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Why is Taiwan so alienating, lonely, disconnected, negative?

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.

Moderators: jamesbond, fschmidt

Postby Winston » Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:50 am

celery2010 wrote:Winston, you're in east asia, you wouldn't approach random people in the street without an angle. It's the same in NYC, London, Japan, Korea and China. People would think that you're trying to sell them something.

You need to find a situation that is a logical opener, like asking for help, asking for an opinion, etc. Or someone already in a store/cafe, bar or a more isolated situation, like late at night in Ximending, or in a smaller city.

More realistically, you need to meet people the way most people do, by activities, through friends, through work, while traveling, etc.

2 questions/tips:

1. Do you speak Mandarin well? This makes a BIG difference. And how well do you integrate into Asian culture? It doesn't seem like your personality meshs well with asian culture.

2. Find a way to meet/get introduced to women. The easiest way to do this honestly is to teach English. You'll have tons of students, co-teachers, etc. And it will be easy to meet them.

3. Have you tried meeting other Taiwanese-Americans? They may know other people and get you more socially integrated. You don't sound very active or social in Taiwan. Try other methods of meeting more people besides dating sites.

I also prepared a post that i was going to add to your dress/style thread, but i'll add it here for you benefit too.


Ok tell me this then:

Suppose I walk into a Starbucks or coffee shop and there are cute Taiwanese girls sitting there. What could I say to start up a conversation? You tell me, and I will test it and even film it with my spy cam pen.

You gotta understand that these girls have a cold, cold, repressed body language, which is common in East Asia, and does NOT feel comfortable in cold approaching.

Why didn't I feel this cold wall in Russia or Eastern Europe? Can you explain?

I am not imagining this cold wall. It is real and everywhere in Taiwan around girls.

I've met many girls in Taiwan through the normal ways. But all they do is friend me on facebook. They hardly ever write me back or make time to go out with me. What can I do about that?

I don't know any Taiwanese Americans here that are nice or open. They are pretty stuck up and snobby too.

Yes I speak some Mandarin, but if you don't have any novelty appeal, a Taiwanese girl isn't want to talk to you. You gotta set yourself apart somehow.

Of course my personality doesn't mesh well in East Asia. Do you know any nonconformist person who fits into Taiwanese culture? lol If I did fit into Taiwan, I don't think my fans here would have liked me. I would have turned out very uninteresting. I'm sure you know what I mean.

I've known many years ago that I didn't fit in Taiwan. Taiwan's vibe is very innocent, goody two shoes, and repressed. I can't be myself here at all. That's why I never came here to settle. I only came here to pass through, but have wasted too much time.

When nonconformists and conformists try to socialize, there is this wedge between them. Even if they are both polite, it is apparent that they are on different wavelengths. After a while, both parties feel like there is no chemistry. Have you experienced this? Has anyone else experienced this?
Last edited by Winston on Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby celery2010 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 12:51 am

Well, happierabroad is like a train wreck that people can’t help but stare at as they pass by. That’s a big reason why many come here.

Winston, I’m in a unique position to help you. I’m also an asian-american, the same age (39), and I just finished spending 8 months traveling all over Asia.

First of all, the reason why you gained weight is not necessarily your fault. You just spent substantial time in the Philippines. I REALLY had to use a lot of effort to not gain weight there. Almost everything is either meat-based, high fat fast food or just bad for you in general. About the only thing not high in fat there were the abundant, cheap tropical fruits..

But now you need to realize what happened and what you need to do. You need to join a gym and lift weights AND do cardio. Combine this with visits to vegetarian restaurants in Taiwan (of which there are many) and regular walking, and you’ll be doing great.

There’s a whole series of “Extreme Makeoverâ€￾ shows where every week a 300+ lb grossly overweight person is whipped into shape by a personal trainer. They lose half their body weight and undertake jogging. If a 500 lb blob can successfully take up jogging, so can you.

You definitely need to lose weight at 180 lbs. I’m 5’7â€￾ to 5’8â€￾ ish probably an inch or so taller than you. My weight has fluctuated from 138 to 175. From 138-150, I’m in pretty good shape, from 150-160, avg. From 160-170, less than ideal, 170-180 visibly a bit overweight and “could use losing 10-15 lbs. For me to start to get a pot belly like yours, I’d need to start getting over 185-190lbs. You have NOTHING to lose by losing 20-25 lbs and getting in better shape. Here’s a Vietnamese-American guy who became A LOT better looking after working out:

Second, you need to experiment with your look. Just like you, I have an enormously sized head/face. I look horrible with short hair/shaved head. If you just let your current style grow in 2-3 inches, that alone would be an improvement.

