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Will the Philippines new "investment grade" status spell...

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.

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Postby zboy1 » Sat Mar 30, 2013 9:13 am

Mr S wrote: So as much as all you guys post about wanting to move out of your Western country and live overseas long-term, it's easier said than done. Only a small percentage on this board are probably willing or able to manage to make the hurdle to completely remove themselves from their Western matrix. Every year it gets harder too, not easier.


Yes, I agree with your statement, Mr S. It's getting harder certainly, but it's not impossible. I still have hope in moving overseas one day....
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Postby OutWest » Sat Mar 30, 2013 4:15 pm

zboy1 wrote:
Mr S wrote: So as much as all you guys post about wanting to move out of your Western country and live overseas long-term, it's easier said than done. Only a small percentage on this board are probably willing or able to manage to make the hurdle to completely remove themselves from their Western matrix. Every year it gets harder too, not easier.


Yes, I agree with your statement, Mr S. It's getting harder certainly, but it's not impossible. I still have hope in moving overseas one day....



I don't know if it is harder to move overseas in reality. A bigger issue may be that most would rather complain and talk about it than actually do it...some intellectual dishonesty at work...it has never been easy, but in some ways the internet made it easier for many. - note Ladislav's teaching English online book. I think the reality is for most, that they want to talk and complain, but are in fact still stuck on the Western tit and really not that keen to get off of it.

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Postby ladislav » Sat Mar 30, 2013 6:24 pm

One of the problems is the schooling there. The goals are very vague and even the students don't know about where they're going to be working. Many have the vague "I want to go abroad" dream. Many college graduates end up working at call centers making P 500 a day. That is after they spent hundreds of thousands of pesos getting a degree.

Otoh, they have vocational courses at TESDA- a gov't organization providing very cheap/subsidized short educational training. I have a friend whom I helped with a couple of hundred dollars. The course is like 35 days and they can work in housekeeping at hotels and will be making almost the same money and will be able to work abroad, as well.

Recently there was a suicide by a young girl at one university because she was not able to pay tuition which sparked riots.

http://www.ucanews.com/news/outrage-gro ... cide/67764

A lot of college education in the Philippines is no longer useful ( just like in the US). The 4 year colege was introduced by Americans beginning of last century and it was a good idea until maybe 1960ies but no longer guarantees anything. There are few scholarships, no student loan program and many people either stop in the middle or resort to dishonorable means to pay tuition. Some kill themselves. Very tragic.

The Philippines needs to stop looking towards the West or follow it, but instead look at what the neighbors are doing right and follow them. Most Filipinos have no idea who their ASEAN neighbors are. They have nevert met an Indonesian, a Burmese, a Thai, a Cambodian. These are like people from another planet to them and many have never even heard of those countries which are next door. But it's always Americano, Americaaaaano!

So, for many, the 4 year college thing is a ruin, a waste of life. It is also a time when many reject relationships in favor of getting that often useless degree. This contributes to rise in prostitution ( in my opinion) as many men cannot get married or have a steady GF because she tells them to wait 4-5 years ( the sperm in the balls does not wait that long to be released).
Last edited by ladislav on Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby OutWest » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:13 pm

publicduende wrote:
Mr S wrote:Actually, if you are well off it's a great place to live for locals or foreigners cause you get your a** licked everyday from the unclean masses, so most upper-end Filipinos and some foreigners get used to it and like brown dirty tongues licking their butt-hole for scraps and left over peso pocket change.


Mr S I had enough of these rants of yours. You're right, believing in fairy tale economic stories and calling it optimism might be bad, but nurturing nothing else than hatred and despise and calling it realism is much, much worse.

If you hate the Philippines so much, why have you been living there for 10 years already? Why not just go away to Thailand, Japan, Singapore or back home? The PI gave you a wife, a job and a lifestyle that's probably miles away from what you could get in your homeland (the US, I presume), all things being equal. Or perhaps you don't have the skills and the credentials to do something useful for a top-tier Asian economy? If that's the case, stay where you are and stop complaining. It's all starting to get a bit pathetic now.

Are you afraid that, by going back to that Eden of free market capitalism that is the US, the magic carpet will be pulled under your feet and you will turn back into an underskilled Mr. N(obody)? Are you afraid of starting to eat shit processed food again and suck on the same welfare tit you so despise?

And anyways...all these ideas about the usual horse-size injections of free market capitalism and unbridled, unregulated foreign investment as a solution to the failed socialist model of the PI, or the Aquino government, are still being disseminated on such hate blogs as AntiPinoy and GetRealPhilippines. As if Filipinos were moronic enough not to see what that prime example of economic dynamism that is the US have become.

Outwest and some other people in here have been talking about living in Chile, an economy that has been routinely pillaged and raped by the US and free market crusaders in the past, and still managed to rebound thanks to that thing capitalism will never capture: that mix of progressive and socialist policy that comes from a real desire for social cohesion. Solidarity. The feeling that one's happiness means little if it's the result of another one's misery.

Another 10 or 100 years in the Philippines will never teach you more than you already know. Stay where you are, for gosh' sake.



Chile is a different kind of place- even the last socialist president was quite pro-business though, and now she has been replaced by a conservative wealthy businessman.

Chile has some socialist and "progressive" flavors for sure, but at the same time they have NO interest in following the European model into bankruptcy and ruin. They still very much believe in individual responsibility. They have very little public debt and government spending is strictly limited. Rampant vote buying though debt fraud is not being practiced, as it has been in the US and Europe.

