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Filipinos - The UnChristian Catholics

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.

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Postby davewe » Wed May 30, 2012 3:36 am

fschmidt wrote:
davewe wrote:Thanks. I'm sure she'll be happy to hear that. :D

Don't get me wrong. I am not against religion. I think most religions have many fine things to offer. I am totally supportive of my gfs religions beliefs. But two things strike me as odd here:

1. Most places, whether they are defined as religious or not have rampant immoral or unethical or criminal conduct. Whether that's violence, adultery, theft, scamming leaders, etc. Why should a so-called religious country be any different. In fact arguably societies with religious repression often unravel into immoral or unethical cultures.

As for me, those few societies with allegedly high moral standards don't sound particularly appealing.

2. Most guys are here because their definition of Happier Abroad is attractive women who are more available to them than what they have in their Western cultures. So it's surprising to me that we are talking about morality.

Yes, if you really want a virgin you can find many in PI. I currently know several. To each his own I suppose. That certainly isn't why I traveled to the PI.

I still maintain we're fundamentally hypocritical. I grew up Jewish in a semi-observant family. It was a well known adage that if you wanted to know where the best Chinese food is - you asked a Jew. We do love our spareribs!

And Catholic girls love their...:D


Religion is a necessary condition, but not a sufficient condition, for morality.

The history of Judaism is fully of examples of Jews being corrupted by the surrounding culture. The first example is in the Tanakh (Old Testament) leading to the fall to Bablylon. The most recent example is Reform Judaism (which includes "Conservative" Judaism). In each case, only the hardcore Jews who rejected the surrounding culture and stuck to the Torah survived. In our times, that is Orthodox Judaism. Orthodox Jews are not hypocritical. Anyone who want to see a religion sticks to its principles can watch this:



Perhaps you are right. So on one hand I could be a good, moral Orthodox Jew and on the other hand I can schtup a hot young Filipina, who adores me. Decisions, decisions - :D
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Re: Filipinos - the unchristian Catholics

Postby Winston » Wed May 30, 2012 4:19 am

zboy1 wrote:Interestingly enough, all the things this Hans Schreiber describes about Filipinos perfectly describes Americans as well! In fact, I don't think there's a more hypocritical religious group than Christians in the United States. If Filipinos were truly God-fearing, there wouldn't be nearly the level of prostitution, sex, and general debauchery and corruption as there is in the Philippines. Those are not Christian values in the least...


That's not true. You only hear about the bad Christians in the US, not the good ones. Most devout Christians in the US have strict morals and live by them, esp the Mormons.

On the other hand, the average Filipino who calls themselves a Christian or Catholic is only good to their family. Other than that, they are shameless and have no real pride. They believe that lying is ok and sometimes even stealing. They have a Robin Hood mentality. No Christian believes that lying is ok. They know nothing about Christianity.

You can't compare with Americans. Americans are raised with a conscience and the belief that lying is wrong. So at least they feel guilt, even if they choose wrong. Plus, in America I've never been cheated or scammed by petty things, or short changed to their advantage. American businesses reimburse you if they screw up, while Filipino businesses don't.

One time at a hotel restaurant in the Philippines, I found a piece of metal in my spaghetti. Outraged, I told the waitress about it. But all she said was, "Are you ok?" She didn't bother to treat me something for it or make my meal free, which is what would have happened in the US. When I asked her if I could have a free coke for this incident, she said sure. I guess I had to ask for it, since they would never reimburse you for any trouble they cause. They just don't think like that.

Their mentality is one of neverending taking, leeching, and stinginess. Rock and I joked once that you'd never see a Filipino family giving out red envelope money like Chinese families do. lol No way. They are among the least giving, next to Russians.

An expat told me that the economic difference between Taiwan and the Philippines is this:

Taiwan = Low prices and high salaries
Philippines = High prices and low salaries

This is why the Philippines is so f***ed up. High prices and low salaries is a certain recipe for disaster and destitute poverty.
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Postby Taco » Wed May 30, 2012 4:41 am

Its hard generalize an entire country of people. As soon as you do, you'll find someone that doesn't fit the stereotype. Filipinos don't have much they can give but at least they take care of their own family members. Also, Filipinas do most of their giving back in the bedroom.
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Postby Winston » Wed May 30, 2012 5:16 am

Taco wrote:Its hard generalize an entire country of people. As soon as you do, you'll find someone that doesn't fit the stereotype. Filipinos don't have much they can give but at least they take care of their own family members. Also, Filipinas do most of their giving back in the bedroom.