But what you need to do is to experiment and see what else you can try. Try growing in sideburns. Grow in a goatee/soul patch/mustache or 5’oclock shadow. Try not washing your hair for a few days or using molding mud. Also consider different kinds of glasses/shades, and different styles of hats, etc. Grow your hair in and try different cuts. If you’re not happy, chop it off and grow in again and/or wear a hat.

Thirdly, get all of your pants tapered inward (slimmer in the legs) by a tailor in Taiwan, It’ll be cheap to get done there. Also make sure that they are the proper length too.

As far as clothing goes, simple short sleeve dress shirts and slim fit pants should do fine during the day, and a simple dress shirt/v-neck with a blazer should be fine when out with women at night. Although you do need some better style, I think that you are somewhat right on this one.

Finally, having traveled all over Asia, I think your best bet is going to be mainland China, hands down. How good is your Mandarin? And how well do you integrate with Asian culture? You seem like the kind of person who is NOT well integrated with asian culture and the kind of person who speaks poor Mandarin.

If you let your hair grow in 2-3 inches, lose 20-25 lbs/get in better shape, than you’ll look pretty similar to a stereotypical mainland Chinese male from parts of the southern half of the country. If you spend some time there, learn to speak good Mandarin and can vibe with women culturally, you’ll have a good shot.

Additionally, Vietnam, Thailand and Cambodia/Laos are also possible options. Your preference for a less uptight society and value for intellectual conversation could possibly make Thailand/Vietnam preferable to mainland China.

In Taiwan itself, I think you will be much better in the south of Taiwan, or in the smaller cities. People in Kaoshiung are much more laid back and friendly, completely opposite and totally different from Taipei. Taipei is like the NY of Taiwan, very impersonal. Also the people were VERY friendly and laid back in the smaller cities. I really like Dulan and Taitung on the SE coast. People in Hualien were also friendly.

Due to society’s harsh judgements on unmarried women over 30/35 in NE asia, one of your best bets is unmarried or divorced women over the age of 30 or 35.

Hope you take this advice to heart and good luck.
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Postby Winston » Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:04 am

Celery,
You already posted that in the "Winston's new clothes" thread. I replied to it there. See there.

http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... 8958#88958
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Postby celery2010 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:19 am

Winston wrote:
celery2010 wrote:Winston, you're in east asia, you wouldn't approach random people in the street without an angle. It's the same in NYC, London, Japan, Korea and China. People would think that you're trying to sell them something.

You need to find a situation that is a logical opener, like asking for help, asking for an opinion, etc. Or someone already in a store/cafe, bar or a more isolated situation, like late at night in Ximending, or in a smaller city.

More realistically, you need to meet people the way most people do, by activities, through friends, through work, while traveling, etc.

2 questions/tips:

1. Do you speak Mandarin well? This makes a BIG difference. And how well do you integrate into Asian culture? It doesn't seem like your personality meshs well with asian culture.

2. Find a way to meet/get introduced to women. The easiest way to do this honestly is to teach English. You'll have tons of students, co-teachers, etc. And it will be easy to meet them.

3. Have you tried meeting other Taiwanese-Americans? They may know other people and get you more socially integrated. You don't sound very active or social in Taiwan. Try other methods of meeting more people besides dating sites.

I also prepared a post that i was going to add to your dress/style thread, but i'll add it here for you benefit too.


Ok tell me this then:

Suppose I walk into a Starbucks or coffee shop and there are cute Taiwanese girls sitting there. What could I say to start up a conversation? You tell me, and I will test it and even film it with my spy cam pen.

You gotta understand that these girls have a cold, cold, repressed body language, which is common in East Asia, and does NOT feel comfortable in cold approaching.

Why didn't I feel this cold wall in Russia or Eastern Europe? Can you explain?

I am not imagining this cold wall. It is real and everywhere in Taiwan around girls.

I've met many girls in Taiwan through the normal ways. But all they do is friend me on facebook. They hardly ever write me back or make time to go out with me. What can I do about that?

I don't know any Taiwanese Americans here that are nice or open. They are pretty stuck up and snobby too.

Yes I speak some Mandarin, but if you don't have any novelty appeal, a Taiwanese girl isn't want to talk to you. You gotta set yourself apart somehow.

Of course my personality doesn't mesh well in East Asia. Do you know any nonconformist person who fits into Taiwanese culture?

When nonconformists and conformists try to socialize, there is this wedge between them. Even if they are both polite, it is apparent that they are on different wavelengths. After a while, both parties feel like there is no chemistry. Have you experienced this? Has anyone else experienced this?


two things:

Did you ever end up dating any of the girls you approached on the street in Russia? Did you get their phone number, set up a date and then "get to feel their sexy legs?"

