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Why is Taiwan so alienating, lonely, disconnected, negative?

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.

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Postby Winston » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:09 am

Momopi,

When I said that Taiwanese are friendlier overseas, I meant that it is easier to start conversations with them. I didn't say that it was easier to date Taiwanese girls in America. But I didn't really try to date Asian girls in America. So I don't know if I could have or not. I avoided Asians when I was in the US. They reminded me of something I didn't want to be.

By "social skills" I meant social skills in TALKING TO STRANGERS. Any weak fearful shy Taiwanese girl can fit into a school clique of other similar types. That doesn't take social skills. It takes conformity skills. There's a difference there.

Two important points to make to you:

First, when we were at the night market in Taipei, you felt the cold vibes too, so you were afraid to approach as well. When I dared you, you came up with a bunch of excuses. First you said that you weren't dressed right with your plain t-shirt. Then you said there weren't enough girls around to approach, even though I pointed out many of them to you. Then you said that you preferred to strike up a conversation with girls only if you were standing in line with them. You had three excuses in a row for why you couldn't approach girls cold there. Finally, you worked up the courage to chat up a girl that worked in a carnival game booth there. The conversation was polite but cold, and you didn't ask for a phone number, because as you said, it was NOT appropriate to ask a girl's number in Taiwan that you met only once.

The point is, your ACTIONS there say A LOT MORE than any words you can type on a keyboard about how easy and fun Taiwan is. Remember, actions speak louder than words. And your actions corroborated and confirmed everything I said about Taiwan. So you yourself proved me right that day.

Second, I've been thinking. I don't buy your claim that "Taiwanese girls are hot in private". Maybe some are, or the ones you know are, but not in general, for a number of reasons:

1) People who are cold and reptilian 24/7 aren't suddenly going to be warm and passionate in bed or in a private room. One cannot change 100 percent who they are at the flip of a switch. That's implausible and not how people are.

Are you claiming that Taiwanese are as warm and passionate as Latinas, once they are in a private room? lol. No way. Do you even have anything to compare them to? Have you made love to a warm sensuous passionate Latina, Momopi?

2) Taiwanese couples in public look cold to each other too. They eat in silence with little to talk about. They do not look romantic, passionate, or full of feeling for each other. They don't even look happy. The guy doesn't even grab the girls hand like in the movies.

3) If you shake hands with Taiwanese people, you can sense their coldness filled with fear and insecurity. Body language says a lot, and so do handshakes. A handshake, though trivial, reveals your inner state of mind. Taiwanese hands are like cold fish, especially those of females. What does that tell you? But of course, women tend to give weak uptight handshakes for some reason.

4) Some guys say that Taiwanese girls suck in bed.

5) The prostitutes I've had in Taiwan were pretty cold, like cold fish. There was no warmth or passion in them at all. The bar girls I slept with in the Philippines had a lot more passion, intensity and gripped me tight. The sex was a lot more human-like in the Philippines. I know these are whores, but women reflect the culture, as you know, and these are women. Not all whores are cold. The ones in the Philippines are a lot more warm and human than in Taiwan. Why is that? Why the difference? Why aren't they the same everywhere?

The whores in Taiwan must come from poor families too right? If so, then why aren't the "poor girls" in Taiwan as warm and passionate as in the Philippines? Can you explain that?

Isn't this a cultural thing then? If coldness is a cultural thing, then how can you claim that the coldness reverses itself 100 percent once they are in a private room?

Have you only made love to East Asian girls? Do you have anything to compare them to?
Last edited by Winston on Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Winston » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:43 am

Momopi,
Three surprises for you. lol

On my Facebook wall and group, several people corroborated what I said about Taiwan, including Gits Ferrari, author of "Not Sars Just Sex", who is a member of our forum.

Here is one of them:

http://www.facebook.com/groups/86597977 ... 865417758/

Garry Krimotat: I'm not sure this is the direct answer you seek but here goes. My experience was largely the same as yours so I can relate to your frustration - spent two weeks in Taiwan in early June - the girls in Taiwan are beautiful and educated but there is a distance that I can feel. Not sure if finding the reason or reasons 'Why' (they are so cold and distant) will help you change them or develop a strategy to crack their shell - could be a waste of time. You did in passing note what worked for you and that is 'being introduced' - if you can't change the system at least you can 'play' the system - I found things went much much much better for me when I was 'introduced' as well - start a thread on 'How to be introduced' and I think it would be smoother sailing from there.


