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German student I met feels alienated in Taiwan

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German student I met feels alienated in Taiwan

Postby Winston » April 10th, 2012, 8:17 pm

Hi all,
I just met a German guy in Taichung, Taiwan. He is fairly good looking and young, only 25. Yet he finds Taiwan to be very repressed and says that I am spot on about the emptiness and "living in fear" mentality of the people here. So the fact that even he notices these things speaks volumes about what I said about it. He also finds the fakeness that people treat him with to be alienating. I asked him if the attention he gets for being white here opens up doors to developing friendships/relationships with girls, and he said "not really".

Amazingly, he found and read my Taiwan observations article (http://www.happierabroad.com/Observations_Taiwan.htm) through a Google search just before we met. He showed my article to our mutual friend (a girl from Couchsurfing.org) and when she saw it, she said, "Oh, I know the guy who wrote that. He's coming here tonight in fact. You can meet him when he arrives." What an amazing synchronistic coincidence! Wow. What are the odds of someone finding my article online and then meeting me that same day? Must be incredible.

When we met, he told me that my article was the most truthful piece he ever read about Taiwan, and that all the other travel blogs/sites he saw about Taiwan only spewed propaganda. We talked for hours. He was very down to earth and intellectual/philosophical. He told me that girls in Germany are easy to approach and are not afraid to talk to strangers, and that as long as you respect them and want to get to know them as a person, they will be friendly and reciprocate them. He said that they are not paranoid or afraid of strangers. And he said that they are much more relaxed and open than girls in Taiwan, who in comparison are far more repressed.

This is quite surprising given that there is a stereotype going around that all white guys are "rock stars" in Taiwan. Interesting.

We also went to a nice Couchsurfing picnic over the weekend and met some nice girls. I'll show you all some pics sometime.
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Postby ssjparris » April 11th, 2012, 9:09 am

German women from my experience are definitely wonderful easy going and very friendly. As for Taiwan I am black and have met a flirtatious lady from there.
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Postby Repatriate » April 11th, 2012, 9:50 am

I don't see how this is inconsistent with what some knowledgeable people have been saying Winston. Didn't Rock even say that some guys have personality issues or some other factor which makes them unappealing to a lot of women in certain countries?
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Postby Billy » April 11th, 2012, 10:03 am

yes, best evidences still are the anecdotal ones ;-). philosphical guys are not the winner guys in society. that is what i´ve been said at least ;)
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Postby Winston » April 11th, 2012, 4:45 pm

Repatriate wrote:I don't see how this is inconsistent with what some knowledgeable people have been saying Winston. Didn't Rock even say that some guys have personality issues or some other factor which makes them unappealing to a lot of women in certain countries?


Yeah but this guy is sincere and honest and down to earth. He doesn't have any personality issues. But our observation is true though, that Taiwanese are repressed and live in fear. Everyone knows that. Why do you deny it? Out of nationalistic pride? Why don't you be honest about it? My German friend is way more honest and reasonable about it than you are.

The fact is, Taiwanese are not as open and relaxed as Germans are. He made this observation and it is probably true. Also, some Taiwanese girls won't date white guys because they know that their parents won't allow it. You are operating from a typical American victim blaming mentality. That is odd for someone who is supposed to be a freethinker. As we know, just because women are too picky, doesn't mean there is something wrong with the guy or that he is faulty in some way.

As long as a guy is honest, sincere and decent, then anyone who dislikes him is THE ONE who has the problem. That should be obvious to you.

Also, lots of girls are nice, but romantic attraction is something else.
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Postby lavezzi » April 11th, 2012, 4:56 pm

Some guys who go to a foreign country experience a kind of care-freeness that they did not have in their home country which allows them to talk to people at random without feeling any neurosis whatsoever. But some guys don't experience this. This German guy probably didn't and is behaving in Taiwan just as he behaved in his home country, which for many guys means being largely unsuccessful with women.
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Postby Winston » April 11th, 2012, 5:13 pm

lavezzi wrote:Some guys who go to a foreign country experience a kind of care-freeness that they did not have in their home country which allows them to talk to people at random without feeling any neurosis whatsoever. But some guys don't experience this. This German guy probably didn't and is behaving in Taiwan just as he behaved in his home country, which for many guys means being largely unsuccessful with women.


