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10 Reasons Why Taiwan Sucks For Social Life, Dating and Fun

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.

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Postby celery2010 » Sat Jan 05, 2013 7:05 am

That's just an excuse and you know it.

Note: I said VISIT NOT MOVE

It's 162 MILES AWAY.

It is only marginally more difficult for you to visit Xiamen than it is to visit Taichung or Taipei.
China is barely 3-4 hours away for you, no farther than going from Los Angeles to Las Vegas.

I would understand if you had to go great distances, like from the United States to the Philippines. THAT would be a big, costly trip. For you it should be cheap and you even speak the language. No reason why you shouldn't visit, and it's not like it's gonna take a long time to visit or anything.


1. Correspond with girls online in China in specific location (at least 10 girls).
2. Setup a week to go visit them and make appointments to see all 10 girls.
3. Write forum or blog post detail what happened and how successful the outcome of your trip was.

I recommend you visit more 2nd tier and 3rd tier cities, like say Wuhan, Chengdu and Guangzhou, although really any location will work. I reccommend you try your luck online first and see where you get the best responses and decide from there.

Honestly i think you won't believe the results. You really have nothing to lose by VISITING, not moving there.
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Postby Winston » Sat Jan 05, 2013 11:15 am

Celery,
I know what you're talking about. Like I said, it's hard for me to travel with peace of mind when I have things to get done from two years ago.

Momopi,
You said that you lost a girlfriend once because you refused to move to Taipei because you couldn't handle the pollution there. Come on now. There must be more to it than that. That sounds like a convenient excuse. Why don't you fit in there? lol

Even I have no problem with pollution there. It isn't that bad, and you are a tall strong guy.

Hey everyone,
Check out this video of me and Rock watching girls walk by in the street below from our hotel in Taichung, Taiwan. If you want to know what Rock sounds like, you can hear his voice here. Don't the people below look so open and approachable? Don't they look so aware and friendly and easy to make eye contact with? lol. Don't they look so stiff, like cold uptight soulless zombies? lol

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyLi5d2Gl_g[/youtube]

Vimeo version:
https://vimeo.com/56740911
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Postby Winston » Sat Jan 05, 2013 2:14 pm

Let me show you all how f***ing impossible it is to get a Taiwanese girl to meet you from a dating site. After writing many messages to this girl on OkCupid, she finally replies. When I ask her why it's so difficult to meet any Taiwanese female from a dating site, she explains why below.

Hey sorry for my late reply, Been so busy for the Xmas performance n the final exam, I'm an Englush teacher in TW. Have been to many countries so far. Used to studied in Aust n worked there for about two years. Been to LA for ten days trip but not very familir wiz the US. Studied in LOndon for about a month then ten days trip in Europe, etc. Anyway I luv to travel n maybe I have more conflicting feeling towards TW.haha I'm wondering how come u have the question about the dating website as u r working on part of the kinda website, rnt u? Sorry if I misunderstood about what ur doing wiz ur job... well if u ask me, probably I would say ppl here are not really for frds. Some bad news about the dating sites on TV news really make ppl feel disappointed n scared. That's why I rarely reply. I only met one person 4 years ago. Then never again. Mostly talked few times on skype then gone. It's hard I think. To be honest, till now I still wonder if ur honest wiz what u wrote or not lol! :) Anyway thank u for the Xmas wish! Merry Xmas to u too. If u like, u can add my FB, but I rarely reply, too busy lately.....


As you can see, she says she does not like to meet guys from dating sites in person. WTF?! If so, then why is she on a dating site? WTF?! Why is it so God damn difficult? Why so many f***ing hang ups?! How is this any better than dating in America? WTF is Rock smoking?! Why does he always say the exact OPPOSITE of what the truth is?! WTF?!

Celery, WTF?! How about YOU write her on OkCupid and see if you can get her to meet up with you? Why is it so f***ing hard to get a TW girl to meet? And how the hell does that make Taiwan a great place for dating?! WTF are people smoking?! So many f***ing liars!
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.

Don't forget my HA Grand Ebook and Dating Sites!

"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
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Postby momopi » Sat Jan 05, 2013 5:54 pm

Winston wrote:Momopi,
You said that you lost a girlfriend once because you refused to move to Taipei because you couldn't handle the pollution there. Come on now. There must be more to it than that. That sounds like a convenient excuse. Why don't you fit in there? lol


http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... nce#109752

"In 2007-2008 alone I flew to Asia 6 times to court my ex-fiance and she demanded that I must move back to TPE for our relationship to work, because she ain't moving to California. I declined and that was it. I moved on and she moved on."

http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... u&start=90

"Back in 1970s, after my grandfather lost the farm (apple orchid) in Nantou and the factory where my father worked in Changhua closed, we moved to Taipei to start over. It was a terrible time for me as I was unaccustomed to the city pollution. I was sick all the time and had to visit the doctor almost every week."

