I can sit and 'decipher' them kind of similar to how an Italian speaker could sit down and 'decipher' Portuguese. I would say 30-40% would be understood if these are Western Slavic languages because Ukrainian is closer to them and I understand it.

Keep in mind that Russian is not the 'middle' Slavic language knowing which you can easily understand other Slavic languages. Russian is very much to the East of all Slavs and has developed very separately. The language that would enable you to understand most Slavic languages would be Slovak or Western Ukranian dialects. If you speak Slovak, then the East, the South and the West Slavic languages would be relatively easy to understand. Most Czechs speak Slovak, that is why they had no problems.

Also, the Czechs have been exposed to Russian through the school system for decades. Do not discount that factor.

To give you another analogy, being an English speaker, how well can you understand other Germanic languages, like these ones:

Afrikaans
Yiddish
German
Swedish
Dutch

?

Probably very little. Try and watch some German TV and you will see what I mean. You would not even get 1-2 % of it, I am sure. Why is that? Because English is not in the 'central' position among these languages. However, if you were a Dutchman, you would have an easier time because your language is kind of half way in between all of these. That is why the Dutch have little trouble learning all the languages around them and can understand German as well as English.
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Evergreen
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How does Polish ranked among these Slavic languages?

Post by Evergreen »

How does Polish ranked among these Slavic languages? I have a few Polish friends and they say to me that they can understand Russian and Ukrainian languages very well. In fact, one of them just visit his home country which is Poland four years ago; then he visited Russia, White Russia(Belarus), and Ukraine, and he had no trouble understanding the people of these former FSU countries.

Perhaps Polish is like the middle ground of Russian and Ukrainian language? Lots of Ukrainian people do business in Poland and vice versa with Polish people doing business in Ukraine since they share the same border.
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Re: How does Polish ranked among these Slavic languages?

Post by Eduard »

Evergreen wrote:How does Polish ranked among these Slavic languages? I have a few Polish friends and they say to me that they can understand Russian and Ukrainian languages very well. In fact, one of them just visit his home country which is Poland four years ago; then he visited Russia, White Russia(Belarus), and Ukraine, and he had no trouble understanding the people of these former FSU countries.

Perhaps Polish is like the middle ground of Russian and Ukrainian language? Lots of Ukrainian people do business in Poland and vice versa with Polish people doing business in Ukraine since they share the same border.
I would say that most likely Ukrainian is the "middle ground" between Russian and Polish. Historically Ukraine was either under Russian or Polish rule, therefore there language is right in between. I also noticed that Polaks understand Russian a lot better than Russians understand Polish. maybe because during Soviet times they were made to study Russian in school?
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ladislav
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Re: How does Polish ranked among these Slavic languages?

Post by ladislav »

Eduard wrote:
Evergreen wrote:How does Polish ranked among these Slavic languages? I have a few Polish friends and they say to me that they can understand Russian and Ukrainian languages very well. In fact, one of them just visit his home country which is Poland four years ago; then he visited Russia, White Russia(Belarus), and Ukraine, and he had no trouble understanding the people of these former FSU countries.

Perhaps Polish is like the middle ground of Russian and Ukrainian language? Lots of Ukrainian people do business in Poland and vice versa with Polish people doing business in Ukraine since they share the same border.
I would say that most likely Ukrainian is the "middle ground" between Russian and Polish. Historically Ukraine was either under Russian or Polish rule, therefore there language is right in between. I also noticed that Polaks understand Russian a lot better than Russians understand Polish. maybe because during Soviet times they were made to study Russian in school?
Well the Russian language is on TV in Poland and they studied it in school for a long time. Russians did not study Polish. Plus Russian is simpler gramattically and pronunciation-wise than Polish the latter having so many consonants in clusters with r+ zh+ sh+ch. If Russian is hard to learn for foreigners, Polish is virtually impossible without very very long instruction.

Ukrainian is kind of like middle ground although not entirely. Do remember that languages mutate and change by themselves and pure Ukrainian is hard to learn for most people even the locals. It has many cases and conjugations as well as letters that have no equivalent in other languages.

