Why are white expats in Taiwan leaving for the Philippines?

[Falcon]

What do you all make of that? How do you explain it? Why would a white guy who has high quality, white skinned, refined, professional, intelligent Taiwanese women available to him want to even both with the Philippines, Angeles City or Filipinas?

Don't you EVER again use the words "white-skinned" and "Taiwanese" in the same sentence.

East Asians aren't yellow. They're usually white or brown.
Europeans often aren't white. They're usually yellow or red.
Africans aren't black. They're dark chocolate brown.
American Indians aren't red. They're brown.

Of course, exceptions always abound.

It's all only skin-deep.

[Falcon]

Turks can be white, red, yellow, and brown! They have a wide range of looks. And no, I don't think it matters for blind people (does it)?

[Winston]

Rock,
Ok I believe you that many guys you know have done well with dating in Taiwan. But that does not prove that my statement that "Taiwanese girls are NOT open with strangers in general" to be wrong or false at all. If I'm wrong, then why does every honest Taiwanese guy admit that I'm right? My dad admits it, the security guards in my neighborhood admit it, other Taiwanese men admit it, etc. because it's SUPER OBVIOUS and a no brainer. How do you explain that? You never have. Obviously I am not wrong, or else normal sincere Taiwanese guys would not be admitting that my assessment of their women is correct. Simple logic.

I know for a fact that my statement is true. It's not even in dispute. It's as true as 2+2=4. So why do you debate this with me? Can't we both be right? Or does one of us have to be right and the other wrong?

Why can't the reasonable explanation be that most of these guys you know didn't cold approach Taiwanese women but met them in other ways, which are more conventional?

And don't tell me that you've never tried chatting them up only to have them ignore you totally as if you weren't even there.

Besides, the term "doing well with women" is subjective and relative. You have to define what that means. To me, doing well means having the Taiwanese girls in the photos I posted at the top, be open and engaging with you and going out on a date with you and at least kissing you or holding hands, or having passionate sex with you and embracing you tightly.

You saw what that Chicago guy said above. He said that he heard that Filipinas were "sweeter and warmer". Why would he say that, unless he felt that Taiwanese girls were not "sweet and warm"? Though he didn't say that exactly, you can insinuate that from his words using basic logic. And if he heard that from someone, then it must mean that other people felt the same way.

If hotties like the girls in the photos I posted above, dated me and slept with me anytime I wanted, why would I ever want to go to the Philippines? There would be no need. Who would go from high quality to low quality? No one would! Come on now. Get real. Yet the white expats I mentioned above are doing that for some reason. Use basic logic here.

[Falcon]

And then Turkic peoples can look Caucasian/Iranic in the west, but Mongolic in the east. In countries such as Turkmenistan and Uzbekistan, they look like they're half European and half Asian, so to speak. Turkic peoples were traditionally nomadic, and so absorbed all kinds of different tribes and nations along the way.

I also know some basic Turkish (I used http://www.turkishlanguage.co.uk to learn it). Vowel harmony and agglutination are the most awesome things about the language.

[Falcon]

Why do you know so much, Falcon?

Because of my friends: Google and Wikipedia. But actually, it's just because of my natural curiosity. I love to explore new places, new ideas, new languages, new countries, and so on. Plenty of our fellow HappierAbroad members, like Ladislav and Steve Nesse, are also such types.

Ironically, American girls tend to be far more educated, but get turned off by walking encyclopedias like me. Being full of knowledge, I can easily make friends with lots of American college girls since they get to have interesting conversations with me. But all that knowledge will turn them off romantically, and I end up "friend-zoning" all of them. As Winston has mentioned somewhere else, the U.S. is one of the few countries where intellectuals are looked down upon as undesirable "nerds" (when it comes to dating). The girls I've met in Mexico are far less educated but actually love intellectual guys, who are relatively rare in Mexico. I got flirted with comments such as "oooh, eres muy inteligente!" ("oooh, you're really smart!"), whereas American girls might say, "You're such a cool nerd!"