"they (my parents) took me to the doctors, and when traditional medicine and western medicine didn’t help, they took the lesson from the mother of Menicus and we packed our bags & moved to the cleaner coastal cities of Orange County, California. When I first arrived, my elementary school teacher commented that I looked like a malnourished Vietnamese boat refugee. Thank goodness my parents didn’t stay in Taipei to rant; otherwise I’d have been royally screwed."


http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... ?p=113411&

"Coming from a rural background in Changhua, I don't mind living in rural towns. However most of the outdoor activities that I like are coastal, so that's a limiting factor."


1. I did not just "lose a girlfriend". That was my ex-fiance that I invested 1.5 years and 6 trips to Asia for.
2. I flew to Asia 6 times for her and she would not come here even once for me, and refused to move to California (she'd be giving up her friends, family, and career in TW).
3. My childhood memories of Taipei was being sick every week and going to the doctors every week to get poked by needles.
4. I refused to move back to Taipei and we parted ways.
5. In retrospect perhaps I should have looked for a compromise, such as moving to Yilan, but what's done is done.
6. Taipei is not a coastal town. I prefer coastal suburbs to cities. To me, things like local environment, population density, proximity to the beach, traffic, pollution levels, air quality, etc. are more important than "people".


Winston wrote:Even I have no problem with pollution there. It isn't that bad, and you are a tall strong guy.


1. I wouldn't be "tall and strong" if I had stayed in Taipei instead of moving to California.

2. In your own words:

http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... tion#97319

"Why do you imply that I should live in a city, where cement, traffic, stress, pollution, and commercialism dominate"

http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... n&start=45
Image


3. Just as you didn't tolerate Angeles City pollution well, I didn't tolerate Taipei pollution well. You know, I could get higher paying jobs in LA, but do you think I'd want to breath this air:
Image

And drive through this every day in the morning:
Image

And drive through this every day at night:
Image


4. Similarly, do you think I want to deal with this in Taipei?

Image
Image
Image


5. What I want, is this:

(This picture is actually taken near where I live now)
Update: OK, looks like http://cdnfiles.hdrcreme.com/26361/medi ... fornia.jpg got removed. :(

Image

...or this in Yilan might do as well:
Image
Image


6. Let me recap. What I want:

* Lower population density (suburbs or rural towns)
* Clean air
* Clean water
* Less traffic
* Less pollution
* Proximity to ocean, beach, or at least a big lake suitable for water sports (swimming, snorkeling, fishing, etc)



Winston wrote:They are an anomaly. Most of the world is not like Taiwan at all.


Most of the world is not like any specific country. However if you were to believe that "most of the world" is open and friendly vs. TW, then why aren't you in "most of the world" ? Or, how about this, China has 19% of the world's population and your experience may indicate that the people there would be more open to you than TW. How far is TW to China on the map? It's almost like, flying from US to Mexico or Canada.


Winston wrote:The group smiles in your photos Momopi, look fake and repressed. They don't look open at all. It's hard to put into words what I mean. Some things are difficult to describe in words.


They're smiles from reserved people who knows "shame" and value of "face", somewhat less likely to use you as an ATM machine.


Winston wrote:If I were in Russia now, I would be very different. I would be fearless and casanova-like with girls, because the environment there ALLOWS me to be who I am, as I've explained before. As I've said all along, it's all about LOCATION, LOCATION, LOCATION.
Therefore, I haven't really changed. I'm just in a totally different world.


So, why aren't you in Russia, where you can be fearless and Casanova -ish?



Winston wrote:Let me show you all how f***ing impossible it is to get a Taiwanese girl to meet you from a dating site. After writing many messages to this girl on OkCupid, she finally replies. When I ask her why it's so difficult to meet any Taiwanese female from a dating site, she explains why below.


Do you see me ever use a dating site?

I sent you information about a speed dating even in Taipei where you could've meet 50-60 girls in-person. The event is specific to people with oversea experience, as in those who have lived/studied/worked abroad. The girls are all there, in person for the purpose of meeting and talking to you. Why did you choose to stay home and use online dating sites instead?
Last edited by momopi on Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby keepingitreal » Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:27 pm

Dude, I've read the conversation between you and momopi. looks like you're driving yourself nuts on that island. get the f**k off that miserable place man. it's having negative impact on you. Your rants are right, but that's not the f***ing point now, don't you get it? Because you ain't doing shit about it. If you ain't doing shit, then why don't you just move?

Your books...it's been years. I'd move it somewhere else or simply give up if I were you.
Your parents...Guess what, I just moved out and getting my own apartment. With my shaky job that might fire me anytime, and a shitty save up, I still got bigger balls than you when it comes to dealing with my folks. Perhaps like Rock said, deep down inside, you're more asian than many asians here, including myself.
Last edited by keepingitreal on Sun Jan 06, 2013 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby keepingitreal » Sun Jan 06, 2013 2:29 pm

and btw momopi, where you currently live, just wondering?
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Postby momopi » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:28 pm

keepingitreal wrote:and btw momopi, where you currently live, just wondering?


