Paradox: How can unapproachable AW all be taken?

[Winston]

Here is an interesting paradox for you all to figure out. Sorry if I'm overthinking things again, but hey, that's the curse of being a philosopher. lol

Anyway, here it is:

How can it be that nearly every AW that's decent looking and not ugly is taken (or claims to be), yet at the same time, they are unapproachable and unfriendly to men? I mean, if men can't approach them or hit on them or seduce them, or even talk to them in most cases, how do they all get "taken" as they claim?

Who are the guys that have "taken" them and how did they get them? How are these guys any different or better than us? What do they do that's different? How do their boyfriends/husbands get them if they aren't approachable?

See what I mean? It's sort of a paradox, on the surface at least.

Here is my explanation for the paradox:

1. As OTB explained in his other threads, our problem isn't our looks, since if you look around you, you will see regular average Joes with AW. Our problem is that we are NONCONFORMIST, and thus we don't fit into mainstream cliques in America.

We also think too much, which alienates us from the mainstream, because society is set up for people who follow a routine and do what they are supposed to without thinking too much. It's not set up for people who think too much. Thus, the dumber you are, the easier it will be to get along with others. So we don't get along with many people.

2. In America, social life is all about CLIQUES. You are expected to mind your own business and limit your social interaction to within your own clique or family. AW aren't comfortable talking to strangers. They limit their socializing to within their own clique. If you are outside their clique, they aren't friendly to you. But even if you are in her clique, if you aren't her type, she won't be into you either, which goes without saying. Regardless, we aren't conformists so we don't break into cliques naturally.

3. Therefore, without a clique, the only way we can meet women is through COLD APPROACH. However, cold approach is not welcome in America (except in the movies). It's not an appropriate way of meeting women. AW don't welcome it. Only AW in the movies are open to cold approach, but not the AW in real everyday reality. It's more acceptable overseas in other countries to meet women that way, but not in the US.

4. Therefore, we are out of luck, since we don't fit into cliques, and cold approach isn't welcome or appropriate in America. Thus, we are left out in the cold.

Does that make sense? I think this is a logical explanation. What do you think?

Additional possible explanations:

Another reason may be that we have higher standards than other guys, whereas many American guys will settle for fat unattractive women. But we have standards and won't settle. We want sexy, thin, attractive, youthful looking, feminine women. Or we want higher quality women but are surrounded by low quality women. Of course, some of us want to date out of our league too.

Also, some of us are simply too short, dopey looking, or just not the type of guy that any AW like at all, so we have no chance with them because we are too far out of their type range. Instead of telling us the truth, AW prefer to resort to bullshit shaming tactics such as telling us that we lack "confidence" or some shit like that. Also, some guys always get friendzoned by AW for some reason. It's like AW see the label "friendzone" on their faces.

Still, some of us may be unlucky in that we did find an AW partner, but lost her, or got dumped by her. Or, we were unlucky to have started dating in the 1990's when AW started becoming unfriendly and anti-male. This was the case with me, as I was too shy to date girls until the 1990's.

But I think the four primary points above are the main explanation for this seeming paradox I described earlier, and probably are the biggest reason why we are left out in the cold in America in the dating scene. What do you think?

[The_Adventurer]

It's probably because when they see the bad boy thug they desire, they throw themselves at him.

[Teal Lantern]

How can it be that nearly every AW that's decent looking and not ugly is taken (or claims to be), yet at the same time, they are unapproachable and unfriendly to men?

They are unapproachable and unfriendly to men ... that they aren't attracted to.

I mean, if men can't approach them or hit on them or seduce them, or even talk to them in most cases, how do they all get "taken" as they claim?

Unattractive men can't approach them.
Plenty "taken" women will let you "borrow" them, ... if you're "hawt" enough.

Who are the guys that have "taken" them and how did they get them? How are these guys any different or better than us? What do they do that's different?

The men are interesting (or useful) to the particular woman in some way. They don't have to be "better" by your standards. It's not a merit based scoring system you can take on a scantron.

