Hi all,
I pointed out to Rock last night that I've been to MANY restaurants in Angeles and Manila and I NEVER see middle class Filipinos there (who can afford to eat there) with any foreigners. They are always in groups or families of Filipinos.
When I brought this up on PinoyExchange.com forums though, they debated me and said that I was wrong and that middle class Filipinos do hang out with foreigners as long as they are decent. Whether that's true or not, all I know is what I see with my own eyes, and that is that I never see middle class Filipinos with foreigners in restaurants. And I've been to MANY restaurants. It's as simple as that.
On the other hand though, in Taiwan, you will often see middle class people eating with foreigners, and often treating the foreigner too. Same in America. Rock pointed this out too. So what is the problem in the Philippines? Why is the middle class here so snobby and homogenous?
What I don't get is that middle class Filipinos are usually into American movies, pop culture, and into international foods too. So then why do they never like hanging out with American people or international people? That's odd.
The implications of this are not good. What that means is that ONLY the Filipinos who can't pay shit for anything and need other people to pay for everything want to hang out with foreigners, while the Filipinos who are able to pay for food and drinks do not want to hang out with foreigners. WTF?! That sucks.
What logically follows then, is that once Filipinos have money, their closed minded prejudices start surfacing and taking over their personality. Right? If so, then aren't they more racist than people in other countries, once they have the chance to be racist? And wouldn't Ladislav's claim that the Philippines is the least racist in Asia be untrue when it comes to the middle class?
This is ironic though, since Filipinos are the most mixed race in Asia.
Even Dianne says that her friends don't want to see me cause I'm a foreigner and they only want to hang out with Filipinos. Go figure. She also says that her ex-boyfriend is part of her group of friends, which is why I can't see them too. Whatever.
Middle Class Filipinos vs. Taiwanese Re: Foreigners
Middle Class Filipinos vs. Taiwanese Re: Foreigners
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You may be right, actually. Add to this the fact that there are very few foreigners in the Philippines who are working in companies or schools so that they could meet middle class people through work. In Taiwan and Japan there are relatively big numbers of teachers and other professionals working with and at local companies/schools.
And there are many exchange programs, friendship programs, etc. So, they go out after work/ exchange program. In RP, the number is small to non existent. Most foreigners here- males that is- are of the caliber that would rather hang out in a go go bar and have a beer or a lay than seek out middle class families to hang out with. So, that aggravates the situation. Also, in Japan, if a girl agrees to date a foreigner she will not require a long courtship and would be alone. With a middle class Filipina, she would want a courtship that is 6 months to a year long plus bring her mother everywhere she goes. Most foreigners do not have time or money to live in RP for this long.
And I guess, yes, once Filipinos have the money, they can afford to be prejudiced.
But luckily the middle class people and the rich are few and most people are just living from hand to mouth even if educated. These are not prejudiced. They cant afford to be and many have diplomas and are articulate and nice to talk to.
I have not lived in Taiwan, but in Japan it is the lower classes who are the prejudiced ones and who practice racism, but not the middle + upper ones. So, say if you are a foreigner in Japan, you can date a middle class professional easily but rarely a farmer's daughter or some clerk. Many of these hate foreigners. Same with the US and other Anglo countries, actually, the lower the class, the more bigoted. You virtually never see some "white trash" girl with a foreigner unless it is another "Anglo". No British working class family want their daughter to marry some "wog" even if local born.
And there are many exchange programs, friendship programs, etc. So, they go out after work/ exchange program. In RP, the number is small to non existent. Most foreigners here- males that is- are of the caliber that would rather hang out in a go go bar and have a beer or a lay than seek out middle class families to hang out with. So, that aggravates the situation. Also, in Japan, if a girl agrees to date a foreigner she will not require a long courtship and would be alone. With a middle class Filipina, she would want a courtship that is 6 months to a year long plus bring her mother everywhere she goes. Most foreigners do not have time or money to live in RP for this long.
And I guess, yes, once Filipinos have the money, they can afford to be prejudiced.
But luckily the middle class people and the rich are few and most people are just living from hand to mouth even if educated. These are not prejudiced. They cant afford to be and many have diplomas and are articulate and nice to talk to.
I have not lived in Taiwan, but in Japan it is the lower classes who are the prejudiced ones and who practice racism, but not the middle + upper ones. So, say if you are a foreigner in Japan, you can date a middle class professional easily but rarely a farmer's daughter or some clerk. Many of these hate foreigners. Same with the US and other Anglo countries, actually, the lower the class, the more bigoted. You virtually never see some "white trash" girl with a foreigner unless it is another "Anglo". No British working class family want their daughter to marry some "wog" even if local born.