I'm in Irvine, just north of Newport Beach & Laguna Beach.
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Postby De » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:55 pm

I also have to agree with all of Winston's points, but to a lesser degree. Everyone here is pointing out Winston's age, a middle age guy. The main reason for his problems dealing with young and attractive taiwanese girls, and whatnot.

But I have to disagree. I'm 22, fit and many taiwanese people say I'm handsome. I might not be the tallest guy around, but I'm a average height. And I'm a Overseas Chinese also, from South America.

So living in Taiwan has been very hard. People here, as Winston mentioned, don't flirt. It's so awkward to try to flirt with them. Or even if they try to flirt with you, you don't even feel it. I've been with a few Taiwanese girls and it has been OK to say the least, but also, as Winston mentioned, I met them through friends, and meeting young hot and attractive Taiwanese girls through friends has its limits. More when I don't hang out with people that party hard.

I'm more of a thinker and as above posters mentioned, I'm also an introvert. I prefer to read or have meaningful conversations. But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy social gatherings. I can be the soul of a hangout too. But that really depends on the people. It's usually more between foreigners, with Taiwanese, idk... it;s hard to have real fun with them. It's just superficial fun. Maybe it is the language barrier?

It's such a shame to see pretty girls having a bad time with their boyfriends. Eating, walking and not even holding hands or looking at each other. NOT EVEN TALKING! They just play with their phones.

It's such a shame to see pretty girls hanging alone, but because of what Winston has already detailed described, we cannot meet them or establish any kind of relationship.

Taiwan really sucks for romance and social life.

Unless you are just one out of the millions, you are going to have a bad time in Taiwan.
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Postby momopi » Sun Jan 06, 2013 5:57 pm

De wrote:I also have to agree with all of Winston's points, but to a lesser degree. Everyone here is pointing out Winston's age, a middle age guy. The main reason for his problems dealing with young and attractive Taiwanese girls, and whatnot.
But I have to disagree. I'm 22, fit and many Taiwanese people say I'm handsome. I might not be the tallest guy around, but I'm a average height. And I'm a Overseas Chinese also, from South America.
So living in Taiwan has been very hard. People here, as Winston mentioned, don't flirt. It's so awkward to try to flirt with them. Or even if they try to flirt with you, you don't even feel it. I've been with a few Taiwanese girls and it has been OK to say the least, but also, as Winston mentioned, I met them through friends, and meeting young hot and attractive Taiwanese girls through friends has its limits. More when I don't hang out with people that party hard.
I'm more of a thinker and as above posters mentioned, I'm also an introvert. I prefer to read or have meaningful conversations. But that doesn't mean I don't enjoy social gatherings. I can be the soul of a hangout too. But that really depends on the people. It's usually more between foreigners, with Taiwanese, idk... it;s hard to have real fun with them. It's just superficial fun. Maybe it is the language barrier?
It's such a shame to see pretty girls having a bad time with their boyfriends. Eating, walking and not even holding hands or looking at each other. NOT EVEN TALKING! They just play with their phones.
It's such a shame to see pretty girls hanging alone, but because of what Winston has already detailed described, we cannot meet them or establish any kind of relationship.
Taiwan really sucks for romance and social life.
Unless you are just one out of the millions, you are going to have a bad time in Taiwan.



Statistically speaking, extroverts account for 2/3 to 3/4 to 1/3 of the population, vs. introverts account for 1/4 to 1/3 of the population. But this is a black and white view on things and does not consider those who straddle in the middle. A common example of extrovert vs introvert is Steve Jobs vs. Steve Wozniak. While the two did make a great team at one point, ultimately their personalities proved incompatible.

But this isn't the point of the discussion. This is not about introverts vs extroverts, age discrimination, looks, the shoes that you wear (yes women do look at your shoes), and so on. This is not even about Winston's lack of success or his incompatibilities in TW, or what TW girls are like this and that.

What this is about, is the 2 options for Winston:

Option A: Stay in TW, be miserable, and write rants about how bad the place is for the 6th running year.

Option B: Go to a place that is better for him, so he can write "hey country XYZ is so much better than TW!"
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Postby Twobrains » Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:24 pm

Hey Winston - your views have provoked some reaction on Rooshvforum today: http://www.rooshvforum.com/thread-7428- ... #pid344062
"As long as you make an identity for yourself out of the pain, you cannot become free of it." Eckhart Tolle
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Reposted Here

Postby Rock » Wed Jan 09, 2013 3:28 pm

I didn't read the proceeding threads. But I gotta say, my past experience agrees with much to most of what this respondent has written! Perhaps I will go thru it point by point to elaborate a bit later and highlight the areas of disagreement if I get the tie and inclination.

Notice, even tho he agrees with quite a few of Winston's points, he shows things from a different perspective.

Taiwan can be a great place for certain guys to date attractive women they couldn't get back home in spite of all the idiosyncrasies that might exist there. But there also will be a class of guys who, even if they are are good looking and foreign, will get hung-up on these idiosyncrasies and just carry a negative attitude which generally doesn't vibe well with the locals (surprise surprise).