[Falcon]

Back to the topic ... I think those white expats got treated like rock stars in Taiwan for the first couple of months or years. They think Taiwanese people are extremely friendly, outgoing, funny, and laid-back all the time. Well they are, but that's just one side of the coin. Then reality strikes, and they get to see the other side of the East Asian "double face" as discussed in http://www.happierabroad.com/Asian_Ment ... sOrientals:

Most white people don't see the other side of Asians and Orientals, which is the repressive controlling instinct and mentality that seeks to perpetually condemn, "fix" and correct those who are different from a set standard of Asian culture. The reason is because Asians don't try to change white people, but other Asians who don't fit the mold of how Asians are "supposed" to be. Instead, they view whites as a foreign species to maintain a good "face" to – bowing and smiling gently to feign fake politeness. They are not shown the repressive dominating intricacies of Asian corrective behavior. That's why Asians of the older generation tend to act overly polite, gentle and kind to whites, giving them a false impression, hiding their strict, rigid, repressive, verbally abusive, belittling side, which they prominently show to their own kind and especially to their own family.

Thus, usually only Asians see and know about this condemning negative and strict feature of Asian cultures and sub-cultures, unless they tell their white friends about it.

Uh-oh! That's when trouble strikes. Then they flee to the much more laid-back archipelago just to the south of Taiwan.

[Repatriate]

Winston, my take on your friend Shawn is that he's full of shit. When guys are ultra evasive about their reasoning then yes they are likely lying. No one quits a high flying banking job to sell bubble tea in some shithole stall in the Philippines. You can be the most idealistic hippie ever but even then I don't believe anyone does things like that unless they already have serious money in the bank. Then they wouldn't be changing careers but it would be called retiring. Plus unless you've personally seen him with some of these hot Taiwanese A type model girls he was supposedly dating or seen how he lives materially all the time i'd take everything with a grain of salt.

I've met many expats who talk a good game about their business or whatever but when you take a look behind the curtain they end up being trust fund babies or something. There are lots of seemingly well heeled young guys who fit this profile in Bangkok living the libertine lifestyle off their family's money. I don't find anything wrong with this in itself but when guys b.s. about what successful businessmen or professionals they are then it just makes them look like insecure lying faggots. Anyone who pumps their fake ego up like this is not worth hanging out with.

Rock,
Ok I believe you that many guys you know have done well with dating in Taiwan. But that does not prove that my statement that "Taiwanese girls are NOT open with strangers in general" to be wrong or false at all. If I'm wrong, then why does every honest Taiwanese guy admit that I'm right? My dad admits it, the security guards in my neighborhood admit it, other Taiwanese men admit it, etc. because it's SUPER OBVIOUS and a no brainer. How do you explain that? You never have. Obviously I am not wrong, or else normal sincere Taiwanese guys would not be admitting that my assessment of their women is correct. Simple logic.

You're asking the wrong people that's why. Your dad probably hasn't dated TW girls since dating your mom. Security guards tend to be really low class individuals with equally low prospects for dating unless you're talking about the best off hour drinking holes for p4p or something. I'm guessing the "other" TW men were your relatives who by your own description are introverted workaholics. They probably wouldn't know the first thing about women in general much less TW women.

If hotties like the girls in the photos I posted above, dated me and slept with me anytime I wanted, why would I ever want to go to the Philippines? There would be no need. Who would go from high quality to low quality? No one would! Come on now. Get real. Yet the white expats I mentioned above are doing that for some reason. Use basic logic here.

Because your "friend" Shawn is a stupid inconsistent liar. That doesn't mean there aren't people who are highly successful with women in TW. I think success in each country depends on a wide range of how well your personality meshes with the culture, social scene, and desired physical criteria. It may be that some guys have a personality that integrates well with the women in that culture and social scene. I believe my cousin is like this. He's an ABC as well but he's very hip to the TW music scene and is just well oiled when it comes to TW social etiquette. He networked with a tiny TW international student community when he was going to university and managed to meet a shitload of people when he would visit Taiwan. That's how he eventually met his wife. TW women always liked him a lot because he's a trendy guy who has a good personality and professional background. Like I said many times before he dresses well, is well spoken, and can back it up. I'd say looks wise he's average.

Honestly, I think men just like the Philippines (and Thailand) because there are always easily accessible second and third options. Maybe a lot of is really just laziness and a lack of genuine social skills. I think this also explains why so many western expats end up marrying bar girls and the like too. It's just easy to immerse yourself totally into the p4p lifestyle because you don't have to work anymore. Then that illusion becomes a proxy for real relationships.