Gits Ferrari admitted that even as a white guy in Taipei, he gets no eye contact from strangers:

http://www.facebook.com/winston.wu.37/p ... 0958634408

David Stig Hansen: I liked the last guys answer, on the forum, regarding, it's considered impolite to look at someone. You talk about the white guy double standard, since you're asian but even I rarely get direct eye contact in this town. It's just part of the culture.


Also, remember that Siberian girl that invited me to the nightclub in Chiayi? The one in the photos here: http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... hp?t=14359

Well she didn't like Taiwan either. When she went back to Siberia, I asked her if she missed Taiwan. Her response was:

Hello Winston! How are you doing? I dont miss taiwan. I really do not miss it, maybe just tea ))))
i am happy here. everything is real here, people, emotions, etc.
that girl she is a friend of mine on Facebook. I can ask her. when are you leaving taiwan? I wish I could travel around.
what do you think about dec 21?
take care, hope you answer me soon xxx


As you can see, she is effectively saying that people are "real" in Siberia with "real" emotions, whereas they are NOT in Taiwan.

Why would she say that if Taiwan was so warm and friendly and had a great social scene, as devil's advocates like you and Celery are trying to insinuate?

Also, she said that when she fell off her bike in Taiwan, no one stopped to help her, whereas in Siberia, people would have stopped to help her and see if she was ok. How do you explain that?

So you see, there is A LOT OF TRUTH in what I'm saying. I'm RIGHT after all, and you know it, and I know it.

Momopi, here's a key question for you: I am outgoing with strangers. Taiwanese girls are NOT. So how am I the problem? Can you explain?

You do understand that cliques are exclusive right? Do you always believe that the majority is right?
Last edited by Winston on Mon Jan 14, 2013 6:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby momopi » Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:48 am

Winston wrote:By "social skills" I meant social skills in TALKING TO STRANGERS. Any weak fearful shy Taiwanese girl can fit into a school clique of other similar types. That doesn't take social skills. It takes conformity skills. There's a difference there.


So, your definition of "social skills" is limited to "talking to strangers" ?



Winston wrote:First, when we were at the night market in Taipei, you felt the cold vibes too, so you were afraid to approach as well. When I dared you, you came up with a bunch of excuses. First you said that you weren't dressed right with your plain t-shirt. Then you said there weren't enough girls around to approach, even though I pointed out many of them to you. Then you said that you preferred to strike up a conversation with girls only if you were standing in line with them. You had three excuses in a row for why you couldn't approach girls cold there. Finally, you worked up the courage to chat up a girl that worked in a carnival game booth there. The conversation was polite but cold, and you didn't ask for a phone number, because as you said, it was NOT appropriate to ask a girl's number in Taiwan that you met only once.


...how many times have I stated that, "I suck at cold approaches" ?



Winston wrote:Second, I've been thinking. I don't buy your claim that "Taiwanese girls are hot in private". Maybe some are, or the ones you know are, but not in general, for a number of reasons:


...it's your loss. Actually, what's even a bigger loss is the 5 years (2008-2012) that you've spent b*tching about how incompatible you are with Taiwanese people and how much TW sucks for you. You're not getting any younger buddy, you're a middle-aged man now. I see that you've recycled another rant about TW on Jan 2nd 2013 (http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... 399#113399). You've already spent 5 years doing this in TW. Do you want to make it 6?
Last edited by momopi on Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Winston » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:00 am

momopi wrote:
Winston wrote:By "social skills" I meant social skills in TALKING TO STRANGERS. Any weak fearful shy Taiwanese girl can fit into a school clique of other similar types. That doesn't take social skills. It takes conformity skills. There's a difference there.


So, your definition of "social skills" is limited to "talking to strangers" ?

Winston wrote:First, when we were at the night market in Taipei, you felt the cold vibes too, so you were afraid to approach as well. When I dared you, you came up with a bunch of excuses. First you said that you weren't dressed right with your plain t-shirt. Then you said there weren't enough girls around to approach, even though I pointed out many of them to you. Then you said that you preferred to strike up a conversation with girls only if you were standing in line with them. You had three excuses in a row for why you couldn't approach girls cold there. Finally, you worked up the courage to chat up a girl that worked in a carnival game booth there. The conversation was polite but cold, and you didn't ask for a phone number, because as you said, it was NOT appropriate to ask a girl's number in Taiwan that you met only once.


