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Why filipinas want men 36+

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.

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MrMan
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Re: Why filipinas want men 36+

Post by MrMan » February 28th, 2017, 5:24 am

Lorenzo wrote:Interesting that you bring this up, I was going to write on this topic.

Short answer: She is legit in her comments. Throughout SE Asia women prefer a more established man 5-12 years older (not 20+). They see him as more secure in his career, stable, and the big one - less likely to cheat and chase other women. It's all about security. Asian when are very pragmatic when it comes to relationships.

The above does not hold for Korea where many women seek younger partners for their virility...this is rooted in ancient practices where a 28 yr old woman would be mated to a 18 yr old boy.
Koreans say that back during the time of the Mongol invasions, the Mongols would cart off the Korean virgins. So they'd marry off the girls as best they could. Men died in battle, so they'd marry 10-year-old boys to 16 or 20-year-old girls. I saw a TV drama/comedy about this kind of marriage once in South Korea.

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publicduende
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Re: Why filipinas want men 36+

Post by publicduende » February 28th, 2017, 5:25 am

retiredfrank wrote:@pd: as you can see, others guys with experience in the Philippines agree with me. Namely, contrary to your assertion that things have changed radically in the Philippines, the change has actually been small. In all societies, there are women who go for older men. Not just the top .001% as you hysterically assert. Top 10% is sufficient. When I wrote "it happens all the time". I meant something like Chamta's 1 in 20 couples will have a 20 year age difference, which is 5%, which is a lot, more than my own estimate in fact.
Frank, is English your first language? You keep misreading my statements. The 0.001% refers to extraordinarily well-aged men who have the money, the talent and the charisma to bag very attractive girls half or a third of their age. I might be 10%, 12.666%, you make the percentile, but you will agree I am no Sean Connery or Tom Cruise, and never will be.

Apart from throwing figures, I actually do agree with you and everybody else in here if age and a slim body are the ONLY "quality factors" concerned. In the Philippines I have seen plenty, plenty of men in their 50s, 60s and even 70s pair up with girls in their 20s. If it makes you happy, I can tell you I would put the number of foreign-Pinay couples with an age difference of more than 20 years to even more than 1/20. In Davao it's more like 1 in 3 or 1 in 4. So I am not disagreeing on this particular point.

What I am suggesting is that the kind of young ladies these mature-to-old gentlemen are hooking up with are, almost inevitably:

- of the dark skinned or native-looking ("Lumad", here in Mindanao) type, which local men are very happy to leave to us foreigners (and not without a giggle);
- of very modest to poor/destitute family backgrounds;
- uneducated and clearly unable (or, more often, unwilling) to find a job to support themselves, let alone their families;
- unable to engage in anything more than simple conversations about everyday life needs (cooking, money, maybe kids when they have them) - of course this doesn't mean they won't be devoted wives and loving mothers;
- (often) familiar with being with a foreign chap, hence aware of what they need to do to keep him happy and by their side.

As I am "hysterically" trying to explain, post after post, my disappointment comes from my inability to find a girl who is not just young (and pretty), but also intelligent, decently-educated, from a non-destitute family and, most importantly (that's the real challenge) genuinely in love with me for who I am, not for what I can do for her or her family.

Based on my own experience and that of men my age (or older) I have met and talked to, it's very rare and very hard to find a girl who ticks beyond the age box, who is more than a tanned sexy trophy and could keep the man entertained beyond bed gymnastics. In the Philippines, if a girl has other qualities, including a good education and family background, 90% chance is she will NOT go for a man who is older than her mama or papa. And I place a very generous 10% uncertainty because I don't know the whole of the expat community in the country and may well bump into a man who managed to be with a girl of that quality.

I hope this is the last time I have to clarify my stance on this.
retiredfrank wrote:The magic of the Philippines and similar places was and continues to be that guys who are merely top 30% or whatever in the west suddenly become top 10% in the Philippines. Maybe in the past the boost was larger, so that even really low quality whites were considered gods, but in your case the change doesn't matter. You are intelligent, you have a career, you are not grotesquely fat and missing half your teeth like that guy on the greyhound bus I mentioned in the other thread. You are still getting the boost to top 10% and therefore you are reaping the rewards of being in the top 10%. Namely, young atttactive girls are easy to obtain. Stop trying to tell people that the Philippines is ruined and the western god factor no longer applies, because this is simply not true.
Maybe 15+ years ago, when very few people had smartphones and social media were in its infancy, any white man would be treated as a demi-God. Right now every girl who is pretty and/or smart knows her "global" value very, very well. Lately Davao is being literally flooded by young and good looking studs, so her benchmarks are easily set upwards, no need to dream and guess. And if she can choose Brad the 26 years old from Vancouver on a sex-filled vacation over Dave the 58 years old white collar from Leeds looking for his third wife a third his age, chances are she will.

If a man is intelligent, has a career and is not grotesquely shaped, he will probably stick to his job and come to the Philippines for a few weeks to scout for the best possible girl his status can get him, if he hasn't already earmarked her before by chatting her up on a website or by referral. He will woo her the best way he can, show what's on the table for her (including the much-coveted notion of moving abroad) and the naturally pragmatic, calculating nature of the female mind will do the rest.

The real point, though, is that even when he does find her, she will probably be of the above-described type and her interest for him will be limited to his ability to support her. The stereotype of the 50+ man who can get unlimited young & pretty girls who deviate from the above-mentioned profile, and for short flings only, is thought porn and only in your mind.
retiredfrank wrote:Being in the top 10% or top .001% has never and will never guarantee a man can get every woman to love him, or even that he can get any woman with whom to experience true love. This is a straw man argument that you erected for your own reasons. You mention younger men who got women like you wanted but cant get, but you have no idea as to why the woman chose those men, whether age or personality, or even if you would really be happy with those women if you could get them.

