Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.
if you really want to quickly find out the intentions of a filipina the best way is for another filipina to befriend her. if your investigative filipina should ask the target for advice regarding her own foreign bf then what is likely to ensue is the target bragging about her own bf.. or multiple bfs.. for some reason filipinas love to brag to other filipinas about their accomplishments even if its scamming....
I don't think it is wise to give too much trust to someone you haven't even met in person. Online is just a beginning. I've seen guys fall in love and get engaged to gals online and sometimes it works. But I don't think I could ever do that. If I develop some feelings for her online, I'm gonna go see her and try to develop the relationship via old-school face to face dates and encounters. The computer is just a search and initial screen device as far as I'm concerned.
This is a nice strategy, not just because the scammer might like to brag to other girls, but because a Filipina can just tell what another one is like.
I like the analogy of uniforms. Everyone wears uniforms. You can tell who a lawyer is or a blue collar guy or a computer engineer. Same with a hooker or gangster. You don't even have to think about it - your life experience tells you. In another culture you may not recognize the cues and uniforms. But if you make Pinay friends, they will know. They will tell you that the girl doesn't look like a good one. You will ask why and they won't be able to explain it - but they will know.
is it just me, or does Rock really seem to have it out for me and my business? LOL Winston already mentioned to everyone a few times that Iâ€™m a personal friend of his (for over 5yrs, i might add), and so I should be given some basic credibility here, and be cut some slack. But, Rock still seems to have a problem with EVERYTHING. He even tried to post a competitor's website and direct people over there (even though that site doesnt bother to disclose its rates; but that doesnt seem to bother him). Now, he wants to seal the deal by offering to help anyone out himself for free. LOL
Hey, I know there are some people who might not need this kind of service and prefer to do it all themselves to save a few bucks. I get it. If you have lived in Phil for years, know your way around, have already built up a network of trustworthy friends and government contacts, and are ready to call in some favors with them, if you have all the surveillance equipment, if you have the time to really plan out a strategy, and then the time to follow all the leadsâ€”but most importantly, if you trust that you are going to get all of it right on your first time and not miss anything (and then potentially end a relationship based on your â€œfindingsâ€),....then, hey, more power to you! Knock yourself out! Maybe I will even hire you some day! haha
The reality is that most people donâ€™t live in Phil and may have only been here a few times, if ever. They may have only met their girl online. So, they donâ€™t know their way around, they donâ€™t know all the tricks that Phil girls like to pull, they havenâ€™t built up a network of reliable contacts that they can rely on, and they donâ€™t have the time to think out and execute a long strategy because they have jobs and other commitments. They just want someone whoâ€™s there on the ground, who has been through all of this already, who has staff that have been trained and ready to go, and who will turn around with answers quicklyâ€¦no mess, no fuss.
Itâ€™s just like some people who like to fix their car themselves. If you want to spend the time to rip apart your car yourself at home to find the problem, if you have all the tools you are gonna need, if you have a buddy who can come over and help you, if you are confident you can find the problem and can get all the parts you will need, fix the problem, then put everything back together properly again, not to mention cleaning up the mess...if you want to do all of that yourself to save a few bucks, then, hey, knock yourself out.
But, most people have jobs and family commitments and just donâ€™t have the time to do all that, they certainly donâ€™t have all the tools and the parts on hand, they donâ€™t swim through pages of owner's manuals to figure out what needs to be done, they are not confident that they know enough to actually fix the problemâ€¦and they donâ€™t want to take the chance on screwing up their car even worse. They prefer to just drop it off at the garage, give a few bucks to the mechanic who has all the tools and experience to get the job done, and then just pick up their car fixed and ready. No mess, no fuss.
So, hey, if you are the kind of person who prefers to do things yourself and save a few bucks, then..go nuts! Or if you have a buddy who offers to help if you buy him a meal, then sure, why not? Just keep in mind that most buddies will do that once or twice, not more than thatâ€¦and they will do it when THEY are free, not necessarily when YOU need it. And if they start it, but then something comes up and they canâ€™t finish, well, you are just shit out of luck. So, the buddy system has its limitations. just like if you have a buddy who is a mechanic. You could ask him to come over and fix your car and offer to buy him a case of beer. But, you can only call in those favors once or twice, and only for minor things; plus, you would need to wait for HIM to be free, and not necessarily come when YOU want. And, if he leaves in the middle of the job and doesnâ€™t finish, or, god forbid, screws up your car even worse, you are shit out of luck, because u cant really get pissed at someone who was just trying to do you a favor, right?
Anyways, best of luck, everyone. Stay safe out there!