Again, look at which Slavic country is in center- Slovakia or Slovenia- these are the middle ground. But unless you seriously want to live there, do not go studying the language unless you have all this free time on your hands. If you go to a country, study a bit then take a phrase book and just go from there.
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Think Different
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Post by Think Different »

I speak Czech and Russian, but found that Czech is what opened most doors to understanding other Slavic languages. As far as speech goes, Russian will allow you to understand perhaps Bylorussian and a little Ukrainian. Czech being older than Russian and more "central", I found it allows me to understand Slovak very well, Slovenian pretty well, and just a tiny bit of Croatian and Polish. Grammatically, Czech is also harder than Russian and has case endings and conjugations that don't exist in Russian. Polish is monstrously difficult and is rated as one of the most difficult languages in the world. Bulgarian is an animal of its own and I can't understand it at all. Seeing these languages written however, you can certainly decipher a lot in other Slavic languages that you would otherwise not be able to understand by speech alone. But there you have the luxury of time and visuals.

If I had to choose one Slavic language to learn that would allow me to understand the most other languages, I would choose Polish. If you had the energy for two, I would add Russian. Polish is centrally located geographically and linguistically and Russian is just practical, due to the size of the country and the business opportunities available. Czech is nearly as hard as Polish and is probably not worth your time and effort. Since I've been back in the US, I have had only two opportunities to ever use Czech, whereas Polish (or Russian) is easy to find speakers of here. I find the Poles are also more easy-going and friendly, and the Czechs tend to be a bit snobbish and stand-offish. Just my personal take, so no offense to anyone.

I will tell you something however, that my Russian professor in university told me 20 years ago: "Russian will gain you nothing. Learn Chinese and Arabic instead." How right he was. Problem was, he told me this, after I was already about to graduate with a degree in Russian. There is no use for Russian anymore, unless you work in trade/business with Russia or just have a desire for cultural or hobby reasons. The Cold War is over.

If you want to check it out, there is an artificial Slavic language out there (in the mold of Esperanto, which is based on Romance languages), called Slovio, which in theory would help you understand multiple Slavic languages. I've never tried it, so I can't speak to its efficacy: http://www.slovio.com/
ladislav
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Post by ladislav »

Lol, this is a cute language. I understood everything.
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dano
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Post by dano »

My understanding is 70% of the words in russian and ukrainian are the same. A russian and a ukrainian can understand each other quite well. Belorussian language is supposed to be closer russian than ukrainian is, about 90% of the words are the same.
ladislav
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Post by ladislav »

My understanding is 70% of the words in russian and ukrainian are the same. A russian and a ukrainian can understand each other quite well.
They are of the same root origin but they are pronounced and written very differently. Also, the way cases are formed, the way words are declined and the way adjectives are changed depending on the case is different.

A rough analogy- German and English ( except English has no cases), for example- colors in German are blau, brun, weiss, rot. You can guess they mean blue, brown, white red. But does it make them 'the same'?

Russians who have not been exposed to Ukrainian for a long time would only understand some 5% of Ukrainian spoken at its natural speed. I asked them when I was in Russia. Now if you slow down and let him guess, he would be able to communicate. For example, I speak Spanish and French quite OK and I can read Italian and Portuguese. But if they start speaking, I can understand very little.
Belorussian language is supposed to be closer russian than ukrainian is, about 90% of the words are the same.
Ditto. They are of the same Slavic origin but they are written and pronounced differently. Hard to understand when spoken at a normal speed. Here are three texts, the first one in Belarussian, then Russian and then Ukrainian.

Усе людзi нараджаюцца свабоднымi i роўнымi ў сваёй годнасцi i правах. Яны надзелены розумам i сумленнем i павiнны ставiцца адзiн да аднаго ў духу брацтва.

Все люди рождаются свободными и равными в своем достоинстве и правах. Они наделены разумом и совестью и должны поступать в отношении друг друга в духе братства.