This gets back to what I and Rock hinted at long ago, that much of your motivation is ego. You want to impress people that you scored a young hottie. Well, you did score several young hotties and you even posted their pictures for all to see and be impressed. So these girls aren't ambitious. If you got the ambitious girls, there would be some other flaw I'm sure.
Considering I have been constantly referring to the two girls (the morena and my current date) as failures, that's hardly a strategy to boost my ego, don't you think? As you yourself say, scoring a young hottie who is "just" a young hottie isn't much to impress anybody. Anybody can do it, in the Philippines. Absolutely anybody.

If by "ambitious" you mean a girl who has a brain and uses it, has completed her education (college here ends at 20) and has an opinion on something beyond local food and the latest TV artistas...hell yes, I am looking for one! And I won't settle for less, for a long-term relationship.

Believe me, my bar is set much lower than you think. It is not as easy as some of you guys think. The reason why some of you keep seeing the Philippines as paradise is, simply, because you feel contented (resigned?) at the idea of having a girl whose only qualities on offer are just a young age and a slender body, and little else in the way of personality and genuine feelings/attraction towards you.

Forgive me if I sound unforgivingly arrogant, but I can't settle for just that. I tried and tried, and just can't. Maybe, in time and if I have time, I might check either Metro Manila or the deep province out. I am not ruling out that I will find her, eventually, and my view on inevitability will change. But given my current work/life situation, I just won't cut it.
retiredfrank wrote:What you are discovering is the same thing PUAs discover. When impressing other people is your primary motivation, the bar keeps getting set higher and nothing you do is good enough and you are always unsatisfied and jealous of other men. This is why you drag in these examples of Sean Connery and other .001% men and cry "woe is me, the Philippines is ruined, etc". You're the counterpart to those women on dating sites for whom no man is good enough because he didn't tick all the boxes. True love isnt about checking all the boxes and it usually doesn't result when you pick a partner primarily so as to impress other people.
I mentioned Sean Connery and the 0.001% in reply to a post mentioning Mel Gibson and her hot young gf. Please take my references in context.

True love is certainly not about finding the hottest young thing who is willing to have sex with a man twice or thrice her age and fake feelings because she needs food and shelter.

When I find a girl who comes from a family who never asked foreigners for money, who has a decent degree and a worldview of some sort, who is decent looking and who has shown me, with facts not smooch words, that she loves me for who I am, that's a good candidate for true love, in my book.
retiredfrank wrote:You probably do need a long period in monk mode. Then, when you are ready to try again, maybe you should scrap that checklist and focus on women whose company you really enjoy, regardless of age or "hotness". The boner test is real, but I suspect you are mainly using this as a way to exclude all the woman who wouldn't impress other guys. Women can be very attractive at age 35. Childless career women that age would probably be a much better match for you than women age 25, given that you've previously stared having your own children is not going to happen and you don't seem like the type who really gets excited by at the idea of raising adopted kids. The downside is you wont be able wow everyone by a big age difference. Droid and Jester (if hes still around) will laugh at you for choosing a woman who's "past the wall" instead of a young one. If the career woman never was a beauty, and perhaps even is a single mother, you'll get more scorn, same as happened to Falcon. The thing is, because you've had your fun with the young hotties, with photos to impress people with, this scorn will roll right off your back. Cant accuse someone of sour grapes who actually tasted the grapes and found they were indeed sour. "Sour grapes" applies to only those who never had the opportunity to taste the grapes.
That's what I have been telling you: I enjoy company of girls when they're a good mind and a good conversation, although the boner test is always real. Those girls are not easy to find as you think and when I did find them, they were all inevitably engaged, married or uninterested. Filipinos are not stupid, they know when a girl is real, all-round quality, they will have snapped her up way before you can say "salamat".

Childless career women who are still single in their 30s are quite common in Japan or South Korea, maybe China, but definitely not the Philippines. Most of those I met are single moms and, for how interesting types they are, their lifestyle and carb-laden diets makes them pretty out of shape. Boner test fail.

Dude, one last time in a polite manner, I have nothing to prove to anyone. Not you, not Droid nor Jester nor Falcon, not myself. The only thing I have to prove to myself, and the few people who are supporting me in this hard-as-f*ck journey, is that I can create a viable business. And if I will have to go monk, as you say, or wait till I have the time to date in Manila or Sultan Kudarat or Singapore, I will.

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Re: Why filipinas want men 36+

Post by retiredfrank » February 28th, 2017, 6:03 pm

I'm not that knowledgeable about the Philippines, so I don't know much about Davao, but if it's really the backwater you make it out to be, I'm surprised you chose to start your business there rather than Manilla.

Anyway, it doesn't matter how many young studs flood Davaos or anywhere else. There is always a shortage of men in the top 10%, for reasons I explained in my hypergamy post. If you are top 10% anywhere, getting quality women 20 years younger is not difficult. Definitely true in New York, London and similar big cities of the developed world, and probably in Manilla too. I can guarantee there are some top 10% women from Davao who didnt get selected in the first round by top 10% men of their own age (because, as duscussed in the hypergamy post, those top 10 men can marry down to maybe top 30% without loss of status but women can't marry down at all without loss of status). Maybe these leftover women moved to Manila, maybe they married down and took the loss of status, maybe they married older filipino men (top 10% from previous generation, hence no loss of status). It is possible that, as a foreigner, pd cannot qualify as top 10%, in which case he is S.O.L. Otherwise, he should be able to get a top 10% girl based on being top 10% man of previous generation. If SOL, then he needs to focus on being top 10% somewhere, because that is the real ticket to top 10% women. (And yes, I'm throwing out these numbers to illustrate my point. Obviously, there is no sharp break between 10% and 11%, no official organisation to define what % a person is, everything that I sau about top 10% applies more strongly to top 1% and still more strongly to top .1%, etc. % rank is to be interpreted as mating market value, which emmphasizes money and social position for men, both of which are associated with intelligence, focus on looks for women, plus good breeding stock).