[Seeker]

Because Taiwan doesn't have a large population of low life trash like the Philippines does who are ready to let themselves get f***ed by a fat middle aged white man to rescue them from poverty. That's IT that's ALL. That's the ONLY reason unattractive men can get a certain (lower) class of woman there while being unable to get women elsewhere.

I've seen groups of 2 or more girls in Taipei, and when you approach them, they either ignore you completely, or they quickly answer your question and then turn their back to you. What does that have to do with guts in approaching? Nothing obviously.

Why are you bothering attractive young women when they obviously don't want anything to do with you? You must seem like a pervy uncle to them. When are you going to learn your real level?

[Rock]

Rock,
Ok I believe you that many guys you know have done well with dating in Taiwan. But that does not prove that my statement that "Taiwanese girls are NOT open with strangers in general" to be wrong or false at all. If I'm wrong, then why does every honest Taiwanese guy admit that I'm right? My dad admits it, the security guards in my neighborhood admit it, other Taiwanese men admit it, etc. because it's SUPER OBVIOUS and a no brainer. How do you explain that? You never have. Obviously I am not wrong, or else normal sincere Taiwanese guys would not be admitting that my assessment of their women is correct. Simple logic.

I know for a fact that my statement is true. It's not even in dispute. It's as true as 2+2=4. So why do you debate this with me? Can't we both be right? Or does one of us have to be right and the other wrong?

Why can't the reasonable explanation be that most of these guys you know didn't cold approach Taiwanese women but met them in other ways, which are more conventional?

And don't tell me that you've never tried chatting them up only to have them ignore you totally as if you weren't even there.

Besides, the term "doing well with women" is subjective and relative. You have to define what that means. To me, doing well means having the Taiwanese girls in the photos I posted at the top, be open and engaging with you and going out on a date with you and at least kissing you or holding hands, or having passionate sex with you and embracing you tightly.

You saw what that Chicago guy said above. He said that he heard that Filipinas were "sweeter and warmer". Why would he say that, unless he felt that Taiwanese girls were not "sweet and warm"? Though he didn't say that exactly, you can insinuate that from his words using basic logic. And if he heard that from someone, then it must mean that other people felt the same way.

If hotties like the girls in the photos I posted above, dated me and slept with me anytime I wanted, why would I ever want to go to the Philippines? There would be no need. Who would go from high quality to low quality? No one would! Come on now. Get real. Yet the white expats I mentioned above are doing that for some reason. Use basic logic here.

1. Perhaps a lot of Taiwan girls are not open to strangers. But, a large percentage of the girls I dated seriously here were initiated as cold approaches. In fact I made it a strict rule never to date girls in the firms I worked in unless they were short term temps who had already left and never got piped into any of the company grapevines. As I've said before, my focus is not on approachability but rather score-ability. With some strategic efforts and time invested towards girls I find attractive, will dating, romance, and intimacy follow? If so, with what percentage of them? That's what I care about. And that's where Taiwan has served many I know of including myself well. It takes some balls to approach these girls and certain skills and/or inherent conditions to break through barrier you obsess about. But its doable with a fair percentage for many guys. If it wasn't, I wouldn't have done it for so long. Did I have to deal with rejection and flakiness? Yes, and it sucked. But, my overall batting average was high enough to make it worthwhile.

2. Consider the quality issue. What kind of girls can western guys pull in Taiwan? Generally, I would say girls who are physically out of their league in most countries if that's what they want. A very average looking mid-30s English teacher dude can probably date cute college girls with some effort. A regular looking late 20s early 30s guy who knows how to dress right will have a fantastic selection from the 18-22 year old set including some 8s or even better. And a mid-20s decent looking student like my former French tenant will likely get approached by young and not so young girls in school and/or nightclubs. If he was at all proactive and focused, I don't doubt he could get some success at the top levels.

