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The Pros and Cons of Taiwan: What other sites don't tell you

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.

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Postby eurobrat » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:22 am

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Last edited by eurobrat on Fri May 24, 2013 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Repatriate » Mon Jun 25, 2012 10:32 am

eurobrat wrote:Here's a guy who more or less agrees with Winston.

http://onpinestreet.com/2007/03/17/dating-in-taiwan/


I think there is some truth to both what Winston and Rock have said. I'm not trying to play safe middle man here but it's the truth.

I have seen way more foreign men with pretty awful looking and acting women throughout Asia than I have seen guys with hotties hanging off their arms. I always compare what the local men of the same age group have and it's always no contest each time. The locals win out every time which leads me to believe that most guys settle for leftover type women who have one issue or another and choose to date foreigners.

The thing about most asian countries is that local middle class and above men tend to be real picky too. Women fall out of that dating range fairly quickly because there are always better choices to move onto. It's not like in the U.S. where most men will settle for some atrocious fat bitch.

I believe Rock when he says most of his friends get married to local girls in TW though but what sort of girls are they is another question and a much more personal one.
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Postby Rock » Mon Jun 25, 2012 11:22 am

eurobrat wrote:I believe you, that's why I generally don't see that many Taiwanese girls on Asian dating sites.


Consider, the number of girls you see from a given country on foreign (ie catering to men outside their own country) oriented dating sites is strongly correlated with the country's standard of living. Also, there's a lot more Chinese, Filipinos, and Thais than Taiwanese. Taiwan is a small country with just 23 mn population.

Even in LatAm, I believe you don't see many girls from the richest country (Chile) on such sites. These days, Brazilians are pretty uncommon too I believe as the country has become a lot more prosperous as of late.
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Postby Rock » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:10 pm

Repatriate wrote:
eurobrat wrote:Here's a guy who more or less agrees with Winston.

http://onpinestreet.com/2007/03/17/dating-in-taiwan/


I think there is some truth to both what Winston and Rock have said. I'm not trying to play safe middle man here but it's the truth.

I have seen way more foreign men with pretty awful looking and acting women throughout Asia than I have seen guys with hotties hanging off their arms. I always compare what the local men of the same age group have and it's always no contest each time. The locals win out every time which leads me to believe that most guys settle for leftover type women who have one issue or another and choose to date foreigners.

The thing about most asian countries is that local middle class and above men tend to be real picky too. Women fall out of that dating range fairly quickly because there are always better choices to move onto. It's not like in the U.S. where most men will settle for some atrocious fat bitch.

I believe Rock when he says most of his friends get married to local girls in TW though but what sort of girls are they is another question and a much more personal one.


The guys I mentioned were often not my friends. Many were just acquaintances, friends of friends, or people I knew through work or business.

I tend to agree with what you say about western men across Asia. You often see them with unattractive women according to my taste. But in Taiwan, its been across the board with most concentrated in the middle area (probably 5-7s in most people's book and certainly better than what I see them with in Thailand or especially the PI). But I think its true almost anywhere you go including the west and Russia/CIS that the very best looking women you see (the ones who are 8-9s and might even be considered 10s by some) are usually going to be with their own kind. In fact, I think most girls, butt ugly to stunningly beautiful are usually going be with their own about anywhere you go.

As far as Taiwan is concerned, I've seen about everything among locals. Sometimes I see a very good looking guy dating a clearly below average girl. I've seen a few with women who looked like their mothers but they were out on a date. And I've known local guys who were chronic players who dated assorted hotties but then chose a plain Jane to settle down with in marriage. And of course, I've seen it the other way around - hotties with average or nerdy looking guys. Anything is possible. I supposed that if Winston was able to hit on 10,000 attractive Taiwan girls, he might even get lucky one day. Nah, that one's impossible, lol.

Going back to the case of foreigners in Taiwan, one example of a guy I remember from just 2-3 years ago is a short but handsome Jewish guy from Manhattan in his mid-30s (friend of my American friend in Shanghai I posted about before). This guy spent about a year in Taiwan to learn some Mandarin and was very picky. He intimately dated several 19-22 yr. old girls who would probably rate 7-8 and perhaps even 9 in some cases on local looks scale. Two or three of them became his gfs for awhile. I will add that the guy also lived in Berlin for a few months and got an extremely good looking local gf there too. But after he returned to Manhattan, he suddenly found himself chronically dateless. It seemed none of the NYC girls could accept his 5'6" stature.