If you are looking for freedom, Chile has quite a bit to offer. If you are looking for some socialist progressive "Paradise"
you will be very disappointed.


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Postby abcdavid01 » Sun Mar 31, 2013 5:29 pm

Hmm. I guess where the Libertarians go wrong is thinking individualism applies to all. But it's a product of those who really are individuals, men. They accept the liberal narrative that women and even children are equally individuals. It's the common denominator between Libertarianism and Marxism.
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Postby OutWest » Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:42 pm

abcdavid01 wrote:Hmm. I guess where the Libertarians go wrong is thinking individualism applies to all. But it's a product of those who really are individuals, men. They accept the liberal narrative that women and even children are equally individuals. It's the common denominator between Libertarianism and Marxism.


Good insight David, but a sensible libertarian might also believe that individualism is highly male and also believe that he is responsible for his own house. (A woman and children) A libertarian does not rule out collective action, so long as government is the servant and not the master.
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Postby Taco » Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:05 am

Mr S wrote:
publicduende wrote:
Mr S wrote:Actually, if you are well off it's a great place to live for locals or foreigners cause you get your a** licked everyday from the unclean masses, so most upper-end Filipinos and some foreigners get used to it and like brown dirty tongues licking their butt-hole for scraps and left over peso pocket change.


Mr S I had enough of these rants of yours. You're right, believing in fairy tale economic stories and calling it optimism might be bad, but nurturing nothing else than hatred and despise and calling it realism is much, much worse.

If you hate the Philippines so much, why have you been living there for 10 years already? Why not just go away to Thailand, Japan, Singapore or back home? The PI gave you a wife, a job and a lifestyle that's probably miles away from what you could get in your homeland (the US, I presume), all things being equal. Or perhaps you don't have the skills and the credentials to do something useful for a top-tier Asian economy? If that's the case, stay where you are and stop complaining. It's all starting to get a bit pathetic now.

Are you afraid that, by going back to that Eden of free market capitalism that is the US, the magic carpet will be pulled under your feet and you will turn back into an underskilled Mr. N(obody)? Are you afraid of starting to eat shit processed food again and suck on the same welfare tit you so despise?

And anyways...all these ideas about the usual horse-size injections of free market capitalism and unbridled, unregulated foreign investment as a solution to the failed socialist model of the PI, or the Aquino government, are still being disseminated on such hate blogs as AntiPinoy and GetRealPhilippines. As if Filipinos were moronic enough not to see what that prime example of economic dynamism that is the US have become.

Outwest and some other people in here have been talking about living in Chile, an economy that has been routinely pillaged and raped by the US and free market crusaders in the past, and still managed to rebound thanks to that thing capitalism will never capture: that mix of progressive and socialist policy that comes from a real desire for social cohesion. Solidarity. The feeling that one's happiness means little if it's the result of another one's misery.

Another 10 or 100 years in the Philippines will never teach you more than you already know. Stay where you are, for gosh' sake.
.

You don't even know how sick you truly are as now you are attacking males who have survived the process of unplugging from the Western feminist multicultural gay loving Western countries they originally hale from. .


+1 Well said.
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Postby The_Adventurer » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:30 am

Getting out getting overseas is plenty easy if you really want to do it. I dropped everything and just did it, with only $1400, or so, in my pocket, and a laptop. I HAD to make money online so I learned how. I kept learning and still keep learning. If I WAITED until I have the online income I have now that would have been 5YEARS! Except I would have NEVER made it because it was having ALL MY TIME that made it possible.
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Postby jboy » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:02 am

Mr S wrote:Ha, ha all you dudes who think Philippines is going to become the next Asian tiger, that's a laugher. There is no way in hell it's going anywhere but stuck in first gear at the most. Everything you see here is smoke and mirrors. If anything were to change for the better it would take many generations, not within the next ten years. All the most viable people who would be willing to improve the Philippines for good are moving to Western countries, they are not staying in the Philippines. Why should they? They make crappy wages and there is no real growth potential for them after a certain point. Corruption, pollution, etc. The ones who stay either don't have the ability financially, intellectually or are physically too old now. The oligarchs rule the show pretty much and give their 'blessings' to selected peons that they favor.

I've been living here nearly 10 straight years and almost 'NOTHING' has changed in regards to quality of life for the average Filipino. Things I notice are actually getting worse cause everything is getting more expensive, especially food and wages are stagnant at best. Unless you think quality of life should be rated by more malls, condos and gated communities, then things aren't a whole lot different then when I first got here. Everything is the same quality but more expensive and more congestion with less infrastructure.

The BPO industry I don't think will survive as you see it today. When technology is able to provide similar services, plus if the peso keeps rising the cost incentive to keep the BPO industry in Philippines will lessen, which is already happening in America, companies are starting to move BPO services back to the states.

Most Filipinos learn in college whatever is the current trend so for example they have an inordinate amount of nurses at the moment, with most not able to find work in the Philippines so they either have low wages under 10k a month or have to work as a volunteer at a hospital. So if they can't get proper experience and don't have a decent command of the English language they can't work overseas in a Western country. So now you have way too many graduates in one field who have to work other jobs to get by or are unemployed and aren't even using their job skills.