Last edited by ladislav on April 10th, 2011, 2:08 am, edited 3 times in total.
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
Two other questions:
1. How come when I go to Jollibee, I see hundreds of Filipinos paying for their fast food? Yet every Filipino around me claims that they can't afford to pay for anything? WTF? Something is very fishy about that. Sheesh. I don't buy it.
2. How come many Filipinos think that I ought to treat them simply because I'm a foreigner? As I understand it, the only reasons you treat someone are: 1) She is your date, 2) He/She is a good friend of yours, 3) He/She went out of their way to do a favor for you, 4) He/She is a guest of yours.
But just because someone is a foreigner??? That doesn't fit into any of the above. So what is the logic behind that? Really weird.
1. How come when I go to Jollibee, I see hundreds of Filipinos paying for their fast food? Yet every Filipino around me claims that they can't afford to pay for anything? WTF? Something is very fishy about that. Sheesh. I don't buy it.
2. How come many Filipinos think that I ought to treat them simply because I'm a foreigner? As I understand it, the only reasons you treat someone are: 1) She is your date, 2) He/She is a good friend of yours, 3) He/She went out of their way to do a favor for you, 4) He/She is a guest of yours.
But just because someone is a foreigner??? That doesn't fit into any of the above. So what is the logic behind that? Really weird.
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Mr S
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Ha, ha this is so true about Filipinos. Once they have money they move into their own world. Even the educated Filipinos I work with do not generally want to hang out with us foreigners when we are traveling or even eat breakfast/lunch/dinner together. They'll sneak off together, then if you see them they will make up some lame excuse why they didn't invite you along or something. Not that I care to dine with them anyways, but at least offer if you are bringing other coworkers along. So They will go off in their own groups together and do their own thing. There are only two Filipinos (one male/female) that I work with who would rather hang out with foreigners. The guy is a bit weird in retrospect. He doesn't really act like a typical Filipino so that's probably why. The female went to school for a bit in America and England so is used to Westerners. For some reason educated Filipinos who grew up in PI have an aversion to foreigners. They look down at us unless we can prove our wealth. If we are just an average joe they think we are white trash and no worthy of their association. Especially if you have a lower class girl ar a GF or wife, then they really look down at you. If you are someone trying to mingle with the upper classes and have a low class Filipina as a wife, it will be difficult to be successful to say the least.
I mentioned this before but whenever I take public transportation Filipinos don't like sitting next to foreigners. There has to be no seats left before they will consider sitting next to one.
But Filipinos generally do everything together in groups and if your more independent then you won't really enjoy hanging out with them anyways. I don't like eating together in large groups, only with people I know and am comfortable with. However in the Philippines it's expected to do that if you work together. IF you go off eating lunch by yourself you will be considered weird and a recluse to them, antisocial. At least my job I can do what I want and not have negative repercussions because of my Western tendencies. When I previously worked for a Filipino style local company it was much more difficult to be myself with being labeled by the locals as anti-social in their eyes. So what if I want to eat my lunch by myself, who the f**k cares? Well nosey Filipinos generally do...
@Winston/Ladislav: Sometime when we are together I can tell you more elaborately about middle and upper class Filipinos that I have met and mingled with since being here. It will help to confirm what you are saying here but too long to write about in detail. Ladislav, you will probably be able to see some of what I am talking about when you start traveling and staying in the upper class hotels. Since you speak Tagalog and like intermixing with the locals you probably won't have any problems with the office staff doing things with them if you want to. They will probably like hanging out with you occasionally while in other cities if you want to do that. Most of them are Catholic Bible bangers so I don't really care to anyways.
I mentioned this before but whenever I take public transportation Filipinos don't like sitting next to foreigners. There has to be no seats left before they will consider sitting next to one.
But Filipinos generally do everything together in groups and if your more independent then you won't really enjoy hanging out with them anyways. I don't like eating together in large groups, only with people I know and am comfortable with. However in the Philippines it's expected to do that if you work together. IF you go off eating lunch by yourself you will be considered weird and a recluse to them, antisocial. At least my job I can do what I want and not have negative repercussions because of my Western tendencies. When I previously worked for a Filipino style local company it was much more difficult to be myself with being labeled by the locals as anti-social in their eyes. So what if I want to eat my lunch by myself, who the f**k cares? Well nosey Filipinos generally do...