No one denies that there are exceptions. But many people everywhere in the Philippines do fit what we say. The pattern is definitely there. And we know from experience.

In the US, no one tries to pickpocket or short-change me for example. So the argument that women use that "there are good and bad everywhere, it depends on who you meet" is a moot point and doesn't even apply here.
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Re: Filipinos - the unchristian Catholics

Postby davewe » Wed May 30, 2012 6:09 am

Winston wrote:
That's not true. You only hear about the bad Christians in the US, not the good ones. Most devout Christians in the US have strict morals and live by them, esp the Mormons.

You can't compare with Americans. Americans are raised with a conscience and the belief that lying is wrong. So at least they feel guilt, even if they choose wrong. Plus, in America I've never been cheated or scammed by petty things, or short changed to their advantage. American businesses reimburse you if they screw up, while Filipino businesses don't.



I am not nearly as anti-American as some people on this board are. Hell for that matter I don't even think all AW are terrible.

But it's utterly delusional to think that the U.S. is in any way a moral, ethical society. So I totally disagree. People lie through their teeth without a drop of guilt, crime in most cities is horrendous, ethics in government and business are nearly non-existent. And religion? The place is crawling with pedophile priests, sham faith healers, and TV preachers out for every dime some little old lady's got.

Perhaps we should start a new forum, "Happier Back Home."

In reality, America's been good to me in many many ways. But ethics and morality and religion - you must be kidding! At least in a third world country it's understandable why someone might cheat or steal to survive. In the U.S. we have millionaires and billionaires who'd cheat their mothers to gain more. They can't even explain why they need more.
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Re: Filipinos - the unchristian Catholics

Postby Jester » Wed May 30, 2012 8:18 am

fschmidt wrote:
davewe wrote:The hypocrisy is ours. We want women and cultures with traditional values. But we also want to get laid and get laid easily - and with the hottest girls. And that means a religious society where people break the religious rules.

There is no hypocrisy in the Old Testament. The Old Testament solution is stable marriage plus prostitution which addresses everyone's needs in a moral way. There is no society where most men can get laid easily for free, this is simply impossible. The only reason guys here can get laid easily in poor countries is because you are rich by comparison, but this will correct soon enough as Western countries go broke.


Never heard this before. Are you referring to the fact that fornication with a non-virgin is generally lawful?

Or the episode where one prophet happily visited what he thought was a prostitute while on a business trip?
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Postby Taco » Wed May 30, 2012 2:40 pm

Winston wrote:
Taco wrote:Its hard generalize an entire country of people. As soon as you do, you'll find someone that doesn't fit the stereotype. Filipinos don't have much they can give but at least they take care of their own family members. Also, Filipinas do most of their giving back in the bedroom.


No one denies that there are exceptions. But many people everywhere in the Philippines do fit what we say. The pattern is definitely there. And we know from experience.

In the US, no one tries to pickpocket or short-change me for example. So the argument that women use that "there are good and bad everywhere, it depends on who you meet" is a moot point and doesn't even apply here.


It might be a belief in social darwinism that causes this behavior. I do remember my friends filipina switching price tags at the store one day.

In China, people will try to rip you off because if their successful it just means their smarter than you are. In American, if you try to rip someone off it means you get the beating of your life and a bad reputation.
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Re: Filipinos - the unchristian Catholics

Postby fschmidt » Wed May 30, 2012 3:54 pm

Jester wrote:
fschmidt wrote:There is no hypocrisy in the Old Testament. The Old Testament solution is stable marriage plus prostitution which addresses everyone's needs in a moral way. There is no society where most men can get laid easily for free, this is simply impossible. The only reason guys here can get laid easily in poor countries is because you are rich by comparison, but this will correct soon enough as Western countries go broke.


