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Moderated area for expat living and dating discussions. Members only. Must qualify with good knowledge, experience, character to be member and participate. See guidelines inside. Civil behavior only. No trolls, attacks or insults.
As you may know, I have been living in Kiev, Ukraine this summer and it has been an absolute pleasure thus far.
The only two negatives have been separate incidents involving Americans who approached me in nightclubs and became obnoxious problems.
Incident number one: I am in a club enjoying my drink and the gorgeous women go by. All of the sudden, this half-intoxicated frat boy looking kid holds his hand up for a fist bump. Granted a fist bump is something for high school students, I give a half-hearted one to make him go away then I turn away. Big mistake! By giving the fist bump back, the kid thinks I like him and he is dancing around me, gesturing that we are buds, and slapped me on the backside. The boundaries having been crossed, I turned to him with a WTF expression and he drunkenly spreads his arms with a "What of it?" His friends jump in and apologized to me right before I decked him.
Incident number two: Less than a week later, I am in another bar/club, and I feel somebody's hand on my shoulder. I turn and it is some well-dressed fellow black guy acting like my best friend. I lightly removed his hand from my shoulder and quizzically asked, "Do I know you?" He then says he has been living in Kiev for the last 5 years and that I would "need his help." I told him, "You seem like a nice enough guy, but I'm not here to talk to guys, only girls." He then tried to say he knew all the girls in the club and he could help me. I told him, "I don't need any help and I am in Kiev precisely to AVOID Americans. Have a good night." He went berserk and used profanities and shouted, "See that guy right there? He's more important than everybody in the world!"
So damned if you do and damned if you don't with Americans abroad. If you indulge them, they become pests. If you try to avoid them, they get offended and become obnoxious. I'm thinking of just speaking Russian in the future and just being more direct with the brush off.
Locals and those from other countries are NEVER like this. They respect boundaries, the don't act overly familiar, and they are generally very pleasant. Americans have this entitled, arrogant way about them that I am glad to not have to deal with full-time anymore. Moreover, "Familiarity breeds contempt."
Any advice you can give on this? This is not to say ALL Americans are like this, just the precious few who see themselves as god's gift abroad and make things worse for the rest of us.
For an example of an obnoxious American getting out of pocket in Russia and being dealt with swiftly, see this (the key is at the end):
You nailed it on how entitled they are. These unfettered megalomaniacs simply conduct themselves like this. I loathe it when I'm speaking Spanish and then the other speaker breaks out into English and they never heard me speak English before. It's like they are implying that they stereotype me as an American nigger and that makes me livid. On the other hand, I'm mistaken to be Puerto Rican when I tell them I am Brazilian American. México is weird. The American expats as well as the bilingual Mexicans annoy me the most.
Keep in mind that this is a public forum and that a lot of anonymous guests surveying our posts. You've been becoming comfortable in rendering your un-American whereabouts as of late. Kiev will become Cancun or the Philippines if you keep this up. The only time I render "cointel" is if the place utterly sucks (I.e. overran with American locusts and/or bigoted). I'm in Guadalajara now. Women are not respectable I.e. they never say Buenos Dias unless it's part of a financial transaction but the men are definitely more welcoming to me in manners).....it's a North American thing (Mexico is part of North America).
It's time to expatriate to evade your fate; it's time to expatriate before the barn door permanently closes on "US" sheep.
- Follow me on Twitter @eirizarryRNB
If I were you, I would keep doing what you're doing in order to handle these situations. I too am a snob towards Americans abroad. 99% of Americans would not give you their rib back 'home'; this will not change abroad.
It's time to expatriate to evade your fate; it's time to expatriate before the barn door permanently closes on "US" sheep.
- Follow me on Twitter @eirizarryRNB
I suspect you're right. Americans like these (not everyone of course) seem like predators who want to invade your space, and milk you of information, or if they cannot, disturb your peace and peace of mind.
From now on, I speak only Russian to Americans abroad unless they are vetted and decent.
I have long seen similar things, though I tend to lump Westerners in general together. Think about how German nationals or a lot of Eurotrash in general act in places like SE Asia or Latin America. Talk to innkeepers about who they will rate as their worst guests. Americans will rarely top the list, they will just get honorable mention.
Interesting take. In my experience, only Brits and others from the Anglosphere come anywhere close to the issues that Americans pose for me. Germans, Dutch, and other non-British Europeans have been FAR more respectful of boundaries to the point where I can actually warm up to them very quickly. Perhaps I've been just lucky with them so far, but I think it is that lack of familiarity that preserves their respectful distance.
In his book, The Gift of Fear, Gavin de Becker talks about Pre-Incident Indicators that Western expatriates should become aware of:
Forced Teaming This is when a person implies that he has something in common with his chosen victim, acting as if they have a shared predicament when that isn't really true. Speaking in "we" terms is a mark of this.