One other example I wanna mention is a guy who used to be my neighbor. He was also short and mid-30s but not at all good looking - a very plain and mild mannered Brit. He would be considered below average in the west. He met his Taiwanese gf online (something like YM or Yahoo personals, how weird is that) and corresponded with her a few months. They fell for each other so he came to Taiwan to to live with her and find a job. His gf - 22, tall, innocent and pure, light skinned, and quite good looking in my book. I reckon most Taiwan men would give her a good 7 or 6 at worst. This guy definitely was batting out of his league and she was not into him for his money (he didn't have any and made English teacher wages as an editor) or his passport (when they engaged, the plan was to stay in Taiwan long term). Would he have done better in PI or Thailand? I highly doubt it as he was looking for something serious. I suspect China would have been tough for him too as he didn't speak any Chinese.
Last edited by Rock on Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:20 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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Postby Rock » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:13 pm

eurobrat wrote:I don't know who to believe, is their a 3rd party opinion we can get an opinion from?


What Winston says I claim vs. what I've actually posted or said to others are 2 signficantly different things. So please refer directly to my posts to get my side, not what he claims I say.

I don't speak for Winston so don't let Winston speak for me. That's only fair, right?
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Postby eurobrat » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:52 pm

Wait here's another interesting quote:

"By the same token, do not think Taiwanese are a bunch of naive virgins ripe for the taking. Taiwanese females can spot a loser at a thousand paces just as well as anyone else can. If you couldn't get a date in the States, you probably won't get one here either."

http://www.michaelturton.com/Taiwan/social.html
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Postby Rock » Mon Jun 25, 2012 1:37 pm

eurobrat wrote:Wait here's another interesting quote:

"By the same token, do not think Taiwanese are a bunch of naive virgins ripe for the taking. Taiwanese females can spot a loser at a thousand paces just as well as anyone else can. If you couldn't get a date in the States, you probably won't get one here either."

http://www.michaelturton.com/Taiwan/social.html


As far as dating and mating go, I think the specs for what would be considered a loser of a prospect in Taiwan are significantly different than in the States. The sweet spot is for guys who are considered non-datable in the USA but not Taiwan. Some examples:

- In Taiwan, you can be 5'8" or even shorter and still do fine. It's a much bigger challenge in States for the vertically challenged.

- In Taiwan, you can be a decent nice guy and be appreciated for that. Just see where that gets you in USA.

- In Taiwan, you can be slim or even skinny and not get criticized for your lack of muscles. Lot's of American girls expect beach bods or muscle heads.

- In Taiwan, loyalty is often appreciated and rewarded by girls. In the US, women take advantage of guys who treat them too well.

- In Taiwan, girls are usually not looking to take advantage of their bfs or husbands. They tend to stick faithfully to their men. We all know how that works in the States.

- In Taiwan, you don't need tattoos and majority of guys don't have them. In States, if you don't have them, you look pretty square and boring.

Unfortunately, there are still plenty of guys who would be considered losers and/or un-datable in both places for various reasons. So if you fit that, better go PI or somewhere else for you HA experience.
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Postby eurobrat » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:08 pm

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Last edited by eurobrat on Fri May 24, 2013 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Rock » Mon Jun 25, 2012 2:18 pm

eurobrat wrote:Well I don't know why Winston's having such a bad experience in Taiwan then.



Read the penultimate sentence of my last post and then reflect on what types of guys might fit into that category.
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Postby Fenix » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:43 pm

Winston, here's an idea: GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!!!!!

You are not even improving yourself (you're not, so don't even go there!). You are 39 going on 52. You don't look young. You have no fashion sense. You are clueless when it comes to women. You have an inept way of attracting ladyboys. Any decent looking foreigner (even Asian) that is of average height of the US will do better than you, Winston. Point blank.

It's funny that you are pushing 40 and you have no idea how to dress! At least you look good in dark colors. Pink is not working out lmao. You need to stop wearing those hideous looking shirts~
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Postby Falcon » Fri Jun 29, 2012 4:08 am

It should be pretty obvious to anyone who's spent time in East Asia that Sinosphere peoples (Chinese, Taiwanese, Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese, Singaporean) are oftentimes:

- Suspicious of strangers and outsiders, and do not like talking to them
- Do not like being asked questions about themselves, and avert eye contact
- Aggressive, or even ruthless, when it comes to business and making money; many are workaholics
- Clannish, cliquish

About half the people you meet in Sinosphere countries will be like that, although it's a completely different story when they are interacting within their own social circles. The other half is very easy to approach, friendly, and eager to meet new people, like many Latinos and Europeans.