Last night, I went out to Vieshow Cinemas to catch an evening flick. In total, I saw 4 western guys. 2 of them were together with each other. But the other 2 had local dates. One was with a knock-out - 5'9", very young and classy, dressed fashionably, excellent face and body - she looked like the type you might see with a young local celebrity. I'm sure she would score at least an 8 in most local's books. Her date was an African dude of regular height, OK looking and well dressed but nothing that special. Hard to tell his age but he might have been well into 30s. The other guy was a decent looking white guy who was probably early 30s. His date was also very young and had a super cute face with big eyes. And she was reasonably tall. Somehow, someway, certain guys are meeting and dating these impossible to approach Taiwanese.

3. Need I remind you of our trip to Taichung last year. In the scope of 48 hours, we met well over a dozen Taiwan female strangers and had a good time on dates with a couple of them. The biggest rejection we suffered was from a 30 something Filipina factory worker too, lol. So what's the "SUPER OBVIOUS and a no brainer"? You live in the frickin sticks man and are surrounded by hicks. You've said yourself that your family is populated by boring squares. Why do you use that sub-set to represent all of Taiwan?

4. Why would a western guy in Taiwan choose to relocate to PI if the above 3 points are true? Could it be he's too lazy to put in the work required of many quality Taiwan girls when he can get a certain class of Filipinas who just throw themselves at him? Could it be cus he's getting too old for Taiwan and his handicap is disappearing? Could it be the Taiwan environment depresses the hell out of him after awhile and he craves the easygoing, warmer, and more English friendly environment of the PI? Could it be he wants a less intelligent and perhaps easier to control girl?

5. Following from my last point, you would be surprised at the women some very successful guys choose. One of top local guys at my last company, a guy with a masters degree from the States who earned well over 500K US$ per year, married a simple Taiwanese girl who would just do what he told her to do and never speak up in front of others. Another guy I knew, a mid-30s Jewish stationary entrepreneur from Canada worth US$ 10s of millions, chose a low class, unemployed, sloppy and plain looking Taiwan girl with a serious drinking problem to be his LT partner.

6. Girls like the ones in your photos are generally not point and click for most westerners. But some of them are attainable with effort. And I believe both girls I saw at the cinema yesterday with western dates are more attractive than any of the ones I saw in your photo.

7. The more you try to apply your logic to women and dating, the more confused you're probably gonna be.

[odbo]

Why are you bothering attractive young women when they obviously don't want anything to do with you? You must seem like a pervy uncle to them. When are you going to learn your real level?

Hello. I'm a fat, hideously repulsive and nearly broke, lonely American man in his 40s.. and I'd like an 18 year old virgin of your highest quality. I can give you some links showing nice things people have said about me.

viewtopic.php?p=62652#62652

[Winston]

Shawn told me that in Taiwan, girls under 28 are usually total divas, so he avoids them. Is that true? lol

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=diva

diva

a bitchy woman that must have her way exactly, or no way at all. often rude and belittles people, believes that everyone is beneath her and thinks that she is so much more loved than what she really is. selfish, spoiled, and overly dramatic.

[Winston]

Because Taiwan doesn't have a large population of low life trash like the Philippines does who are ready to let themselves get f***ed by a fat middle aged white man to rescue them from poverty. That's IT that's ALL. That's the ONLY reason unattractive men can get a certain (lower) class of woman there while being unable to get women elsewhere.

I've seen groups of 2 or more girls in Taipei, and when you approach them, they either ignore you completely, or they quickly answer your question and then turn their back to you. What does that have to do with guts in approaching? Nothing obviously.

Why are you bothering attractive young women when they obviously don't want anything to do with you? You must seem like a pervy uncle to them. When are you going to learn your real level?

Up yours asshole. You are just taking cheap shots at me. FYI, when I was 17-18 and worked in Taiwan and stayed there for a year, the girls would not talk to me either and ignored me if I said anything to them. My looks isn't the problem you idiot. The problem is that Taiwan girls don't like talking to strangers. I've said that a billion times already, and everyone agrees. It's a unanimous observation so you might as well take it as fact. I don't know even one sincere down to earth honest person who claims "Taiwanese girls are very open with strangers and very approachable." So I am right. No one disagrees. I never said that no one could get girls in Taiwan. People do. I'm just saying they are cold and ignore strangers and nowadays guys complain that they are flaky divas that you can't rely on who disappear at any moment, almost as flaky as American girls are.

