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China's Unfireable English Teachers

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.

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Postby travelsouth » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:57 am

tre wrote: HOWEVER, things are different for a 40 or 50 year old going abroad to get that same 19-25 year old women. If that older man wants to keep his woman, he'd better NEVER bring them back to the USA. The chances are MUCH greater that he will lose her....


I'll leave the politics alone and disagree with you on the career aspect. If a guy is 40 or even 50 transport companies will send him to a short truck driving school to learn to drive semis. There are lots of local (state-wide) driving opportunities to be home every night. Or there are even straight truck routes I've seen that will pay 50k and are just day jobs. You don't even need school for a straight truck. If you haven driven an rv or pulled a boat you can figure out a straight truck fast. One easy computer test to get the permit... a little bit of practice... then just go pass a driving test. Done deal you got a real career. No excuses.
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Postby Ghost » Tue Oct 29, 2013 3:57 pm

travelsouth wrote:Guys you all really need to do your homework on this. From what I've seen most china teaching jobs are realistically 1k to 2k a month (unless you have a teaching degree and those international schools will pay a bit more). In South Korea I think it starts at around $2200 to $2500 and around the same with Japan.

This is only a job for some guy in his 20s in a bad economy that needs something to do. There is no promotion, retirement plan, quality healthcare etc. And even if you make 24k a year that is shit long term.

I got no issues with guys that take $10 or $12 an hour jobs on elance so they can go get laid in Thailand. Heck on rare occasion there are even online customer service management and screen jobs that pay $15 or $16. But to think you can earn a real living and save for retirement doing this is just not true.


Most of the jobs are between $1000-$1500 a month in China, and it makes you rich compared to the locals. 24k a year is quite good unless one is bad with money. I'd love to be making 24k a year. In America even, I could live on that easily. Not saying it's a fortune, but it's pretty good unless one lives in a major city, a bad idea by many accounts. There are actually promotions and pay increases in ESL jobs as well.
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Postby momopi » Tue Oct 29, 2013 5:02 pm

For comparison, in China the statutory minimum wage per month in Beijing is $200 USD, Shanghai $230 USD, and Shenzhen $240 USD (RMB 1500) in 2012.

Shenzhen's minimum wage is said to be the highest in China. So if you're making $1,000 USD/month, you're getting 4 times the highest minimum wage in the country.

Apple's contractor, Foxconn, paid their employees around $350-$400 (RMB 2,200 - 2,500) per month starting pay in late 2012. After deducting room and board expenses, take-home pay was reported around $258 (RMB 1,600).

Nissan Motor Company and Honda Motor company pays basic wage of $333 per month in Wuhan, in 2012. A $1,000 salary is 3 times of an auto-worker's pay at Japanese company in China.
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Postby travelsouth » Tue Oct 29, 2013 6:50 pm

momopi wrote:For comparison, in China the statutory minimum wage per month in Beijing is $200 USD, Shanghai $230 USD, and Shenzhen $240 USD (RMB 1500) in 2012.

Shenzhen's minimum wage is said to be the highest in China. So if you're making $1,000 USD/month, you're getting 4 times the highest minimum wage in the country.

Apple's contractor, Foxconn, paid their employees around $350-$400 (RMB 2,200 - 2,500) per month starting pay in late 2012. After deducting room and board expenses, take-home pay was reported around $258 (RMB 1,600).

Nissan Motor Company and Honda Motor company pays basic wage of $333 per month in Wuhan, in 2012. A $1,000 salary is 3 times of an auto-worker's pay at Japanese company in China.


I hate to say it but these are all weak sauce arguments because I am not Chinese. Heck the min wage in Mexico is around 5 dollars a day. But go to the hip areas of Mexico City and see how far that gets you. American food costs the same there as it does in the USA. Even good local restaurants cost a bit. I don't want to live like a local. I wouldn't want to live in a shithole in Mexico nor would I want to do it in China.

Go back to my above post on jobs. Companies will pay for your training if you want to learn a skill. Even if you just want to drive a truck they'll pay you to do that. A high school drop-out can make decent cash if he'll even just drive a truck. The money we are talking about in China teaching is not sustainable to live the "American Dream". (at least my version where the fat AW gets ignored for the foreign hottie without all the credit card debit and student loans)

There are only a couple reasons a guy can't make good money in the States. 1. He is lazy. 2. His city was hit hard and has very high unemployment so he needs to relocate to a nearby community 3. He is unaware of the current professions that are hiring and the opportunities that are out there for free training and certification.
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Postby Cornfed » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:01 pm

travelsouth wrote:Go back to my above post on jobs. Companies will pay for your training if you want to learn a skill. Even if you just want to drive a truck they'll pay you to do that. A high school drop-out can make decent cash if he'll even just drive a truck.