...how many times have I stated that, "I suck at cold approaches" ?

Winston wrote:Second, I've been thinking. I don't buy your claim that "Taiwanese girls are hot in private". Maybe some are, or the ones you know are, but not in general, for a number of reasons:


...it's your loss.


No, but it's a part of social skills. Depends on how you define social skills. I'm talking about being brave and outgoing, also articulate with good communication skills. I certainly am articulate, no doubt.

Most Taiwanese girls suck at communication skills. So how can they have good social skills?

How come my parents can't understand Taiwanese girls who work in restaurants? They often mumble and mutter and are hard to understand. Is this a generational thing? Or are Taiwanese girls so insecure that they can't speak clearly? I'm not fluent in Mandarin, but even I can tell that they are muttering and mumbling and not speaking clearly.

If they can't speak clearly, then how can they have good social skills, as you claim Momopi?

If Taiwanese are so educated, how come when they see my articles, they say that they are way too complicated and deep for them?

Rock and I are outgoing with strangers. We also speak clearly and are articulate. You've met us both. You know that.

Anyone can fit in a group of like minded people. I can act polite and friendly in a group too. But if you are on a different wavelength, having good social skills won't make a difference. People will still sense that you are different and ostracize you. Right?

Are you claiming Momopi, that people with good social skills can fit into any group? lol. Even if they are different from the rest of the group?

Sure, maybe it's my loss. Maybe it isn't. Maybe you've never been with a passionate girl, like the kind of passionate lovemaking you see on TV.

But whatever the case, my points are accurate, and the evidence is on my side.

You may suck at cold approach in Taiwan, but try other more open countries, and maybe you will be good at it? Maybe it's not you, and it's Taiwan that sucks for cold approach? Did you consider that?

Do you always think the majority is right? Is the misfit ever right in your book?
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Postby momopi » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:07 am

Winston wrote:Are you claiming Momopi, that people with good social skills can fit into any group? lol. Even if they are different from the rest of the group?


http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... 359#113359



Winston wrote:Sure, maybe it's my loss. Maybe it isn't. Maybe you've never been with a passionate girl, like the kind of passionate lovemaking you see on TV.


momopi wrote:...it's your loss. Actually, what's even a bigger loss is the 5 years (2008-2012) that you've spent b*tching about how incompatible you are with Taiwanese people and how much TW sucks for you. You're not getting any younger buddy, you're a middle-aged man now. I see that you've recycled another rant about TW on Jan 2nd 2013 (http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... 399#113399). You've already spent 5 years doing this in TW. Do you want to make it 6?


So, you want to spend your 6th year in TW writing repetitive rants about how much TW sucks for you?
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Postby Winston » Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:36 am

LOOK!!! Even Outwest corroborated my claim about Taiwan!

http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... 401#113401

PS: As far as that goes, my limited time in Taiwan- only a few days, and most of my contact with Taiwanese leads me to think that most of them are pretty uptight anal retentive types. I would have ZERO interest in living there.
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Postby momopi » Sat Jan 05, 2013 1:38 am

Winston wrote:By "social skills" I meant social skills in TALKING TO STRANGERS. Any weak fearful shy Taiwanese girl can fit into a school clique of other similar types. That doesn't take social skills. It takes conformity skills. There's a difference there.

Winston wrote:No, but it's a part of social skills. Depends on how you define social skills. I'm talking about being brave and outgoing, also articulate with good communication skills. I certainly am articulate, no doubt.
Most Taiwanese girls suck at communication skills. So how can they have good social skills?



Social skill is any skill facilitating interaction and communication with others. Social rules and relations are created, communicated, and changed in verbal and nonverbal ways.

Interpersonal skills are the skills a person uses to communicate and interact with others, such as persuasion, active listening, leadership, etc. toward a desired result.

Conformity is the act of matching attitudes, beliefs, and behaviors to group norms. Norms are implicit, unsaid rules shared by a group of individuals, that guide their interactions with others and among society or social group

Skill is the learned capacity to carry out pre-determined results. People skills is defined as communicating effectively and accurately, building relationships and positive/productive interactions, understanding ourselves and moderating our responses.

Talent is the natural ability, aptitude, or competencies to perform certain tasks at certain levels. Although skill and talent are sometimes used interchangeably, I'd like to draw a distinction between "acquired skills" versus "natural talent".