How do their boyfriends/husbands get them if they aren't approachable?

Men chase, women choose. These guys were chosen.

[loops77]

Women are not responsive to men that they are not attracted to. This is if you are introducing yourself to them cold.

It also gets tiring to politely avoid guys that come on to you, unless you already know them from work, school, hobby activities. Even as an average woman, there are men that try to pick me up several times a day when I am happy being celibate and single..and that is a personal choice, not something that has to do with the man approaching me. Women open up more when they have at least seen you around the block a few times and are familiar with you in some way. That goes for the decent women that I know. Remember that some of us are just protecting ourself from being used since a lot of guys will pretend to be a good guy and fake comittment for sex. Then, when you let your guard down, you find out that the guy isn't what he presented himself to be.

It is true that Americans in general are very cliquey..and most women that I know find their partners in their group. Outsiders are generally overlooked.

I honestly would like to know how most men on here approach women? Do you go for the 9/10 chicks and expect to score everytime? Do you see them as a commodity or as a human being with their own likes/predilections/preferences?

[pete98146]

Here's my quick nickel tour of this topic. In order to be successful with American women you need to fall into the following categories:

1. Above average looks. If you aren't a 7 or above you'll struggle finding women in this country. AW won't settle and have no qualms about passing you over for the next guy. Fair? No, but we don't set the rules. They do.

I know we get tired of hearing about it but it's true. We can get into shape, dress well, get a good haircut etc. This will help your cause. All the pressure is on us to appeal to the female.

2. What is your entertainment value? The modern day AW wants to be entertained. They crave drama. This is the reason why bad boys or ultra funny guys succeed where other guys fail.

3. Earning power. This goes without saying. Unless you are pulling down 45k a year minimum, you need not apply.

4. Are you socially connected? Don't have a big circle of friends? You better be the first guy out there joining the co-ed soccer league, salsa classes, church, community organization etc. Introverts who stay at home might as well forget about dating because you need to be seen to meet women. The more connected you are, the better your chances.

Now make no mistake, a guy can combine a few of these above to make it work. For instance a not so attractive guy who makes 70k a year but he's out hitting the salsa dance circuit on the weekends stands to succeed.

So in summary, dating is HARD WORK in America. Not only are you competing with other guys, you are competing with her career. If you don't stand out to them you might as well "go to jail and do not pass go." Sadly this is the reason why so many guys have just given up on dating.

[loops77]

Why not seek to improve yourself as best as you can? Or, pick women that are more in your league? Fat chicks will go with fat guys...etc etc.

Serious question. What is appealing about a below average guy in looks that has no friends and makes little money? Women can overlook your looks if you have more going for you in other areas. Try to fix what you can. Even average looking guys can look better if they work out, get a tan and wear better looking clothing. It makes a difference. Don't you want the same in return...a good looking woman even if she is not a supermodel?

Join a club, get some hobbies and stop cold approaching women. Get to know people around you and be friendly. After a rapport is developed, you can increase the intensity and pursue her romantically. Have you guys tried this?

Also, a lot of women I know don't seek to be entertained. We don't want a circus for a guy. But you can't be a wooden log either than burries his head in books all day. Take an effort to engage us. Find out our interests. Women that need a thuggish prick in their life are just confused about masculinity and what it means...so yeah it can be attractive, but the smart girls pass it up because they know what that guy will turn into once the fun stops.

Here's my quick nickel tour of this topic. In order to be successful with American women you need to fall into the following categories:

1. Above average looks. If you aren't a 7 or above you'll struggle finding women in this country. AW won't settle and have no qualms about passing you over for the next guy. Fair? No, but we don't set the rules. They do.

I know we get tired of hearing about it but it's true. We can get into shape, dress well, get a good haircut etc. This will help your cause. All the pressure is on us to appeal to the female.

2. What is your entertainment value? The modern day AW wants to be entertained. They crave drama. This is the reason why bad boys or ultra funny guys succeed where other guys fail.