30 year old top 10% career women who want children are often anxious to trade their youth in exchange for stability and high social status. Such 30yo women dread the idea of marrying a guy even slightly below their own social status and then having marital disputes about money once children are born. There is no stigma attached to a 30yo woman who marries a 50yo man in the developed world, provided the man is truly top 10% in wealth and social status and isnt a fat slob. Older women may hate her, but she can laugh at then. If the older starter husband starts to slow down physically in his mid-60s, she can ditch him then, in favor of young hunks: the cougar phase. Perhaps young hunks in the Phillipines. After all, we live in an age of women's liberation and equality of the sexes, at least in developed countries.

30 year old top 10% career women who don't want children and are not doing as well financially as they had hoped will also go for older men, but now there has to be an explicit transfer of material benefits in exchange for her youth. Dont dismiss such arrangements off-hand. The best of these 30 year wannabe mistresses will have multiple suitors, all of whom she finds sexually attractive. If you want to be the chosen one, you have to sweeten your offer. The sweetener doesn't mean there isn't true love, in the sense of true sexual attraction. You need to reflect on this some. You have the PUA mentality that paying is somehow degrading to the man.

Maybe high quality 30yo single career women dont exist in Davaos like in New York, London, Tokyo, Singapore, Manilla. The key thing, wherever you go, is to be in the top 10% in terms of wealth/income and to be in good physical condition (lean and muscular like a tennis player, not like a steroid-filled bodybuilder). That second criteria (good condition) is easy and something you should do anyway for your long term health. The first condition is thus the important one, with arbitraging between developed and developing countries as a short cut into the top 10% wealth/income (earn in a rich country, spend in a poor country). Which means, yes, publicduende should probably focus on his business for now.
Last edited by retiredfrank on February 28th, 2017, 7:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why filipinas want men 36+

Post by publicduende » February 28th, 2017, 7:34 pm

retiredfrank wrote:I'm not that knowledgeable about the Philippines, so I don't know much about Davao, but if it's really the backwater you make it out to be, I'm surprised you chose to start your business there rather than Manilla.
It's not a bad city to live in, especially if you are looking for a saner, lower-cost life. Less hustle and bustle, less sophistication, less cultural and metropolitan life...but many people prefer it precisely because of that. It's not that bad a place to start an IT business, either, being the 3rd largest city and a large talent pool, only second to Metro Manila and Cebu.

On the flip side, lack of corporate jobs conducive to careers means there are far, far less of those classy and well-maintained 30-years old single women you are referring to in the rest of your post.
retiredfrank wrote:Anyway, it doesn't matter how many young studs flood Davaos or anywhere else. There is always a shortage of men in the top 10%, for reasons I explained in my hypergamy post. If you are top 10% anywhere, getting quality women 20 years younger is not difficult. Definitely true in New York, London and similar big cities of the developed world, and probably in Manilla too. I can guarantee there are some top 10% women from Davao who didnt get selected in the first round by top 10% men of their own age (because, as duscussed in the hypergamy post, those top 10 men can marry down to maybe top 30% without loss of status but women can't marry down at all without loss of status). Maybe these leftover women moved to Manila, maybe they married down and took the loss of status, maybe they married older filipino men (top 10% from previous generation, hence no loss of status). It is possible that, as a foreigner, pd cannot qualify as top 10%, in which case he is S.O.L. Otherwise, he should be able to get a top 10% girl based on being top 10% man of previous generation. If SOL, then he needs to focus on being top 10% somewhere, because that is the real ticket to top 10% women.
I really don't know if I qualify as 10%...finance-wise of course I can flex more muscle than the 10% of the general population of Davao, if that's what you mean. Fitness-wise I am reasonably in shape, certainly more in shape than the average 30-yo Davaoeno! :) In pure Latin American patriarchy style, men here really tend to let themselves go after they have secured themselves the quality woman they need. Women just follow suit.

My real problem, which borders the tragic, is my lack of time and - not least importantly - peace of mind required to explore my dating options consciously and systematically. That's why I will always fare worse than the average tourist - of comparable age and status - who comes here with the frame of mind of doing nothing but relax and look for the best available girls to fulfil his goal (be it short shenanigans or looking for a long term partner).
retiredfrank wrote:30 year old top 10% career women who want children are often anxious to trade their youth in exchange for stability and high social status. Such 30yo women dread the idea of marrying a guy even slightly below their own social status and then having marital disputes about money once children are born. There is no stigma attached to a 30yo woman who marries a 50yo man in the developed world, provided the man is truly top 10% in wealth and social status and isnt a fat slob. Older women may hate her, but she can laugh at then. If the older starter husband starts to slow down physically in his mid-60s, she can ditch him then, in favor of young hunks: the cougar phase. Perhaps young hunks in the Phillipines. After all, we live in an age of women's liberation and equality of the sexes, at least in developed countries.

30 year old top 10% career women who don't want children and are not doing as well financially as they had hoped will also go for older men, but now there has to be an explicit transfer of material benefits in exchange for her youth. Dont dismiss such arrangements off-hand. The best of these 30 year wannabe mistresses will have multiple suitors, all of whom she finds sexually attractive. If you want to be the chosen one, you have to sweeten your offer. The sweetener doesn't mean there isn't true love, in the sense of true sexual attraction. You need to reflect on this some. You have the PUA mentality that paying is somehow degrading to the man.