You generally won't see this in Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Burma, and especially the Philippines.
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Postby Winston » Sat Jun 30, 2012 11:48 pm

Here are some new pros and cons I added or expanded upon:

Pros

- The Chinese food is very good in taste, quality and variety. Taiwanese have a passion for food and live for eating. In fact, it's one of their primary interests besides making money. Some restaurants are a rip off, sure, but it is very easy to find high quality delicious food at cheap prices. High quality cheap food is abundant everywhere. Taiwan is also a vegetarian's paradise, as vegetarian eating joints are everywhere - you can usually find one every few blocks where food is sold.

Cons


- In Taiwan, there is an inverse relationship between a woman's beauty and friendliness, as well as her age and friendliness. In simple terms, the more attractive a girl is, the less friendly and open she is, and vice versa. Likewise, the older a woman is, the more friendly and easy to talk to she is, and vice versa. This just plain sucks, because what it means is that the women you desire most will be the most unavailable and unapproachable. Thus, for men who love beautiful women, this works against them.

- The social environment and atmosphere in Taiwan is very stagnant and sterile, similar to Seattle, Washington (aka "The Seattle Freeze"). There's simply no real "social energy". It doesn't "flow" naturally or openly. Instead, it is very cliquish, lacking energy, fun, excitement, stimulation, etc. The whole atmosphere in Taiwan feels way too conservative and prudish. Most young foreigners I've met in Taiwan have concurred, remarking how much more fun, wild and full of action Thailand is in comparison. Taiwan is basically a highly conservative, inhibited and repressed culture, which is reflected in everything in it, and explains why people have to act super innocent in order to fit in (in fact many white guys in Taiwan act a lot more Taiwanese and feminine than White or masculine). The foreigners who like Taiwan the most tend to be reserved quiet feminine types. The only people that talk to strangers freely in a direct, straightforward manner are the elderly/middle age folks (similar to the US). In fact, old people and young people in Taiwan are like a different species, oddly enough. What this means is that if you are seeking fun, excitement, wild times, adventure, thrills, energy, action, passionate people, etc. you will likely find Taiwan to be boring, sterile, too inhibited and devoid of "energy". As a result, you will feel like you aren't "truly alive" in an environment where you can't "come out of your shell and be your real self". (Note: If you've never lived outside of Taiwan, you might not know what kind of "energy" I'm talking about. You'd have to spend time in Russia, Latin America, Eastern/Southern Europe, or Pattaya/Bangkok in Thailand to know what I'm referring to.)

- Taiwan is a workaholic culture (like America). Most people live to work and make money, and have no other purpose in life. They have no ability to create a higher purpose of their own. Taiwanese commonly work 6 or 7 days a week. What this means is that if you are not a workaholic and you live for other things besides work (e.g. freedom, adventure, new experiences) you will not be on the same wavelength as everyone else, and will thus feel somewhat alienated in that while everyone is always busy being a busybee, you are not. Moreover, it is hard to find people with free time to hang out with. It's mostly foreigners and young Taiwanese that go out for fun, however, the young Taiwanese are very cliquish and don't like to interact with foreigners much. For some odd reason, the ones I know don't have much free time, but the ones I see out having fun on weekends are never the ones I know... whatever... maybe it's another case of Murphy's Law.

- The weather is hot and humid most of the year, except for Winter, since Taiwan is located in the Asian tropic region. The humidity makes the heat much worse, since it causes excess perspitation and makes your body work harder to cool down, which is not healthy. So if you don't like hot weather, you won't like Taiwan's weather. This especially affects creative intellectual types, such as writers, artists, musicians and philosophers. Such types, which are accustomed to thinking in a deeper zone or wavelength than most people, have difficulty concentrating and getting into their "zone" when it's hot and humid. This is why, not surprisingly, the greatest writers, artists, and composers throughout history have generally came from colder cooler climates (e.g. Europe) rather than from hot tropical humic climates.
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Postby Winston » Sun Jul 01, 2012 12:54 am

eurobrat wrote:Well I don't know why Winston's having such a bad experience in Taiwan then.

Maybe he's not trying hard enough or he's trying too hard.


No that's a copout. There's no such thing as trying too hard. If you could not try and get what you want, then everyone would do that. It's an illogical statement.

The "not trying hard enough" is also a copout. Anyone can raise the bar like that. Amway can claim that you are not trying hard enough or following the system if you fail at their MLM pyramid scheme.

I can use that same copout if you aren't getting any dates in the states too.

But use your common sense for a moment. You said before that my insights into America are very accurate. If so, then that raises the probability that I'm right about Taiwan too.

Anyway, I've prepared a long response to your earlier request in this thread. I'll post it later.

Rock wrote:What Winston says I claim vs. what I've actually posted or said to others are 2 signficantly different things. So please refer directly to my posts to get my side, not what he claims I say.

I don't speak for Winston so don't let Winston speak for me. That's only fair, right?