Are you sure about that? In my area most truck driving jobs require X years of experience. Why would they train you when there is a surplus of skilled workers available and they can just import workers from overseas? Unless you were going to fill some affirmative action quota, why would they train you? It is like handing you money. Often they can't train you and expect you to bring skills they don't have to the table. You must be living in an exceptional area or be in some kind of protected class if this is the case for you.

There are only a couple reasons a guy can't make good money in the States. 1. He is lazy. 2. His city was hit hard and has very high unemployment so he needs to relocate to a nearby community 3. He is unaware of the current professions that are hiring and the opportunities that are out there for free training and certification.

This is really really stupid. If you look at the participation rates, over a third of the potential male workforce in Western countries is essentially unemployed. Suppose they stopped allegedly being lazy. Would scores of millions of jobs magically be puffed into existence in order for them to gain employment? What is your explanation for the events of 2008? Did millions of previously hard working and savvy people wake up one morning and suddenly, for no apparent reason, find that they were lazy and/or had forgotten how to get jobs? Are people overthrowing governments in the Middle East and setting themselves of fire in Greece etc. just because they are too lazy to turn up to work in the morning? What is supposed to happen when hundreds of thousands of jobs are outsourced to China or automated, as you can see on the news all the time? Is an identical number of jobs automatically magically created for the workers somewhere else, and the only reason they don't take them is that they have suddenly become lazy, having previously been hardworking? With un/underemployment having been a major problem all around the world for the last 40 years or so, surely it is not too much to ask people to at some point pull their heads out of their asses and acknowledge that there is a systemic problem.
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Postby travelsouth » Tue Oct 29, 2013 9:12 pm

Cornfed wrote:
travelsouth wrote:Are you sure about that? In my area most truck driving jobs require X years of experience.


Then you need to do your homework because many technical recruiters and companies are absolutely begging for skilled labor. I'll let Mike Rowe explain it to you.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls1YhhMHdNY[/youtube]


Dude you need to stop complaining and making excuses because I know for a fact and have seen jobs available that nobody wants nor is skilled for. There is a class b truck driver job they'd like to get filled in my area right now. You drive a garbage truck to commercial businesses and pick up the dumpster trash. It's easy to learn to drive those and it pays well. No experience needed just a b license.

No offense but you really need to educate yourself. Transportation is just one example but it is true.

http://chicago.craigslist.org/chc/trp/4152787596.html

Class-A CDL Students Needed for Team Dedicated Run!

Train, drive great miles and kick start your driving career with this great dedicated fleet!

As a class-A CDL trucking student, CRST is offering to train you while you drive this great dedicated run. Get great miles, consistent freight and guaranteed home time.

* CRST's biggest pay increase EVER!
* We pay for your trucking school and CDL license!
* Get your CDL-A in as little as two weeks!
* The best student program in the industry
* 28 days out with a lead driver upon completion of training
* 5500 6000 miles / week
* Guaranteed home time every 2-3 weeks
* Great benefits
* Paid meal plan program
* Must be at least 21 years old
* Industry leading safety program

This is just one example. There are better jobs right out of the gate that are local or regional. But for a young guy with nothing going or a middle aged guy needing a big paycheck this will work. Then in the future once you have the license you can get a local or regional job where you are home every night.
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Postby tre » Wed Oct 30, 2013 7:52 am

travelsouth wrote:I'll leave the politics alone and disagree with you on the career aspect. If a guy is 40 or even 50 transport companies will send him to a short truck driving school to learn to drive semis. There are lots of local (state-wide) driving opportunities to be home every night. Or there are even straight truck routes I've seen that will pay 50k and are just day jobs. You don't even need school for a straight truck. If you haven driven an rv or pulled a boat you can figure out a straight truck fast. One easy computer test to get the permit... a little bit of practice... then just go pass a driving test. Done deal you got a real career. No excuses.


I am not disagreeing that there are OK jobs available in the USA. It is definitely easier to get a higher pay in the USA as a US Citizen than it is to get a decent job abroad. If that weren't the case, I'd be away from the USA right now. There are many jobs available that exceed $20/hr after a year or so of experience. My argument was that those who are 40 or 50 aren't likely to ever make $80K+ if they aren't already making it. If you can't make great money in the USA, why stay in the toxic environment?