@Winston/Ladislav: Sometime when we are together I can tell you more elaborately about middle and upper class Filipinos that I have met and mingled with since being here. It will help to confirm what you are saying here but too long to write about in detail. Ladislav, you will probably be able to see some of what I am talking about when you start traveling and staying in the upper class hotels. Since you speak Tagalog and like intermixing with the locals you probably won't have any problems with the office staff doing things with them if you want to. They will probably like hanging out with you occasionally while in other cities if you want to do that. Most of them are Catholic Bible bangers so I don't really care to anyways.
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor and stoic philosopher, 121-180 A.D.
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Mr S
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Because as foreigners we are rich and have an unlimited supply of money available to use at our discretion. We don't need to budget our finances. We are walking ATM machines. We're all from America where money grows on trees and the roads are paved with gold! Come on, you already forgot about how prosperous your home country is already? Shame on you!Winston wrote:Two other questions:
1. How come when I go to Jollibee, I see hundreds of Filipinos paying for their fast food? Yet every Filipino around me claims that they can't afford to pay for anything? WTF? Something is very fishy about that. Sheesh. I don't buy it.
2. How come many Filipinos think that I ought to treat them simply because I'm a foreigner? As I understand it, the only reasons you treat someone are: 1) She is your date, 2) He/She is a good friend of yours, 3) He/She went out of their way to do a favor for you, 4) He/She is a guest of yours.
But just because someone is a foreigner??? That doesn't fit into any of the above. So what is the logic behind that? Really weird.
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor and stoic philosopher, 121-180 A.D.
Yeah I've noticed that too. On a bus, Filipinos don't usually like to sit next to me unless there are no other available seats. I've always wondered why that is. Maybe deep down they hate us? But then again, many of them think that I'm Filipino and talk to me in Tagalog too.
Anyhow, if what you say is true Mr S, then that means that deep down inside, Filipinos are not really good people. But then again, what do you expect from people who believe that lying, cheating and stealing are ok, and lack any pride, dignity and honor? Thus, expats should not keep splurging tons of hard earned cash on them.
An Aussie friend who talked to me and Rock last night, told me that the reason why low class Filipinos immediately splurge whatever money they are given (whether it's 500p or 100,000p) is because whenever they are given large amounts of money, they hold an expensive party in which they announce their extra cash, and then their relatives/friends in turn come and borrow the remaining cash that's left over. Sometimes they will hold a neighborhood fiesta in which they have a giant party and treat everyone in the neighborhood, which can cost around 40,000p.
One guy I know here gave his ex-wife 700,000p. Her family ended up splurging it all and now live in the same dingy slum shack they lived in before, and eat out of garbage cans. They could have bought a new house with it, a new car, and invested in a business, which would have been the smart thing to do. But they didn't cause that's not how they think. f***ing morons.
Yet this expat continues to give his ex-wife money in spite of that. Why do expats never learn? They just repeat the same mistakes over and over again. Sheesh. God damn. What a waste.
They spoil it for us by raising expectations that we all love to splurge and that if we don't, then there is something wrong with us.
Anyhow, if what you say is true Mr S, then that means that deep down inside, Filipinos are not really good people. But then again, what do you expect from people who believe that lying, cheating and stealing are ok, and lack any pride, dignity and honor? Thus, expats should not keep splurging tons of hard earned cash on them.
An Aussie friend who talked to me and Rock last night, told me that the reason why low class Filipinos immediately splurge whatever money they are given (whether it's 500p or 100,000p) is because whenever they are given large amounts of money, they hold an expensive party in which they announce their extra cash, and then their relatives/friends in turn come and borrow the remaining cash that's left over. Sometimes they will hold a neighborhood fiesta in which they have a giant party and treat everyone in the neighborhood, which can cost around 40,000p.
One guy I know here gave his ex-wife 700,000p. Her family ended up splurging it all and now live in the same dingy slum shack they lived in before, and eat out of garbage cans. They could have bought a new house with it, a new car, and invested in a business, which would have been the smart thing to do. But they didn't cause that's not how they think. f***ing morons.
Yet this expat continues to give his ex-wife money in spite of that. Why do expats never learn? They just repeat the same mistakes over and over again. Sheesh. God damn. What a waste.
They spoil it for us by raising expectations that we all love to splurge and that if we don't, then there is something wrong with us.
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WorldTraveler
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Blowing Money on Big Parties and Showing Off
I have seen this many times in the villages. As soon as poor Filipinos get money they blow it on parties. I've seen $700 birthday parties for a child where they invite most of the village. Of course it is not just ice cream and cake, it's how many pigs can they buy. But think about this, they all live in shitty houses so why would they want to spend this money to move to a different villiage with nicer houses. Then they'd just be poorest in the new neighborhood. It is more important to be a big fish in a little pond than a little fish in a big pond. They just throw these big feasts to impress everyone that they have money and want to repay others for the feasts they have attended in the past.
