Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.
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Figured I post this here..... I saw this documentary a few days ago and really was not prepared to watch it. Walked around depressed for a day.
After watching this I was even more ashamed to be an American, and I'm angry with some of the retired solders I know that I have talked to about this who just brushed it off that, "*** happens during war!"
The documentary is called, "For hours in My Lai"
BTW, the black guy being interviewed IN THE BEGINNING is dead now, he killed himself in 1997 or so, both his kids are dead also. And thank god, I hope he's burning in HELL!
Comments taken from the same video, but cut up version. on youtube:
"America deserves 9/11 and many more.god keep punishing these jew loving scums"
"i read up on this and this makes me sick. sick to my stomach. i cant believe tha they were over there killing children like this . CHILDREN!!?? SICK f***s THEY ARE. no wonder there is so much disgust for this country. it is rightly deserved"
"You think those people all had a quick bullet to the head? You need to look into it a lot deeper. They were tortured first. They had their tongues cut out. They were raped. Children had limbs shot off. You seriously need a reality check."
I'm reading In Our Image, about US involvement in the Philippines. The US-Filipino War was almost as bad, some 200,000 filipinos died in the engagement, mostly civilians. American generals would order whole swaths of villages burned to the ground in retribution for some rebel activity. I love this country, but there are points of our history that are romanticized to the point of absurdity. Or, like this particular war, airbrushed from the history books. Whoops.
Even though I served in the military, I'm not ashamed to criticize the past actions of our soldiers in various wars. War is mostly a racket anyway, read General Smedley Butler's book "War is a racket." After reading it, you'll realize the only people that benefit from war are corporations and the military industrial complex, as Dwight Eisenhower warned about in his farewell speech.
....and you know the depressing thing? Their enemies (the North Vietnamese and NLF) committed much greater atrocities (The Hue massacre) - and unlike with the My Lai massacre, the Hue massacre and its victims are generally forgotten by most (not that I'm trying to dismiss the My Lai massacre victims as unimportant, mind).
War is not a pretty business; those soldiers were right in saying that atrocities characterise every war. Dismissing the murder of innocent civilians was still incredibly callous on their part, though.
Human nature is generally quite disgusting, so every country will have these moments of shame. Is it right? No. Unfortunately, that is what humans can be like - vile, murderous, rapacious beings. The most we can do is try to be different from those faceless killers.
And as a result the Filipinos are the most US loving nation you can find. They sing American songs in clubs as a matter of pride, try and go to a night club and watch the performance- swaggering singers faking a Texan accent-, they also walk around Manila with giant letters USA on the T shirts they wear and many dream of going to the USA. The US Embassy in the morning has quite a line in front of it, too.
In VN, too, Americans get a lot of respect and marrying an American is a dream of many a girl there.
Here in Indonesia I have not seen even one "Holland" T-shirt or heard even one Dutch song on the radio. In Malaysia I did not see even one Union Jack.
There must be something about the way Americans kill people that make nations fall in love with them- maybe it is magic bullets dipped in a love potion or something?
A brain is a terrible thing to wash!
That's seriously funny! I'm thinking it's because after the US has gone in and kicked everyone's ass, the US government goes back in with $hitloads of taxpayer money to "rebuild" the country, bribing leaders, making certain people rich, etc. and making them mindless drones by giving them MTV and Paris Hilton. I mean this half-facetiously.
"Even though I served in the military, I'm not ashamed to criticize the past actions of our soldiers in various wars. War is mostly a racket anyway, read General Smedley Butler's book "War is a racket." After reading it, you'll realize the only people that benefit from war are corporations and the military industrial complex, as Dwight Eisenhower warned about in his farewell speech."
Here's the book in downloadable PDF format:
Understand, the human brain, soul, and conscience is a complex animal. I think most of us, especially at young ages, can be programmed and prodded to do horrible things. Corporations are amoral, not immoral. They are designed to simply maximize profits in any way possible. War is also amoral. Its aim is to destroy the enemy. So governments train and brainwash young soldiers to be killing machines, some would even say monsters. Just look through your history book at events which went down during war times. Most Japanese I meet seem very docile and tame. But many of Japanese soldiers based in China prior and during WWII made sport of raping, torturing and killing masses of locals, both soldiers and civilians, including women and children. Their closest equivalent to My Lai might be the Nanking Massacre of 1937 which resulted in around 200,000 casualties. And Japan didn't even want to admit to the crimes or apologize. You can go back 100s or 1,000s of years and see these patterns of extreme human cruelty. A few years ago, I visited some of the Khmer Rouge torture sites in Cambodia. It can be people attacking their own or foreigners who look very different. Its all the same in the end.
As for the black guy featured in the vid, perhaps you shouldn't hate on him so much. He clearly paid dearly - his child dying in his arms and the ongoing emotional torment which drove him to commit suicide at the young age of 48. It appears that he regretted his actions and felt deep remorse.
I really appreciate the rare type of person who has the ability to see out of the box he's put into and the courage to stand-up against what he knows is clearly wrong. A small minority of the men in Charley, in spite of their very young age, did this. They are a different kind of heroes - heroes of mankind. As for me, I honestly don't know what I would have done if I were in his shoes at 19 and gone through all that brainwashing. I tended to trust authority a lot when I was in school.
Depravity is a pretty common attribute in humanity. I think atrocities such as genocide served an innate survival function back in the day. There's a reason why some individuals are excited by rape and murder or can be conditioned to accept it in situations in war where normal social rules are broken down. Everyone has the potential to be a monster but in war you need your cold blooded sociopaths just like you need accountants and scientists. It was a part of tribal survival. Conquering the rival tribe, raping their women, and looting was the way humanity settled their differences for several millenia. Integrating their genes with that of your tribes. Racism, classism, etc.. all have its roots in this very basic concept. Deep down it's still all about survival of the fittest.
These things haven't really changed there are just more eyes watching any conflict to regulate the levels of depravity with public commentary from a broader audience. People haven't evolved out of that natural drive to destroy. I don't believe people are any more civilized now than back then. It's just that we can rationalize these things better and weigh direct consequences. Under the behest of a motivated government with the right message that psychological kill switch for murder and rape can still be flipped any time.
Thanks TD, I read that pdf last night. Is that the whole book though? I don't think so..
About the book:
1. I always knew something was funny about the medals. I mean, I always wondered why men thought they were so important when they were not even real gold/silver like Olympic medals. It's just silly, they ask you to put your life on the line to do something and in return they pin a cheap medal on your chest and send you out the door.
2. I don't see anything changing anytime soon. Why? Because, no.1, too many men don't know how to survive on their own so they have to rely on the government to feed them.
And no. 2, servicemen don't seem to be the brightest bunch so they will continued to be exploited by men who are smarter then them.
It's terrible, don't those guys know how their superiors think of them:
Henry Kissinger: "Soldiers Are Dumb, Stupid Animals to Be used as pawns".
Last edited by NorthAmericanguy on Mon Aug 29, 2011 3:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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