Secondly, i think Russia has changed a lot since you were there. I'm not sure that you'd still get the same responses.
a) Russia is a lot richer than it used to be.
b) Russia now has a lot of skinheads
c) there are now lots of people of asian descent in Russia, they have all migrated there in search of jobs and locals don't necessarily like them
d) the days right after the Iron Curtain opened, Russians were highly curious

You're basically asking how to pick up girls. This is called PUA- you may as well contact Asian Playboy.

Picking up women cold is generally a lot easier if you are good looking, but maybe you can find some girls who are intrigued by you.

But since you asked maybe here's some tips:

1. Approach some random girls walking around a nightlife area (at night) (and are dressed up so that they look like they are going out), tell them that you're a foreigner and would like to know which places are good to go out. You can ask a whole lot of questions with this. See where it goes from there.

2. Goto a night market. Approach a girl next to a food stall, even better if she is eating there. Ask her, is the food at that stall any good? What is that item that they are serving? Can i try a bite, sounds really interesting. Continue conversation from there.

Honestly again, it's not that easy if they aren't immediately attracted to you. Good looking guys do this, gauge their reaction and if they seem interested proceed forward. Still a good majority already have boyfriends/are married, too disoriented/distracted at the time to notice, not interested in foreigners/you, etc. After approaching enough girls, some will show interest.

You could:

1. Do a language exchange.
2. Take classes locally.
3. Join some kind of Chinese religion they aren't christian so they don't have religion based premarital sex hangups.
4. Join a sports/ martial arts/yoga/aerobics class.
5. Hangout at the local university
6. Try to meet local Taiwanese who are interested in int'l travel/foreigners

Being fluent in Mandarin will help a ton. Lots of girls in Taiwan don't speak very good English. How do you expect to communicate with the girls you want if you don't speak their language? Let's say you meet a hot girl tommorow who likes you but can't speak any English, how stupid are you going to feel?

If i were to approach girls in Taiwan, i'd approach them in Mandarin. Approaching them in English may lower your chances significantly for someone who looks like a local. Plus again it eliminates a lot of girls who don't speak English, don't feel comfortable in English or may feel that you are not culturally acclimated enough. Your chances will be much better if you can speak Mandarin.
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Postby Winston » Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:59 am

Celery,
Dude, have you seen my photos and videos? They are linked from the menu at the top. Of course I've dated the girls I hit on in Russia and felt their legs. Duh. Haven't you ever been there?

They are the most liberal women when it comes to touching them or approaching them or flirting. I'm not good looking in Russia either, but Russian girls don't like skinny guys, so that doesn't count against me, and plus they get a kick out of a guy trying to flirt with them. It's hard to explain. But you can see my videos at the link above and see what I mean.

I've rubbed hundreds of girls legs in Russia. They are really cool with it. Totally different world and vibe.

Even if Russia is richer and snobbier, so what? There are still many poor girls. The thing is, it has a different vibe altogether. It's not going to be 100 percent different than before. It's not going to be like Taiwan. f**k no!

Go there and see.

I told you, I've met many girls in Taiwan and facebooked them. But they don't make time to meet me. I can't flirt with them. They don't make it so that there is romance/chemistry. All they do is friend me on FB. Nothing else happens. BORING!!!

Why should I teach English or take a class? I'm not here to settle. I don't expend energy in cultures that aren't compatible with me. I don't invest in things when the odds are against me and when I can't be myself and am not even acknowledged.

Are you a deep person? If not, you may have trouble understanding the following:

You see, I can't just go out and do things in Taiwan. When I go out in Taiwan, I DO NOT feel normal at all. I feel this energy/vibe trying to repress me, like I'm not allowed to be me. Instead, I have to be innocent, goody two shoes and have no sexual desires. I can't even be myself.

All the cold closed repressed faces around me in Taiwan DO NOT MAKE ME FEEL GOOD. I can't be myself. I am not validated. I can't do what I want. Because who I am doesn't exist in Taiwan.

Flirting in Taiwan or approaching a girl feels uncomfortable. It feels like cussing or swearing in church.

If you had the words "f**k you" written on your t-shirt, would you feel comfortable walking into a church during a congregation? Well that's how it feels for me to go out in Taiwan. I don't feel normal. I can't be myself and function as myself. I can't express myself. It's the most invalidating experience, when you can't be yourself. It's like I can't even function here.