I have seen this in the US. Years ago I dated a Hispanic girl. Every New Years Eve, she bought a new party dress (which she may wear only once), she rented a limo to go to the event, then paid about $200 for cover for all you can eat and drink. Of course she thought this was a great use of her $500.
Maybebbbbbbbbbbbbb
I have seen this in the US. Years ago I dated a Hispanic girl. Every New Years Eve, she bought a new party dress (which she may wear only once), she rented a limo to go to the event, then paid about $200 for cover for all you can eat and drink. Of course she thought this was a great use of her $500.
Winston wrote:Yeah I've noticed that too. On a bus, Filipinos don't usually like to sit next to me unless there are no other available seats. I've always wondered why that is. Maybe deep down they hate us? But then again, many of them think that I'm Filipino and talk to me in Tagalog too.
Anyhow, if what you say is true Mr S, then that means that deep down inside, Filipinos are not really good people. But then again, what do you expect from people who believe that lying, cheating and stealing are ok, and lack any pride, dignity and honor? Thus, expats should not keep splurging tons of hard earned cash on them.
An Aussie friend who talked to me and Rock last night, told me that the reason why low class Filipinos immediately splurge whatever money they are given (whether it's 500p or 100,000p) is because whenever they are given large amounts of money, they hold an expensive party in which they announce their extra cash, and then their relatives/friends in turn come and borrow the remaining cash that's left over. Sometimes they will hold a neighborhood fiesta in which they have a giant party and treat everyone in the neighborhood, which can cost around 40,000p.
One guy I know here gave his ex-wife 700,000p. Her family ended up splurging it all and now live in the same dingy slum shack they lived in before, and eat out of garbage cans. They could have bought a new house with it, a new car, and invested in a business, which would have been the smart thing to do. But they didn't cause that's not how they think. f***ing morons.
Yet this expat continues to give his ex-wife money in spite of that. Why do expats never learn? They just repeat the same mistakes over and over again. Sheesh. God damn. What a waste.
They spoil it for us by raising expectations that we all love to splurge and that if we don't, then there is something wrong with us.
Maybebbbbbbbbbbbbb
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momopi
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If the person(s) in question saved & invested money wisely instead of blowing it on neighborhood fiestas, they probably wouldn't be living in the slums.
There are plenty of Filipinos who are willing to work hard and earn $$. These are the motivated types who leave the country and get better paying jobs abroad. My buddy's wife is from the Philippines and she wanted to be a doctor, but her family had many children so they could only afford to send her to pharmacy school. She got her degree in PH then came to the US to attend pharmacy school, passed her exam and received multiple 6-figure pay offers. She contributes to her family by paying her brother's college tuition. As an interesting side note, her parents didn't have an issue with a daughter leaving the country, but insisted that their son stay in PH to inherit the family estate. In their mind, they think if they let the son go abroad, he'd never return. IMO he has good potential to go abroad and work in IT field, but since this is someone else's family affair I kept my mouth shut at their dinner table. ;p
My parents live in TW and they had a number of hired help and maids. The worst ones were from Indonesia, and the best ones from Philippines. From personal experience, the maids from PH tend to be the self-motivated types who want to be there to work, versus the ones from Indonesia tend to be the rejects that can't find a job elsewhere and somehow ended up in a maid agency. We had one Filipina maid, Judy, who worked hard and saved her $$ while her husband and family took care of the kids back in PH. By the time that she completed her contract and moved back home, she made enough to pay off her house and is doing well.
If we look at stats from 2004, the median household income for Filipino Americans was $65,700 vs. $57,433 for Chinese-Americans (US Census, 2004). See: http://www.census.gov/prod/2007pubs/acs-05.pdf
There are plenty of Filipinos who are willing to work hard and earn $$. These are the motivated types who leave the country and get better paying jobs abroad. My buddy's wife is from the Philippines and she wanted to be a doctor, but her family had many children so they could only afford to send her to pharmacy school. She got her degree in PH then came to the US to attend pharmacy school, passed her exam and received multiple 6-figure pay offers. She contributes to her family by paying her brother's college tuition. As an interesting side note, her parents didn't have an issue with a daughter leaving the country, but insisted that their son stay in PH to inherit the family estate. In their mind, they think if they let the son go abroad, he'd never return. IMO he has good potential to go abroad and work in IT field, but since this is someone else's family affair I kept my mouth shut at their dinner table. ;p
My parents live in TW and they had a number of hired help and maids. The worst ones were from Indonesia, and the best ones from Philippines. From personal experience, the maids from PH tend to be the self-motivated types who want to be there to work, versus the ones from Indonesia tend to be the rejects that can't find a job elsewhere and somehow ended up in a maid agency. We had one Filipina maid, Judy, who worked hard and saved her $$ while her husband and family took care of the kids back in PH. By the time that she completed her contract and moved back home, she made enough to pay off her house and is doing well.