Now 'hotel and restaurant management' is the next big jump on the band wagon course to study, I wonder where that will take Filipinos in the long run? Probably no where cause its the same BS trying to work overseas crap as previous degrees. These were pushed by fly by night colleges here like nursing and before that computer science/programming/networking/etc. Even when Filipinos have no inclination or interest in the subject matter they are forced to take up whatever is 'popular' due to peer or parental pressure because they think it will provide the golden ticket to the promised land, i.e. a Western country. They don't think of the long term ramifications of choosing to study a course that already has high competition with questionable employment results in their own country, Philippines. If they can't get out of the country to work, they are screwed in the long run. Wasted time and money learning something they can't use.

This is the story of the Philippines, it ain't going nowhere people. I know many of you are rainbow and unicorn optimists here, which is fine in certain circumstances but I'm a realist and I work in the Western overseas education/work industry and travel all around the Philippines and I know exactly what's going on, I don't subscribe to the propaganda that you guys think you see and read, it's not happening. I used to work in the BPO industry here too for a while and I know all about that crap industry too.

I don't just post articles and talk out of my a** when it comes to what's going on in the Philippines. Yeah, everyone has their own opinion but I post articles like this cause the writers actually know what's going on in this country and don't work for Manila Bulletin, Philippine Star, National inquirer, etc.

This country is only good for families who can live on 50k Pesos or more a month. Individuals can get by on around 20-25k depending on lifestyle choices) Actually, if you are well off it's a great place to live for locals or foreigners cause you get your a** licked everyday from the unclean masses, so most upper-end Filipinos and some foreigners get used to it and like brown dirty tongues licking their butt-hole for scraps and left over peso pocket change. If you don't make 50k or more then you either live with others who do or combine resources. For those who can never achieve that kind of income mark, which is the majority of the country they are sucking eggs, life is miserable in comparison to middle class and above lifestyle.

However I have a solution, maybe the Catholic church will save and financially support them, all they have to do is donate more money to the church that they don't have, pool it all together and everything will be just fine. I'm sure it will be doled out to everyone in need evenly. Like they say here, God will provide.... :roll: :lol:


Lol man u're simply jaded and hates the Phillies coz of what happened to u lol. Get urself and ur kid out of the country u hate so much. Haters gotta hate lol.
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Postby jboy » Mon Apr 01, 2013 9:09 am

publicduende wrote:
Mr S wrote:Actually, if you are well off it's a great place to live for locals or foreigners cause you get your a** licked everyday from the unclean masses, so most upper-end Filipinos and some foreigners get used to it and like brown dirty tongues licking their butt-hole for scraps and left over peso pocket change.


Mr S I had enough of these rants of yours. You're right, believing in fairy tale economic stories and calling it optimism might be bad, but nurturing nothing else than hatred and despise and calling it realism is much, much worse.

If you hate the Philippines so much, why have you been living there for 10 years already? Why not just go away to Thailand, Japan, Singapore or back home? The PI gave you a wife, a job and a lifestyle that's probably miles away from what you could get in your homeland (the US, I presume), all things being equal. Or perhaps you don't have the skills and the credentials to do something useful for a top-tier Asian economy? If that's the case, stay where you are and stop complaining. It's all starting to get a bit pathetic now.

Are you afraid that, by going back to that Eden of free market capitalism that is the US, the magic carpet will be pulled under your feet and you will turn back into an underskilled Mr. N(obody)? Are you afraid of starting to eat shit processed food again and suck on the same welfare tit you so despise?

And anyways...all these ideas about the usual horse-size injections of free market capitalism and unbridled, unregulated foreign investment as a solution to the failed socialist model of the PI, or the Aquino government, are still being disseminated on such hate blogs as AntiPinoy and GetRealPhilippines. As if Filipinos were moronic enough not to see what that prime example of economic dynamism that is the US have become.

Outwest and some other people in here have been talking about living in Chile, an economy that has been routinely pillaged and raped by the US and free market crusaders in the past, and still managed to rebound thanks to that thing capitalism will never capture: that mix of progressive and socialist policy that comes from a real desire for social cohesion. Solidarity. The feeling that one's happiness means little if it's the result of another one's misery.

Another 10 or 100 years in the Philippines will never teach you more than you already know. Stay where you are, for gosh' sake.


+1
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Postby publicduende » Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:43 am

Mr S wrote:Wow, what brought this hateful personal rant, dude? Why you get all butt-hurt? These posts are to show others who care what is really going on in Philippines and to make their own decisions regarding its economic prosperity or not. For you to personally take offense to it is remarkable considering you should be more enlightened and more open to opposing opinions coming from a Western background. I can maybe understand ignorant nationalist Filipinos or other SE Asians maybe getting butt-hurt, but my fellow Happier Abroad board poster, c'mon it can't be? Or can it....? Hmmmm.

Anyways, dude I feel all hurt now that you insulted me and called me out for what I really am. I guess I should go wallow in self-pity and get my a** back to wherever I'm originally from and go work for some service sector industry part-time job or unionized government one like you told me too, cause as a free-thinking Alpha male that's all I'm good for I guess, cause that will show me who's really in charge. Get all those many hating Alpha females and dykes after me, ya that will fix him up real good. Throw in some whitey hating blacks and latinos too, that'll do the trick for sure! That will show him some real hate and negativity, Bwah, ha, ha. Eh, I wonder why you want to put me down instead of giving me a hand up? Hmmmm. I wonder on that one. I guess you must be unconsciously absorbing the anti-male feminist dogma in the airwaves of that once fine country of yours.