Do you get what I mean? This is kind of deep, so if you aren't deep, what I said may not make sense to you. It's not easy to explain or put in words, but that's the best way I can explain it.
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Postby chanta76 » Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:48 am

I feel that way in NYC but for different reason. It's not easy just to pick up and go. Some of it is income reason or responsibilities.

Seems to me Winston you ready to move to another country. Taiwan is just a no go for you.
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Has Winston bought a plane ticket yet?

Postby Jester » Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:59 am

Winston wrote:
Why should I teach English or take a class? I'm not here to settle. I don't expend energy in cultures that aren't compatible with me. I don't invest in things when the odds are against me and when I can't be myself and am not even acknowledged.

Are you a deep person? If not, you may have trouble understanding the following:

You see, I can't just go out and do things in Taiwan. When I go out in Taiwan, I DO NOT feel normal at all. I feel this energy/vibe trying to repress me, like I'm not allowed to be me. Instead, I have to be innocent, goody two shoes and have no sexual desires. I can't even be myself.

All the cold closed repressed faces around me in Taiwan DO NOT MAKE ME FEEL GOOD.
I can't be myself. I am not validated. I can't do what I want. Because who I am doesn't exist in Taiwan.

Flirting in Taiwan or approaching a girl feels uncomfortable. It feels like cussing or swearing in church.

If you had the words "f**k you" written on your t-shirt, would you feel comfortable walking into a church during a congregation? Well that's how it feels for me to go out in Taiwan. I don't feel normal. I can't be myself and function as myself. I can't express myself. It's the most invalidating experience, when you can't be yourself. It's like I can't even function here.

Do you get what I mean? This is kind of deep, so if you aren't deep, what I said may not make sense to you. It's not easy to explain or put in words, but that's the best way I can explain it.


chanta76 wrote:Seems to me Winston you ready to move to another country. Taiwan is just a no go for you.


Celery gave VERY good advice. But Winston aint gonna do it.

Understood.

So......
Chanta nailed it.
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Re: Has Winston bought a plane ticket yet?

Postby Winston » Sun Jul 22, 2012 6:52 am

Jester wrote:
Winston wrote:
Why should I teach English or take a class? I'm not here to settle. I don't expend energy in cultures that aren't compatible with me. I don't invest in things when the odds are against me and when I can't be myself and am not even acknowledged.

Are you a deep person? If not, you may have trouble understanding the following:

You see, I can't just go out and do things in Taiwan. When I go out in Taiwan, I DO NOT feel normal at all. I feel this energy/vibe trying to repress me, like I'm not allowed to be me. Instead, I have to be innocent, goody two shoes and have no sexual desires. I can't even be myself.

All the cold closed repressed faces around me in Taiwan DO NOT MAKE ME FEEL GOOD.
I can't be myself. I am not validated. I can't do what I want. Because who I am doesn't exist in Taiwan.

Flirting in Taiwan or approaching a girl feels uncomfortable. It feels like cussing or swearing in church.

If you had the words "f**k you" written on your t-shirt, would you feel comfortable walking into a church during a congregation? Well that's how it feels for me to go out in Taiwan. I don't feel normal. I can't be myself and function as myself. I can't express myself. It's the most invalidating experience, when you can't be yourself. It's like I can't even function here.

Do you get what I mean? This is kind of deep, so if you aren't deep, what I said may not make sense to you. It's not easy to explain or put in words, but that's the best way I can explain it.


chanta76 wrote:Seems to me Winston you ready to move to another country. Taiwan is just a no go for you.


Celery gave VERY good advice. But Winston aint gonna do it.

Understood.

So......
Chanta nailed it.



No you don't understand. I've done those things before that Celery suggested. And I have met a lot of girls in Taiwan. But like I said, all they do is friend me on Facebook and nothing else happens from there. They are always busy with school and never make time for me. They don't flirt with me, or try to create romance/chemistry. Pooh hoo. No fun. So boring!

Chanta,
So you understand how I feel then? Do you also feel repressed in NYC, like you aren't allowed to have desires, but only allowed to mind your own business? It sucks doesn't it, since you can't talk to others about it, because complaining about this is seen as taboo.

IMPORTANT POINT ABOUT TAIWAN GIRLS I FORGOT TO MENTION:

Btw, I forgot to explain something important here that I didn't realize before. Here is the reason why I feel that Taiwan girls are even harder to approach than American girls.

You see, American girls and Taiwan girls both have cold walls around them. But they have different kinds of cold walls. American girls have a snobby anti-male defensive type of wall, whereas Taiwan girls have a cold repressed closed type of wall, which is an inherent part of their character and nature.