If we look at stats from 2004, the median household income for Filipino Americans was $65,700 vs. $57,433 for Chinese-Americans (US Census, 2004). See: http://www.census.gov/prod/2007pubs/acs-05.pdf
Last edited by momopi on April 11th, 2011, 9:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Mr S
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That's why the Philippines will remain a bastion of corruption because all the motivated people with brains are leaving the country to immigrate to Western ones instead of remaining in the Philippines to fight the current system and make their country better for future generations. The elites of the country love this cause they don't have to deal with organized rebellions against the current system. The poor will occasionally have mass rally's but they aren't organized or smart enough to be able to bring it up to the next scale to actually create any real change. The Philippines will continue to be a backwater country for many decades to come, it could actually possibly get worse in the future because of increased population and less resources to support them.
I interview hundreds of people a month trying to immigrate out of the country in one way or another. Most try to get into nursing/engineering or some kind of skilled worker job like welding or mechanic to get out of the country. There are so many people that do nursing degrees but I bet most of them don't want to be one, they are only doing it cause it's an easy out of the country if you pass all the requirements. Actually getting a good English IELTS mark is probably the hardest for most of them because the English in the Philippines is shit nowadays and getting worse. Nurses need to get a band score of 7 or above to get a work visa as a nurse. Most are under that score.
I interview hundreds of people a month trying to immigrate out of the country in one way or another. Most try to get into nursing/engineering or some kind of skilled worker job like welding or mechanic to get out of the country. There are so many people that do nursing degrees but I bet most of them don't want to be one, they are only doing it cause it's an easy out of the country if you pass all the requirements. Actually getting a good English IELTS mark is probably the hardest for most of them because the English in the Philippines is shit nowadays and getting worse. Nurses need to get a band score of 7 or above to get a work visa as a nurse. Most are under that score.
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor and stoic philosopher, 121-180 A.D.
What about the Filipinos I see in restaurants, and in houses in gated communities? Don't some of the lower class save up to buy a house and car, thus becoming "middle class"?
So basically, most people in the Philippines fall into two categories:
1) greedy, shameless, leeching, lacking in pride, dignity and honor (lower classes), or
2) snobby, stuck up, unsociable outside of their clique, and think they are royalty (middle and upper classes)
Gee, what two shitty extremes. Why is it hard to find someone who is decent, has pride, dignity, morals, yet is open, friendly, down-to-earth, fun and sociable at the same time? Why is such a combination of traits so hard to find? I possess such traits, so why can't others?
Could it be that Filipinos are so easily corruptible and changeable because they lack any true inner beliefs and convictions? Just a theory.
So basically, most people in the Philippines fall into two categories:
1) greedy, shameless, leeching, lacking in pride, dignity and honor (lower classes), or
2) snobby, stuck up, unsociable outside of their clique, and think they are royalty (middle and upper classes)
Gee, what two shitty extremes. Why is it hard to find someone who is decent, has pride, dignity, morals, yet is open, friendly, down-to-earth, fun and sociable at the same time? Why is such a combination of traits so hard to find? I possess such traits, so why can't others?
Could it be that Filipinos are so easily corruptible and changeable because they lack any true inner beliefs and convictions? Just a theory.
Check out my FUN video clips in Russia and SE Asia and Female Encounters of the Foreign Kind video series and Full Russia Trip Videos!
Join my Dating Site to meet thousands of legit foreign girls at low cost!
"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne
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"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne
This country with this level of corruption will NEVER go away
Once President Marcos left, it went wrong all the way up until now..
I have met some quite rich people and they told me that
from their perspective, this country's current economy is SO well protected and very Democratic....
only for those 10% of the people, this country exists...
And I am trying my ass off to think of a way to blend into that in 10 year frame from now on....
Once President Marcos left, it went wrong all the way up until now..
I have met some quite rich people and they told me that
from their perspective, this country's current economy is SO well protected and very Democratic....
only for those 10% of the people, this country exists...
And I am trying my ass off to think of a way to blend into that in 10 year frame from now on....
If you see unusual things happening, tell yourself "Welcome to the Philippines!!" and you can finally understand the truth...
