Why many white men get short end of stick with Thai women

[Rock]

And you do not know what's it like to be white in Asia.

Well I do! And from my own experiences, it seems you are spreading a lot of exaggerations and misinformation about Thai and even PI:

- First of all, you can put your language, race, and local experience cards right back into the deck. Cus I am a white guy who lives in Asia and understands Mandarin plus a fair bit of Thai and even a bit of Taiwanese.

- Why don’t I get called names in Thai these days the way you did 20 years ago? And I’ve been there a lot. What about my western friends living there, some of whom understand Thai. Is it like, as soon as the last one of them gets off the bus or BTS, all the Thais start saying all kinds of nasty things or behaving differently? Come-on Lad, reality check please!

- Just 3 weeks ago, I met ManInSiam - a decent looking and slim 6’1� Korean American, right in Bangkok. He had already been there for a month and spent a couple hours relating to me his experiences with local people and girls. From what he told me, he gets no special treatment relative to a similar looking white guy. It’s hardly been a paradise for him that you claim it should be as he’s struggled with finding work or getting very far with any of the few local girls he’s met.

- Name me just one entertainment venue in greater Bangkok that’s not ‘Japanese only’ which will refuse me entry due to my being non-Asian or non-Thai. If you cannot, please kindly let-go of your silly assumption that what held true in the early 90s necessarily holds true today in this regard. If you can, please name it and make it clear how I can find it as I will be back in Bangkok before the end of this month. I will definitely check-it out and report my experience. Put-up or shut-up!

- I don’t think it’s nearly as shameful as you claim for a decent looking lighter skinned middle class Thai girl to be seen in Bangkok with the right kind of white expat. If the guy is age appropriate, good looking, and dressed for success, many such Thai girls will feel totally comfortable I believe. I’m not 100% sure of this as I can’t read their minds. But even I have had some personal experience dating such girls and they never expressed any hesitation about meeting me in public or even where we might be seen by the girl’s social circle (work place or uni campus).

- As for PI, I have spent a bit of time there by now and have been corresponding with a few Filipinas including some middle class ones from Manila. From what most tell me, they do differentiate westerners. For example, I asked one of them how she would respond if a presentable western stranger approached her in public to get her number. She told me she would assume he’s just after sex and do her best to make a quick exit. But not so if he’s Filipino. When I got into a conversation with middle class Filipina sitting next to me on plane from LA to Manila, I asked her whether any of her immediate family members were married to or dating westerners. She told me no, they all went for ‘love’ instead of ‘money’. And she herself was divorced from a Filipino. Yet she still was not interested in finding a western guy. She told me she did not wanna be like one of those ‘gold digger’ girls or prostitute herself. She believed in love or nothing which she implied could only happen with a guy who looked and acted Filipino. Many of the other interactions I’ve had with middle class Filipinas or Filipinos suggest a similar theme. The white whore mongers and sugar daddies have damaged our image in PI. We are perceived in a bad way by those who are self-sufficient or as a mark by those who need our help.

- You may claim that a whole new world opens up there for the westerner once he learns Tagalog and/or Visayan. But I’ve gotta wonder. If that’s true, why do you, a speaker of both those languages, choose to live alternately between Ermita and Angeles City – the 2 most notorious lower-end international whore districts in the PI?

- A lot of PI girls have told me adamantly that they would not consider dating a black guy. But I thought race was a non-issue in PI. In contrast, I’ve met several Chinese girls in southern China recently who told me, it’s fine with them, that black are people just like anyone else. One of them even dates Africans. Now I realize that mainland Chinese are know for being race conscious and many will rule-out blacks or even other westerners as dating prospects (Winton’s recent experiences suggest this too). So I just find it interesting that as of late, I’ve run into more racist particular Filipinas than Chinese, at least as far as dating is concerned.

- One thing I will say in favor of Filipnas/os is that many do seem very easygoing and happy. I appreciate that quality a lot as it contrasts strongly to the more serious environments of several other Asian countries. But that quality has little to do with the distinctions you tend focus on in your writings about Thai vs. PI – relative amounts of racism, xenophobia, and discrimination.