Charm and Niceness This is being polite and friendly to a chosen victim in order to manipulate him or her by disarming their mistrust.
Too many details If a person is lying they will add excessive details to make themselves sound more credible to their chosen victim.
Typecasting An insult is used to get a chosen victim who would otherwise ignore one to engage in conversation to counteract the insult. For example: "Oh, I bet you're too stuck-up to talk to a guy like me." The tendency is for the chosen victim to want to prove the insult untrue.
Loan Sharking Giving unsolicited help to the chosen victim and anticipating they'll feel obliged to extend some reciprocal openness in return.
The Unsolicited Promise A promise to do (or not do) something when no such promise is asked for; this usually means that such a promise will be broken. For example: an unsolicited, "I promise I'll leave you alone after this," usually means the chosen victim will not be left alone. Similarly, an unsolicited "I promise I won't hurt you" usually means the person intends to hurt their chosen victim.
Discounting the Word "No" Refusing to accept rejection.
Though I left out several details in describing the exchange, incident number two had 5 of the 7 Pre Incident Indicators in the space of a 2 minute conversation. Hmmm....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gift_ ... icators.29
The infection has already started. Most of them are now selling their 5 dollar eBooks on how to be Digital Nomad and live a life of comfort and luxury in Asia with minimum cost.
I don't understand this eBook thingy - The moment an American goes out of his country, he starts writing blogs, making videos online only as a HOOK to later sell you something. I'm super annoyed by these kinds on Jewtubers now a days from America.
The moment he becomes popular, he has something to sell you..or a Patreon Link to keep making videos etc..
They only like you or share information NOW, so that they could get out of you something LATER ON...I thought these kinds of programs have stopped running on earth but it seems they are more powerful now a days.
The other thing with Americans/Europeans are...They are very particular with the most informal settings around..The more casual the place..The more formal they are...
I saw in Insomnia Club in Pattaya....90% of the tables were already RESERVED by 7 PM and when I came back late at night..it's all Europeans/Americans sitting on those tables...happened to me straight 2 months.
They plan their moves even to a Nightclub...I thought going to a nightclub would be a spur of the moment thingy... ..Apparently not, You need a well laid out plan on how to get hookers in Thailand.
They are well organised, well defined and categorised and then smartly can make money out of it
Since, Insomnia gets crazy crowded, you have to stand somewhere and if you by mistake stand near their tables...they give you THAT obnoxious LOOK and a hint they do not like you to be near their tables....
A hooker accidently bumped into me, since it was very crowded, there was no way out, other than to squeeze ....I didn't know she was with someone..but her guy shouted at me...You Apologise to her...I was like ...REALLY DuDe....I could have never imagined I would be asked to Apologise to a Hooker because some American/European guy has her now...before my brain cells could think of anything...The Thai girl dragged the guy away..but he still was eyeing me out till the exit
Honestly, When I was Kid...We were told Americans were the luckiest people on earth, 20 years later ....hmmmmm...We now all know the truth ..guess the freemasonic propaganda they did in schools worked....
Interesting takes. You might be onto something in that these Americans were about making connections to either sell something or extract insight for their ventures.
About Americans being the luckiest people on earth, complete Hollywood-created myth the the world tends to still believe. I do, however, think that the Red Pill American man is among the luckiest in the world because:
-We are smart enough to avoid being entrapped by our horrible women.
-We have American passports which unlock the doors to the outside world to us.
-The earning potential of Americans is the envy of the world.
-The dollar is still strong as heck compared to other currencies making life abroad a pleasure.
-Most desirable countries welcome our presence (for the moment.)
But I agree, to have to live in the US of Gay - as EIrizarry calls it - is a chore at best, and a second class existence at worst for men.
I know several US-citizens living in Japan since many years, they are technicians, teachers in international schools or doing other qualified jobs and there is absolutely no problem with them.
It also should be noticed, that US-citizens living abroad are not known to me to be into criminal activity.
However many unexperienced US-tourists but also evangelists, feminists, do-gooders etc. from USA consider their own life-style within USA as 'universal' and immediately after arrival in a far away foreign country try to teach locals not only what might be good for them, but even go so far to say that what they are doing now is wrong and bad. Sometimes also attacking verbally other foreigners or making fun out of locals telling them how stupid they are.
If those men and women, sometimes locals, sometimes foreigners living long-term in those countries are talking back, those US-citizens are often getting upset and verbally abusive.
I remember an US-citizen in Thailand who told to a simple salesgirl in a department store how stupid she is as she cannot speak good English - this was a bit too much for me and I asked him in return 'how many languages do you speak'? He was looking at me like I am the man on the moon.
I also remember an evangelist who was moving around my area in Pattaya near my second home and explaining locals not only that Jesus is the savior, but also that Buddhism is a bad religion.