RE: Taipei, Taiwan
I read this thread from start and it also sold me about a potentially great little city, which is surprisingly, not very well covered here. Btw, here's another perspective on Taiwan from Winston Wu. Warnings, they are not positives and we all know, the reception and vibe one gets from any given place is a combination of both the place, the people and social dynamics there as well as the person visiting and going there. So here's the perspective of an older, Asian American.

10 Reasons Taiwan is not good for social life, fun, romance
http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/viewt...hp?t=17214

Taiwanese - Cold, Unfriendly, Inhuman, No Eye Contact
http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/viewt...hp?t=13779

What are you guys thoughts on what Winston wrote about Taiwan and the social life aspects of living there?
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Soma Offline
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Post: #54
RE: Taipei, Taiwan
His #1 con of Taiwan is:

Quote:Hard to find good Western food outside the big cities, especially Mexican or Italian food. Since Mexican food is a favorite of most Americans, it's depriving not to have it in Taiwan.


I've never heard of the author before, but that certainly doesn't inspire my confidence in his opinions.
I can't have sex with your personality, and I can't put my penis in your college degree, and I can't shove my fist in your childhood dreams, so why are you sharing all this information with me?
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RE: Taipei, Taiwan
Depends on the city, language skills, looks, dress and confidence.

Ill give it a shot....

1. It is very hard to meet people, as they are not open with strangers but very closed in nature. Social interaction is usually restricted within closed exclusive cliques. - [b][b]TRUE, but people are very friendly and will help you. Case in point, was lost walking down a street. Some dude on a motorcycle stopped and tried to help me. Compared to Thailand, I would say the people are slightly less friendly initially, but very friendly after the first 1-2 minutes. No ladyboys, hookers or dirty beggars either.
[/b]

2. The only appropriate way to meet people is to be introduced through friends or groups, or have a connecting routine such as school, work or organized activity. [b]FALSE- Clubs/bars/streets/restaurants/streetfood/MRT are all places to meet girls. Easy of pick-up is better than China worse than Thailand. Overall girl quality is better than both though (IMO). But daytime, it can be quite tough day-gaming[/b]

3. Young adults in Taiwan are painfully shy, insecure, nonassertive, and lack confidence and social skills (especially females)- [b]TRUE- Girls are submissive and respect men. Girls will never openly reject you. They will save face and continue to talk to you even if they have a BF. They will excuse themselves and minimize a scene. Pretty weird coming from the States Nightlife. Dudes are very friendly and would probably be lumped into the BETA category. They are very friendly for the most part. Abudance mentality, maybe?[/b]

4. If you like meeting girls, or are seeking a date or girlfriend, there are a multitude of major obstacles against you.--FALSE

a) First, Taiwanese females simply do not like being introduced to male strangers (unless they are desperate, but if that's the case, then they are likely older and/or unattractive). Instead, they prefer to meet guys through the clique of friends that they grew up with, or the clique at their school or work. So if you didn't grow up in their "circle", then you are pretty much "out". And if you are "out", the bad news, as you might have guessed, is that their "cliques" are NOT inclusive at all. ---FALSE, taiwanese people are very friendly and interested in foreigners and where they come from

b) Second, Taiwanese people are reluctant to introduce females for some reason, probably because their females are not comfortable with it (or they are too picky). Although Taiwanese often like to joke about introducing a single female to a single male, they rarely follow through with it. In this regard, they are "all talk and no action". However, even if you are introduced to a female, suffice to say, females who need to be "introduced" tend to not be attractive or even fun to hang out with. TRUE- all action depends on the dude. If you like a girl, you go up and say hi to her. Proximity, smile, and #-close. Not much different than thailand. Clubs/making out is a bit more liberal when drinking, due to minimal prostitution.

c) Third, Taiwanese young females are not very open or relaxed at all. They are uptight, stiff and closed, as well as painfully shy. And they are also very insecure, fearful and lack confidence. Thus they are not even comfortable with meeting guys. Such traits are huge obstacles to single heterosexual males no doubt, but unfortunately, these are the usual traits of Taiwanese females. There is even a social rule in Taiwan that "girls don't talk to strangers, especially male strangers". ---TRUE, thats why you introduce yourself. Say that you are visiting from XXX. Ask them if they are students. Where are they going? Become a friend. Bonding 101...

d) Fourth, to make matters worse, modern Taiwanese females have difficult personalities and many hang ups. They will drop a guy for the smallest things at the drop of a hat. They are very judgmental, cold, unromantic, and act like flaky divas. Materialism has corrupted and spoiled them, making them more and more like American girls now. Deep down, they are childish and have terrible communication skills. Older generation Taiwanese often complain that young girls mumble and speak too fast, and are hard to understand. ---TRUE, but the taiwanese girls are very feminine. If you are a broke dude with no fund, goodbye. Status/Money and Class are interchangeable iin Asia. Girls need it for face... to show their friends and family. Not quite as bad as Western Girls tho.