If you are tired of my posts or rants, which by the way I rarely do now regardless. Then don't read them, or comment on them. By you pussyfooting around calling out me and others you don't agree with really shows what kind of disposition you really have as an individual since none of what I posted was even remotely directed at your personage and for someone like yourself to take what I write personally, you have really got some issues to contend with.

The Philippines is a really messed up country, but like any country it has its positive and negatives with it. One has to tread in-between them to be successful. I want to warn others who get sucked into the initial fairy-tale side of it which generally affects newbies who are just first-time or casual tourists. Also for those who have lived here maybe less than two years. Generally if one lives here full time the honeymoon is over in two years or less and one has to then figure out how to tread skillfully between the positives the culture and bring as well as the negatives.

I am not Winston who posts everything about his personal life cause he craves attention he never got properly as a child, teen and young adult, so this board is not an outlet for those kinds of digressions. I originally joined this forum because I had discovered Winston's overseas blogs way back in 2004 I believe and since I was living the lifestyle he advertises and we had similar interests and were both free thinkers I decided to find others who had similar interests. Unfortunately, over the years the forum has attracted many newer posters who don't know the difference between CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM and PERSONAL CRITICISM. Posters such as yourself who attack the messenger because he doesn't like what was written or posted ruins the experiences for all.

I live in the Philippines for personal reasons at the moment, does it mean I like it or am stuck here forever? No. Technically I can leave whenever I wish and could find employment with a decent salary in most any country, if I so chose to do. Not to get into details but I am sacrificing a bit of everything I have or am for someone I truly care about that is innocent and has no other options to succeed in life if I were to leave arbitrarily. For you to make the uncouth assumption that I am a degenerate who can't make it anywhere else is of low consciousness level and without any valid evidence to the contrary. Think about it, how many foreigners would give up a lot just to be in the position I am in in regards to finding a way to live here long term with enough money to have a decent lifestyle and all that? Many wish they could but they either can't or don't know how to. I figured out a way to do both, so I can't be too stupid right? Don't you think it's probable that if I can do it in the difficult environment of the Philippines where foreigner employment is frowned upon, that I could easily succeed in other countries with similar anti-foreigner employment sentiments or excel in a country where foreigner professionals are welcome? I am not being supported by anyone but myself and for me to be able to figure out how to live overseas and maintain the same or higher quality of life must mean something to HA members don't you think? Don't you think I know something that you dudes stuck in your own countries don't? I don't post much anymore because posters like yourself don't listen or they attack the messenger. So I'm sorry that I don't post much here cause I got better things to do with my time then defend my honor and try to explain why I write or post particular things to individuals who don't quite get it, doesn't register at their current level of consciousness. BTW, I travel much more as a tourist then I let on but I don't post my travels cause I don't want to deal with personal attack comments that contribute nothing to the discussion. Those who have ears and eyes to see and hear could probably learn a lot from me if there weren't so many that were acrimonious to posts that explain what is really going on in the world around them.

Overall, unsolicited replies and criticisms that attack the messenger are pointless and don't contribute anything to the discussion. I don't care if you disagree with it but write up something comprehensible as to why that is backed up by facts and figures. The shallowness of personal attacks on this forum just shows how much of the mangina mentality that is pervasive in males living in feminist run countries now. You don't even know how sick you truly are as now you are attacking males who have survived the process of unplugging from the Western feminist multicultural gay loving Western countries they originally hale from. How many posters on Happier Abroad actually live the overseas lifestyle and have done it for a number of years? Not too many....Every country is screwed up in it's own way if you ignore the problems and only point out the positives, you will FAIL living as a permanent Western expatriot in any country. Even Winston hasn't technically been able to live fully overseas in multiple countries successfully. He lived/lives in Taiwan cause his parents have a residence there so that doesn't really count much. The only other place he has lived long term was the Philippines, which incidentally is practically right next to Taiwan. His other travels are basically ancient history as they occurred at the turn of the century. So as much as all you guys post about wanting to move out of your Western country and live overseas long-term, it's easier said than done. Only a small percentage on this board are probably willing or able to manage to make the hurdle to completely remove themselves from their Western matrix. Every year it gets harder too, not easier.

I'm done. I think I have wasted enough of my time and gotten my basic point across.


Ok, well, my apologies for hurting your free-thinking, proud Alpha male persona. Would you, then, feel like apologising to the millions of educated, hard-working Filipinos who you insulted by penning the horrible statement below?

Mr S wrote:Actually, if you are well off it's a great place to live for locals or foreigners cause you get your a** licked everyday from the unclean masses, so most upper-end Filipinos and some foreigners get used to it and like brown dirty tongues licking their butt-hole for scraps and left over peso pocket change.


I am not taking it personally here, and for that matter I am not even targeting you personally. It is evident to everybody that many of your posts have a bitter edge of criticism and, judging from the language you use, have a flavour that go well beyond tough love, or constructive criticism. They don't taste chicken adobo, they taste poison, and that's the taste I had in my mouth as I read this last post of yours.

This hasn't anything to do with being an Alpha, or being male and anti-establishment. I have always been fiercely anti-establishment and if you knew some aspects of my personal life, you would understand immediately that I am one of those "lucky few" who is proactively disconnecting from what you call the matrix.

This is about living 10 years in a place that's complex, changing, growing, and expressing oneself based on tired stereotypes more akin to wartime propaganda. You never met Filipinos who are not mouth-to-ass into the rich and the foreigner, who have an education, a social status, or only just enough dignity to be themselves without having to pander to a master?