Here in Tokyo I remember an US-feminist who was talking to a Japanese woman - the Japanese woman remained very polite, said 'thank you for talking to me, but I have nice parents and a good husband and I do not want to work...'
in return she was called to be a lazy bitch.
Also one day in Tokyo I was approached by a Jehovah on his mission. I was first thinking maybe a Korean, but it turned out he was Asian-American from Hawaii.
I told him from the first sentence on, I am not interested. I told him the same a second time, a third time... suddenly he said to me 'kiss my ass' and left.
Further there are US-do-gooder-groups in Japan, conplaining about all and everything, however most government offices simply said do not care.
Something like missing anti-spanking laws, or missing child-support laws and such BS.
One time a US-woman said to me, why do have public urinals in Tokyo in the parks no doors? I answered that this is not your business, how can this disturb you? Look away. You are not using them anyway. What else shall I say?
I also remember a priest from USA, who is walking around nightclubs and bars in Thailand with a bullhorn and a Bible in his hands, disturbing bargirls and customers telling them to repent their sins.
This is really very unique with people from USA. I have never seen in all Asia any other foreign citizen doing this... Russians and Chinese for example often show up with bad behavior in public in foreign countries during their vacation but they never criticise the life-style of the locals or other foreigners next to them.
This is true. And the sad thing is, the US Government actually pays for these do-gooders to spread their feminism, and social justice malarkey via grants to non-governmental organizations (NGOs).
Trump is cutting back at this waste that actually damages the perception of the USA instead of enhancing it.
I, and others, are abroad because we want a change from the American Toxic Culture. The last thing we want to see is an export of that around the world. It is bad enough that young people in Ukraine are now smartphone zombies because of American influence.
The only Americans I ever encounter in the Filipino province I reside, are young Mormons on a mission. They tend to talk rather weirdly, walk for hours on end rather then take a jeepney. My father-in-law once caught two of them stealing SIM cards in a convenient store. He didn't alert the Filipino store owner but was very amused, as these are the guys always telling others how to live their lives. The holier-then-thou facade, it breaks down so easily once you know these people a little better.
Having said that, the other foreigners who live here are not of the highest moral caliber either. Drunk Brits, drunk Dutch and German guys, drunk Chinese fighting and shouting in public, I've seen it all. There was one Dutch guy who would get drunk in a Filipino friend's house to the point where he could no longer walk and his friend had to carry him home repeatedly. One time he woke up in the middle of the street and started cursing his Filipino neighbors in Dutch, challenging them to a fight. He's lucky no one took him up on his offer, as he would have gotten his scrawny lily white 5'6" ass kicked easily. Another guy I know is a Chinese restaurant owner who drinks Red Horse every day. outside of his establishment. He picks fights with the chef of his rival next door, and even insults the greeting lady continuously to the point where he makes her cry, causing his rival restaurant owner to make a scene. A very nasty character. And this is not at all uncommon from what I've seen. The nastiest men I have met, have not been Americans. But maybe that is because I tend to avoid Americans anyway. Australians and New Zealanders I have met have been pretty friendly and nice for the most part. Remarkably politically incorrect as well. The sort of company a man can feel at ease in.
If Americans back home upset you enough for you to consider leaving your country, keep in mind that the Americans you will encounter abroad will be even worse as they are the dregs of society, the least attractive, least accomplished and bottom of the barrel specimens of the very place you tried to flee. You would be a fool to associate with them.
I'd say a large percentage of Whites from Europe, Americans, Aussies, Middle Easterners, Africans, and especially Jews and Chinese, are some of the worst people I've encountered abroad. Basically, most people are garbage regardless of race, ethnicity and sex.
You will generally attract people who are like minded, so I've always been friends with good people, for the most part. Avoid people that you feel uncomfortable with, whoever that may be. ..., and befriend people you are comfortable with.
As for avoiding expats, that's a good call. Only befriend a few expats, but avoid most others.
I hold Americans of all ethnicities in equal contempt, with exceptional people like most of our forum Americans being the exception. For the record, the American in incident number 1 was white, and the one in incident number 2 was black. They both were toxic douche bags in equal measure.
I do subscribe to the pick and choose method of associations. Don't let these kind of people choose you; you choose the people you want in your circle.
On a side note, when I was naive and used to associate with Americans decades ago, I found it both odd and disturbing that the first thing Americans want to know after you've been introduced is what you do for a living. Couple of problems I have with this. First, I never wanted to define myself by what I did for a living so I rarely answered the question. Second, that question is indicative of the, "What can you do for me?" mentality. On the other had, most locals overseas never cared what I did for a living and when they did know, it was an afterthought to them because they don't define themselves by their careers either.
"How do you like to spend your time?" or "What kind of things do you like to do?" are much healthier questions. When sailors meet in an anchorage or marina, its not about what you do for a living. Its about where you have been and where you are going.