To Banano and Winston
yes, the failure rate is high. which is precisely why i tell you that so many of them (whether agents applying for a job, or girls getting a bf) see the short-term dollars first. this is precisely why we test them. it takes longer and most costs for us to do that, but that's why i say there is an overhead investment to get reliable people. but, once you get good ones, they are good.
but, the same goes for just asking a buddy to help you out and try to check your girl out, or pose as an interested party. you can never know if a buddy is totally on the up-and-up with you. maybe he never liked your gf from the start and takes it upon himself to feed you some bad info to make u dump her. or maybe he has a thing for her himself. or maybe he says he will help, but then didnt but doesnt want to say he didnt, so says he just didnt find anything...the buddy network has its own risks.
of course, asking a local for their insights would seem like a good idea. unfortunately, as i said, too many of them see foreigners as "outsiders" and not one of them, and so feel no loyalty.
let me give you an example. I once had my Pinay girlfriend bring over one of her friends, and the friend didnt know i understood tagalog. right there in front of me, she started telling my girlfriend (in tagalog) to make sure she is getting money out of me on a regular basis, and that she shouldnt just have 1 foreign boyfriend at a time, she should have more than one on the go!
This was RIGHT IN FRONT OF ME!.....it's like i wasnt even there, nor was i a person. she had so little regard for foreigners that she was advising the girl in front of her to make sure she scams as much as possible, almost as casually as advising her to about the best brand of shampoo to buy. the fact that a girl would even think to advise another girl something like this, let alone right in front of the man, speaks volumes about how how little regard many of them have for foreigners and how they see them only as walking ATMs. this was a girl who i had invited into my home, i had treated nicely, who was a good friend of my gf, but who still stood right in front of me and advocated for me being properly fleeced.
so, trusting a local friend to "feel things out for u" has a whole set of risks that are stacked against you
Donâ€™t take it personally air_king. I have nothing against you. Winston and I are good friends too. But there have been times when weâ€™ve practically gone at each otherâ€™s throats here regarding disagreements about â€˜the truthâ€™ on certain topics. This is a truth seeking forum. If you post anything questionable or attempt to mislead in anyway, you just may be challenged. Why not just address the challenge points directly instead of expressing general dismay? Perhaps you have a good explanation for at least some of them?
Yes you are Winstonâ€™s long-time friend which gives you some starting cred. But thatâ€™s not a license to misrepresent or over-charge. Iâ€™m sure Winston is keen to secure your advertising business. Yet I think even he agrees that at least some of your prices are too high for what the service entails and perhaps privately agrees with me on some of my other points as well.
Also, there are practical matters to consider. Oftentimes, when someone gets tricked into entering a room with a minor, itâ€™s a spur of the moment type deal if u know what I mean. Itâ€™s not like he can wait 5-7 days for your confirmation lol.
I consider the contributing members on this forum as friends and fellow HAers. If I need a favor, I may call on some of them to help. Likewise, Iâ€™m there for them. Iâ€™ve helped out Winston and certain others here before for free. Weâ€™re here to support one another, not take advantage. I know some Filipinos may think kanos and other foreigners are deeply naÃ¯ve and easy to take advantage of. But I hope you are not like that too regarding non-expat foreigners or newbie expats.
When you meet someone at a club or even P4P establishment and choose to engage in same night intimacy, you are taking a risk. Even if she is clearly 18 or above, she may be married. There is no sufficient time to perform due diligence with or without the help of a private investigator.
However, if you are building a relationship with a girl, then there is plenty of time to do all sorts of checking. Whatâ€™t the hurry to get intimate? Why not take your time and cover all your bases first? Here are some measures you can take:
- Ask to see and copy her Voters ID card from the Commission on Elections. This is an official card issued by the government to citizens 18 and above.
- Ask to see and copy her Postal ID card from the Philippine Postal Corporation
- Ask to see and copy her passport if she happens to have one
- Apply online (with her help) with the National Statistics Office e-census website for a birth certificate and CENOMAR using address and email of your choosing. Fees are 315 Pesos for birth certificate and 415 Pesos for CENOMAR for delivery within Phils. and US$20 and US$25 respectively if delivered overseas. Time it takes to receive the requested documents â€“ 3-5 working days in Metro Man, 4-9 working days in provinces, 5-8 working days overseas if you avail of special courier services (otherwise 6-8 weeks).
- Research her Facebook page and network with her friends, family, and classmates (the truths will come out if you do this effectively).
- Question her about her past and apply consistency testing.
- Apply independently with National Statistics Office through a trusted contact if you are sure you have her correct name.
If she has nothing to hide, there should be no problems with the above. If anything doesnâ€™t check or looks suspicious, step back and think about moving on.