Всі люди народжуються вільними i рівними у своїй гідності i права. Вони наділені розумом i совістю i повинні діяти у відношенні один до одного в дусі братерства


Let's try the same with Spanish, Portuguese and Italian

Todos los seres humanos nacen libres e iguales en dignidad y derechos. Dotados como están de razón y conciencia, deben comportarse fraternalmente los unos a los otros en un espíritu de hermandad

Todos os seres humanos nascem livres e iguais em dignidade e direitos. São dotados de razão e consciência e devem agir em relação uns aos outros com espírito de fraternidade

Tutti gli esseri umani nascono liberi ed eguali in dignità e diritti. Essi sono dotati di ragione e di coscienza e devono agire gli uni verso gli altri in spirito di fratellanza

The origin is common and one can understand when they are written and spoken slowly. But they are not the same words.
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Jackal
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Re: How does Polish ranked among these Slavic languages?

Post by Jackal »

ladislav wrote: Keep in mind that Russian is not the 'middle' Slavic language knowing which you can easily understand other Slavic languages. Russian is very much to the East of all Slavs and has developed very separately. The language that would enable you to understand most Slavic languages would be Slovak or Western Ukranian dialects. If you speak Slovak, then the East, the South and the West Slavic languages would be relatively easy to understand. Most Czechs speak Slovak, that is why they had no problems.
ladislav wrote: Again, look at which Slavic country is in center- Slovakia or Slovenia- these are the middle ground. But unless you seriously want to live there, do not go studying the language unless you have all this free time on your hands. If you go to a country, study a bit then take a phrase book and just go from there.
ladislav wrote:
Lol, this is a cute language. I understood everything.
Okay, Ladislav, based on this info, what do you think is wisest thing to do for someone who wants to be understood in the most Slavic countries: learn Russian, learn Slovak or Western Ukrainian, or learn Slovio?

And how silly does Slovio sound to you? Does it sound like a language for Slavic cartoon bears? Lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtnrgtwnUrE

BTW, in Hungarian, they also use the word "mackó" for teddybear. I guess it's one of the many Slavic loanwords in Hungarian. Hungarian also borrowed the word "kurva." Lol
Think Different
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Post by Think Different »

That cartoon is cool. It's in Slovak though, not Slovio.

Here's an example of spoken Slovio (artificial language). I understand it fine with no training.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WQ86NjySnY
Last edited by Think Different on August 9th, 2011, 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
Think Different
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Post by Think Different »

Please keep in mind that I'm mentioning Slovio, although there are other Slavic-centric artificial languages out there. However, based on my cursory review of them, Slovio seems to be the most complete at this point, although it is still in flux. I read that it has over 41,000 vocab words now, which is more than enough to communicate in any language.

For those who are seeking to scope out the Slavic lands for brides, girlfriends, travel, etc., this may be an easy ticket. Instead of spending 6 months trying to learn Russian or something with mixed results, take one month to learn Slovio and get going.

Of course, once you find your Slavic dream girl and want to settle down, you better have the good sense to properly learn HER language and not just rely on a "carrier-language", like Slovio. It's only right. Slovio and its ilk are just tools and a way to get closer to the cultures.
Jackal
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Post by Jackal »

Think Different wrote:That cartoon is cool. It's in Slovak though, not Slovio.
Yes, I know. I was just wondering if Ladislav thinks of those kinds of cartoon characters when he hears Slovio.
Think Different wrote: Here's an example of spoken Slovio (artificial language).
Where? I think you forgot to post the link.
Think Different wrote:Please keep in mind that I'm mentioning Slovio, although there are other Slavic-centric artificial languages out there.

For those who are seeking to scope out the Slavic lands for brides, girlfriends, travel, etc., this may be an easy ticket. Instead of spending 6 months trying to learn Russian or something with mixed results, take one month to learn Slovio and get going.

Of course, once you find your Slavic dream girl and want to settle down, you better have the good sense to properly learn HER language and not just rely on a "carrier-language", like Slovio. It's only right. Slovio and its ilk are just tools and a way to get closer to the cultures.
You might be correct. I guess the guess the snobbish language nerd part of me just finds the thought of learning an artificial language distasteful. For example, I always think that it's stupid to learn Esperanto when you could just learn a real dialect of Spanish, but maybe the situation with Slovio is somewhat different.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see what Ladislav says.
Think Different
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Post by Think Different »

Sorry I forgot to add the link. It's added now.
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