Nobody is saying that the Philippines are the perfect country, the perfect society and the perfect place to live in. It's just that, for someone who has lived in that country for a really fat slice of his life, I would expect a much more refined and ultimately balanced commentary.

On one side you label the Philippines a place devoid of any hopes for lasting social and economic improvement, on the other side you say that that "innocent soul who has no other options to succeed in life" would be better off staying in that country. Obviously I don't know the details of your personal life story, but that statement of yours does sound every bit a contradiction.

Your stance on the Philippines exudes the worst kind of "cultural colonialism" you Kanos have been nurturing towards half of the world for decades. Not without a dose of arrogance and hypocrisy, given the fact that you and your armies of soldiers and free market economists have been f***ing up a good number of them, from Guatemala to Chile, India to Indonesia, for almost a century. And given the fact you so proudly declare yourself a free-thinker, fully disconnected from the American matrix, why do some of your judgments still sound hopelessly anchored to that American superiority mindset? I mean...isn't about time for you guys to recognise that free-thinking means embracing cultures and ways of living different, even polar opposite, from yours?

I am not attacking the messenger for the message, Mr S. I am attacking the messenger because he is delivering such a skewed message, it's difficult to believe he has lived (and prospered) in the country he's routinely bashing for so long.
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Postby ladislav » Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:24 pm

Gentlemen, this discussion is derailing into a bit of an emotional sparring contest. This could all have been avoided had you stuck with statistics and hard numbers. Outside of that everything becomes an opinion and a personal observation. Also, many Filipinos and Fil-Ams, as well as many Americans do not like hearing foreigners criticizing their country. My country, right or wrong! There are all these stereotypes and assumptions flying here and there, as well.

My personal observation is - since 1991- a year when I arrived in the Philippines for the first time, and now, huge changes took place, but some things stayed the same, and some got worse- like traffic for example, but those are my personal observations. I do not have stats, though. Whether the Philippines is doing good, bad should again be based on some stats, at least in comparison with the neighboring countries. Indonesia recently overtook the Philippines in GDP per capita which may mean something but may not. Each country needs to capitalize on its strong points.

What they Philippines ala New Zealand- it was a good idea to invite all the Koreans to study as well as all the Iranians. That's a lot of money into the country's coffers. Promoting itself as a cheap alternative to Western education with no visa problems, no cold weather and no social isolation is a great idea. VN, Indonesia, Cambodia etc. cannot do that. Also, presenting itself as an English speaking retirement destination is a good thing. More needs to be done in developing both areas.

New Zealand invited what seems to be half of Korea to study there, and Australia brought in many hundreds of thousands of rich Chinese- all to take courses in English. This is a great direction and is money without having to build any industries except housing and classrooms. That is where RP will have no competition at least among its neighbors.

As far as the imperialism by Kanos, many Filipinos just lap it up. They love American music, American culture ( or what they think it is based on Hollywood movies) and see America as a standard, not some neighbor such as Singapore for example. Just about everybody thinks America is superior. Going to the US and getting a US passport is a dream for so many. On the radio its mostly American songs. The neighboring countries such as Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore have all gone thier own way and do not love the ex-colonizer as much.

The US style 4 year college is no longer as effective and needs to be stream-lined and oriented by market realities. Also, the RP became independent before the Civil Rights movement so, they did not pass strong laws to protect their people- there is blatant age discrimination as well as other types of discrimination which keeps huge numbers of work force unemployed. There are also many people who are still stuck in the agricultural frame of mind- they have many kids, no medical insurance and hope that things will work out the way they did in the old times, but you can no longer do it in industrial or information age.

So, some things have improved but there is room for improvement. One thing to attract tourists would be to do what Thailand did- promote itself as a very exotic Asian country and a great Asian culture. The Philippines has great dances, local cultures and music on par with Thailand but because the locals are not proud of it, it's not being developed. For example, Indonesia has this to offer to tourists:

Image

The Philippines is still far behind.

As far as bashing goes, everybody does it. Do you think Filipinos do not bash Saudi Arabia when they live there? How about the USA when they live there? Same thing. It's not easy to live in another culture.
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Postby Mr S » Wed Apr 10, 2013 3:15 pm

The problem is many people nowadays tend to ignore or sweep under the rug the negative side of things while only looking at the positives and thus nothing much changes. I post articles that give a real life perspective of what's really going on in economics and politics and other aspects of life there that are only being reported by freethinking Filipinos who are not tied into any cultural or social dogma that the typical Filipino is inundated on a daily basis by.

Adults need to be less sensitive and accept ways of writing that may be offensive to some ears, but that's the point, it's to grab their attention. You don't like the articles I post and the manner in which I deliver the message, but there is a reason these articles are written like that, to cause shock to some and alternative thinking in others. They are not based on hate but reality. It's called sarcasm, many don't like that form of communication but I do, and it gets the point across one way or another. If I truly detested the Philippines I wouldn't be here, I've left many other countries cause I didn't want to live/work there. The Philippines has two sides and one needs to know both to succeed. Just focusing on the positives and believing all the crap the media and politicians spew about how everything is improving and what not is generally a lie, and Westerners need to be aware of what's really going on so they can make educated decisions.

I personally don't care much or get emotionally attached to any particular human culture on planet Earth because they all have their flaws as well as positives and negatives. There are obviously places that are more tolerable to bear than others depending on ones own inclinations.