Never heard this before. Are you referring to the fact that fornication with a non-virgin is generally lawful?

Or the episode where one prophet happily visited what he thought was a prostitute while on a business trip?


There are several stories about prostitutes in the Old Testament and none of them are negative. But I am especially referring to Proverbs. I guess they don't teach this stuff in Sunday school.
Following the Old Testament, not evil modern culture
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Postby xiongmao » Wed May 30, 2012 4:27 pm

Since I started my dating site I am losing faith with everybody. I worry about being on the same planet as these people.

> Also, Filipinas do most of their giving back in the bedroom.

LOL. I liked this a lot!
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Re: Filipinos - the unchristian Catholics

Postby Jester » Wed May 30, 2012 9:53 pm

fschmidt wrote:
Jester wrote:
fschmidt wrote:There is no hypocrisy in the Old Testament. The Old Testament solution is stable marriage plus prostitution which addresses everyone's needs in a moral way. There is no society where most men can get laid easily for free, this is simply impossible. The only reason guys here can get laid easily in poor countries is because you are rich by comparison, but this will correct soon enough as Western countries go broke.


Never heard this before. Are you referring to the fact that fornication with a non-virgin is generally lawful?

Or the episode where one prophet happily visited what he thought was a prostitute while on a business trip?


There are several stories about prostitutes in the Old Testament and none of them are negative. But I am especially referring to Proverbs. I guess they don't teach this stuff in Sunday school.


LOL, guess not.
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Re: Filipinos - the unchristian Catholics

Postby Jester » Wed May 30, 2012 9:55 pm

fschmidt wrote:
Jester wrote:
fschmidt wrote:There is no hypocrisy in the Old Testament. The Old Testament solution is stable marriage plus prostitution which addresses everyone's needs in a moral way. There is no society where most men can get laid easily for free, this is simply impossible. The only reason guys here can get laid easily in poor countries is because you are rich by comparison, but this will correct soon enough as Western countries go broke.


Never heard this before. Are you referring to the fact that fornication with a non-virgin is generally lawful?

Or the episode where one prophet happily visited what he thought was a prostitute while on a business trip?


There are several stories about prostitutes in the Old Testament and none of them are negative. But I am especially referring to Proverbs. I guess they don't teach this stuff in Sunday school.


Oh yeah I forgot - Rahab the harlot - in the bloodline of King David... and also in the bloodline of Jesus's stepdad Joseph.
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Postby Jester » Wed May 30, 2012 9:56 pm

xiongmao wrote:Since I started my dating site I am losing faith with everybody. I worry about being on the same planet as these people.


Care to elaborate?
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Re: Filipinos - The UnChristian Catholics

Postby publicduende » Wed May 30, 2012 11:26 pm

Twobrains wrote:http://mycultureblog.com/filipino-culture-and-values-the-unchristian-catholics

"Written by Hans Schreiber

Coming from a country where most people are Christians and where the morals of society is heavily influenced by Christian faith, but where faith in religion is close to nil, understanding Filipinos’ take on religion is quite the conundrum.

Filipinos of all ages are highly devoted to their religion. They wear crosses, talk of the love of God, print God’s words on posters and clothes, and go to church every Sunday. But you will hardly find a country in the world that is less Christian in actions.

The level of adultery, cheating, debauchery, lying, stealing, and murdering is extreme. Try to lend a Filipino money and see if you will ever get it back; try to offer a Filipino an option in life where there is an easy unjust way and the right way – never yet met a Filipino who will take the right way; try to find a Filipino who does not in his family have a great number of family members who have left wives and children and simply just moved on to the next victim; try to find a Filipino who will not abuse sick leaves for personal purposes because he believes it to be wrong (yes – it is stealing like anything else); try to find a Filipino who will consider his actions based on what Christianity sets as guidelines for decent behavior — I have yet to find one. Filipino culture and values are just beyond my understanding in this regard."

And he goes on... Very interesting perspective. The comments section has been spammed to death, so don't bother reading those.