The key difference for me is this: When I'm in the proximity of a Taiwanese girl, her cold wall and cold repressed face actually RUBS OFF on me, making ME feel cold and repressed too! YUCK! And that's not what I am. So in that sense, around Taiwan girls, I am sort of FORCED to be like them!!! Cold and repressed!!! ICK!!!

So you see, if they are cold and repressed, and I am too, then two cold repressed people are obviously not going to approach each other or chat each other up! It's like 0+0=0.

I certainly don't want to feel cold and repressed, but the Taiwanese girl's fundamental nature rubs off on me and forces me to become one of them. That's another reason I can't be myself.

Isn't that terrible? Does that suck or what?

Is this an impossible situation? Is there a logical solution?
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Postby polya » Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:04 am

...
Last edited by polya on Fri Aug 10, 2012 6:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Winston » Sun Jul 22, 2012 7:29 am

polya wrote:Sounds like Taiwan is becoming just like the USA. Taiwanese men will have to go overseas for wives - don't go to the USA boys!


They already do. There's an industry in Taiwan importing brides from Vietnam, and maybe from China too. If Taiwan girls were easy, and if guys here had choices, this industry wouldn't exist. Taiwan also has the lowest birthrate in the world, as Falcon posted in another thread.

So what are these guys smoking who say that everyone can get girls in Taiwan except me? lol
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Postby polya » Mon Jul 23, 2012 10:48 am

Winston wrote:
polya wrote:Sounds like Taiwan is becoming just like the USA. Taiwanese men will have to go overseas for wives - don't go to the USA boys!


They already do. There's an industry in Taiwan importing brides from Vietnam, and maybe from China too. If Taiwan girls were easy, and if guys here had choices, this industry wouldn't exist. Taiwan also has the lowest birthrate in the world, as Falcon posted in another thread.

So what are these guys smoking who say that everyone can get girls in Taiwan except me? lol


That's really grim for the Taiwanese guys! Are Taiwanese girls feminist b!tches who can dump their men and get child/mommy support for decades & the men have to live in poverty paying it?
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Postby ethan_sg » Mon Jul 23, 2012 3:36 pm

I used to have a Taiwanese girlfriend but I would say I never spent enough time in Taiwan to really get a feel of what the dating scene is like there. My limited experience tells me it's better than Singapore or Japan, but definitely worse than China. Short of actually being physically in Taiwan to try your luck with the girls, the next best thing to get a feel of what girls in Taiwan vs. China are like using a reasonably large sample size would be if you try dating sites from the 2 countries. Simply put your profile up and compare how many girls from each country initiates contact/responds to your initiation of contact.

I think Winston's along with others on this site have seen a far greater level of responsiveness from girls in Chinese dating sites as opposed to Taiwanese ones. Chinese dating sites are pretty popular among many posters here and can only be so because they must be getting a decent level of responses from the girls there. Not sure the same can be said for Taiwanese, Hong-Kong, Japanese or Singaporean dating sites for instance.

Dating sites expose each individual to a large number of prospective partners at the same time therefore one's comparative experiences in using the dating sites of 2 countries, given that the individual has been on the site long enough to reach out to a sufficiently large sample size of girls, logically provides pretty good empirical evidence on what the dating situations are like in the 2 countries.

I'm not surprised that China wins hands down. Just for fun (because I'm already in a long term steady relationship) I tried posting my profile with my picture on China Love Links a month ago and I was taken aback by the sheer number of girls who tried to initiate contact or show interest in me. Despite me rarely being signed into the site, there were literally at least 5-10 girls who would either 'send interest' or send a message to me everyday. Needless to say this was very flattering to me but I wouldn't expect the same results on a Taiwanese, Japanese or Singaporean site.
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Postby chanta76 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:01 pm

Wealth and economic has a correlation with it . Asian girls from the wealthier countries are not as desperate compared to an Asian girl from a poorer country. Philippine ranks low in economics so it makes sense many of the lower social economic girls seek a foreign guy.

Taiwan is fairly develop and with that comes upward mobility for the girls . Same with South Korea and Singapore etc..etc. However, China is unique. Chinese girls from the city like Shanghai might be spoiled but a Chinese girl from the country side or the poorer parts of China is more friendly and receptive to a seeking a foreign man.
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Postby eurobrat » Mon Jul 23, 2012 4:11 pm

....
Last edited by eurobrat on Sat May 25, 2013 12:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby pete98146 » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:10 pm

eurobrat wrote:Is Winston tough enough to handle China? I have never been but I heard it can be pretty rough in comparison to Taiwan.


A more fair question would be....is Winston tough enough to handle Winston?
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