Now records checking aside, if someone needs hardcore round-the-clock surveillance performed on a subject, then itâ€™s understandable how costs would run high. That can be a tough job which, depending on circumstances, often requires a high degree of street smarts, patience, professional detective skill, and even connections.
But if you misrepresent your firmâ€™s time in the business, personal language skills, and time on the ground or charge hundreds of US$ for something that costs just hundreds of Pesos, and it gets discovered and exposed, how can you expect potential clients to entrust you with the more complicated surveillance cases???
Don't take it personally. Rock likes to counter people and play devil's advocate a lot. He does that with everyone, even with girls he dates. lol. It's one of his annoying characteristics. But he does that with everyone, even here, so don't take it personally.
However, he knows you personally, and so do I, and I'm sure we both agree that you are not the type of guy who brags. It's not part of your personality.
Check out the latest posts in our blog The Happier Abroaders.
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"It takes far less effort to find and move to the society that has what you want than it does to try to reconstruct an existing society to match your standards." - Harry Browne, How I Found Freedom in an Unfree World
I like a spirited debate as much as the next guy, and i think i've spent the last week responding with many long messages in an attempt to answer as many questions and points as i could. But, Rock keeps repeating completely baseless assertions about me personally and about my business despite having ZERO knowledge of what he is talking about. It's getting into slander territory; or, at the very least, trolling.
he keeps repeating that i'm misrepresenting my language skills, my time on the ground, my business experience, etc, even though he has ZERO actual knowledge about any of these things. he assumes he is right about all of these things simply because HE PERSONALLY hasnt observed them, which is ridiculous. Just because you've personally never seen a polar bear, doesnt mean you can run around telling everyone they dont exist, or publicly accuse the Discovery Channel of lying to everyone! You said this forum values "the truth". Well, baseless speculation and insinuation are not truth, no matter how many times you repeat them!
Rock has also decided that my prices and cost structure are too high, even though, once again, he has ZERO knowledge of my business' cost structure, salaries, margins, etc. I suspect has never run a business and does not understand the concept of overhead, training, recruiting, licensing, etc. The cost of a burger on a menu isnt just based on the price of the meat and the bun, it includes the people to cook it, the equipment to cook it, the plates, the lights, the air con, on and on, not to mention the convenience of having a burger ready for you to order whenever u want. So, comparing a business' prices to what you could do yourself is never a fair argument.
but, finally, he makes the outrageous "insinuation" that he hopes i'm not taking advantage of anyone: "I know some Filipinos may think kanos and other foreigners are deeply naÃ¯ve and easy to take advantage of. But I hope you are not like that too". It's not right to insinuate something negative like that when you have never personally witnessed nor heard from anyone that i have ever taken advantage of anyone! It would be like me saying, "Gee, Rock, i really do hope you are not a pedophile!" Making insinuations like that in a public forum without a shred of evidence of its validity is simply irresponsible.
but, what annoys me the most is that even though I've spent the better part of a week, writing long long emails, attempting to address all of Rock's points, and other members' points, he still says: "Why not just address the challenge points directly instead of expressing general dismay? Perhaps you have a good explanation for at least some of them?"
good lord! i think any reasonable person could see that I've spent the past week and many many long emails doing my best to address as many points as i can. The fact that Rock somehow can say that i need to start addressing some of his points, means is just trolling. it reminds me of those clips of John McCain demanding to get someone to answer questions about Benghazi while there is an actual hearing on Benghazi going on at that exact moment in the very next room!
Rock, you cant keep repeating baseless speculation and pass it off as evidence. speculation is not the truth, not matter how many times u repeat it. and accusing me of not addressing your points, despite me spending the past week doing exactly that, is willfully antagonistic.
At any rate, i suggest that all of us proceed on this thread to discuss some experiences people have had, perhaps trade some useful advice or suggestions, rather than going around and around on personal speculation about me or my business. lets keep it constructive and positive from here on out.
Thank you to everyone
Here it is spelled-out below air_king. So instead of making general comments, just address the specific points directly below.
When I wrote, â€œWhy not just address the challenge points directly instead of expressing general dismay? Perhaps you have a good explanation for at least some of them?â€ these are the specific points I was referring to:
- Charge 19,000 Pesos for something a novice like me could do effectively for a tiny fraction of that amount
How is this baseless speculation??? I even explained some ways to do it. Why should a potential client care about your cost structure, business model, or how much you may pay in bribes as a kano? If he can get the same result easily for a much lower cost, guess where heâ€™s gonna go? Thatâ€™s capitalism baby.
â€œWe charge 19,000 Pesos to verify someoneâ€™s age or civil status.â€ Can you even say that with a straight face lol?