If I were to make a choice between driving a semi-truck all day, everyday and making $40K-$50K/year or moving abroad and making $20K-$25K, the decision would be an easy one....I'd be going abroad. Driving constantly is not good for anyone, especially older men who have high incidences of prostate troubles (which gets worse when sitting for long periods). Also, IMO, moving abroad would be a better decision for older men as then they can keep their women OUT OF THE USA. My argument is that bringing an attractive YOUNG women into the states as an older man is a bad idea that should be avoided. There is a big chance that you will spend that time and money to find that women and bring her back only to lose her in the USA to some younger, richer man....
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Postby luoldeng9 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 3:23 pm

tre wrote:I think you are correct about focusing on qualifying yourself if you are 15-25 years old. There is time to qualify yourself and find your niche. No need to jump ship until you have qualifications that can help get a better life...no matter where you choose to reside. However, what about those guys here that are past 35 or even past 40 and 50 and making very little in the states? They aren't likely to ever make $80K+ if they aren't making it now. For those men, I can't see any benefit of staying in the toxic environment of the USA when they can live on less, have better medical insurance, and make the same amount of $$ abroad than what they do in the USA. Even if they made slightly less, they'd actually be able to save more if living abroad. That is why so many teachers have moved abroad instead of sticking around to teach in the USA. They can actually pay off their loans much faster this way. ..

You are only 30 and it sounds like you are doing quite well here. It makes sense for you to stay here, establish and grow your career. You could potentially go abroad, date a 19-25 year old, attractive women and bring her back with success. She may be fine and happy here with you. HOWEVER, things are different for a 40 or 50 year old going abroad to get that same 19-25 year old women. If that older man wants to keep his woman, he'd better NEVER bring them back to the USA. The chances are MUCH greater that he will lose her....


I'm not so sure guys in their 20s should stay in the US even if they have decent jobs where they can make alot more money than English teachers. For some of us, the social environment, not just the dating scene, is just unbearable.
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Postby travelsouth » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:14 pm

tre wrote:
travelsouth wrote: If that weren't the case, I'd be away from the USA right now. There are many jobs available that exceed $20/hr after a year or so of experience. My argument was that those who are 40 or 50 aren't likely to ever make $80K+ if they aren't already making it. If you can't make great money in the USA, why stay in the toxic environment?


This is the problem. People just want everything handed to them without getting the proper training and putting in the work (a whole year of experience before you get paid the big bucks LOL... oh my). The training in many cases is free and companies are looking to fill their jobs with people willing to learn the skill and do the job. All you have to do is learn the skill and do the work. Maybe the training is a couple weeks or many the training is 1 or 2 years at the community college. 6 figures is always the challenge for many... but 50, 60m or 70k... possible for anyone that actually listens to technical recruiters and trains for the right career. Simply not comparable to 1500 bucks teaching in china.
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Postby travelsouth » Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:21 pm

luoldeng9 wrote:
tre wrote:
I'm not so sure guys in their 20s should stay in the US even if they have decent jobs where they can make alot more money than English teachers. For some of us, the social environment, not just the dating scene, is just unbearable.


A guy working for an American company abroad or for an international school has a good situation overseas. Those situations are few and far between. And guess what folks that requires specialized training and experience. See oil and gas jobs and certified real teaching jobs. So either way if you want to make it in the States or overseas you need the right training and skills.

There are some small and medium sized communities in the Midwest that aren't that bad. The dating scene sucks sure, but the social environment isn't by any means unbearable. The best women are overseas and the best jobs are in the States. That makes things a bit challenging but not impossible to manage.
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Postby jamesbond » Wed Oct 30, 2013 5:03 pm

travelsouth wrote:The best women are overseas and the best jobs are in the States. That makes things a bit challenging but not impossible to manage.


I agree the best women are overseas and the best paying jobs are in the states.
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Postby xiongmao » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:07 pm

I earnt about $5 yesterday. But I AM NOW LIVING IN BANGKOK. For the second day in a row I've gone to bed after 3am.

How much awesome have you done in your lives?

Yesterday Falcon and I went in a bar. We were the only 2 customers. There were 10 bar ladies to serve us.

Yeah, sometimes you just gotta get your priorities right. Money is important, but having fun, well you can't put a price on that!
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Postby travelsouth » Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:11 pm

xiongmao wrote:I earnt about $5 yesterday. There were 10 bar ladies to serve us.


How far did that $5 get you?
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Postby momopi » Wed Oct 30, 2013 9:35 pm

travelsouth wrote:I hate to say it but these are all weak sauce arguments because I am not Chinese. Heck the min wage in Mexico is around 5 dollars a day. But go to the hip areas of Mexico City and see how far that gets you. American food costs the same there as it does in the USA. Even good local restaurants cost a bit. I don't want to live like a local. I wouldn't want to live in a shithole in Mexico nor would I want to do it in China.


I doubt anyone will argue the lower pay in China. But it is a place to get your foot through the door. In China you have the choice of getting your burgers and fried chicken at McD's and KFC, or spend less at Dico's & Hua Lai Shi. Perhaps those in China currently can provide a price and quality comparison.
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Postby Cornfed » Wed Oct 30, 2013 11:35 pm

travelsouth wrote:This is the problem. People just want everything handed to them without getting the proper training and putting in the work

No that is not the problem. People are getting absurd amounts of training. The problem is that most of the time when they get the training there are no freaking jobs. Are you black or something? Maybe what you are saying is indeed the problem with blacks. Not so much other people.
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