Maybe high quality 30yo single career women dont exist in Davaos like in New York, London, Tokyo, Singapore, Manilla. The key thing, wherever you go, is to be in the top 10% in terms of wealth/income and to be in good physical condition (lean, tanned and muscular like a tennis player, not like a steroid-filled bodybuilder). That second criteria (good condition) is easy and something you should do anyway for your long term health. The first condition is thus the important one, with arbitraging between developed and developing countries as a short cut into the top 10% wealth/income. Which means, yes, you should probably focus on your business for now.
You are talking about career women in their 30's as if they were prime choice LOL In Japan, Korea, perhaps China and Singapore, there are doctors, lawyers, academia women who missed the opportunity to marry at the "socially accepted" age and do face the problem that men see them too old and perhaps a bit too intimidating to marry them. If I were to have those countries as my dating pool, I would agree with you totally.

Unfortunately the Philippines is where I'm at at the moment and that category of women is very rare to find. The idea of being a mom no matter what your professional ambitions and social status are is deeply, deeply seated in the Filipino woman mindset. Believe me or not, women who get busy with their careers would rather give up the idea of marriage and be single moms, than give up the idea of remaining childless. I have nothing against single moms per se, but it's very, very common for Filipinas to lose their physical shape beyond repair as soon as they have one or two children. Plus their lifestyles and mom status mean they have little time in the way of romance, however eager they might be about hooking up with a man like me.

Again, this is the Philippines: I have been around Metro Manila in the good professional circles enough to notice it. There are so few single career women in their 30s that are unmarried for a reason that is entirely down to their professional and time management choices.

It would be different if I were in Japan or Korea, China or Singapore. But then, as you say, being top 10% in those countries is quite a different (financial, socio-cultural) platform compared to an emerging economy like the Philippines. I lived in Singapore and, as a place, it has all the bad vibes of Chinese materialism and cynicism blended with American materialism and cynicism. If you're a highly paid professional in the financial industry, or an executive working for an multinational with a good (and rare) expat package, you can live the life of Riley in Singapore. Otherwise, Singapore is a lot like London: an expensive toy with a lot of gimmicks but very little "general playability" without showing off the dosh.

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Re: Why filipinas want men 36+

Post by retiredfrank » February 28th, 2017, 8:05 pm

I edited my previous post to clarify what I meant by % ranking.

Anyway, this discussion with pd has been fruitful, I think, in clarifying where I'm going. Kiev is the sort of place that is filled with 30-40yo unmarried career women, plus 35-40yo single mothers whose children are now almost fully grown. Many of these women are very careful to keep their good looks--they keep hoping that will be their ticket to easy street. And they are educated, cultured, etc, unlike filipinas. The key is find them and then properly negotiate that part about the sweetener. Dont want to offer money too soon or too crudely, don't want to be dismissed as a cheapskate. Certainly dont want a 30yo anxious to settle down and have children, which is what I met several times last summer. Should probably also rule out those 20yo's who are fascinated by my lifestyle, met several of those as well--they're just a distraction since I never follow up. And no hard core escorts either, they are too burned out by their crazy lifestyle.

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Re: Why filipinas want men 36+

Post by publicduende » March 1st, 2017, 6:22 am

retiredfrank wrote:I edited my previous post to clarify what I meant by % ranking.

Anyway, this discussion with pd has been fruitful, I think, in clarifying where I'm going. Kiev is the sort of place that is filled with 30-40yo unmarried career women, plus 35-40yo single mothers whose children are now almost fully grown. Many of these women are very careful to keep their good looks--they keep hoping that will be their ticket to easy street. And they are educated, cultured, etc, unlike filipinas. The key is find them and then properly negotiate that part about the sweetener. Dont want to offer money too soon or too crudely, don't want to be dismissed as a cheapskate. Certainly dont want a 30yo anxious to settle down and have children, which is what I met several times last summer. Should probably also rule out those 20yo's who are fascinated by my lifestyle, met several of those as well--they're just a distraction since I never follow up. And no hard core escorts either, they are too burned out by their crazy lifestyle.
Thank you for engaging me, Frank. I also learned that, however firm my opinions are on Filipinas and the condition of adult foreigners like me, I can't just sit and moan forever. I will have to adapt to the hard facts:

1) I am not young anymore and, however hard I can try keeping in shape, keep good stamina and immune systems levels etc. - only a tiny minority of young woman (Filipina or worldwide) will actively want to pursue me;
2) because of 1), I can't expect a woman, especially a girl in her mid-20s, to like me physically - chemistry towards me will have to be hard earned and built on qualities other than physical attraction: intellectual connection, assertiveness, sense of responsibility, down to the omnipresent financial capacity.

As I wrote on some other post, the sooner I realise that this is the reality I cannot change it, in fact it can only get worse over time, the sooner I can suck it up and act accordingly.

You say you're targeting Ukraine and high-quality ladies their 30s to early 40s, who are definitely not in their prime, and yet you mention that you will have to "properly negotiate" your way to their hearts and minds and their nether parts. I think you are right, it's a negotation: infatuation can't happen, chemistry can't be but circumstantial and, at least in my case, I might be tempted to ask them for something they can't or won't give me. So far being considered as just a bedroom diversion by an under-educated 20-something years old, who won't want to be seen in public with me, hits me hard like a kick in the groin. In time, I might not only desensitize but just take the good of the experience and quickly move on.

The only thing that saddens me from the onset, the hardest part which seems to easy for you, is the fact that I will have to give a girl so much more than she would give me, to make her fall in love for me... Like those stories from Rock's posts, of men who took years, and a life abroad, and kids, and heaven knows what more, to be finally acknowledged as an active part of their gfs'/wives' happiness.

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Re: Why filipinas want men 36+

Post by Rock » March 1st, 2017, 1:17 pm

A quick note on Duende's last post.

When I used to live in Taiwan and observed many scenarios over time, it occurred to me that in earlier stages of courtship or dating between local people of similar ages (20s), the guy would in majority of cases put out most of the effort and work over weeks, months, even years, to win over the girl who was often was indifferent to just mildly interested/curious.