3. Earning power. This goes without saying. Unless you are pulling down 45k a year minimum, you need not apply.

4. Are you socially connected? Don't have a big circle of friends? You better be the first guy out there joining the co-ed soccer league, salsa classes, church, community organization etc. Introverts who stay at home might as well forget about dating because you need to be seen to meet women. The more connected you are, the better your chances.

Now make no mistake, a guy can combine a few of these above to make it work. For instance a not so attractive guy who makes 70k a year but he's out hitting the salsa dance circuit on the weekends stands to succeed.

So in summary, dating is HARD WORK in America. Not only are you competing with other guys, you are competing with her career. If you don't stand out to them you might as well "go to jail and do not pass go." Sadly this is the reason why so many guys have just given up on dating.

[Winston]

It's probably because when they see the bad boy thug they desire, they throw themselves at him.

That may apply to younger AW, but not the older ones. Go out in public in America and you will see plenty of average Joes with AW. You will see it even in your local everyday suburban neighborhood. How do you explain that?

What's wrong with my explanation above?

How can it be that nearly every AW that's decent looking and not ugly is taken (or claims to be), yet at the same time, they are unapproachable and unfriendly to men?

They are unapproachable and unfriendly to men ... that they aren't attracted to.

I mean, if men can't approach them or hit on them or seduce them, or even talk to them in most cases, how do they all get "taken" as they claim?

Unattractive men can't approach them.
Plenty "taken" women will let you "borrow" them, ... if you're "hawt" enough.

True, but the thing you're missing is, very few guys in the US cold approach women. It's just not the way it's done and not appropriate. Even if a guy is hot, most AW aren't comfortable being cold approached, even by a hot guy. Ask AW and they will tell you that. AW aren't hopeless romantics. They don't fall head over heels right away for a hot guy and don't usually believe in love at first sight.

So there has to be another explanation that we are missing. Also, a lot of the explanations you guys give for stuff seems to come from fictional PUA literature, not from real life experiences. People who are experienced with women don't use concepts from PUA like "alpha and beta" or "all AW want bad boys" etc. It's a lot more complex than that.

Go out in public and you will see that there are many average Joes everywhere, even in your neighborhood, that have AW. How do you explain that? What's wrong with my explanation above? I think it logically flows.

[C.J.]

Winston you might as well start working out and act like Jet Li on crank, so you can start getting dumb bitches already and let us know what's up.

I'm gonna do an experiment, to see if looks can help me reach a broader dating pool here or anywhere. Mostly because to me, it seems it doesn't matter WHERE I go. Women all around the world have the same opinion of me;difference is, the poorer they are, the more desperate and deceitful they become(north or south doesn't seem to matter in the PI's case).

If I look great but my romantic results are still terrible, no biggie. My inflated ego will pick up the slack now.

I already went from "I'm a worthless sack of shit!", to "Damn! Lookin' good, me!"
Working my way up to "Man I look so good, I wanna f**k the SHIT outta myself!"

I'm on a quest to finally slim back down to my natural weight of 135 lbs.(lazily, of course lol), and I'm already 207.

The attention I've been getting recently has increased 200%. 200% of 3 people isn't that much though. But you gotta start somehwere.

[Winston]

Here's my quick nickel tour of this topic. In order to be successful with American women you need to fall into the following categories:

1. Above average looks. If you aren't a 7 or above you'll struggle finding women in this country. AW won't settle and have no qualms about passing you over for the next guy. Fair? No, but we don't set the rules. They do.

I know we get tired of hearing about it but it's true. We can get into shape, dress well, get a good haircut etc. This will help your cause. All the pressure is on us to appeal to the female.

2. What is your entertainment value? The modern day AW wants to be entertained. They crave drama. This is the reason why bad boys or ultra funny guys succeed where other guys fail.