e) Fifth, to make things worse, in the few nightclubs and discos that exist in Taiwan, guys always outnumber girls. Every girl is with a closed group of friends, male date, or "Jimmy" which is a male friend in her clique that shields her from outside strangers. This of course, pits the numerical odds against you. As in the US, there are many guys competing for a few girls. But these girls are not even open to talking strangers, as already mentioned. ---TRUE, thats why you go in the beginning of the night and lock down girls when dudes are sober and not grinding/annoying every hot girl. Hot girl's attention has limited timespan. Come on people, its not a grocery store! Things in demand fly off the shelves quickly

Moreover, even if you do find a partner in Taiwan, still, your options are limited in that you are essentially "taking what you can get" (aka "settling") rather than having a wide array of choices. Unless of course, you have low standards. ---BULLSHIT, unless you have no game, no looks, and no language. If you have one of the 3, its doable.

Now, this might sound bad, but it's true: Taiwanese females don't become open and friendly with strangers until they reach middle age (OR the age of 21 years old when they can go nightclubbing) - at which time they are no longer desirable and are most likely taken as well.(FALSE- they age 10x better than Asian-American girls or white/latin girls)

This is a classic case of Murphy's Law: When they are young and desirable, they are not open or friendly with strangers and not easy to meet at all. But when they are no longer young or desirable (and either taken or desperate if not) then they start to become friendly and more sociable with strangers. I know that might sound bad, but it's true. (If that offends anyone, then I apologize. No offense was intended. But please remember, I didn't make things the way they are. So please don't blame the messenger.)

5. The Taiwanese psyche is completely dominated by FEAR and GUILT. As a result of abusive psychological conditioning, Taiwanese emotions are suppressed and internalized. They are taught not to express themselves, but to be humble, submissive and obedient. ---TRUE, family unit is valued above individual. Kids are in school till 5pm, then go to tutoring till 8pm. Its like this in Japan too. Its a highly competitive society w/a heavy emphasis on family and work.

Deep down, they live in perpetual fear and worry about every little thing. While caution is a good thing, they overdo it and take it to the extreme, imagining the worst in every scenario even when it's unwarranted. As a result, they never truly live. You can feel the "fear vibe" of the Taiwanese masses when you are in their proximity. They also harbor constant guilt about not measuring up or not being "good enough". None of this is conducive to a "friendly and open" social atmosphere of course. ---TRUE, you would too if you lived next to Communist China proclaiming that Taiwan is part of China. Also family pressure to perform well in school, marry, find a good guy to have kids with is immense. This is less relevant in big cities

What you should know is that if you are in Taiwan long term, eventually the "fear energy" of the people will rub off on you and affect you negatively as well. Even if you are a person who does not believe in living in fear, like a hippie or New Ager, it will still eventually affect you, especially since you are eating their food, which is produced from "fear consciousness". (Remember that the thoughts, emotions and energy of the person preparing your food goes into the food as well.) ---TRUE, but its more like FML, why am I not working harder. I should be making more moneyssss!

This is a downside of Taiwan that is rarely mentioned, if ever, because people are in denial about it and are not conditioned to look deeper. Instead, they are conditioned to only care about working and raising a family, and other practical matters on the surface. ----CASE IN POINT!!!!!

6. Taiwan is a strict business-oriented and workaholic society which teaches that the only things that matter are making money and food. Personal happiness and feelings are seen as irrelevant and worthless. All that matters is work, productivity and conformity. People are conditioned to be stiff, repressed, and act like cold zombies without soul, heart or emotion. It's very sad and makes them almost inhuman and robotic-like. There is no free expression or creativity or thinking for yourself. It's all about conformity. The individual is nothing. The only "passion" one is allowed to have is passion for work and productivity (no surprise there). ----TRUE, but they like to drink too, and go traveling, if money allows, around the world to let loose

That's why it goes without saying that Taiwan is not a very fun place, since none of this is conducive to "fun" at all. Though the concept of "fun" is relative, the kind of fun I'm talking about is the highly festive free-spirited free-flowing heartfelt type of fun that exists in much of Europe, Mexico, Latin America, Russia, Philippines and Thailand. (If you've been there, you'll know what I mean) The fact is, Taiwanese are extremely uptight. They do not radiate warmth or emotion. Even when they are trying to have fun, you will never see them truly "let loose".

Also, Taiwan is not a place for one who values personal happiness either, since that doesn't even matter in Taiwanese culture. Besides, how can you be happy around people who are extremely cold and uptight and dominated by fear? I find it hard to relax or be myself around such people. Eventually, their vibes will affect you as well. ---this is more the case of Communist China than Taiwan. Beijing used to have that grimy communist feel. They really spruced it up for Olympics. Go outside big cities and its depressing.

Want to have a feel for Old China, go to Tianamen Square. Its all concrete and somebody got run over by a TANK!!!! how is that not more depressing!