If that's so, then explain, esp in that other thread about the 10 logical reasons why you are wrong, why what I said about your claims are wrong. The fact that you haven't, indicated that my summation of your claims are accurate.

I'm not stupid. It is obvious that your claim is that most average guys can easily pick up girls in Taiwan or get romantic/intimate with girls easily, in the most conservative prudish country in the world.

Heck, when we were in my parents' hometown of Beigan, you told me to approach that girl at the tea shop, while you stood back and watched. While I talked to the girl at the front, the guy behind her was pissed and annoyed that we were socializing with her, which is improper. So he yelled "Are you here to play around or buy something?" as though a simple tea stand should be "all business" and no flirting/socializing. You even laughed about it later. If that's not uptight and prudish, then I don't know what is. Maybe because I'm Asian, I'm not allowed to be outgoing in Taiwan? Only white guys are? f**k that!

Besides, what do you mean by "doing well" in Taiwan? When you say that a guy does well, do you mean that he can pick up girls any time? That he can get an attractive quality girlfriend easily? What if a guy gets a fat ugly girlfriend? Does that count as doing well?

Overall, I see no logical reason why most average guys can either get girls in the US or Taiwan. Neither is an easy place. Both have many hang ups. My retired psychologist friend even said that socially, Taiwan is not much different than the US. I agree. He is an expert in psychology.

What qualifications, skills or talents do you have, Rock, that puts you above average guys in terms of credibility, authority or accuracy?
Last edited by Winston on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:04 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby Winston » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:00 am

Phx wrote:Winston, here's an idea: GO TO ANOTHER COUNTRY!!!!!

You are not even improving yourself (you're not, so don't even go there!). You are 39 going on 52. You don't look young. You have no fashion sense. You are clueless when it comes to women. You have an inept way of attracting ladyboys. Any decent looking foreigner (even Asian) that is of average height of the US will do better than you, Winston. Point blank.

It's funny that you are pushing 40 and you have no idea how to dress! At least you look good in dark colors. Pink is not working out lmao. You need to stop wearing those hideous looking shirts~


I am. I am eating healthy and corresponding with girls from China. Don't take out your insecurities on me.

Your statements aren't really true. I have good fashion sense. Ask women. They like taking me shopping with them, because I am good at picking out what looks good on them, and mixing matching colors. When a girl asks me "Does this look good on me?" I don't just say yes or not. I give REASONS why or why it doesn't look good on her. Women respect my fashion sense when it comes to helping them pick out clothes.

I'm not stupid. I know nice clothes when I see them. Don't mischaracterize me. It's just that a lot of nice clothes look weird and abnormal on me. You can take clothes off a hot guy, put them on me, and it would look weird. My problem is that my tastes and preferences don't match my looks.

No one says I look 50. Stop lying and exaggerating.

I only attracted one ladyboy. I have no history of attracting them. Ladyboys are friendly with everyone anyway. Not me in particular.

I am far better at picking up, flirting and charming girls than most men are. I am 100 percent sure of it. A lot of guys have seen me do it and said that they wish they were as charming as me. I have personality and charm going for me. You even saw it yourself in that video of me in Angeles.

Recently, my expat friend introduced me to his niece, an American girl from Maryland. I showed her around. She told him that I was very intelligent and charming, but that the biggest downside to me was my pot belly.

In Taiwan, girls like it when guys wear pink. Taste is subjective.

One advice I give people is: DO NOT hang around people who make you feel insecure, make you doubt yourself, and make you feel emotionally drained and deflated. Hang out with people who uplift and empower you. That's one of the keys to happiness. Therefore, if I took my own advice, I wouldn't hang around you.
Last edited by Winston on Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Winston » Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:07 am

Falcon wrote:It should be pretty obvious to anyone who's spent time in East Asia that Sinosphere peoples (Chinese, Taiwanese, Korean, Japanese, Vietnamese, Singaporean) are oftentimes:

- Suspicious of strangers and outsiders, and do not like talking to them
- Do not like being asked questions about themselves, and avert eye contact
- Aggressive, or even ruthless, when it comes to business and making money; many are workaholics
- Clannish, cliquish

About half the people you meet in Sinosphere countries will be like that, although it's a completely different story when they are interacting within their own social circles. The other half is very easy to approach, friendly, and eager to meet new people, like many Latinos and Europeans.

You generally won't see this in Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Burma, and especially the Philippines.


What do you mean half? If it was half, then it'd be easy, if one out of two girls made eye contact and smiled at you and was approachable. Come on now.

I think you mean that young attractive women are closed, while older over the hill women are more open and talkative. Right? See my point above about the inverse relationship between beauty and friendliness, youth and openness, in Taiwan.
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