3. Earning power. This goes without saying. Unless you are pulling down 45k a year minimum, you need not apply.

4. Are you socially connected? Don't have a big circle of friends? You better be the first guy out there joining the co-ed soccer league, salsa classes, church, community organization etc. Introverts who stay at home might as well forget about dating because you need to be seen to meet women. The more connected you are, the better your chances.

Now make no mistake, a guy can combine a few of these above to make it work. For instance a not so attractive guy who makes 70k a year but he's out hitting the salsa dance circuit on the weekends stands to succeed.

So in summary, dating is HARD WORK in America. Not only are you competing with other guys, you are competing with her career. If you don't stand out to them you might as well "go to jail and do not pass go." Sadly this is the reason why so many guys have just given up on dating.

I suppose anything is possible. But I would not agree with your simple formula above. I know a lot of guys who go out and do social things like you listed, but don't get dates because every single AW friendzones them or tells them that they aren't their type. Some guys can do all the right things but every AW rejects them or friendzones them. We all know guys that are like that.

You are using cliched advice. If you could get dates by going to salsa dances, joining church, going to Meetup.com groups, joining common interest groups, etc. then every guy would do that. But it's not that easy. I tried it for years but didn't get anywhere. I explained this long ago. It was a waste of time. The barriers were still there.

Just because you take a class with a lot of girls isn't going to do anything. The girls aren't going to see you outside of the class and will blow you off with "I have a boyfriend" if you ask them out. If they are all taken, what's the point?

Also, if you're Asian and not very tall and don't look hot by US standards, you are out of luck with AW and will have to resort to finding FOB Asian girls.

I hate it the most when AW tells guys that no AW wants that they have to fix their confidence and heal their wounded soul before they can starting dating AW. That's 1000 percent bullshit, illogical, useless and a false shaming tactic. Such a total f***ing lie. I swear.

[Winston]

I honestly would like to know how most men on here approach women? Do you go for the 9/10 chicks and expect to score everytime? Do you see them as a commodity or as a human being with their own likes/predilections/preferences?

I don't think most men here or anywhere in the US cold approach women. They just talk about it but in real life very few people do it because it's not welcome and is considered creepy and inappropriate and risky. Some girls will call security if you flirt with them, even though technically, flirtation does NOT constitute harassment.

But to answer your question, when guys do approach girls, they will start out with an innocent question or comment, and gauge her responses and try to make polite small talk after that. They will listen to her talk and figure out what she's into and try to connect with her using whatever way they can. They may feign common interests, tell a joke, boast about their accomplishments, or just talk her ear off. Anything they can. You know how it is. Haven't you been cold approached by guys?

I don't believe in a numerical rating system. I just go for girls who are attractive in some way. Or just a little cute or a little above average. Tastes vary. But I don't think women can be rated between 1 and 10.

Guys aren't expecting to score right away. They are hoping to get a number and then a date later, and then warm it up from there.

I don't think a hot woman is seen as an "object" as you and many women think. They are seen as hot women to be desired. We all know they are human but we desire them for their looks too. Men are very visual and fall in love quickly based on looks. We do not classify women as "objects". That is a myth that only women and manginas claim. I would say that we see hot women as somethings between a human and an object, both in one. That would be the most accurate way to put it. But guys are not dumb enough to think that females are inanimate objects like mannequins. Come on now. That is a strange myth.

Does that answer your question?

Why not seek to improve yourself as best as you can? Or, pick women that are more in your league? Fat chicks will go with fat guys...etc etc.

Well even fat women can be picky. But when I was cold approaching AW everyday from 1992 to 1998, I was thin, so no, fat women were not in my league.

Serious question. What is appealing about a below average guy in looks that has no friends and makes little money? Women can overlook your looks if you have more going for you in other areas. Try to fix what you can. Even average looking guys can look better if they work out, get a tan and wear better looking clothing. It makes a difference. Don't you want the same in return...a good looking woman even if she is not a supermodel?