Further, such a repressed workaholic culture will also not provide venues for you to pursue your "happiness", unless of course your happiness is derived from living a monotonous workaholic lifestyle with little interest in much else. ----Make money, f-ck bitches, living at 40% price of the western world/europe

In Taiwan, practically everyone is a conformist. Thus, they will conform to the workaholic culture with very little else to live for. How can that possibly be conducive to happiness? It can't. Trying to find an nonconformist in Taiwan is like trying to find a needle in a haystack. Even if they exist, they will be silent and alienated, or they will leave the country. Finding an "outspoken nonconformist and freethinker" is a near impossibility. (Not to brag, but I seem to be the only one) ---Face, my friend. Its all about face in Asia. In private, people open up.

7. Taiwan is a very prudish and conservative culture in the extreme. No public display of affection is allowed, such as kissing between couples. And TV soap operas and dramas that are produced in Taiwan almost never show people kissing or showing any physical affection. ---TRUE, daytime PDA is minimal. Nightime in clubs, all bets are off. Alcohol has a liberating effect.

Flirting is a big taboo in Taiwan. It is considered dirty creepy behavior. Taiwanese females do not flirt back with males. They do not allow gentlemen to kiss their hand, like women in Europe do. ---EWW I am not kissing some broad's hands. She probably was plowing a potato field or something. And they do not greet people with kisses on both cheeks, like European females do.---Um cultural differences, my friend On the flip side, a Taiwanese American girl in Taipei wrote me once and told me that when she tries to flirt with Taiwanese guys, they do not reciprocate but instead get weirded out. ---Yea, Taiwanese dudes are beta-max.

Obviously, none of this is conducive to romance, love or passion. I don't even need to tell you that. In fact, if you observe Taiwanese couples, you will notice that they even act cold and uptight around each other. They do not appear "in love" or romantic, and they often eat together in silence with very little to say to each other. What this means is that even if you are in a relationship with a Taiwanese, it is likely to be dull and cold, devoid of warmth, romance or passion.

8. Taiwanese people have extremely COLD and UPTIGHT body language, demeanor and expression. I don't know about you, but I find it very hard to relax, be happy or even be myself around people who look so uptight and anal. It kind of "rubs me the wrong way" is how I would put it. I guess if you are cold and uptight yourself, you may not see anything wrong with it, since they are the same as you. But if you are not, then it can be very awkward to be around people who are, especially if you come from a culture where people are not like that at all. The point here is that being constantly surrounded by very cold uptight people is obviously not conducive to happiness, fun or relaxation at all. ---Face!

9. The frequent reckless, dangerous and rude driving on Taiwan's streets and roads is stressful and annoying to deal with. Taiwanese cities, even the small ones, are way too cramped and packed with too many scooters and vehicles. Driving is not an enjoyable experience in Taiwan, but a stressful one that can cause tempers to flare. It is also hard to park if you are driving a car. And if you are driving a scooter, then you are taking chances with your life because scooter accidents can be fatal. None of this is conducive to happiness, peace or relaxation. ---Mongolia is worse. Thailand is worse, Russia is worse, Italy is worse.

10. On top of all this, Taiwan is not even an interesting place or culture.---WHAT!!!! Taiwan is the bastion of Chinese culture and art. Mao Ze Dong destroyed most of the cultural accomplishment of Pre-Communist China. Chiang-Kai-Shek ran away w/gold, art, and the intellegentsia. sigh, maybe if you live on the countryside in Taiwan w/nothing but mangos and chickens. Taipei is a beautiful city w/lots of free musuems and tons of stuff to do and lots and lots of students. =).
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Postby momopi » Wed Jan 09, 2013 7:39 pm

There's an issue with cross-cultural communications and some people just don't "get it". Example:

http://drlillianglassbodylanguageblog.w ... ir-psyche/

"The photo shows a group of men in uniform smiling with their fists angrily clenched. But their fists are only raised at the level of their heads. This gesture alone is very peculiar because when one is angry their arm usually shoots up on the air along with their clenched fist.
But sometimes a clenched fist signifies victory as you can see as a group of European footballers show in a BBC photo when they were victorious in a soccer match. Perhaps the North Korean soldiers were trying to depict the same sentiment in this photo but they clearly missed the mark.
Their gesture of potential victory should have been placed above their head, not contrived at the level of their head. The smiles of the Korean soldiers are also contrived. Look at the stiffness in their faces. Their cheeks are not raised. While their mouths are opened as though they appear to say something Their mouths do not depict a true and genuine smiling gesture. If that was the case, their lips would be pulled back with teeth showing. In this case their teeth are showing because they have no doubt been instructed to say something in unison.
This photo showed me that they appeared to be like automatons devoid of any real emotion at least publicly.
(snip)
This inconsistent behavior is clearly reflected in the body language of their soldiers as reflected . They are told what to do and how to act and perform even though it is unnatural to the body."



First, that's a picture of the South Korean President posing with some troops. It's not hard. Google for pictures of "Dear Leader" and compare to "South Korean President".

Second, it's a posed photo of a group of infantry in the typical "ganbatte yo!" (do your best!) pose that you'd find in East Asia. Like this:

Image

It means that you'd roll up your sleeves, work hard, and do you best. It has nothing to do with declaring victory.