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momopi
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Have you visited rural, farming areas of PH, a good distance away from the cities? Perhaps Ladislav can comment.Winston wrote:What about the Filipinos I see in restaurants, and in houses in gated communities? Don't some of the lower class save up to buy a house and car, thus becoming "middle class"?
So basically, most people in the Philippines fall into two categories:
1) greedy, shameless, leeching, lacking in pride, dignity and honor (lower classes), or
2) snobby, stuck up, unsociable outside of their clique, and think they are royalty (middle and upper classes)
Wow guys, this thread is depressing. PI has been the darling Happier Abroad destination on this forum for so long and now some are looking underneath the surface and discovering that its not so perfect after all.
I've been kicking around Angeles P4P district for several days now and have ventured a bit into more normal areas and venues as well. When you visit a new place for the first time, perceptions can be a yo-yo of ups and downs.
1. In normal areas of Angeles, people seem polite, easygoing and relaxed. But I don't feel special or particularly noticed. It contrasts strongly with visit a few months ago to Shekou area of Shenzhen where I did feel a bit special as a Chinese speaking foreigner. I mean in just a few days, I had conversations with over 20 strangers. I remember going into a Subway sandwich shop, ordering in local language, and getting friendly attention from staff plus another customer (young female teacher) who invited me to sit down and join her. At the bank where I opened my account, the young female account executive was very friendly and warm to me. Ironically, when a young Filipino couple came to open an account and she asked me to help translate, they were both pretty frosty when I tried to make small talk with them about the Philippines and my visits there. This was in spite of the help I gave them. In general, I so far don't feel anymore comfortable approaching strangers here than in China. But I haven't tried much yet so that impression may change.
2. P4P industry is very small compared to Patts. But so far, attitude seems generally a lot better. The girls seem to having fun at work, even among themselves when no customers are around. The bars and people are not at all pushy except for the touts on the streets peddling assorted items. Bargirls seem to be regulated by the government and get tested every week. They all have several ID cards with various info hanging from their necks. Most bars have a few "Cherry Girls" who are virgins. They can go out with customers too but no sex, just some intimacy at best. On the grounders like Winston say the attitude has gotten a lot worse since 2008 or so. But it still seems quite good to me. In many ways, I reckon Angeles is a throwback to Patts 15 years ago. The bars are simpler and not so glitzy and Vegas like. The girl to customer ratio is much higher. Girls seem to seldom reject customers unlike Patts where LT expats will tell you its very common for the less attractive guys at least. Girls who stand outside are generally friendly and sweet and can go in the bar and sit with an interested customer. In many Patts bars, those door girls are just unfriendly no-touch eye-candy to entice you in. Girls seem to be less calculating, just going with the flow and doing what they are supposed to be doing instead of strategically maximizing their incomes.
3. Quality so far is better than expected. Average age seems much lower than in Thai too. But girls are generally quite short. In Thailand, the tallest 2 or 3 girls in the bar will generally be 5'8" to 5'9". Here it seems to be 5'5" to 5'6" if you are lucky. Ladyboys have flooded a lot of areas in Thai P4P venues including bars. In Angeles, they seem to be much less numerous and very well segregated, certainly none in the bars. If you walk-up and down Fields long enough, you are going to see few stunners. I've made note of 2 so far - one I talked to and the other with an older white foreign boyfriend but I managed to get the lowdown on her from a local I had help me out. The one I talked to - 5'8", very classy looking with a super cute face, and slim but curvy body, perfect skin, looked about 20 but was actually 25, definitely not in line with the stereotype we discussed before. The other was simply gorgeous - 5'9", slim but with wide hips, beautiful class looking face, lighter skin, would be a dream girl for Korean guys. Anyway, I found out she used to work in a bar (for about 1 year) but the guy with her became her boyfriend so she quit dancing and became a head waitress at one of the other bars, not going at all with customers. One of her former colleagues told me she was extremely popular because of her height and beauty but was still a very nice person. A lot of the bar people have been very open and nice without expecting anything in return.
4. Fields is small enough that if you spend any amount of time there (over 2 or 3 weeks) you're going to start being recognized by everyone. You will be very visible and they will all figure you out. After my first two days, the touts and flower girls have been practically ignoring me cus they know I'm not a buyer.