First, AW are always saying that they only care about a guy's personality and ability to make her laugh. It's their lie, not ours. You can't deny that AW are very shallow and bigger on looks than women in other countries, even in the UK.

A lot of guys in the US can't even get an average girls, even if they are above average looking guys. You forget that there are good looking guys in our movement, such as Steve Neese and Steve Hoca. Even Rock is somewhat tall and good looking and clean cut, yet he can't get any AW either.

You have to remember that AW have become MORE and MORE PICKY every year, whereas guys' standards have remained the same. Most guys are happy with a 6 or 7. But a 6 or 7 girl demands a guy who is an 8 or 9. The media has brainwashed them into thinking they are all divas and princesses who deserve the best of the best.

The problem with this is that if every girl thinks they deserve the best of the best, or become very picky, then guys like me have zero chance in the US. It's not fair of course, but life is not fair. So stop trying to insinuate that the US dating game is fair and balanced. We all know for a FACT that it is NOT FAIR. I can personally swear to you that it's not.

Join a club, get some hobbies and stop cold approaching women. Get to know people around you and be friendly. After a rapport is developed, you can increase the intensity and pursue her romantically. Have you guys tried this?

Yes, I tried that between 1992 and 1998 in California and also in the early 2000's in Washington state. I got nowhere. Every girls blew me off and claimed to have a boyfriend. If you think it's that easy, why don't you go out and try to meet or bond with AW and you will see that it's a lot different than you imagine. You are giving old advice that hasn't worked since the 1980's. AW are very picky and if you aren't her type, it doesn't matter how many times she sees you. You are friendzoned at best.

Also, a lot of women I know don't seek to be entertained. We don't want a circus for a guy. But you can't be a wooden log either than burries his head in books all day. Take an effort to engage us. Find out our interests. Women that need a thuggish prick in their life are just confused about masculinity and what it means...so yeah it can be attractive, but the smart girls pass it up because they know what that guy will turn into once the fun stops.

I agree. You may be more down to earth. But the hot airhead AW do say they want to be entertained. So that's what guys are referring to, hot airheadish AW.

I can be very social and talkative and I have good social skills and can make good small talk with anyone. I know how to humor people and tell them what they want to hear too, like Bill Clinton did when he was running for President. But all that doesn't matter. I can talk all day. But at the end of the day, if I'm not her type, it doesn't matter. I'm not her type and all the excuses she gives doesn't change that.

Do you understand? Can you see the bottom line here? For some guys like me, it's always a ZERO SUM game in the US no matter what great advice we follow. We've been there and done that, ever since the 1990's.

You see, there are many ways to meet AW, including the ways you suggested. I could go out and meet 100 AW tomorrow at a social club. But so what? Sure they may socialize with me and act friendly and polite. But if I'm not their type, then all 100 AW I meet tomorrow will either friendzone me, tell me they have a boyfriend, or blow me off. So the end result is zero again. See what I mean? You assume that if we meet 100 AW tomorrow, some of them will be interested in us romantically. But many of us have met hundreds of AW and had zero interest from zero AW. See what I mean? It's NOT as easy or simple as you think. I guarantee you that.

My only chance in the US was to go for FOB Asian girls, but I didn't do that enough because I was into white girls. But after experiencing dating paradise overseas, I have no desire to pursue AW anymore. It's not worth it. In fact, nearly EVERY AMERICAN GUY I've met overseas told me that they DO NOT ever want to go back to trying to date AW again. That speaks volumes. Nearly every expat male has told me that.

It's kind of like this: If you were given super powers like Superman, would you ever want to go back to being a normal mortal again? No of course not. If you became a millionaire, would you ever want to be poor again? No of course not. Likewise, guys who experience a dating scene overseas that is a million times BETTER and more NATURAL and PLEASANT than in the US, do not want to go back to all the bullshit here again. After all, if you have far better choices in a far friendlier environment, why would you ever want to try dating in such a hostile environment like the US again? Does that make sense?

I know you can't relate to this from experience, but at least try to understand conceptually.