But you forget, he says that Germans are not as repressed and are far easier to start up a conversation with. It depends on the environment, not on you (at least in my case). I don't know anyone who thinks that Taiwan is open and carefree. The environment here is NOT open and carefree at all. People do live in fear here. That's for sure. And they are repressed, until they get to middle age that is. In NE Asian cultures, people are taught not to have a personality or individuality until they are at least middle age, it seems. If you come here, you will see what he and I are talking about. Sadly, very few people tell it like it is. Almost every travel site is infested with politically correct touristy propaganda.
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Postby lavezzi » April 11th, 2012, 5:29 pm

Winston wrote:But you forget, he says that Germans are not as repressed and are far easier to start up a conversation with. It depends on the environment, not on you (at least in my case). I don't know anyone who thinks that Taiwan is open and carefree. The environment here is NOT open and carefree at all. People do live in fear here. That's for sure. And they are repressed, until they get to middle age that is. In NE Asian cultures, people are taught not to have a personality or individuality until they are at least middle age, it seems. If you come here, you will see what he and I are talking about. Sadly, very few people tell it like it is. Almost every travel site is infested with politically correct touristy propaganda.


But then why do so many guys brag about having so much success with women there? I reckon it's because like I said, many guys feel confident in foreign environments especially in reserved places like Taiwan. Like for me when I was in New York (which i think we can both agree is one of the most reserved places in the world) I felt secure and carefree like I could talk to anyone without fear. However, women there were extremely picky about looks/clothes, so I had little success.
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Postby lavezzi » April 11th, 2012, 6:01 pm

Winston wrote:Sadly, very few people tell it like it is. Almost every travel site is infested with touristy propaganda.


Speaking of politically correct touristy propaganda, look at what someone wrote about New York today on this PC-extreme Irish forum I know:


"Yeah I was in NY last month and one thing that really stood out to me was how confident the women are.. The men are too I guess, but a lot of the women I met had very big personalities..

Another thing we noticed was how available they make themselves to the tourists.. a few times we would be standing in the middle of a street with a map and people will just walk up to you asking if they can help you out.. people from all walks of life from businessmen to the street cleaners..

So so different over there."



WTF?? That couldn't possibly be further from the truth. What reason would anyone have to lie and say that it's like that there? Do the New York tourist board hire people to go around on random forums spreading lies in order to attract more tourists?
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Postby zboy1 » April 11th, 2012, 8:30 pm

lavezzi wrote:
Winston wrote:Sadly, very few people tell it like it is. Almost every travel site is infested with touristy propaganda.


Speaking of politically correct touristy propaganda, look at what someone wrote about New York today on this PC-extreme Irish forum I know:


"Yeah I was in NY last month and one thing that really stood out to me was how confident the women are.. The men are too I guess, but a lot of the women I met had very big personalities..

Another thing we noticed was how available they make themselves to the tourists.. a few times we would be standing in the middle of a street with a map and people will just walk up to you asking if they can help you out.. people from all walks of life from businessmen to the street cleaners..

So so different over there."



WTF?? That couldn't possibly be further from the truth. What reason would anyone have to lie and say that it's like that there? Do the New York tourist board hire people to go around on random forums spreading lies in order to attract more tourists?


Haha Lavezzi, I live in New York so I know that comment about New Yorkers being friendly and helpful is the biggest bunch of bulls**t I've ever heard. And yes, women are very confident but the MEN ARE NOT--thanks to feminism! That's why dating is an absolute nightmare in the "Big City." And most people living in New York City try to present themselves in such a fake and condescending manner--which might impress some non-native New Yorkers, but I--as I long time New Yorker--can see through the facade.

As to why some New Yorkers were helpful to the Irish tourist--there was probably an element of racism involved there since I never seen New Yorkers being particularly kind to Asian foreign tourists! But white tourist from Europe or Australia might get some better treatment due to their "exotic background."
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Postby Rock » April 12th, 2012, 8:46 pm

Well I gotta a lot and will have a lot to say on this. Lots of new data points coming in from my trips to Thai and now Philippines. I"m with Dragonboy who has a long history in Taiwan and I just had a new tenent (met on this forum) move into to my Taipei apartment (have not met him in person yet but will next week when I go back).

For now, I will just say, there's a lot that factors into a guy's experience in Taiwan or any other country. For example, I had following text exchange w/Winston today regarding the German guy and also my new tenant:

Rock: Check this out, I sent a text MSG to my tenent asking him how he's doing and these r the 3 msgs he sent bak - pasted in following 3 texts

1. Very good. On a date at the moment. :-)

2. The date is now over. Are you on Skype at the moment?

3. Yesterday was terrific. I actually had a girl hitting on me at the club.

Winton: Why don’t u go w him and observe? Or let me go w him? Tw girls don’t approach guys. Not even my german frnd who is handsome.

Rock: Sure will observe some when I get bak Taipei next week. My French tenant got approached in certain clubs and by some classmates in school. We will try to visit u in Taichung and yr welcome to come c him in Taipei.