[davewe]

- As for PI, I have spent a bit of time there by now and have been corresponding with a few Filipinas including some middle class ones from Manila. From what most tell me, they do differentiate westerners. For example, I asked one of them how she would respond if a presentable western stranger approached her in public to get her number. She told me she would assume he’s just after sex and do her best to make a quick exit. But not so if he’s Filipino. When I got into a conversation with middle class Filipina sitting next to me on plane from LA to Manila, I asked her whether any of her immediate family members were married to or dating westerners. She told me no, they all went for ‘love’ instead of ‘money’. And she herself was divorced from a Filipino. Yet she still was not interested in finding a western guy. She told me she did not wanna be like one of those ‘gold digger’ girls or prostitute herself. She believed in love or nothing which she implied could only happen with a guy who looked and acted Filipino. Many of the other interactions I’ve had with middle class Filipinas or Filipinos suggest a similar theme. The white whore mongers and sugar daddies have damaged our image in PI. We are perceived in a bad way by those who are self-sufficient or as a mark by those who need our help.

A lot of the disagreement between Ladislav and Rock misses a larger point. Whether you may be better accepted by Thais or Filipinas and who you ran into at a bar or on a plane and what they said about Westerners/Americans misses the mark. Practically the entire world has a love/hate relationship with Americans. Nearly anywhere you go in the world you will encounter people who dislike Americans. The image of the Ugly American is alive and well. OTOH in those very same places you will meet many people who will love you and be fascinated by the very fact that you are an American. And they would love to go to America and if they get there will become the most Americanized of people. Weird, isn't it. I have had many many conversations with people throughout the world who on one hand were interested or attracted to me because I was a white American, while at the very same time saying that many Americans were rude and obnoxious.

So which is it? Filipinos/Thais love or hate Americans? It's both.

As to PI, are there many nice, attractive, and even middle class girls who will like you as a white American? Yes. Are there many who will be suspicious of you because they will worry that you are a whore monger only intersted in sex? Yes!

So what is the difference? You are! Do you come across as a disrespecful whore monger or as a genuinely respecful serious person? If the latter you will have your choice in the Philippines, as well as elsewhere.

I have a new gf in PI. Gradually over the months some of her friends and her brother have added me as FB friends. They chat with me and I let them. I know they may be checking me out, making sure I am OK for their friend, who they love very much.

So I am chatting at length with her brother the other night. We've gotten to know each other and he seems very happy about the possibility of his sister and I having a relationship. I let him quiz me, cause I know he wants to make sure. But then I ask him his view of Americans who visit PI. His view is not positive. They are disrespecful and interested only in sex. Finally he grows silent and says he does not want to offend me. I tell him he will not and he says he knows I am not disrespecful.

So you see, the answer is all of the above. The choice is yours.

[zboy1]

A lot of the disagreement between Ladislav and Rock misses a larger point. Whether you may be better accepted by Thais or Filipinas and who you ran into at a bar or on a plane and what they said about Westerners/Americans misses the mark. Practically the entire world has a love/hate relationship with Americans. Nearly anywhere you go in the world you will encounter people who dislike Americans. The image of the Ugly American is alive and well. OTOH in those very same places you will meet many people who will love you and be fascinated by the very fact that you are an American. And they would love to go to America and if they get there will become the most Americanized of people. Weird, isn't it. I have had many many conversations with people throughout the world who on one hand were interested or attracted to me because I was a white American, while at the very same time saying that many Americans were rude and obnoxious.

So which is it? Filipinos/Thais love or hate Americans? It's both.

As to PI, are there many nice, attractive, and even middle class girls who will like you as a white Americans? Yes. Are there many who will be suspicious of you because they will worry that you are a whore monger only intersted in sex? Yes!

So what is the difference? You are! Do you come across as a disrespecful whore monger or as a genuinely respecful serious person? If the latter you will have your choice in the Philippines, as well as elsewhere.

I have a new gf in PI. Gradually over the months some of her friends and her brother have added me as FB friends. They chat with me and I let them. I know they may be checking me out, making sure I am OK for their friend, who they love very much.

So I am chatting at length with her brother the other night. We've gotten to know each other and he seems very happy about the possibility of his sister and I having a relationship. I let him quiz me, cause I know he wants to make sure. But then I ask him his view of Americans who visit PI. His view is not positive. They are disrespecful and interested only in sex. Finally he grows silent and says he does not want to offend me. I tell him he will not and he says he knows I am not disrespecful.

So you see, the answer is all of the above. The choice is yours.