When I make extreme points its to promote shock and get one to think why I would write something like that. What I observe for example in nicer terms for you to handle is many brown and black skinned Filipinos are being used and abused by their so called whiter skinned brethren. If you have white skin and have a supposed higher status then you can do no wrong and many lower social class Filipinos are trained by the culture to cow-tow to any white looking Filipino or person of European descent. The higher classes get used to this treatment and that's how they act everywhere to their 'servants'. You see this most prominently in higher end restaurants, hotels, private clubs, social gatherings, etc. Many Westerners of European descent also get sucked into this new treatment and this is what I was talking about, liking getting their ass licked by brown skinned Filipinos. Is this putting down Filipinos? No, it is a derogatory statement specifically made to grab the readers attention. Filipinos that are more provincial and less educated are constantly bombarded by the media here whether it is in the movies or TV, that all the white skinned or mestizo Filipinos have better lives, are supposed to be treated better, ect. They are culturally indoctrinated to be this way and it's pretty pathetic. The upper classes do not support the traditional Malay looking Filipino in their own media and the only time you see them are on their silly game shows making fools of themselves. A perfect example is recently at the Marco Polo hotel in Davao, there was a new manager there recently and she had the nerve to say that all these lower class Filipinos were 'dirtying' up her hotel and making it look unpleasant or something like that, loud and out in the open for all to hear. Because normally there are only rich Filipinos or foreigners staying there and when we are there there are tradesmen Filipinos or lower class who don't look the part or are not refined enough to be socially acceptable in that 5 star hotel. Anyways, Filipinos themselves are far worse to each other than any foreigner could be to them, which you claim I am doing. Here is a great article outlining the problems with Filipino culture, as he says there are positive ones too but he is just discussing the negative side so don't have a hissy fit over it:

The dark side of Filipino Culture:

Image
Yes, this is or was a real TV show here in PI, so instead of findng a black skinned Filipino they would rather do black face on a light skinned one.
http://internetjaywalking.blogspot.com/ ... lture.html

The real economic reality of Philippines:
http://getrealphilippines.com/blog/2011 ... rofitably/

So you can try to take a big shit or dump on me how much you like but I'm just posting the facts and for those who wish to know the other side of the story I'll report it when I see something worth mentioning and you can go on being a hater for someone reporting JUST THE FACTS, in albeit a more confrontational format.

Happier Abroad was meant to be a freethinking and thought provoking forum with little to no censorship of speaking or writing ones mind. I know technically this only exists supposedly in one country, technically still in United States of America and for those who grew up in the country and are not brainwashed by the current movements of political correctness or word manipulations we still practice this form or free speech. Many countries say they have free speech but they don't cause they have all kinds of side rules regarding what you can and can't say so technically you don't have free speech, and I believe this includes the country you purport to hail from.

Why don't you act more like this fellows quote:

“I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.â€￾
― Evelyn Beatrice Hall, The Friends of Voltaire

Instead of crying about how evil and racist I am and how hateful my posts are regarding the Philippines. Why don't you go take a crap and piss on someone somewhere else who might gives two shits what you may think since you don't like what I have to say? So what if you feel personally offended by my posts, that's the whole idea don't you know?

The secret to success is to offend the greatest number of people.
George Bernard Shaw

I think anyone who has an opinion, and voices it, will offend someone.
Peter Steele

What is freedom of expression? Without the freedom to offend, it ceases to exist.
Salman Rushdie

If you're not going to offend somebody you don't need the First Amendment.
Larry Flynt

Freedom of speech includes the freedom to offend people.
Brad Thor

I don't post lies and half truths, everything I post is based on true observable facts. Now, people are free to take them for what they are worth and either look more into them or ignore them but they are based on reality. If Filipinos really cared about what was going on in their country they would pay notice to the negatives of their society and fix them rather then just accept them as Gods will or what ever. Most just leave the county and live in a Western one so that they can live a true normal life where they can provide the best environment for their families. For most Filipinos, probably 70%, they cannot provide what they wish they could for their family and thus this needs to be called out and if it hurts peoples feelings or offends them so be it, the truth hurts. I do the same to the USSA and other Western countries that attempt to distort the truth about reality and the condition the average person is living in over there.

If you want to know why I live here, cause obviously you have such a vested emotional interest in me, it's mainly, amongst other reasons, that I'm basically left alone and don't have to worry about nanny state laws like in USSA or other Western countries. Even though there are rules here, they can be bent or sidestepped if ones knows the lay of the land. You can't be completely free in most Western countries anymore, too many rules and police state mentality going on. Since the Philippines still mainly runs on cash and it's very slow at innovation it is very easy to live in as long as you are smarter than the average person here and can keep ahead of the pitfalls of living in a pseudo turd world country, it is not yet a police state, rather a more a corrupt society where the rules exist to be broken in one fashion or another.

I would say pseudo because you can go from 1st world to turd world depending on where you are located. So it's a mix of both, for those who can escape the poverty they love it here, for those who have to endure it they generally don't or are so used to it they don't know any better. Would I say this is a good environment to live in long term? Yes and no, if you know how to maneuver the various social and cultural obstacles and can easily adapt to illogical actions and thinking at times by the locals then one can do okay here. I don't think it's a long term solution for most people cause most foreigners cannot live here long term, they either eventually go back to their own countries or intermix living in the Philippines with other countries. The cost of living can either be inexpensive or expensive in comparison to Western countries depending on ones spending habits and proclivity for Western style living and pleasures. I don't live an extravagant lifestyle and do not need Western luxuries to enjoy myself, I mix what I need as I go along in life. As I stated previously I take the good with the bad here and want to point out to others the pitfalls of this country so others will be forewarned that everything is not as it appears to be initially when one first visits or starts to live here semi long term.