Over time, especially if the guy did not make any bigger mistakes, consistency would pay off. The girl would grow to at least depend on his being there for her. At a certain stage, especially if the guy started to cool off, the girl would consciously realize that she had feelings for him and had become somehow emotionally dependent on his being there. All of a sudden, she would panic if the guy stopped calling her and even send out clear signs she wanted him back. From this point onward, power balance often shifted in favor of guy. I even saw cases where guy would take advantage of the situation and start to use the girl or even get pay-back for the earlier days when she was aloof or testing him. But more generally, the guy would not change too much and they would emerge as a solid couple. Eventually engagement and marriage would follow.

My last Taiwan ex had a 22 year old sister who got courted by a new guy after she and her boyfriend from uni broke up. That guy was a couple years older than her and spent several months just to get to dating stage. After a few more years, he finally got her to marry him. But it took him a lot of effort and work.

Perhaps Duende you were a real stud muffin in your younger years. Good on you. But for a lot of us guys including me in Taiwan, we usually had to put in some work to win over the girl we wanted. Sure, there were girls who fell into our laps. But usually, they were not the ones we really wanted except once every so often when luck was on our side. So most of my Taiwan exs were my exs because I initially put in some work and won them over with some time. Same goes for my exs or current girl in Philippines.

I guess out of pride, you want a girl to fall for you on sight, because you are some exotic latin hunk. That generally only happens to guys at the very top of their physical prime. Of course, some other guys have a high degree of charisma or natural charm which draws girls to them even when they do not have a magnificent physical form or are well past their prime. They too are just lucky in that way.

Take some time off and visit China. There you will often see funny looking or plain looking dudes with cute to hot girlfriends/wives. The best built and most handsome guy will get a lot of compliments thrown at him. But he won't automatically get dates or love from the local women he encounters. There's a lot more to the equation.

I realize Italy, Colombia, and a lot of other Latin based cultures tend to be very superficial equating a person's value with their style, appearance and dress. Apparently you grew up in this environment. So maybe it's very difficult for you to believe a girl can grow to love you if she doesn't lust after you on first encounter.

Connecting with E/SE Asian girls is not nearly as physical form based as it is with Latinas. I think you came to Asia too late in life to ever truly get this. But travel around the region more and open your eyes. Interview married local couples where the wife is cute or hot. I'm sure you can find plenty of cases where the girl was not initially attracted to the guy but loves him now.

What really matters to you, the process or the end result? Are you too proud to put in time and work to maximize your chances of winning over a woman who you truly want to be with? Or do you wanna join the crowd of other westerners who picked some low lying Pinay fruit - the single mums, the dark and slim morenas with monkey faces, the girls who barely made it through high school, those provincial types with prematurely aged skin and a mouth full of false teeth, etc.

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Re: Why filipinas want men 36+

Post by retiredfrank » March 1st, 2017, 4:26 pm

I want to add one last note, because I see plenty of light at the end of the tunnel, PROVIDED publicduende succeeds with his business. I think he is severely underestimating how attractive he would come across to highly educated career women age 30 in Tokyo, etc who happen to have a thing for European men, as descendents of the gods who dominated the world from year 1500 to 2000, and who are sick of the Tokyo or wherever rat race and wouldn't mind moving to sleepy tropicsal Davao as the wife of a successful business owner. I also think there's a ton of women like that in Tokyo, etc, just as in San Francisco and Washington, DC, where I lived for 5+ years each and which are both filled with these 30yo career women who expected to be living the sex and the city lifestyle but who are actually finding it difficult to find men they consider acceptable as sexmates (that hypergamy thing). I also think he overestimates the appeal of blonde-haired surf dudes in their 20's whose idea of showing a girl a good time is to get wasted on brewskis then prematurely ejaculate (assuming they arent impotent from said brewskis) then pass out and snore all night long. What is working against pd now, namely that he's just some boring local guy, no longer applies of pd takes a business/leisure trip to Tokyo, etc. He becomes this very interesting exotic international business man who offers a young woman light at the end of her own dark tunnel of commute, work, commute, eat, sleep alone, repeat.

Like Rock, I think pd should reflect some more on what "alpha" or top 10% really means to quality educated women, especially in Asia. Money and business success are powerful aphrodisiacs to many women, especially in Asia, far more so than youthful skin, full head of hair, pretty face, etc. There is nothing degrading to the man in using his wealth and power to win a woman versus using his looks. It's the male stripper types who are vaguely ridiculous in most people's minds, not the bald 50yo business man with 30yo model on his arm. Reflect that earned (versus inherited) wealth and power is an indication of character and intelligence, which are just as important as looks. Also, looks are mainly important to women insofar as they will determine what a child looks like. If no children or if pd was handsome when young, his present looks don't really matter. This is a case where photos are useful, to show the woman what pd looked like when young.

That said, keeping the body in shape is important, more so than having a pretty face, so I will now share two tips which are worth more than everything I have written so far in these threads concerning pd.

First is sexual kung fu, which I have discussed before here at HA but whose importance cannot be overstated. Every man past the age of 30 should carefully read and re-read Mantak Chia's two books on cultivating male and female sexual energy. Be sure to buy some "jade" (actually, any stone or stainless steel will do) eggs for your women friends (available at amazon, be sure to read the reviews since some of these vendors are selling junk).