+1

[Rock]

Davewe,

You've been in the States way too long. USA is just one component of the west, not the main one. In Thailand, the majority of westerners I meet or see are non-USA/Canada. When people guess my nationality there, its usually Russian, German or British, once in awhile Aussie. They almost never guess American. Understand, USA is just another country these days. Its no longer what it was when you were growing-up. Even in PI I meet a lot of non-US westerners in spite of our special history there. I think the only E. Asian and SE Asian countries where Americans are the clear majority of westerners is PI, Taiwan, and S. Korea. In others, its either British dominated or a hodgepodge. Over here, you are a westerner, a white guy, someone from Europe, North America, or Australia. A generation ago, kids in Taiwan would see white peole and automatically call them the Chinese equivalent of "American". Now they call them "foreigner" or "foreign friend". Americans are not as special as they imagine themselve to be. Your US passport might mean something to some poor Filipinas who are desperate to get out. But generally, most people don't give a shit whether you're American or Aussie, or South African, or whatever.

As for PI, the pattern I continue to notice is that the less attractive girls from poor families are often attracted to western culture and guys from those countries, even much older guys in some cases. After all, they are have dismal job prospects in their own land and local guys are less interested in them.

As for middle class and above Filipinas, especially those who are relatively tall, attractive and found mainly in Metro Manila area, they tend to be very westernized themselves. But they are generally much less interested in dating wetern guys or even hanging-out in mixed race circles. Even Winston noticed that middle class Filipino groups he would see in public areas almost never had a westerner or two mixed in, very different from Taiwan in spit of its smaler percentage of wetern tourists and residents. In the event where one of these types does date a western guy, he will typically be age approapriate and very presentable. Of course, all bets are off for the top tier P4P girls who may be seen at times with wealthier white or Asian expats.

[davewe]

Davewe,

You've been in the States way too long. USA is just one component of the west, not the main one.

Whether you're from New York, London, or Moscow wasn't my real point. As you say white Westerners are gonna get lumped together and people from other cultures will have a love hate relationship with them. They're fascinated by us, at times envious, and also contemptuous. Sometimes we represent a different or better life, sometimes we represent what is wrong with the world, sometimes we merely represent sex tourism to them.

Bottom line is, it's the attitude of the Westerner that is key. Go to many of these places as a mature adult and you will do well and find many attractive women; act like a low life or whore monger and that's how you'll be viewed.

Trip reports on this very forum fall into two categories: the guys who love traveling and living abroad and do well there; and the guys who whine and complain. Anyone reading the forum regularly can figure out who falls into which category. It's strikingly consistent.

The difference is the man. Whether a man believes that he has a great experience and finds lovely women, or has a shitty experience and finds every girl to be butt ugly - he will be right.

[FreeYourMind]

- As for PI, I have spent a bit of time there by now and have been corresponding with a few Filipinas including some middle class ones from Manila. From what most tell me, they do differentiate westerners. For example, I asked one of them how she would respond if a presentable western stranger approached her in public to get her number. She told me she would assume he’s just after sex and do her best to make a quick exit. But not so if he’s Filipino. When I got into a conversation with middle class Filipina sitting next to me on plane from LA to Manila, I asked her whether any of her immediate family members were married to or dating westerners. She told me no, they all went for ‘love’ instead of ‘money’. And she herself was divorced from a Filipino. Yet she still was not interested in finding a western guy. She told me she did not wanna be like one of those ‘gold digger’ girls or prostitute herself. She believed in love or nothing which she implied could only happen with a guy who looked and acted Filipino. Many of the other interactions I’ve had with middle class Filipinas or Filipinos suggest a similar theme. The white whore mongers and sugar daddies have damaged our image in PI. We are perceived in a bad way by those who are self-sufficient or as a mark by those who need our help.

A lot of the disagreement between Ladislav and Rock misses a larger point. Whether you may be better accepted by Thais or Filipinas and who you ran into at a bar or on a plane and what they said about Westerners/Americans misses the mark. Practically the entire world has a love/hate relationship with Americans. Nearly anywhere you go in the world you will encounter people who dislike Americans. The image of the Ugly American is alive and well. OTOH in those very same places you will meet many people who will love you and be fascinated by the very fact that you are an American. And they would love to go to America and if they get there will become the most Americanized of people. Weird, isn't it. I have had many many conversations with people throughout the world who on one hand were interested or attracted to me because I was a white American, while at the very same time saying that many Americans were rude and obnoxious.

So which is it? Filipinos/Thais love or hate Americans? It's both.

As to PI, are there many nice, attractive, and even middle class girls who will like you as a white American? Yes. Are there many who will be suspicious of you because they will worry that you are a whore monger only intersted in sex? Yes!

So what is the difference? You are! Do you come across as a disrespecful whore monger or as a genuinely respecful serious person? If the latter you will have your choice in the Philippines, as well as elsewhere.