Third, it's not uniquely Asian. Actually us Asians got it from the Americans, along with the "V" pose and many others:

Image


========

The world has gotten a lot smaller with ease of travel, international companies, international trade, etc. I had 4 different jobs over the past 5 years. The first had offices in over 22 countries around the globe and I was sent to Singapore office on work assignments. The second did business across North America and Europe, and I was sent to China to inspect our manufacturing line. The third had offices in 41 countries. My current job is with a medium sized company of less than 200 employees, but we have offices in Canada, Europe, Asia, and South America -- we just opened an office in Brazil.

Verbal and nonverbal communications differ from country to country, culture to culture. In one part of the world, a firm handshake indicates confidence. In another part of the world, a firm handshake is rude and aggressive. And in yet another part, a "limp" handshake is the norm and people will think you're weird for a firm handshake. Gestures also vary, in one culture it can mean "come here", and in another, such gesture is only used for calling animals and it'd be rude to use on people.

Sometimes "lost in translation" can have very negative consequences, such as "once a day" on a prescription being read as “11 times a day.â€￾ Similarly, you should not expect non-English speakers to use English in the same context as a native English speaker:

Image


==========


Rock wrote:I didn't read the proceeding threads. But I gotta say, my past experience agrees with much to most of what this respondent has written! Perhaps I will go thru it point by point to elaborate a bit later and highlight the areas of disagreement if I get the tie and inclination.


If someone goes to TW (or Japan or China) and encounters various social barriers in the first 3 months, you can give all kinds of advice as remedy and it's up to the person to take them and give it a shot. Depending on the situation, cultural differences (and understanding of) can be either be a benefit or liability.

But if the person has already spent 5 years there and still banging his head against the wall, the issue is no longer with the local people or its culture. It's the person himself who choose to stay and continue to bang his head against a brick wall.



Rock wrote:Young adults in Taiwan are painfully shy, insecure, non-assertive, and lack confidence and social skills (especially females)- TRUE- Girls are submissive and respect men. Girls will never openly reject you. They will save face and continue to talk to you even if they have a BF. They will excuse themselves and minimize a scene. Pretty weird coming from the States Nightlife. Dudes are very friendly and would probably be lumped into the BETA category. They are very friendly for the most part. Abundance mentality, maybe?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haragei
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ishin-denshin
http://www.amazon.com/The-Unspoken-Way- ... 0870118897

When children speak, they're direct with "I want, I want". Adults with more tact make their desires known through mutual understanding.

Image
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Chinese women: different types

Postby Falcon » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:55 am

Chinese and Taiwanese women are quite diverse. Here are 3 types. I do worst with #1, OK with #2, and best with #3.

momopi wrote:USC/UCLA/UCI tri-college party, what we were NOT invited to:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTev97Bx-kw[/youtube]


Type (1): I attend a top-tier university in southern California. Those are all Generation 2.0 Asian Americans. They are not the Generation 1.0 or 1.5 immigrants at all, and would almost never pose with V-signs or sport brightly dyed bed hair. They are fully assimilated Americans ("AW" if you will).

I really, really don't fit in with them and have plenty of trouble dating those types of women. In fact, I've had quite a few bad experiences asking them out and trying to date them. I can potentially rant more about that endlessly, but will not do so since it's not productive. The rants are already at:

Share your experiences with Asian-American women
http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... hp?t=13474


====================

They are a completely different breed from:

momopi wrote:Image


Type (2): Now with these are Generation 1.0 or 1.5 Taiwanese students in the US. I have a much easier time talking to them than I do with the English-only Generation 2.0 Asian Americans. Actually, I find the Mainland Chinese immigrant students even easier to connect with than the more cliquish Taiwanese and Hong Kong ones. They all give me a lot of attention as a very well-traveled guy who knows very much about different cultures. We can go on for really long talking about culture, language, history, food, and so on. Winston doesn't fit in with them.

Despite their being easy to befriend, I have trouble initiating romance with them. See the thread below.

How to initiate dating with Chinese women?
http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... hp?t=16813


====================

(Hmong women in Sa Pa, Vietnam; they dress very similarly in Yunnan, China)

Image

Type (3): Rural Chinese and Southeast Asian women. They're fantastically easy to talk to and connect with, on a deeper level than with the urban Taiwanese. This is because they love the "young, charismatic anthropologist" types like me; they're not for everyone. Report's in this thread:

Two ladies I had met in Yunnan, China
http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... hp?t=15815

====================

Any thoughts from Winston, Rock, Momopi, and others?
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Re: Chinese women: different types

Postby Rock » Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:49 am

Falcon wrote:Chinese and Taiwanese women are quite diverse. Here are 3 types. I do worst with #1, OK with #2, and best with #3.


Type (1): I attend a top-tier university in southern California. Those are all Generation 2.0 Asian Americans. They are not the Generation 1.0 or 1.5 immigrants at all, and would almost never pose with V-signs or sport brightly dyed bed hair. They are fully assimilated Americans ("AW" if you will).