- misrepresent your firm's experience
In the About Us section of your website (http://www.loveprivateeye.com/about-us), you claim the following â€œWe are a professional and foreign-owned investigation service that has been operating in the Philippines since 2003.â€
Yet Winston has titled this very thread,â€ My friend's new Private Eye service in the Philippines!â€ Moreover, for all the time Iâ€™ve known you, you have been living and working in Taiwan!
Given the above, itâ€™s understandable how one would get the impression that your claim of operating as a PI in Phils. since 2003 is not consistent with being new or still living in Taiwan. Because according to Winston, you have not made the move yet.
So once again, how is this point baseless speculation?
misrepresent your time on the ground in Phils (15 years)
Early in this thread, you stated, â€œI have been in Philippines over 15yrsâ€.
From what Winston has told me, you have been in Taiwan most of the last 15 years with the exception of a couple years in the last decade. Didnâ€™t you tell me something similar as well?
So when were you actually in the Philippines? What years and how many months each year? If youâ€™ve spent anything close to 15 full years on the ground there, I will apologize to you in this very thread. And no, Taiwan does not count as Philippines lol.
misrepresent your language ability (fluent Tagalog)
Earlier in this thread, you wrote, â€œI speak fluentâ€¦Tagalog.â€
I admit, I speculated a bit on this one. And I still donâ€™t think you are able to speak anything remotely close to fluent Tagalog.
Iâ€™ve been around you both in Taiwan and Philippines. Why is it that you speak to Taiwan locals in Chinese but never speak even a word of Tagalog to Filipinos? I donâ€™t think Winston or Dianne has ever seen you speak any Tagalog either.
Well, you can easily prove me wrong on this point. Like I said, I can Skype you and have one of my friends chat with you a bit in Tagalog. If you really do speak the language well, my friend will tell me and I will apologize (profusely lol) right here in this thread.
As you can see from my explanations, thereâ€™s a lot more than â€˜baseless speculationâ€™ to at least some of these points Iâ€™ve made. So either consent by continued silence or explain how they are incorrect. Simple as that
I have to go along with Rock on this one, which doesn't happen that often
First of all I don't know why you believe that because you are a personal friend of Winston's that you should be "given some basic credibility here, and be cut some slack." Winston is a forum owner that most of us have never met. And even if I knew Winston personally, I would never hire a professional at $429 just because he was a friend of my friend. Going to your website, I would expect to find references that I could contact to verify the services you provided.
In fact the descriptions of your services were a bit vague. How is your marriage check any different from obtaining a CENOMAR? Perhaps it is different, but if so, you ought to call out what you actually do. Same with verifying a girl's age. What do you do? As to the bar girl investigation - I love that one. A guy wants a bar girl for his gf or wife and then gets to pay $429 to you to check if she is still working as a bar girl lol. Is the Pope Catholic?
Now personally I don't care one way or the other - I am not looking to hire a PI. I am just telling you what I might expect if I were considering hiring an investigator.
Just my thoughts here. Good luck on your business. Some guys should certainly consider hiring a PI.
Consent by continued silence? "continued"? there you go again haha
so, if i choose not to keep responding to all of your same points over and over again then i am admitting that you are correct? haha nice logic, Rock. So, if you call the Pope an athiest and he doesnt personally call you to refute it, then it means you are correct that he is an athiest. come one, rock. that is like grade school arguing. "I think you kissed johnny behind the school. if you dont deny it, then it must mean its true!" geez!
anyways, i dont think i'm going to respond anymore. you clearly are just going to keep doubting everything i say. and i have a business to run. all i can say (which i have said before) is that, if you think you can do these things yourself, and have the time and resources, and want to try to save some money, then knock yourself out! but, for people who dont have the time, dont want to be bothered, or who just want the convenience of hiring someone, then that is their choice, too. Just like you could spend all night at a bar trying to pick up a girl and buying her drinks all night and trying to be witty, or some guys just prefer to spend the money and get P4P. it's just a choice of how you want to spend your time.
beyond that, i dont know what else i can tell you. but, Winston has know me to be an honest businessman for over 5yrs. and, unless you can cite someone specifically that claims i have "taken advantage of them", then making insinuations like that are irresponsible.
you keep claiming certain small points that you are getting fixated on that are proof that i'm pulling one over. But, come on, if i really wanted to scam other foreigners, there are 1000 other much better, easier, and more lucrative ways to do it. i'm sure you personally can name several dozen that would be much more lucrative and less work-intensive than a private investigation firm.
At any rate, good luck to all of you. if any of you need our services some day for a girl you are getting serious with, just contact me. if you prefer to investigate her yourself, that is fine too.
Best of luck!
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