If you don't like my postings then don't comment on them. If I was being so egregious in my postings, so what? Don't read them or at the least disagree with verifiable logical facts that would support the positions you are contesting in the articles. So there, you don't need to get all hard core offended and write me up a diatribe regarding why I'm a despicable human being, that's completely absurd. If it was remotely true than others on Happier Abroad would be making similar accusations with my other older postings and I would be shit on all over not in this posting but others as well and taken down like other members have had happen to them. You can have your own opinions of the Philippines and post your own articles regarding this and that and I'll post mine, we can let the HA members decide on their own which information to believe before going there or settling down or marrying a Filipina or whatever floats their boat concerning the Philippines.

Here are some other great quotes regarding free speech, maybe something can be learned, eh?

“It is the rare fortune of these days that one may think what one likes and say what one thinks.â€￾
― Tacitus, Histories of Tacitus

“Genuine bravery for a writer.... It is about calmly speaking the truth when everyone else is silenced, when the truth cannot be expressed. It is about speaking out with a different voice, risking the wrath of the state and offending everyone, for the sake of the truth, and the writer’s conscience.â€￾
― Murong Xuecun

“This is slavery, not to speak one's thought.â€￾
― Euripides, The Phoenician Women

“It was a shocking thing to say and I knew it was a shocking thing to say. But no one has the right to live without being shocked. No one has the right to spend their life without being offended. Nobody has to read this book. Nobody has to pick it up. Nobody has to open it. And if you open it and read it, you don't have to like it. And if you read it and you dislike it, you don't have to remain silent about it. You can write to me, you can complain about it, you can write to the publisher, you can write to the papers, you can write your own book. You can do all those things, but there your rights stop. No one has the right to stop me writing this book. No one has the right to stop it being published, or sold, or bought, or read.â€￾
― Philip Pullman

“Give me the liberty to know, to utter, and to argue freely according to conscience, above all liberties.â€￾
― John Milton, Areopagitica

“Hypocrites get offended by the truth.â€￾
― Jess C. Scott, Bad Romance: Seven Deadly Sins Anthology

“Because if you don't stand up for the stuff you don't like, when they come for the stuff you do like, you've already lost.â€￾
― Neil Gaiman

“My own opinion is enough for me, and I claim the right to have it defended against any consensus, any majority, anywhere, any place, any time. And anyone who disagrees with this can pick a number, get in line, and kiss my ass.â€￾
― Christopher Hitchens

“If freedom of speech is taken away, then dumb and silent we may be led, like sheep to the slaughter.â€￾
― George Washington

“If liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.â€￾
― George Orwell

“We forget that, although freedom of speech constitutes an important victory in the battle against old restraints, modern man is in a position where much of what "he" thinks and says are the things that everybody else thinks and says; that he has not acquired the ability to think originally - that is, for himself - which alone gives meaning to his claim that nobody can interfere with the expression of his thoughts.â€￾
― Erich Fromm, The Fear of Freedom

“Indeed, an astoundingly small proportion of arguments ‘for free speech’ and ‘against censorship’ or ‘banning’ are, in fact, about free speech, censorship or banning. It is depressing to have to point out, yet again, that there is a distinction between having the legal right to say something & having the moral right not to be held accountable for what you say. Being asked to apologise for saying something unconscionable is not the same as being stripped of the legal right to say it. It’s really not very f-cking complicated. Cry “free speechâ€￾ in such contexts, you are demanding the right to speak any bilge you wish without apology or fear of comeback. You are demanding not legal rights but an end to debate about and criticism of what you say. When did bigotry get so needy? This assertive & idiotic failure to understand that juridical permissibility backed up by the state is not the horizon of politics or morality is absurdly resilient.â€￾
― China Miéville

“It is depressing to have to point out, yet again, that there is a distinction between having the legal right to say something & having the moral right not to be held accountable for what you say. Being asked to apologise for saying something unconscionable is not the same as being stripped of the legal right to say it. It’s really not very f-cking complicated. Cry “free speechâ€￾ in such contexts, you are demanding the right to speak any bilge you wish without apology or fear of comeback. You are demanding not legal rights but an end to debate about and criticism of what you say. When did bigotry get so needy?â€￾
― China Miéville

“You can't pick and choose which types of freedom you want to defend. You must defend all of it or be against all of it.â€￾
― Scott Howard Phillips

“Tolerance, which is one form of love of neighbor, must manifest itself not only in our personal relations, but also in the arena of society as well. In the world of opinion and politics, tolerance is that virtue by which liberated minds conquer the evils of bigotry and hatred. Tolerance implies more than forbearance or the passive enduring of ideas different from our own. Properly conceived, tolerance is the positive and cordial effort to understand another’s beliefs, practices, and habits without necessarily sharing or accepting them. Tolerance quickens our appreciation and increases our respect for our neighbor’s point of view. It goes even further; it assumes a militant aspect when the rights of an opponent are assailed. Voltaire’s dictum, “I do not agree with a word that you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it,â€￾ is for all ages and places the perfect utterance of the tolerant ideal.â€￾
― Joshua Loth Liebman
"The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane." Marcus Aurelius, Roman Emperor and stoic philosopher, 121-180 A.D.
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Postby publicduende » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:09 pm

ladislav wrote:Gentlemen, this discussion is derailing into a bit of an emotional sparring contest. This could all have been avoided had you stuck with statistics and hard numbers. Outside of that everything becomes an opinion and a personal observation. Also, many Filipinos and Fil-Ams, as well as many Americans do not like hearing foreigners criticizing their country. My country, right or wrong! There are all these stereotypes and assumptions flying here and there, as well.