Second, there is no need for gym equipment or weight lifting to keep the body in good shape. As Tapatio correctly pointed out long ago, in most parts of the world, big muscles are associated with lower class men who do manual labor, and the upper class prefers the lean but muscular tennis player physique. The most important body weight exercises are: free-standing handstand (1 minute), upward facing bow or gymnastic bridge pose (1 minute), isometric kegel exercises while sitting in lotus pose (3 minutes). This is not a complete exercise program, since you need some warmups and stretching to prepare for the bridge and lotus, plus there are some muscle groups it doesn't cover. However, if you do these three exercises daily as part of a complete program lasting 15-20 minutes, you will be in better shape than 90% of the men in any age group. In particular, handstand will ensure you don't get fat since it is difficult to perform handstands when even slightly overweight. And these body weight exercises can be performed anywhere. I even perform then outdoors while camping, including in sub-freezing weather.

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Re: Why filipinas want men 36+

Post by publicduende » March 3rd, 2017, 2:42 am

Rock wrote:A quick note on Duende's last post.

When I used to live in Taiwan and observed many scenarios over time, it occurred to me that in earlier stages of courtship or dating between local people of similar ages (20s), the guy would in majority of cases put out most of the effort and work over weeks, months, even years, to win over the girl who was often was indifferent to just mildly interested/curious.

Over time, especially if the guy did not make any bigger mistakes, consistency would pay off. The girl would grow to at least depend on his being there for her. At a certain stage, especially if the guy started to cool off, the girl would consciously realize that she had feelings for him and had become somehow emotionally dependent on his being there. All of a sudden, she would panic if the guy stopped caller her and even send out clear signs she wanted him back. From this point onward, power balance often shifted in favor of guy. I even saw cases where guy would take advantage of the situation and start to use the girl or even get pay-back for the earlier days when she was aloof or testing him. But more generally, the guy would not change too much and they would emerge as a solid couple. Eventually engagement and marriage would follow.
I agree, Rock, that is what I have observed too. The number of girls who want to take all the time of their lives to evolve from the stage where they're totally indifferent to the young man, to the stage where they're walking to the altar to meet them, is very high. I also know of plenty of cases where the girl goes from zero to "I'm yours" in the space of a few dates, out of the kind of spot decision they are used to making: based on attraction, intuition and the feeling of the moment.

Then whether that intuition is right and their (blind, largely) trust is well placed, time will tell. Time always tell.

Asian or Colombian, I think playing hard to get (her) and the game of courtship (him) is OK for a few dates, a few weeks at most. If the subtle and less subtle signals are there, that she likes you and teases or dares you to go ahead, then good: another day another round, and we boys can hang in there a little longer and savour the taste of future reward.

But if the signals aren't there and the girl is simply treating her suitor like in one of those old comedy sketches - where the poor little salesman goes back and forth a hundred times, popping out all sort of fancy merchandise from his briefcase hoping that at least one item will turn the customer's head around - that's no good. That game is just degrading and, even if successful, is guaranteed to have set the bar unfairly for the relationship to progress.

Here's where I disagree with you, at least based on my experience. A girl doesn't realise "she has feelings", a girl either has feelings from the beginning, probably from even earlier than the man, or she feels the void when she the constant stream of attention and care slows down or stops. Thats when she realises that she was taking all that effort for granted and, if the boy is still there by that stage and not completely infatuated, he might turn the situation around to his advantage.

But then the real question is: is she worth it? If I had found a girl who ticks all the brains and beauty (and perhaps youth) boxes and comes from a family of dignity and culture, not necessarily wealth, I would have probably done the same crazy things all men do: spend endless dates talking to her, mindful of finding and highlighting the slightest bits we share, impressing her with whatever I am and whatever I have, and promising her undivided attention and loyalty. If she is worth it, she is worth it.

And then corollary question: if she is not (completely) worth it, where do we stop?

Why do you think I feel so disappointed and jaded?

18 months here and I could not meet one, a SINGLE woman who I believe fully worth my courtship. And not because I am such a special snowflake, but simply because I realised that women available for me are inevitably of the type I would never see myself having a relationship with.

As Retiredfrank said below, to get the higher value women I would have to show money and success, which is precisely what I chose to give up by moving over here. Golden goose slaughter argument again.
Rock wrote:My last Taiwan ex had a 22 year old sister who got courted by a new guy after she and her boyfriend from uni broke up. That guy was a couple years older than her and spent several months just to get to dating stage. After a few more years, he finally got her to marry him. But it took him a lot of effort and work.
Maybe this is the norm in Taiwan, among good girls. Maybe she was worth spending months courting. Do you know her? Can you comment on that?

The only girl I ever talked to (never met in person) from Taiwan was many years ago, when I was still in Milan. She was very hot and physical from the onset, we had a lot of a steamy cam sessions, yet I couldn't be convinced to go visit her in Taipei. At the time I wasn't prepared to travel the other side of the world to have sex with an Asian - how things have changed since then! :) LOL
Rock wrote:Perhaps Duende you were a real stud muffin in your younger years. Good on you. But for a lot of us guys including me in Taiwan, we usually had to put in some work to win over the girl we wanted. Sure, there were girls who fell into our laps. But usually, they were not the ones we really wanted except once every so often when luck was on our side. So most of my Taiwan exs were my exs because I initially put in some work and won them over with some time. Same goes for my exs or current girl in Philippines.

I guess out of pride, you want a girl to fall for you on sight, because you are some exotic latin hunk. That generally only happens to guys at the very top of their physical prime. Of course, some other guys have a high degree of charisma or natural charm which draws girls to them even when they do not have a magnificent physical form or are well past their prime. They too are just lucky in that way.
Wait wait :) I have never been a stud even in my younger years. I was the quick-witted, happy go lucky guy in my teenage years and had a bit of a persona due to my involvement with leftwing politics, music and journalism. That all changed around 2000 when I moved to the UK and finished my Masters. My life became a lot plainer and uneventful.