I have a new gf in PI. Gradually over the months some of her friends and her brother have added me as FB friends. They chat with me and I let them. I know they may be checking me out, making sure I am OK for their friend, who they love very much.

So I am chatting at length with her brother the other night. We've gotten to know each other and he seems very happy about the possibility of his sister and I having a relationship. I let him quiz me, cause I know he wants to make sure. But then I ask him his view of Americans who visit PI. His view is not positive. They are disrespecful and interested only in sex. Finally he grows silent and says he does not want to offend me. I tell him he will not and he says he knows I am not disrespecful.

So you see, the answer is all of the above. The choice is yours.

Excellent post. I hope that sites like this one will improve the quality of Western expats and I think that is happening. Now instead of just mongers, a lot more quality men, who used to be respected and rewarded in the Anglosphere for their character, are looking elsewhere and that's a healthy reaction to the poison of feminism and the toxic women who now inhabit the Anglosphere.

[MrPeabody]

Davewe,

You've been in the States way too long. USA is just one component of the west, not the main one.

Whether you're from New York, London, or Moscow wasn't my real point. As you say white Westerners are gonna get lumped together and people from other cultures will have a love hate relationship with them. They're fascinated by us, at times envious, and also contemptuous. Sometimes we represent a different or better life, sometimes we represent what is wrong with the world, sometimes we merely represent sex tourism to them.

Bottom line is, it's the attitude of the Westerner that is key. Go to many of these places as a mature adult and you will do well and find many attractive women; act like a low life or whore monger and that's how you'll be viewed.

Trip reports on this very forum fall into two categories: the guys who love traveling and living abroad and do well there; and the guys who whine and complain. Anyone reading the forum regularly can figure out who falls into which category. It's strikingly consistent.

The difference is the man. Whether a man believes that he has a great experience and finds lovely women, or has a shitty experience and finds every girl to be butt ugly - he will be right.

I agree. When a foreigner is giving you a report of his experience in a country, he is telling you more about himself than the country. It is a subjective experience and hard to unravel the observer from the observed. One's intentions and behavior will color your experience. That is why you will never have any idea of what a country is like until you go there yourself.

An American with good intentions will easily fit in like Dave of Dave's Cafe:

[ladislav]

I agree. When a foreigner is giving you a report of his experience in a country, he is telling you more about himself than the country. It is a subjective experience and hard to unravel the observer from the observed. One's intentions and behavior will color your experience. That is why you will never have any idea of what a country is like until you go there yourself.

An American with good intentions will easily fit in like Dave of Dave's Cafe:

It is absolutely correct that you are a variable in the equation, however, it would also be unfair to pin the blame on the person alone thus denying prejudice on the part of the population. Oh, if he dresses well and he is a polite person than he would be treated well and fit in easily.

Because if you reversed the roles and said that say, an Asian person would be well treated in some redneck town if he had only dressed well and behaved and if he gets his a## kicked for looking foreign, well you would probably not pin the blame on him. Oh, the rednecks are mad and want to beat that person up because, oh well, he is acting rude.

His only fault is that he is of a different race in the wrong place.

However, if it is a white American or any other white person, automatically it is him that is guilty. Hmm, sounds a bit naive.

I am sure that your actions can reduce prejudice somewhat but if there is a significant racial bias in the air, they will not eliminate it. Sometimes, it is better not to even go there to begin with.

[davewe]

I agree. When a foreigner is giving you a report of his experience in a country, he is telling you more about himself than the country. It is a subjective experience and hard to unravel the observer from the observed. One's intentions and behavior will color your experience. That is why you will never have any idea of what a country is like until you go there yourself.

An American with good intentions will easily fit in like Dave of Dave's Cafe:

It is absolutely correct that you are a variable in the equation, however, it would also be unfair to pin the blame on the person alone thus denying prejudice on the part of the population. Oh, if he dresses well and he is a polite person than he would be treated well and fit in easily.

Because if you reversed the roles and said that say, an Asian person would be well treated in some redneck town if he had only dressed well and behaved and if he gets his a## kicked for looking foreign, well you would probably not pin the blame on him. Oh, the rednecks are mad and want to beat that person up because, oh well, he is acting rude.

His only fault is that he is of a different race in the wrong place.

However, if it is a white American or any other white person, automatically it is him that is guilty. Hmm, sounds a bit naive.

I am sure that your actions can reduce prejudice somewhat but if there is a significant racial bias in the air, they will not eliminate it. Sometimes, it is better not to even go there to begin with.