My personal observation is - since 1991- a year when I arrived in the Philippines for the first time, and now, huge changes took place, but some things stayed the same, and some got worse- like traffic for example, but those are my personal observations. I do not have stats, though. Whether the Philippines is doing good, bad should again be based on some stats, at least in comparison with the neighboring countries. Indonesia recently overtook the Philippines in GDP per capita which may mean something but may not. Each country needs to capitalize on its strong points.

What they Philippines ala New Zealand- it was a good idea to invite all the Koreans to study as well as all the Iranians. That's a lot of money into the country's coffers. Promoting itself as a cheap alternative to Western education with no visa problems, no cold weather and no social isolation is a great idea. VN, Indonesia, Cambodia etc. cannot do that. Also, presenting itself as an English speaking retirement destination is a good thing. More needs to be done in developing both areas.

New Zealand invited what seems to be half of Korea to study there, and Australia brought in many hundreds of thousands of rich Chinese- all to take courses in English. This is a great direction and is money without having to build any industries except housing and classrooms. That is where RP will have no competition at least among its neighbors.

As far as the imperialism by Kanos, many Filipinos just lap it up. They love American music, American culture ( or what they think it is based on Hollywood movies) and see America as a standard, not some neighbor such as Singapore for example. Just about everybody thinks America is superior. Going to the US and getting a US passport is a dream for so many. On the radio its mostly American songs. The neighboring countries such as Malaysia, Indonesia and Singapore have all gone thier own way and do not love the ex-colonizer as much.

The US style 4 year college is no longer as effective and needs to be stream-lined and oriented by market realities. Also, the RP became independent before the Civil Rights movement so, they did not pass strong laws to protect their people- there is blatant age discrimination as well as other types of discrimination which keeps huge numbers of work force unemployed. There are also many people who are still stuck in the agricultural frame of mind- they have many kids, no medical insurance and hope that things will work out the way they did in the old times, but you can no longer do it in industrial or information age.

So, some things have improved but there is room for improvement. One thing to attract tourists would be to do what Thailand did- promote itself as a very exotic Asian country and a great Asian culture. The Philippines has great dances, local cultures and music on par with Thailand but because the locals are not proud of it, it's not being developed. For example, Indonesia has this to offer to tourists:

Image

The Philippines is still far behind.

As far as bashing goes, everybody does it. Do you think Filipinos do not bash Saudi Arabia when they live there? How about the USA when they live there? Same thing. It's not easy to live in another culture.


This is the kind of wiser, more balanced view a mature expat who lived enough time in a country should be expressing. Thanks for landing the tune to better chords.

See, one of the more odious parts of the usual anti-Pinoy rants is that the country is still labeled as a hopeless pit of failed social policies, corruption and political gridlock despite all the macroeconomic indicators pointing to solid growth, a safer and more transparent economic environment, improved investor confidence.

So guys, let's shell out some of these figures, just a few...

1) the Philippines have growth 6.9% and 6.7% last year, and the people who criticise the fallacy of those indices should then feel even more concerned about the sub-1% growth posted by US and much of Europe;

2) the Philippines Stock Exchange Index (PSEi) has touched its historical maximum of 7000 last December - I remember it very well because I read the news on the Manila Bullettin under the Samal sun - and is constantly flirting with 6800 as of now; somebody who invested in stocks like AyalaLand in 2006 would have seen his value almost quadrupled, and the average return on equity on the entire index has been of a very healthy 7 to 9% annual;

3) the 2) happened without ANY overt or covert currency manipulation from the Philippines Central Bank; no QE, no operation Twist and Rock'n'roll; just pure equity growth based on fundamentals, better credit rating and healthy prospective returns;

4) with a debt to GDP ratio of 40%, the Philippines are one of the least indebted countries in the world; now, I am not holding my breath on this, but just imagine how much the government could achieve in terms of infrastructure building/revamping if they started to pump up that ratio a little bit, maybe up to 50%: a growing economy, lower interest rates to pay due to improving credit rating and...

5) ...last but not least, a government-owned Central Bank - the PI are one of the few countries whose monetary policy is entirely within the government's hands, not some obscure private organisation like the Fed, the ECB or Bank of England.

6) the Philippines have a vast pool of resources still untapped, in fact even a lot less tapped than Malaysia and Indonesia. It won't remain untapped forever, especially when all the quality engineers and skilled labour will choose to come back from the Emirates and give a new pulse to their home economy.

7) every dollar that's produced locally, every dollar (or Euro, or Dirham) that's remitted back into the Philippines is an EQUITY dollar; although this is changing a bit now, Filipinos don't like debt, and this is from government to family level; Americans buy iCrap with their 11th credit card, Filipinos give money to their patriarchs to buy lands and build large houses...equity through and through. In 10/20 years we will see who is laughing.
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Postby OutWest » Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:11 pm

If someone wants some meaningful insight into conditions here in the Philippines, the link posted above by Mr S is on the money.

http://getrealphilippines.com/blog/2011 ... rofitably/
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