I have always found it natural that at least 30% of the "matching power" is based on physical attraction. I understand physical attraction towards an adult man like me would rank lower if the girl is young and has options with younger men. Perhaps part of me is still naively thinking that, just because I look a bit more youthful because I hit the gym regularly and don't gorge on rice and pork belly like most Filipinos my age, I could compete with men in their late 20s.

As I said in other posts, my biggest mistake comes from thinking that qualities, other than financial security and willingness to spend them on the girl, would be sufficient to impress the kind of girl I need. It's easy to just label a girl who is young, pretty, well educated and from a good family, a "gold digger". If she has what it takes to be with a high-value young man, young and from a well-off family, on what basis should she choose me instead?

Of course I could easily outgun those kids and even those families if I start flashing the cash, but at my age I risk looking like the typical sugar daddy looking for young flesh, and would automatically attract those kinds of girls (it happened in the past). Plus, like I said above, relinquishing most of the financial security I had in London made me an undesirable hyrid: too old to lure a young hottie into a physical relationship, yet not stable enough to lure her into a committed relationship that could feel a better choice than just hooking up with a middle or upper class local.
Rock wrote:Take some time off and visit China. There you will often see funny looking or plain looking dudes with cute to hot girlfriends/wives. The best built and most handsome guy will get a lot of compliments thrown at him. But he won't automatically get dates or love from the local women he encounters. There's a lot more to the equation.

I realize Italy, Colombia, and a lot of other Latin based cultures tend to be very superficial equating a person's value with their style, appearance and dress. Apparently you grew up in this environment. So maybe it's very difficult for you to believe a girl can grow to love you if she doesn't lust after you on first encounter.
I don't think I would like China much. I would get the leftovers anyway, even if, admittedly, most of said leftovers would be of better quality than the quality Filipinas I am chasing here. My main problem there is that it would be impossible to even open the kind of business I have here. Life-wise, it would be a jump off the cliff kind of choice, worse than this one.

Perhaps a better middle ground would be Singapore, which is a highly westernised version of China and Malaysia, but the women here would be even more demanding. Making money in SG is increasingly hard due to the crisis. I should have thought of moving there when I had a chance, some 8 years ago.

It's not that in Southern European and Latin American cultures we are superficial, Rock. It's the opposite: maybe it's Asian cultures who are steeped in Confucianist pragmatism and see relationships and marriage as a transaction based on financial stability and hard work, and little else. I was genuinely convinced that the Philippines would be the happy middle ground between Asian pragmatism and Latin American warmth, but I now realise the Latin American heart is mostly present in the lower class girls who I just can't see myself with for the longer term.
Rock wrote:Connecting with E/SE Asian girls is for a huge percentage of girls is not nearly as physical form based as it is with Latinas. I think you came to Asia way to late to ever truly get this. But travel around the region more and open your eyes. Interview married local couples where the wife is cute or hot. I'm sure you can find plenty of cases where the girl was not initially attracted to the guy but loves him now.
Apart from the hot Taiwanese girl of yesteryears, I am very much aware of that. Again, I thought the Philippines was a better ground for relationships based on physical/sexual attraction. Unfortunately, this is true only for the lower class girls who I might only like for a fling or fubu arrangement, at best. And those girls, if good looking, aren't surely going for an older man like me. Davao is full of young studs nowadays, people like us have no hopes.
Rock wrote:What really matters to you, the process or the end result? Are you too proud to put in time and work to maximize your chances of winning over a woman who you truly want to be with? Or do you wanna join the crowd of other westerners who picked some low lying Pinay fruit - the single mums, the dark and slim morenas with monkey faces, the girls who barely made it through high school, those provincial types with prematurely aged skin and a mouth full of false teeth, etc.
The end result, of course. But, knowing that process is long and laborious and will result in a woman who isn't even worth all that "labour of love", doesn't exactly fill me up with energy and motivation...

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Re: Why filipinas want men 36+

Post by publicduende » March 3rd, 2017, 5:19 am

retiredfrank wrote:I want to add one last note, because I see plenty of light at the end of the tunnel, PROVIDED publicduende succeeds with his business. I think he is severely underestimating how attractive he would come across to highly educated career women age 30 in Tokyo, etc who happen to have a thing for European men, as descendents of the gods who dominated the world from year 1500 to 2000, and who are sick of the Tokyo or wherever rat race and wouldn't mind moving to sleepy tropicsal Davao as the wife of a successful business owner. I also think there's a ton of women like that in Tokyo, etc, just as in San Francisco and Washington, DC, where I lived for 5+ years each and which are both filled with these 30yo career women who expected to be living the sex and the city lifestyle but who are actually finding it difficult to find men they consider acceptable as sexmates (that hypergamy thing). I also think he overestimates the appeal of blonde-haired surf dudes in their 20's whose idea of showing a girl a good time is to get wasted on brewskis then prematurely ejaculate (assuming they arent impotent from said brewskis) then pass out and snore all night long. What is working against pd now, namely that he's just some boring local guy, no longer applies of pd takes a business/leisure trip to Tokyo, etc. He becomes this very interesting exotic international business man who offers a young woman light at the end of her own dark tunnel of commute, work, commute, eat, sleep alone, repeat.

Like Rock, I think pd should reflect some more on what "alpha" or top 10% really means to quality educated women, especially in Asia. Money and business success are powerful aphrodisiacs to many women, especially in Asia, far more so than youthful skin, full head of hair, pretty face, etc. There is nothing degrading to the man in using his wealth and power to win a woman versus using his looks. It's the male stripper types who are vaguely ridiculous in most people's minds, not the bald 50yo business man with 30yo model on his arm. Reflect that earned (versus inherited) wealth and power is an indication of character and intelligence, which are just as important as looks. Also, looks are mainly important to women insofar as they will determine what a child looks like. If no children or if pd was handsome when young, his present looks don't really matter. This is a case where photos are useful, to show the woman what pd looked like when young.