[Winston]

Repatriate,
You are being a snob again with cognitive dissonance. Just because everyone agrees with me doesn't mean that they must be narrow or clueless about Taiwan girls. So are you saying that everyone who is cool and hip thinks Taiwanese girls are open and approachable to strangers? lol

Get real. I'm not talking about stupid people here. EVERY honest sincere no-nonsense person Taiwanese person agrees that Taiwanese girls are not very open with strangers. No honest person denies it. Not even Rock or Momopi. Rock just admitted it in his last post here.

I never said that no one could get Taiwanese girls. Maybe your ABC friends join cliques or schools or organizations and activities, etc. But so what? That's how people meet in closed cliquish countries everywhere, even in America.

But I am not wrong. In order for me to be wrong, you have to prove that Taiwanese girls are open and approachable with strangers. They are not. No one thinks so. It's a unanimous observation. You cannot debate the whole world Repatriate.

So what are we debating here? I am not wrong. Everyone I've asked agreed with me.

My highly insightful friend who is a former mental health counselor even saw the obvious, remember?

Winston,

If my memory serves, I was in Taiwan in 2007. Sometimes on my mongering trips I will take a few days and spend in one of my "link" cities, just to see it and get a feel. I had no contacts in Taipei and was with a mongering friend. Note that our goal was not to monger there (as we had already read the scene was abysmal) but just to have a look-see. On that particular trip, I was not overly skinny--that was a trip I caught Pneumonia on upon returning to the United States, as I recall--partly b/c of being out-of-shape.

I was only in Taiwan a few days and in many ways it was similar to my trip to China, which was a much longer excursion--that is to say, I got the same "distant" vibe there--perhaps even worse--than I got in China. I took no tours or did anything except wander around just to pick up vibes and get a feel for the place and other than it seeming a bit more "open" and less contrived than the China that was presented to me (I went there on a package tour with a group of friends--never again), I got absolutely NO play from any woman, no indications of interest and not much overt sign of any sexual vibe or activity in the air at all--the people seemed all business. Amazing that I hopped on a plane to Bangkok and in four hours' travel time the atmosphere could change so radically.

And, yes, I did notice the lack of eye contact and an experience I have had in many European countries, esp. in Northern Europe/Scandinavia, of complete and utter disinterest.

Stop denying that 2+2=4. I'm right and there is no doubt about it. Again, I never said that people couldn't get dates in Taiwan. People do. But Taiwan girls are not open to strangers. That's a unanimous agreed upon fact.

Shawn didn't say that he dated models. He said that he dated high quality women in Taiwan who called him every weekend and offered to come over to his place.

Actions speak louder than words. If Taiwan were a real dating paradise, then Rock would not go to Bangkok. He'd stay in Taipei and go out with Taiwanese models and have a wild sex party with them in his hotel room. But reality isn't like that. If it were, Rock could just step outside his Taipei apartment anytime and pick up hot Taiwan girls, like the characters do in Seinfeld. He could have models on his arms like Bruce Wayne did in Dark Knight. lol Basic logic dude.

Rock, again, have you ever said something to a Taiwanese female stranger in public, only to have her walk by like you didn't exist? Or do 100 percent of them stop and acknowledge you?

[Rock]

Repatriate,
You are being a snob again with cognitive dissonance. Just because everyone agrees with me doesn't mean that they must be narrow or clueless about Taiwan girls. So are you saying that everyone who is cool and hip thinks Taiwanese girls are open and approachable to strangers? lol

Get real. I'm not talking about stupid people here. EVERY honest sincere no-nonsense person Taiwanese person agrees that Taiwanese girls are not very open with strangers. No honest person denies it. Not even Rock or Momopi. Rock just admitted it in his last post here.

I never said that no one could get Taiwanese girls. Maybe your ABC friends join cliques or schools or organizations and activities, etc. But so what? That's how people meet in closed cliquish countries everywhere, even in America.

But I am not wrong. In order for me to be wrong, you have to prove that Taiwanese girls are open and approachable with strangers. They are not. No one thinks so. It's a unanimous observation. You cannot debate the whole world Repatriate.

So what are we debating here? I am not wrong. Everyone I've asked agreed with me.

My highly insightful friend who is a former mental health counselor even saw the obvious, remember?