Rock: Yr German fren sounds a lot like my Norwegian fren.

Winston: Like I predicted, all ur tenants r successful. Tw grls don’t approach guys. Even the Chicago guy doesn’t get approached. I jut went to the moon. I’m not lying. U believe me right?lol Last few days I passed tons of sexy tw girls w hot white legs. But they wouldn’t stop to talk. What can I do?

Winston: What is ur Norwegian frnd like? He doesn’t like repressed grls and vibes either? Pls don’t tell me that u don’t notice the repression. Its too obvious.

Rock: I just ran into him for first time in 3 years in Thailand by coincidence. A few years ago, I hung out w him in Chongqing and Chungdu. He’s 6’3â€￾, good looking, and was 26 at the time. But he only hooked up w 2 Chinese girls in 2 months. My fren XXX who’s jus 5’7â€￾, 30s, and average looking American Jew was w us and did much better. But he speaks Chinese and is proactive. My Norwegian fren is quiet and comes off as a bit stuck up and snobby.

Rock: BTW, the Jewish guy lived in Taiwan a long time and did well (was w dozens of girls over the years including a few hot ones (he’s not picky, jus wants fun).

Rock: I’m jus repeating what my last 2 tenants told me. I didn’t c cus didn’t go out w them. But I saw my French tenant bring home many girls and so did my ex.

Rock: Why don’t u jus come to Taipei and hang out w my tenant a few days
And observe first hand? I will spend some time w him when I get back.
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Postby Rock » April 12th, 2012, 9:08 pm

Assuming that many Taiwan girls are somehow repressed, did it ever occur to you that this might be part of the reason that some of them open up so easily to foreigners - as a type of escape?

Also, its not wise to generalize about what Taiwan girls will and will not do. There are many types and varieties of girls there. I still remember one of the foreigners in a competing firm of mine gettng appraoched in a Taipe club by a local girl. He one-night standed her but she stalked for several weeks and even called his office and tried to talk with random people at his workplace. This guy was very average looking but freakisly tall (something like 6'8").

A lot of my other foreign friends have been approached at times by Taiwan girls. Some girls, esp. in clubs, will do that or at least use body language to make it known she's open to him and/or his friends. My French tenant claims that his group got appraoched almost everytime they hit the Viewshow area clubs.

Just on this forum, Gits, Dragonboy, and even myself come to mind as having been approached by Taiwan girls before. Add to that my new tenant (according to his text today) who BTW is 30s, quite short, and of Indian ancestry.
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Postby Repatriate » April 14th, 2012, 3:58 am

Winston is doing his usual all or nothing generalizations and we've already analyzed this topic extensively. I think Winston gets annoyed by this and tries to find odd man out type individuals that validate his confirmation bias.

I believe some people have varied success in different countries but it depends on the individual still. Taiwan is no different. I do think overall TW women are intrigued by foreigners in general though. TW is a small country with a low population anyone outside of that world is unique and different. You don't have to be from a western country but people from a developed asian country probably get similar benefits. The #1 foreign marriage is still young TW women with Japanese men outweighing all others by a fairly significant margin. Plus ABC's I know there do well so it comes down to beating the same dead horse (who has now been turned into horse burgers.)

Winston doesn't do well in TW for reasons we've already mentioned many times before and it's useless going over it again since he'll get mad.
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Postby Winston » January 3rd, 2013, 9:55 pm

lavezzi wrote:
Winston wrote:Sadly, very few people tell it like it is. Almost every travel site is infested with touristy propaganda.


Speaking of politically correct touristy propaganda, look at what someone wrote about New York today on this PC-extreme Irish forum I know:


"Yeah I was in NY last month and one thing that really stood out to me was how confident the women are.. The men are too I guess, but a lot of the women I met had very big personalities..

Another thing we noticed was how available they make themselves to the tourists.. a few times we would be standing in the middle of a street with a map and people will just walk up to you asking if they can help you out.. people from all walks of life from businessmen to the street cleaners..

So so different over there."



WTF?? That couldn't possibly be further from the truth. What reason would anyone have to lie and say that it's like that there? Do the New York tourist board hire people to go around on random forums spreading lies in order to attract more tourists?


Could it depend on where you are in NYC? Are different parts friendlier than others? What about the Bronx? Or Queens? That's where I lived when I was four years old.
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Postby Winston » January 3rd, 2013, 9:57 pm

This is the German guy I told you about before, who also felt depressed in Taiwan cause people made no eye contact or were open to talking to strangers. He even felt like crying after feeling so helpless about his alienation.

Next to him is the girl who introduced me to him. I met her on HospitalityClub.org long ago.

Image

Image

Me and them.

Image

Image

Image
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