I really, really don't fit in with them and have plenty of trouble dating those types of women. In fact, I've had quite a few bad experiences asking them out and trying to date them. I can potentially rant more about that endlessly, but will not do so since it's not productive. The rants are already at:

http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... hp?t=13474


====================

They are a completely different breed from:


Type (2): Now with these are Generation 1.0 or 1.5 Taiwanese students in the US. I have a much easier time talking to them than I do with the English-only Generation 2.0 Asian Americans. Actually, I find the Mainland Chinese immigrant students even easier to connect with than the more cliquish Taiwanese and Hong Kong ones. They all give me a lot of attention as a very well-traveled guy who knows very much about different cultures. We can go on for really long talking about culture, language, history, food, and so on. Winston doesn't fit in with them.

Despite their being easy to befriend, I have trouble initiating romance with them. See the thread below.

How to initiate dating with Chinese women?
http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... hp?t=16813


====================

(Hmong women in Sa Pa, Vietnam; they dress very similarly in Yunnan, China)

Image

Type (3): Rural Chinese and Southeast Asian women. They're fantastically easy to talk to and connect with, on a deeper level than with the urban Taiwanese. This is because they love the "young, charismatic anthropologist" types like me; they're not for everyone. Report's in this thread:

Two ladies I had met in Yunnan, China
http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... hp?t=15815

====================

Any thoughts from Winston, Rock, Momopi, and others?


You missed my favorite group, young Taiwan Han women who only attended a top or not so top uni in Taiwan and then went on to work in Taipei.

My tenant Monkro told me that any Taiwan girl who sets foot in USA for even 1 day becomes contaminated as a wife prospect as far as he's concerned. While I think that's extreme, I see the merit in eliminating anyone from your radar screen who has lived in USA for significant amount of time.

I've read a lot of unfavorable things about this crop of urban (first and second tier) educated Han women in China (PRC counterparts to my favorite group above) but even if these reports are mostly true, I'm sure there are a lot of exceptions worth looking at. From my perspective, there is a gap you need to fill-in between Group 2 and Group 3.
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Postby Winston » Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:22 pm

A new observation I realized that I will add to the 10 reasons essay:

"Even if you make a lot of friends in Taiwan, you eventually realize that these friends are really just casual acquaintances, because there is no real connection with them. They are like empty shells with no soul or emotions, like plastic caricatures or mannequins. (similar to America, but even worse) I've seen some of the older generation Taiwanese show some semblance of having a soul or emotions, but the young adult generation definitely seem empty and hollow, like plastic androids with no soul or spirit. Thus, the friendships you make in Taiwan will ultimately be unsatisfying.

It's also kind of depressing when you see that people are empty shells here because it leaves you wondering "How can humans descend into such a state of being?" What's scary is that you know deep down that you don't want to become like them, thus hanging around them could have a toxic negative effect on you."

The Siberian girl I went out with in Taiwan, told me this after she returned to Siberia:

Hello Winston! How are you doing? I dont miss taiwan. I really do not miss it, maybe just tea ))))
i am happy here. everything is real here, people, emotions, etc.
that girl she is a friend of mine on Facebook. I can ask her. when are you leaving taiwan? I wish I could travel around.
what do you think about dec 21?
take care, hope you answer me soon xxx


As you can see, she is saying that people in Siberia are "real people with real emotions" whereas people in Taiwan are NOT "real people with real emotions". lol

Btw Rock, who the hell wrote those true/false statements above? They were very arrogant and do not match the physical and photographic evidence I've observed and posted. Show that person the photos from the Chiayi nightclub where the Taiwanese girls were COLD to me and the other young white guys with me. They show reality. That dude's words were just words and have no meaning. I know what I see and what I experience. The Slovakian girl and German guy's letters that I posted in the other thread corroborated my statements too. All the data points to what I say as being generally true.

But even if you do make a lot of friends in Taiwan, the new observation above applies.

I don't get vibe with conservative countries at all, or with cold, uptight, closed, stiff, inhuman body language. I prefer people who are open, direct, expressive and make eye contact. I hate it when I'm not allowed to flirt. To me, that's suffocating since it doesn't allow me to do what I want to around girls. That's the bottom line. Denial doesn't change that, nor does it change all the vast data presented from multiple sources.

Earlier today I talked to a really hot girl at the supermarket. I asked her an innocent question. But after that, she had nothing more to say and I froze. It felt inappropriate to chat more with her or ask for her number or try to flirt with her. I can do it in my mind when I'm rehearsing what to say to her. But when I'm actually physically in front of her, I freeze up. I hate that! It just feels sooooooo inappropriate. Why is that? How come I don't freeze like that in Russia/Eastern Europe? It's really weird. When I try to put on my usual chat up and pick up style in Taiwan, it feels inappropriate and I freeze up. Why is that? Is it because my style doesn't fit in? Totally sucks. I hate it when I freeze up! I hate it!!!
Last edited by Winston on Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:08 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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