That said, keeping the body in shape is important, more so than having a pretty face, so I will now share two tips which are worth more than everything I have written so far in these threads concerning pd.

First is sexual kung fu, which I have discussed before here at HA but whose importance cannot be overstated. Every man past the age of 30 should carefully read and re-read Mantak Chia's two books on cultivating male and female sexual energy. Be sure to buy some "jade" (actually, any stone or stainless steel will do) eggs for your women friends (available at amazon, be sure to read the reviews since some of these vendors are selling junk).

Second, there is no need for gym equipment or weight lifting to keep the body in good shape. As Tapatio correctly pointed out long ago, in most parts of the world, big muscles are associated with lower class men who do manual labor, and the upper class prefers the lean but muscular tennis player physique. The most important body weight exercises are: free-standing handstand (1 minute), upward facing bow or gymnastic bridge pose (1 minute), isometric kegel exercises while sitting in lotus pose (3 minutes). This is not a complete exercise program, since you need some warmups and stretching to prepare for the bridge and lotus, plus there are some muscle groups it doesn't cover. However, if you do these three exercises daily as part of a complete program lasting 15-20 minutes, you will be in better shape than 90% of the men in any age group. In particular, handstand will ensure you don't get fat since it is difficult to perform handstands when even slightly overweight. And these body weight exercises can be performed anywhere. I even perform then outdoors while camping, including in sub-freezing weather.
Thanks for the health and gym tips Frank. I have never been a big fan of muscles myself and never, ever took any muscle enhancers, not even creatine. I prefer lean muscle.

About your idea of dating broads in Tokyo Japan. I am very attracted to Japanese women but, due to the way society is structured there, there is no chance in hell I will be able to find a young unmarried (ie. not divorced and with kids) woman and convince her to leave everything and come here to Davao.

Of course if, and it's still a big-gish if, I am successful with my company, I might be able to live in Singapore, in Tokyo, or in Davao, and travel around. I really don't see this happening before 2020, though. Very hard.

The easy option would be to unwind everything, move back to London and re-establish myself as a contractor/consultant, although the halcyon days are long gone there and I will have to pretty shit work to make some decent money. Then on that platform, start re-advertising myself in the Philippines.

Point is, though: my naivety about finding a top quality Filipino girl is long gone. Will I accept to be someone's sugar daddy, knowing full well it will be a mostly distance relationship and she will be free to f**k anybody she likes (perhaps for extra gimmicks/cash) when I am not around?

I agree that money and power are the ultimate aphrodisiac for Asian young women...especially if not else is left when you take them off the equation :)

It's a limbo kind of life for now, Frank. I think the best thing I can do is meditate a bit, find some inner peace and accept my situation. Try to invest a little bit of money on myself, for a change. Eat even better and be even more systematic with my diet/workout routines. Get the right kinds of supplements (I am already trying a colostrum/probiotics mix and it's pretty good), and perhaps top it off with some minor retouches. I have quite a bit of wrinkles on the side of my eyes and they are recommending me I try Botox. Will probably give it a try, as soon as I have some spare cash.

A they say, if Purgatory has to be, I may as well furnish my cell.

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Re: Why filipinas want men 36+

Post by gsjackson » March 3rd, 2017, 4:26 pm

Try olive oil first on the side wrinkles. Botox can distort your face.

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Re: Why filipinas want men 36+

Post by MrMan » March 3rd, 2017, 4:52 pm

publicduende

What is the crisis that makes it increasingly hard to make money in Singapore?

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Re: Why filipinas want men 36+

Post by publicduende » March 3rd, 2017, 6:33 pm

gsjackson wrote:Try olive oil first on the side wrinkles. Botox can distort your face.
Gosh olive oil? Won't it end up smelling :) I'll Google for it, thanks.

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Re: Why filipinas want men 36+

Post by publicduende » March 3rd, 2017, 6:37 pm

MrMan wrote:publicduende

What is the crisis that makes it increasingly hard to make money in Singapore?
The financial sector, which is one of the two engines that feeds the Singapore economy (the other one being sea freight and logistics), is in crisis. Half of the foreign banks in Singapore have closed or dramatically resized. The better placed ones are actually the public or semi-public ones like Development Bank of Singapore (DBS) and Oversea Chinese Banking Corporation (OCBC), but their IT operations are tiny compared to what the likes of Credit Suisse, Citi or Standard Chartered could absorb.

I could still find something there, but for my seniority level it's gonna be hard. And you need a lot of money to live comfortably in SG, at least 160K SGD a month.

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Re: Why filipinas want men 36+

Post by gsjackson » March 3rd, 2017, 7:03 pm

publicduende wrote:
gsjackson wrote:Try olive oil first on the side wrinkles. Botox can distort your face.
Gosh olive oil? Won't it end up smelling :) I'll Google for it, thanks.
You're close to the age I was when I started doing facial exercises to build up the muscles of the face. You can find them all over the internet. I think they're essential for an aging face. The thing about wrinkles is what direction do they take your face. If it's downward, a collapsing face losing its muscle tone -- catastrophic for attracting women. If it's upward, you're still in business, regardless of how many lines the face has.

As for olive oil, anecdotally -- I did this facial exercise called a smile up, where you press your hands against the temples and try to forcefully lift every part of your face. It was recommended that vegetable oil be put on the temples while doing the exercise to avoid exacerbating the side wrinkles. I observed afterwards that the oil made those side wrinkles far less noticeable. A couple years ago I saw an interview with an old guy in his 90s who didn't appear to have a line in his face. Said he put olive oil on his face every day for decades. If you've googled it you will have seen that the practice and theory behind it have been around for a long time.

There are lots of things that can be done for an aging face besides poisoning it with botox. They take a little bit of time and effort, but not too much. I believe that lifting the face up with muscle tone is the best.

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