The same can be said of most Latin American countries, absolutely packed with churches and self-professed devoted Catholics. And yet home to similar if not worse displays of inhumanity.
It comes as no surprise that both the Philippines and LatAm countries have something in common: Spaniard (occasionally Portuguese) rulers whose missionary priests used Christianity to enslave the natives' minds just as much as their military counterparts did with their rifles and laws. It never works well, when religion is used as a vehicle to command, enforce and maintain secular power. I am not here to judge the Filipinos, the Colombians or Brazilians, but all the less-charitable signs of institutionalised, deformed, over-ritualised religions are present in these countries. Think of uber-rich churches like Iglesia ni Kristo in the Phils, or some dodgy denominations in Brazil (don't remember then name, it's the one footballer Kaka and his girlfriend belong to). I'm sure one could find loads of clones all over LatAm.

And then there's another point. I've read and heard stories of family beating and cheating, stealing, lying etc. from India, Thailand, Indonesia, etc. All non-Christian countries.
Would it perhaps be that...it's extreme poverty, deep ignorance and desperation that drive human spirit to such acts? Perhaps all the sense of guilt about behaving as a poor Christian are set aside when all one see in his life is violence, deprivation and lack of life options that go beyond the thought of self preservation and giving in to primal instincts.
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Re: Filipinos - the unchristian Catholics

Postby publicduende » Wed May 30, 2012 11:33 pm

Winston wrote:
zboy1 wrote:Interestingly enough, all the things this Hans Schreiber describes about Filipinos perfectly describes Americans as well! In fact, I don't think there's a more hypocritical religious group than Christians in the United States. If Filipinos were truly God-fearing, there wouldn't be nearly the level of prostitution, sex, and general debauchery and corruption as there is in the Philippines. Those are not Christian values in the least...


That's not true. You only hear about the bad Christians in the US, not the good ones. Most devout Christians in the US have strict morals and live by them, esp the Mormons.

On the other hand, the average Filipino who calls themselves a Christian or Catholic is only good to their family. Other than that, they are shameless and have no real pride. They believe that lying is ok and sometimes even stealing. They have a Robin Hood mentality. No Christian believes that lying is ok. They know nothing about Christianity.

You can't compare with Americans. Americans are raised with a conscience and the belief that lying is wrong. So at least they feel guilt, even if they choose wrong. Plus, in America I've never been cheated or scammed by petty things, or short changed to their advantage. American businesses reimburse you if they screw up, while Filipino businesses don't.

One time at a hotel restaurant in the Philippines, I found a piece of metal in my spaghetti. Outraged, I told the waitress about it. But all she said was, "Are you ok?" She didn't bother to treat me something for it or make my meal free, which is what would have happened in the US. When I asked her if I could have a free coke for this incident, she said sure. I guess I had to ask for it, since they would never reimburse you for any trouble they cause. They just don't think like that.

Their mentality is one of neverending taking, leeching, and stinginess. Rock and I joked once that you'd never see a Filipino family giving out red envelope money like Chinese families do. lol No way. They are among the least giving, next to Russians.

An expat told me that the economic difference between Taiwan and the Philippines is this:

Taiwan = Low prices and high salaries
Philippines = High prices and low salaries

This is why the Philippines is so f***ed up. High prices and low salaries is a certain recipe for disaster and destitute poverty.


I have mentioned this on another post on the same thread, yet it won't hurt repeating it. What if these extremes were the effects, not the cause of poverty and destitution, and obviously not having much to do with embracing a specific religion?
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Postby MrPeabody » Thu May 31, 2012 1:39 am

I think there is compassion in Catholic countries, maybe more than in protestant countries obsessed with individualism. When I got a flat tire in Mexico after hitting a pothole, some Mexican men came along and put on the spare tire and then just left without asking for anything. Also, women in Catholic countries are more sensual, i.e. French, Italian, Spanish, Latin American, Brazilian, whereas Protestantism tends to kill sensuality. The Catholic Church has always encouraged great art and music. Of course, historically Mexicans were bitter for the Church’s support of the elites over the common people. I am also suspicious that we are not getting the full story because cultural Marxist anthropologists going back to the beginning of the 20th century have been promoting the line that the evil Christian religion abused the Indians and peasants. There is another side the story that the propagandized post 60s generation has never heard.
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