Winston,

If my memory serves, I was in Taiwan in 2007. Sometimes on my mongering trips I will take a few days and spend in one of my "link" cities, just to see it and get a feel. I had no contacts in Taipei and was with a mongering friend. Note that our goal was not to monger there (as we had already read the scene was abysmal) but just to have a look-see. On that particular trip, I was not overly skinny--that was a trip I caught Pneumonia on upon returning to the United States, as I recall--partly b/c of being out-of-shape.

I was only in Taiwan a few days and in many ways it was similar to my trip to China, which was a much longer excursion--that is to say, I got the same "distant" vibe there--perhaps even worse--than I got in China. I took no tours or did anything except wander around just to pick up vibes and get a feel for the place and other than it seeming a bit more "open" and less contrived than the China that was presented to me (I went there on a package tour with a group of friends--never again), I got absolutely NO play from any woman, no indications of interest and not much overt sign of any sexual vibe or activity in the air at all--the people seemed all business. Amazing that I hopped on a plane to Bangkok and in four hours' travel time the atmosphere could change so radically.

And, yes, I did notice the lack of eye contact and an experience I have had in many European countries, esp. in Northern Europe/Scandinavia, of complete and utter disinterest.

Stop denying that 2+2=4. I'm right and there is no doubt about it. Again, I never said that people couldn't get dates in Taiwan. People do. But Taiwan girls are not open to strangers. That's a unanimous agreed upon fact.

Shawn didn't say that he dated models. He said that he dated high quality women in Taiwan who called him every weekend and offered to come over to his place.

Actions speak louder than words. If Taiwan were a real dating paradise, then Rock would not go to Bangkok. He'd stay in Taipei and go out with Taiwanese models and have a wild sex party with them in his hotel room. But reality isn't like that. If it were, Rock could just step outside his Taipei apartment anytime and pick up hot Taiwan girls, like the characters do in Seinfeld. He could have models on his arms like Bruce Wayne did in Dark Knight. lol Basic logic dude.

Rock, again, have you ever said something to a Taiwanese female stranger in public, only to have her walk by like you didn't exist? Or do 100 percent of them stop and acknowledge you?

Yes, actions speak louder than words. So why do I chose to live in Taipei over Bangkok even though I have a condo in central Bangkok and could move there any time I like? For ever day I've spent in Bangkok, I've spent weeks in Taipei, year after year. I could make a similar argument about any other country vs. Taiwan. Generally, I spend over 6 months per year in Taiwan.

Your logic sucks. I have yet to find a country on the face of this planet where I can have wild sex parties with models unless I wanna go the P4P route. Taiwan has been a relative dating paradise for me cus I've done a lot better there than any other country. Part of that success is due to the time investment and commitment I've made, a kind of quasi home-court advantage. But I don't think I could have matched it in most other countries no matter how hard I tried.

Meeting girls is about percentages and batting averages. Take the richest and best looking guy and put him in the easiest country on the planet to meet girls for his race. Even such a guy will not get 100% acknowledgment from chicks if he goes to bat just a few dozen times. Rejection is part of the game, even for the best players. The focus should be on whether or not you can achieve a high enough hit rate to make the effort and pain of rejection worthwhile.

Don't 鑽牛角尖! What's more important to a guy who wants intimacy and sex, initial approachability or score-ability. Taipei will definitely rate quite high on the second count for a lot of western guys. Why the obsession over a red herring issue?

[Winston]

Repatriate,
I could use your logic and apply it to America too, and say: "Only nerds and losers think AW are unapproachable. Cool hip people have no trouble meeting and dating AW." But so what? It doesn't change the fact that they aren't that approachable, as we all agree here. You are arguing with no substance. The fact is, the guys here do not like the superficialities required to break into cliques. That's why we go abroad.

We all know that to have a social life in the US, you have to break into closed social cliques. It's the same in Taiwan. That dynamic in TW is the same as in the US. But the bottom line is that women aren't very approachable in either country. That's the basic fact. I never said that no one can get dates in TW. Neither have I ever said that no one can get dates in the US. So what are we arguing about? Are you being subjective in defending your ethnic TW national pride? I sense you have a bias here and are not totally neutral on this issue.