Haven't you read my home page or the key benefits of Foreign women page?

Finally, you forget that many of us have great success in cold approaching girls in Europe, Russia, Asia, or South America. So what's wrong with sticking to what works? Why stay in America and play a losing game and feeling insecure about yourself everyday? That's terrible. I certainly do NOT feel insecure in Europe, only in the US, because US culture makes you feel insecure. Why do you think most people in the US develop big egos? They have to, because they were raised to feel insecure. Feeling insecure is not natural or normal. I certainly don't feel insecure in most other countries.

You gotta consider that, and stop assuming that America is the world and that the only dating options are in America. They are not. Don't you get our message?

[Hero]

Why not seek to improve yourself as best as you can? Or, pick women that are more in your league? Fat chicks will go with fat guys...etc etc.

Serious question. What is appealing about a below average guy in looks that has no friends and makes little money? Women can overlook your looks if you have more going for you in other areas. Try to fix what you can. Even average looking guys can look better if they work out, get a tan and wear better looking clothing. It makes a difference. Don't you want the same in return...a good looking woman even if she is not a supermodel?

Join a club, get some hobbies and stop cold approaching women. Get to know people around you and be friendly. After a rapport is developed, you can increase the intensity and pursue her romantically. Have you guys tried this?

Also, a lot of women I know don't seek to be entertained. We don't want a circus for a guy. But you can't be a wooden log either than burries his head in books all day. Take an effort to engage us. Find out our interests. Women that need a thuggish prick in their life are just confused about masculinity and what it means...so yeah it can be attractive, but the smart girls pass it up because they know what that guy will turn into once the fun stops.

I agree with Winston's response to this. I tried doing everything you suggested. I worked hard for a very long time to improve myself to the point where I would be worthy of a halfway decent American woman. I got a Ph.D., then a job at an Ivy-League school, got myself into excellent physical shape, took up lots of cool hobbies like travel, tennis, ballroom dance... and I was still getting rejected by women who had no business being picky! For me, the last straw was when I was dating an overweight, 42-year-old, single mom who dumped me because I didn't have a "wild side". But when I traveled to foreign countries like Hungary, the Czech Republic, the Ukraine, and the Philippines, beautiful women couldn't keep their hands off of me!

Loops, you seem to think that any frustrated guy who can't find a suitable woman must be a total loser who's just not trying hard enough. Well, I know plenty of guys who are anything but losers, and yet they can't find a quality wife. Hell, I know an extremely successful doctor, a graduate of West Point and Bethesda Medical school, who actually married a disfigured girl with a speech impediment. So please, give it a rest already. We've all heard this bullshit that you're spewing a million times, and we're not listening to it anymore. That's why we're seeking love abroad rather than working our asses off here for no reward.

[C.J.]

I suppose anything is possible. But I would not agree with your simple formula above. I know a lot of guys who go out and do social things like you listed, but don't get dates because every single AW friendzones them or tells them that they aren't their type. Some guys can do all the right things but every AW rejects them or friendzones them. We all know guys that are like that.

There are a lot of guys like that. But I also know a ton of guys who have decent girlfriends/wives who're faithful and frequently making kids with them, possibly because of pete98146's post.

You are using cliched advice. If you could get dates by going to salsa dances, joining church, going to Meetup.com groups, joining common interest groups, etc. then every guy would do that. But it's not that easy. I tried it for years but didn't get anywhere. I explained this long ago. It was a waste of time. The barriers were still there.

True. However, you can also meet a decent woman too. You can pick your spots and just have fun. How can you meet someone you want, if you don't get out and FIND THEM? If nothing else, you'll have a new skill/story to talk about! That isn't a lie! That also helps.

A lot of guys don't do it, because they don't want to put any effort into making their OWN lives. My brother barely gets out, because he thinks he can't find a girlfriend for himself. That may be true, but he may be able to make his life much more interesting, if he just settled for some temp sex to tide him over! The temp might like him enough to be more than just a temp!