An articulate speaker uses language clearly and fluently to the audience. An articulate writer conveys ideas and knowledge in a manner that his words are clearly understood by the reader. Furthermore, the articulate writer helps the reader speed through the article, and does not present the reader with information overload.

Thomas Paine wrote this in 1795: ""When a broodmare shall fortunately produce a foal or a mule that, by being worth the sum in question, shall convey to its owner the right of voting, or by its death take it from him, in whom does the origin of such a right exist? Is it in the man, or in the mule? When we consider how many ways property may be acquired without merit, and lost without crime, we ought to spurn the idea of making it a criterion of rights."

Ben Franklin looked at the above and wrote: "Today a man owns a jackass worth fifty dollars and he is entitled to vote; but before the next election the jackass dies. The man in the meantime has become more experienced, his knowledge of the principles of government, and his acquaintance with mankind, are more extensive, and he is therefore better qualified to make a proper selection of rulers – but the jackass is dead and the man cannot vote. Now gentlemen, pray inform me, in whom is the right of suffrage? In the man or in the jackass?"

As a speaker, you speak to the audience and not yourself. As a writer, you write to the reader and not yourself. If your intent is to write an essay to be understood by 80% of the readers, but only 8% understood (or cared to read in detail) what you've wrote, then you've failed.



Winston wrote:How come my parents can't understand Taiwanese girls who work in restaurants? They often mumble and mutter and are hard to understand. Is this a generational thing? Or are Taiwanese girls so insecure that they can't speak clearly? I'm not fluent in Mandarin, but even I can tell that they are muttering and mumbling and not speaking clearly.


The customer service employee in question is not properly trained (or selected). Commenting specifically on hiring young female CSR, they are not expected to subordinate themselves to male colleagues, but they do need to be taught to have a subservient attitude toward honorable customers (you are not better or more important than the customer). By honorable customers, I mean customers who are there to buy stuff and not perverted middle-aged goldfish uncles trying to hit on girls half his age. CSR girls are the focal points of customer interaction and they must offer "decorative hospitality" with a smile.

By "decorative hospitality", I mean she needs to have an appealing appearance and voice. Just as a man's face is his resume, a women's price tag his her youth and beauty. In her role as customer service, she should be properly attired, not wear too much makeup or jewelry, her hair shouldn't be too long, her shoes should have heels less than 2 inches, and her stockings in conservative solid colors. Her voice should be femmine and loud enough to be heard without being loud. In situations where she is facing a crowd, she should be given microphones instead of elevating her voice. Even in emergency situations, she should continue to speak with a calm voice and direct the customers to safety. She should also act with modesty and humility, not narcissist shades of self-confidence or self-esteem. When she apologizes to a customer, she should know how to apologize properly that she is sorry the customer is inconvenienced, without giving the impression that she or the company will assume responsibility for the inconvenience or its remedy.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUpTI3vVB9A[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gOMovWEszo[/youtube]

Doing it wrong in TW (no microphone, bowing is a little too abrupt):
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj_eBUSPPao[/youtube]

Taiwanese businesses suffer from "quality fade" issues in customer service. New businesses tend to have a well selected and well trained staff. However, as time goes on they often fail to retain customer service quality. This is one area that needs a lot of improvement.

Proper training from an early age:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bec8JU4_zKQ[/youtube]


Winston wrote:LOOK!!! Even Outwest corroborated my claim about Taiwan!
http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... 401#113401
PS: As far as that goes, my limited time in Taiwan- only a few days, and most of my contact with Taiwanese leads me to think that most of them are pretty uptight anal retentive types. I would have ZERO interest in living there.


As I've stated previously, fishing for replies that conforms to your views might make you feel better for n seconds, but when it's over, you'll still find yourself in an unhappy place. The solution, as many of us have tried to tell you for years, is to pack up and move.
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Postby Winston » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:18 am

Momopi,
I'm wondering something. Is it possible for someone who is not cold and uptight, but open and relaxed, to adjust to a culture where people in public carry a cold uptight body language with no eye contact?

How do other foreigners in Taiwan get used to it? How do they thrive or have fun in spite of it? Do they just ignore it? If so, how come I can't? Am I too sensitive or empathic?

I don't get it. So I created this post below to copy and paste on Taiwan Facebook groups and forums. What do you think? Will I get any helpful answers?