5. I've had discussions with 3 experienced guys - Winston, Lad, and P (an Aussie guy who's been going to both Thai and PI since the 80s and has mixed children in both). Impression I get is that unlike Taiwan, Thailand, or even parts of China, there is virtually no casual fun segment of girls. They are either bargirls or conservative types who need to be courted several months with a view towards marriage. You can cheat them by pretending but if you do, you will cause damage and hurt. But, I did meet a 22 year old girl in McDonalds (not very pretty but fairly tall) who was a nursing student. She claimed to have never made friends w/foreigners in person (only Filipinos) except for a couple uncles and a lot of Facebook friends. Anyway, she was open to touching and casual fun (except sex) with no strings attached. It remains up for discussion by old hands like Mr. S as to whether or not the tall urban light skinned classy types (my favorite by far) are at all available for serious westerners who put in all the effort and work. Lad hypothesizes that to go for those types, you have to play the numbers game, knock on a bunch of doors and see wht you end up with.
To be continued as I finish out this trip and have more ups and downs.
I've been kicking around Angeles P4P district for several days now and have ventured a bit into more normal areas and venues as well. When you visit a new place for the first time, perceptions can be a yo-yo of ups and downs.
1. In normal areas of Angeles, people seem polite, easygoing and relaxed. But I don't feel special or particularly noticed. It contrasts strongly with visit a few months ago to Shekou area of Shenzhen where I did feel a bit special as a Chinese speaking foreigner. I mean in just a few days, I had conversations with over 20 strangers. I remember going into a Subway sandwich shop, ordering in local language, and getting friendly attention from staff plus another customer (young female teacher) who invited me to sit down and join her. At the bank where I opened my account, the young female account executive was very friendly and warm to me. Ironically, when a young Filipino couple came to open an account and she asked me to help translate, they were both pretty frosty when I tried to make small talk with them about the Philippines and my visits there. This was in spite of the help I gave them. In general, I so far don't feel anymore comfortable approaching strangers here than in China. But I haven't tried much yet so that impression may change.
2. P4P industry is very small compared to Patts. But so far, attitude seems generally a lot better. The girls seem to having fun at work, even among themselves when no customers are around. The bars and people are not at all pushy except for the touts on the streets peddling assorted items. Bargirls seem to be regulated by the government and get tested every week. They all have several ID cards with various info hanging from their necks. Most bars have a few "Cherry Girls" who are virgins. They can go out with customers too but no sex, just some intimacy at best. On the grounders like Winston say the attitude has gotten a lot worse since 2008 or so. But it still seems quite good to me. In many ways, I reckon Angeles is a throwback to Patts 15 years ago. The bars are simpler and not so glitzy and Vegas like. The girl to customer ratio is much higher. Girls seem to seldom reject customers unlike Patts where LT expats will tell you its very common for the less attractive guys at least. Girls who stand outside are generally friendly and sweet and can go in the bar and sit with an interested customer. In many Patts bars, those door girls are just unfriendly no-touch eye-candy to entice you in. Girls seem to be less calculating, just going with the flow and doing what they are supposed to be doing instead of strategically maximizing their incomes.
3. Quality so far is better than expected. Average age seems much lower than in Thai too. But girls are generally quite short. In Thailand, the tallest 2 or 3 girls in the bar will generally be 5'8" to 5'9". Here it seems to be 5'5" to 5'6" if you are lucky. Ladyboys have flooded a lot of areas in Thai P4P venues including bars. In Angeles, they seem to be much less numerous and very well segregated, certainly none in the bars. If you walk-up and down Fields long enough, you are going to see few stunners. I've made note of 2 so far - one I talked to and the other with an older white foreign boyfriend but I managed to get the lowdown on her from a local I had help me out. The one I talked to - 5'8", very classy looking with a super cute face, and slim but curvy body, perfect skin, looked about 20 but was actually 25, definitely not in line with the stereotype we discussed before. The other was simply gorgeous - 5'9", slim but with wide hips, beautiful class looking face, lighter skin, would be a dream girl for Korean guys. Anyway, I found out she used to work in a bar (for about 1 year) but the guy with her became her boyfriend so she quit dancing and became a head waitress at one of the other bars, not going at all with customers. One of her former colleagues told me she was extremely popular because of her height and beauty but was still a very nice person. A lot of the bar people have been very open and nice without expecting anything in return.
4. Fields is small enough that if you spend any amount of time there (over 2 or 3 weeks) you're going to start being recognized by everyone. You will be very visible and they will all figure you out. After my first two days, the touts and flower girls have been practically ignoring me cus they know I'm not a buyer.