If you just live life for the sake of some perfect bitch, then you're gonna be pretty unhappy, obviously. Sometimes, you may have to settle for something less if you really want it. Who knows? Maybe things will work out in the end? Happens to me a lot nowadays. Sometimes, if you want your life to go as planned, you may have to change plans.

Just because you take a class with a lot of girls isn't going to do anything. The girls aren't going to see you outside of the class and will blow you off with "I have a boyfriend" if you ask them out. If they are all taken, what's the point?

The point is NOT to ask them out right away. You'll come off as some kind of creep, and they don't know you that well anyway. I'd be creeped out if a girl asked me out, 5 minutes after seeing me too! Either she's my soulmate, or some kind of soulSUCKER

In my experience, you gotta spend TIME in the class. Once people are around you more, you seem more like a regular. Someone they can get to know. People who you may not think you could get in your entire life, start TALKING TO YOU! O_O

People who you may not know, want to be your friend. This has happened my whole life, so I can at least vouch for THAT happening. Whatever you do, don't do anything with the desired outcome being getting laid. Might as well go to the strip club for that.

Also, if you're Asian and not very tall and don't look hot by US standards, you are out of luck with AW and will have to resort to finding FOB Asian girls.

Try your own group at home as well. I've seen Asian guys with many other girls. I don't know how often it happens though.

I hate it the most when AW tells guys that no AW wants that they have to fix their confidence and heal their wounded soul before they can starting dating AW. That's 1000 percent bullshit, illogical, useless and a false shaming tactic. Such a total f***ing lie. I swear.

I will tell you one thing. Fixing your "confidence" and healing your "wounded soul" is WAY more fun, than walking around sad! Best thing I've ever done.

[Teal Lantern]

True, but the thing you're missing is, very few guys in the US cold approach women. It's just not the way it's done and not appropriate.

Then develop Winston Wu's warm approachâ„¢. You could sell 1000's of copies.

So there has to be another explanation that we are missing.

Not "we". You won't accept there is no magic formula to let an Asian guy instantly create genuine sexual attraction from any random sober white girl he finds hot.

Also, a lot of the explanations you guys give for stuff seems to come from fictional PUA literature, not from real life experiences. People who are experienced with women don't use concepts from PUA like "alpha and beta" or "all AW want bad boys" etc. It's a lot more complex than that.

More than one woman had told me some variation of 'girls like bad boys, but they don't make good husbands'", long before PUA became well known.

Every man's life will not mirror yours for 20 different variables & reasons. Some guys are going to do, see, and experience things that won't happen to you and vice versa. That doesn't make it fiction.

[loops77]

You gotta consider that, and stop assuming that America is the world and that the only dating options are in America. They are not. Don't you get our message?

I'm not assuming. I know that there is a big world out there. I was just trying to pick your brains and gain a little perspective. I guess I wonder why there are still complaints about AW still since everyone seems to be over seas or trecking overseas. I personally shun away from dating American men and I have had good luck doing that. I guess I'm just trying to see the otherside of the coin.

But, In your post, you said that you see average guys with good looking women all of the time. Isn't that proof that, hey, AW don't always get with hot guys with money, status, and...whatever you guys think attracts women?

[loops77]

Loops, you seem to think that any frustrated guy who can't find a suitable woman must be a total loser who's just not trying hard enough. Well, I know plenty of guys who are anything but losers, and yet they can't find a quality wife. Hell, I know an extremely successful doctor, a graduate of West Point and Bethesda Medical school, who actually married a disfigured girl with a speech impediment. So please, give it a rest already. We've all heard this bullshit that you're spewing a million times, and we're not listening to it anymore. That's why we're seeking love abroad rather than working our asses off here for no reward.

I don't think that. I was just trying to offer a bit of advice and try to understand the other side of the coin. I was just trying to provide a little feedback based on what me and my friends experience dating as in this country. I have roots from somewhere else though, so I guess I may not be the average AW.