My form letter post to other foreigners in Taiwan:

"Question for foreigners and Asian Americans in Taiwan:

May I ask you a serious and taboo question? I'm sort of a foreigner (ABC) too, so I'd like to get other foreigner perspectives, since they are more likely to relate to me. Sorry that this will be an "uncool" question that doesn't fit the "positive cheerful" type of content in groups like this. If you don't like that, then don't read on.

Anyway, here is my question:

How do you deal with the cold, stiff, uptight body language of Taiwanese people around you in public, and the lack of eye contact? I've never been able to get used to it. It makes me feel depressed and deflated, and it seriously dampens my psychological mood. How do you adjust to it? Does it affect you at all? The body language here is very different than most other countries, as I'm sure you know. To me, normal body language is open, direct, expressive and not afraid to make eye contact. But this is not the body language in Taiwan or NE Asia (Japan, Korea, Hong Kong, Singapore) at all, as you know.

It sometimes gets me down so much that I can't even go outside in public. It makes me wonder, "How can human beings descend into such a state of being? It's like these people have become hollow empty shells with no soul or emotions. Very inhuman. The scary thing is that I am afraid that I'll turn into one of them if I'm here too long.

I am an Asian American (Taiwanese American) who grew up in California, but never fit in. I have more of a European type of soul and personality than American or Asian. I know that's a strange mix - Asian American with European soul/attitude - but that's who I am. I've never really felt like I could "be myself" in North America or NE Asia (Taiwan included). I've only felt happiest and most free to be me, in cultures in Europe, Russia, Mexico, and SE Asia. In those cultures, the body language is very open, relaxed and natural, and people make eye contact easily. So I've felt the most comfortable in those cultures, since that's how I am too.

But I've never been able to adjust to NE Asian culture. Why does the body language here and lack of eye contact get me down? Am I too sensitive and empathic? Does it ever bother you too? Do you just get used to it? If so, how?

What I don't get is this: If I'm not cold and uptight myself, how can I get used to people who are like that? It's kind of like blending matter and anti-matter, which is logically impossible. I don't see how it can be done. Am I missing something? Any advice or suggestions?

Thanks in advance for any input. And sorry that this post doesn't fit the cheerful, positive mood of the other posts here."
Last edited by Winston on Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Winston » Sun Jan 13, 2013 12:33 am

Momopi,
Check out this white girl from Slovakia having fun in Taiwan. I wonder how she adjusts to the cold uptight body language in Taiwan? lol. I sent her the above questions. I wonder how she will respond. lol

Her blog:

http://taiwan-travelingtipsdetails.blogspot.com/

Her Facebook photos:

http://www.facebook.com/monika.kubikova.7/photos_stream

Image

Image

Her Couchsurfing photos:

https://www.couchsurfing.org/profile.html?id=DKSYUFP

Image

Image

Doesn't the Asian girl in the photo below with her look so narrow, insular and simple-minded? lol I'm sure she's a great freethinker huh? lol

Image
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Postby Rock » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:19 am

Winston wrote:Momopi,
Check out this white girl from Slovakia having fun in Taiwan. I wonder how she adjusts to the cold uptight body language in Taiwan? lol. I sent her the above questions. I wonder how she will respond. lol

Her blog:




Her Couchsurfing photos:

https://www.couchsurfing.org/profile.html?id=DKSYUFP



Doesn't the Asian girl in the photo below with her look so narrow, insular and simple-minded? lol I'm sure she's a great freethinker huh? lol



I think cute and tame looking foreign girls like this one are going to experience a very different Taiwan from the one you do, lol. Many Taiwanese are naturally friendly, hospitable, and even curious about white girls in their country, especially those who look harmless and approachable like her. And white girls don't suffer from the playboy stigma which some white guys do with certain locals.
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Postby keepingitreal » Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:16 pm

The place is for bitches.
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Postby Winston » Sun Jan 13, 2013 10:59 pm

Rock wrote:
Winston wrote:Momopi,
Check out this white girl from Slovakia having fun in Taiwan. I wonder how she adjusts to the cold uptight body language in Taiwan? lol. I sent her the above questions. I wonder how she will respond. lol


I think cute and tame looking foreign girls like this one are going to experience a very different Taiwan from the one you do, lol. Many Taiwanese are naturally friendly, hospitable, and even curious about white girls in their country, especially those who look harmless and approachable like her. And white girls don't suffer from the playboy stigma which some white guys do with certain locals.