5. I've had discussions with 3 experienced guys - Winston, Lad, and P (an Aussie guy who's been going to both Thai and PI since the 80s and has mixed children in both). Impression I get is that unlike Taiwan, Thailand, or even parts of China, there is virtually no casual fun segment of girls. They are either bargirls or conservative types who need to be courted several months with a view towards marriage. You can cheat them by pretending but if you do, you will cause damage and hurt. But, I did meet a 22 year old girl in McDonalds (not very pretty but fairly tall) who was a nursing student. She claimed to have never made friends w/foreigners in person (only Filipinos) except for a couple uncles and a lot of Facebook friends. Anyway, she was open to touching and casual fun (except sex) with no strings attached. It remains up for discussion by old hands like Mr. S as to whether or not the tall urban light skinned classy types (my favorite by far) are at all available for serious westerners who put in all the effort and work. Lad hypothesizes that to go for those types, you have to play the numbers game, knock on a bunch of doors and see wht you end up with.
To be continued as I finish out this trip and have more ups and downs.
This is in sharp contrast to what I have been hearing from "Christian Singles Registry".
Here is a link, containing hours of testimonies from Christian American truckers who came over to the Philippines to marry and can't say enough good things about their wives.
http://www.live365.com/stations/mock1950?site=pro&play
I wonder if one's perception could be altered by one's intent and behavior. For example, if someone is going to the Philippines to monger, they are going to hang out in the shit holes of the country and meet manipulative people who are out for money. Further, if people pick up that you are a monger, they will treat you with less respect, and the good people will avoid you. And marrying a poor woman who isn't religious is an extreme risk. You are really dependent on her to have the morals to be honest and marry you for love and not a hidden agenda. Your only protection is that she has values and is preferably a virgin.
I am just trying to understand the reality here. Do the above testimonies sound real? I don't know. I have never been to the Philippines.
Here is a link, containing hours of testimonies from Christian American truckers who came over to the Philippines to marry and can't say enough good things about their wives.
http://www.live365.com/stations/mock1950?site=pro&play
I wonder if one's perception could be altered by one's intent and behavior. For example, if someone is going to the Philippines to monger, they are going to hang out in the shit holes of the country and meet manipulative people who are out for money. Further, if people pick up that you are a monger, they will treat you with less respect, and the good people will avoid you. And marrying a poor woman who isn't religious is an extreme risk. You are really dependent on her to have the morals to be honest and marry you for love and not a hidden agenda. Your only protection is that she has values and is preferably a virgin.
I am just trying to understand the reality here. Do the above testimonies sound real? I don't know. I have never been to the Philippines.
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The_Adventurer
- Experienced Poster
- Posts: 1383
- Joined: August 23rd, 2007, 9:17 am
Don't see this a depressing, Rock. I think some people are just taking off the rose colored glasses after spending some real time in a place. But et's not forget that Philippines is not Manila, Angeles and Cebu. Real life exists out there. Look at the pics Momopi posted. I have been to some places like that.
Living in the province is a totally different experience. If someone really wanted to be happier abroad and would be satisfied with a simple life in a rural province, with a real family, and not feel the need to cheat on their girl and run around with hookers, Phils could be a great place for that. With a little money, or a simple net business, one could retire forever, be done with the rat race, and enjoy true freedom. LEt's not forget these advantages of life there.
That said, it's not for everybody. Some will not be satisfied with that and want a roaring nightlife full of different girls. My recommendation to any such person, is have money! It's not like you need US level incomes still. Also that person might consider making a hoe base somewhere they can keep up a good image, and then travel a lot and have their fun in other islands, cities or provinces. After all, do something strange in your home base and everyone will know and you ruin your chances of getting anything serious later on.
The fact is, if someone wants to constantly run around playing with different girls, they still need a bit of cash. Not a LOT, but some. If someone wants to retire, settle down and have a nice family life, Philippines can still be an ideal place, if they don't mind some of the things that exist everywhere there.
Living in the province is a totally different experience. If someone really wanted to be happier abroad and would be satisfied with a simple life in a rural province, with a real family, and not feel the need to cheat on their girl and run around with hookers, Phils could be a great place for that. With a little money, or a simple net business, one could retire forever, be done with the rat race, and enjoy true freedom. LEt's not forget these advantages of life there.
That said, it's not for everybody. Some will not be satisfied with that and want a roaring nightlife full of different girls. My recommendation to any such person, is have money! It's not like you need US level incomes still. Also that person might consider making a hoe base somewhere they can keep up a good image, and then travel a lot and have their fun in other islands, cities or provinces. After all, do something strange in your home base and everyone will know and you ruin your chances of getting anything serious later on.
The fact is, if someone wants to constantly run around playing with different girls, they still need a bit of cash. Not a LOT, but some. If someone wants to retire, settle down and have a nice family life, Philippines can still be an ideal place, if they don't mind some of the things that exist everywhere there.
“Booty is so strong that there are dudes willing to blow themselves up for the highly unlikely possibility of booty in another dimension." -- Joe Rogan
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