Yeah maybe, but you gotta look at other factors too. For example, she looks to be a reserved conservative goody two shoes type, which tends to blend in with Taiwan ok. On the other hand, my traits are a direct contradiction to Taiwan. I'm intense, complex, negative, narcissistic, philosophical, freethinking, serious, nonconformist, intellectual, eccentric, and not conservative or goody two shoes at all. None of these traits flow or fit in Taiwan at all. So not only do I not fit in at all, but I can't even be myself either. Personality is a big part of it too.

Plus if you look at the photos of her and the others in her photos, you can tell that she does not have a deep connection with these people. They are more like friendly acquaintances, the kind you see sometimes but are not close to. That's the big problem in Taiwan that no one dares to talk about, that even if you have a lot of friends or acquaintances, you aren't going to have deep connections with them, because deep down, they are essentially empty and soulless. I'm sure Keepingitreal knows what I am talking about. Thus, the social interaction in Taiwan feels empty and flat. It doesn't "hit the spot". It's hard to explain.

Also, that German guy I told you about did not like the fake hospitality he got in Taiwan for being white. He could see through it and said that it was too plastic and that he didn't see it as "true friendliness". Ultimately it was not satisfying. He did learn to appreciate the good nature of Taiwanese people, but I don't think he ever really connected with them. Being nice to people and truly connecting with them are totally different things. I'm sure you know that.
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Postby Winston » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:07 pm

Rock and Momopi,
Check this out. You know that white girl from Slovakia that I posted pictures of above? Well I talked to her on Facebook earlier today after showing her the above questions about how she deals with the cold uptight body language of Taiwanese. Surprisingly, she did not deny that Taiwanese body language is cold and uptight. She said that she simply ignores it and doesn't focus on it because she came to Taiwan to study Chinese and to fulfill God's calling. She then suggested that I turn to God for help in my problems in Taiwan.

So in a way, she admitted that I was right, even though, as you said, she probably "experiences a different Taiwan" than I do. Wow! So you see, I was right. Even though Taiwanese are more friendly to her, she still acknowledges what I'm talking about and doesn't deny it! That only supports the truth of what I say.

Here is what she wrote me during the chat:

HI Winston,
I'm sorry, I might not help you with this. If the cultural difference is too big problem for you, I suggest you to visit psychologist and discuss it with him/her. Or, you can try to ask other people to help you. Good luck!
Monika

It is important to know what is your goal and purpose being here. My purpose to stay here is study Chinese and earn international experience. This usually helps me to concentrate on important things, so I simply ignore it.
I suggest you to start to pray and look for the God - he will always give you strength! You can also practice to be patient and humble here. This is particular important for me to learn.

If you're humble, you can more listen and try to understand people - the way they were brought up, culture, history, etc. Then you can understand why they behave the certain way. You just have to step out of your comfort zone and learn everyday. This is the way people are shaped and develop. I hope I have helped you.

The answer to this is God. He sent me here for purpose, that I'm trying to understand. You're kind, humble and friendly that is more difficult, people will sense it and even they will be more rough to you, you can have better feeling from yourself, because the way you're treated will not effects your inner integrity. I believe that we feel only the way we want to feel and we let people to feel about treating us only the way we treat ourselves. We always have to start from ourselves - if we change the way we treat people, after some time, this will get back to us. At the end, the one who is watching over us are not people, but God himself. Life is a test.

Only Christian God will give you inner happiness and freedom of mind - that is what you're looking for- NOT GIRL!


Obviously she is a devout Christian. So my impression of her as a goody two shoes type was right. She was nice, but I guess not that helpful. But she did not deny anything I said.
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Postby Winston » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:16 pm

Also Rock,
When I sent those same questions to that German guy I told you about, he wrote me a long response back. See below. What do you think?

His response:

"Firstly, I think its exagerated to speak about a typical europe body language or others cultures/countries ever, there are some differences, but thats it. Secondly, just accept the way taiwainese people communicate and the way they use body language. Try to be more sensible, relax yourself and do not over-interpretate every small gesture.
Although taiwenese people maybe are sometimes like you describe it, it does not help you to be just grumby about this. I think the main point of your problem are not the taiwanese, more the way you handle this. Do not get me wrong, but you are searching for a kind of strategy or trick to get girls or find friends. And thats the main obstacle.
In the interpesonal life there isnt something like this - I mean even somebody would be able to describe the perfect method to get girls, it wont work if somebody tries to learn it. Interhuman communication just work successfully if you let all the ideas of being able to learn it just theoretically go. Everywhere on the world somebody just will like you, if you show him yourself. You can stand tall, dress well, have a nice car, but thats not enough. People mostly can fell when somebody else is trying to strike as somebody else.
I give you an example: If I go to the club and I try to get a girl for the night, the most girls wont go home with me. Why? Because with my goal in mind I will act like a salesman trying to sell a product "my personality or something" (Im demoting myself to a product) and also I am demoting the girl to a product "the way she looks or something". Even girls who are also wanting to have sex with a new man wont go with me (maybe a few bitches).
Try to meet people without a goal in mind, try to be interested in their lives, their worries, their hobbies, what they like. Really try to be interested in this. If you are interested in somebody live just in order to be liked by this person you will lose. Let your ego go, you can tell them that its hard for you, about your worries. (and another thing: start to learn chinese, thats helpful as well.)
Winston, I mean I know you a bit and I will tell you my impression about you. I think somehow you lost the connection to your inner self, you critisize the people and their behavior, but a wise man would not only critisize he would try to see: why are these people like this? why they are feared? and shy? he would like to know them in order to help them open up, not in order to "controll" them somehow. When in read in your forum I also get the impression of a lot very egocentric people wondering why others dont like them. and why? because they are not able to accept people how they are. (because they are egocentric)
I mean, you know I also had problems with taiwanese mentality but in the end i think taiwanese are lovely. they are not this educated, but they try to help and they can accept things. thats a big virtue.
you wrote something like "If Im not cold and uptight myself, how can i get used to people who are like that?" but i think sometimes your are cold. you are cold because you cant accept that they are uptight. give them time, meet time and give them time. they will open up, when they trust you. dont think buying flowers, paying drinks, making compliments is the way it goes. They need to fell they you are nice just because you want to be nice, no other reasons. gifts need to be without the expectation of geeting something back.
first look at yourself. find out what are your misstakes or weaknesses. and then try to be better, improve yourself.
I hope these few remarks will help you and you will take them serious. you can answer me, if you like to.
greetings
wilken

p.s.: for sure its hard in taiwan to talk to strangers and get in contact with them. dont go to them and say "hey whats up", go and say something that arises their attention, even in germany its not always this easy. If you like a girl who is working lets say in a shop, go there often talkt to her about shop-related stuff, and be nice. in a sublimal way you can let het know that yu like her, but just very sublimal. and after a while, maybe there is a good situation for a small joke. and then when there is a good situation, you can ask a ore personal question. this is a very slow process and this "hey how are you? i like you, do you want to drink a coffee with me?" is too direct. try to be more mysterious, more slowly...you can also serach for groups where you can meet people and come together...the street, a club this a bad locations for meeting new people....visit a chinese course or something, this will help you or a course about philosophy. why not try to study again?"


He seems to use a lot of mangina logic and politically correct arguments. He also claims that people on this forum are egocentric. Is that true? His views also seem a bit narrow, like he doesn't see the big picture.

He also has a lot of logic flaws. For example, he claims that the great German philosopher Arthur Schopenhauer was not a good philosopher, because he was too negative and pessimistic. So what? Schopenhauer told a lot of deep truths that were VERY ACCURATE. Isn't that important? Just because he was a pessimist, this young German guy assumes that he wasn't right, as if pessimistic views are false and only optimistic views are correct. Huge fallacy there. Yet he claims to study science and logic.

He also said that ESP and telepathy have no scientific evidence to back it up. He is not away of any of the vast amount of research and scientific evidence to back it up, simply because he never looked for it nor did any research himself. He is not well read in psi research and no expert at all. Therefore, it is illogical and ignorant for one to pretend to be an expert in something one knows nothing about and has never researched. It would be like me pretending to be an expert in basketball and making declarations, rather than being honest and saying "I don't know" since I know nothing about basketball. It is foolish for one to make assertions about something one knows nothing about. So why is this fallacy so common?
Last edited by Winston on Mon Jan 14, 2013 4:48 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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Postby Rock » Sun Jan 13, 2013 11:43 pm

The way I would get close to Taiwanese was to date them. Whether or not things progressed, I was often introduced to the girls' family members, co-workers, schoolmates, etc. I also made connections through my work. There are many ways to network but it takes patience and time. And you need some sort starting platform. The only platform you seem to have is Coach Surfing but as you told us, it totally sucks in Chiayi.
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