Agreed. I would only say that the individual has himself as the only variable he can change. So when two or more people visit the same country and come away with wildly varying views, I look at the individual as the deciding variable. Of course it could also be the luck of the draw; one guy has a great experience, one a crappy experience, but sometimes you can see patterns emerging.

But you are absolutely correct that there are places that are very difficult to visit for some races/religions/nationalities. And we all want to know what those places might be.

But the majority of the debates on this forum are about countries that are a bit better known. As in this thread; Thailand is racist, the PI isn't; the PI sucks, Thailand is great. And perhaps it's human nature, but instead of suggesting that something was my personal experience and YMMV, we feel compelled to generalize. Which comes back to the idea that the reports and debates are far more about the person who is traveling than any objective and measurable data.

And hell, let's face it. Most Western guys think that Western women are still the best. Sheeesh!

[Repatriate]

Again, how often did/does the harassment happen to AA men? That is my question. Does it happen once a day? Three times a day? Do people yell out and stick fingers at you daily pointing you out to their friends like you were some animal and staring at you like you were a freak daily, several times a day? Well, because this is how many Asian people behave on their continent.

It's literally a daily occurrence away from cities or neighborhoods with large asian populations. It also happens a lot more with AA men than AA women. There's definitely a strong racial-caste in the U.S. which you've written about but it's much more serious than you think when it comes to casual disrespect. I'm not going to even get into the media which has very strong anti-asian biases most of the time. There are positive depictions of asians in U.S. media but it's also heavily stereotyped in some way. It's really not better than the totally ridiculous stereotypes you see of white people in movies made in Asia. The thing is that stereotypes in Asia of white people are mostly as goofy or harmless. In the U.S. there's an element of caste setting and racial eugenics at play. It's still very different.

They looked like that had made it in life. They walk with a spring in their step, smile widely and act so American, they are more American than anyone else I have seen. Obviously a person who is insulted and called names daily would be very much affected by this and not look as good or act as confidently. Filipinos are Asians in the US race taxonomy but they seem to look VERY happy. So, what is the deal with them.

Most Filipinos live on the west coast and a high percent in asian populated areas like Torrance, CA. It's not a good sample size to work off of. Plus what people experience and how they show it is completely different. A lot of AA are pretty complacent or passive about their treatment or they would literally turn bitter and angry. This is something that's often talked about already and there's an overwhelming amount of articles that discuss the way AA are treated in the U.S. It's not good at all. Economically there are positive things about being in the U.S. but socially it's often really bad for AA men in particular.

[Repatriate]

- Just 3 weeks ago, I met ManInSiam - a decent looking and slim 6’1� Korean American, right in Bangkok. He had already been there for a month and spent a couple hours relating to me his experiences with local people and girls. From what he told me, he gets no special treatment relative to a similar looking white guy. It’s hardly been a paradise for him that you claim it should be as he’s struggled with finding work or getting very far with any of the few local girls he’s met.

He probably doesn't have a good social circle either. Most Thais he meets normally won't be able to speak much english and will be confused about why he doesn't speak Thai. My advice to a guy like this would be to meet some Thai-americans asap and join in on their social circle. He'll meet plenty of educated middle class women that understand where he's coming from then. Other than that speaking Thai is pretty much mandatory to meet quality Thai girls. It becomes a lot easier once you have that down. I've said this before but the Thai women that white expats go for and who go for white expats is an entirely different crowd. They won't be intrigued at all by an asian-american and they are going 100% for the white european look. They hang out with mostly white foreigners at nightclubs etc.. too.

For a Korean-American though he should be emphasizing his Korean-ness more. The K-wave is really popular in Thailand.

- I don’t think it’s nearly as shameful as you claim for a decent looking lighter skinned middle class Thai girl to be seen in Bangkok with the right kind of white expat. If the guy is age appropriate, good looking, and dressed for success, many such Thai girls will feel totally comfortable I believe. I’m not 100% sure of this as I can’t read their minds. But even I have had some personal experience dating such girls and they never expressed any hesitation about meeting me in public or even where we might be seen by the girl’s social circle (work place or uni campus).

It's not such a big deal but I have noticed there's often a strange divergence in attractiveness of the foreign/Thai pairing. For instance the white guy can be tall and handsome (even by western standards) but the Thai girl ranges from ugly to very average. ie. short, brown, and round with pug face. I very rarely see the tall light skinned middle class Thai girls with any foreign guys actually. Usually those girls seem to like short, skinny, and dumpy looking Thai guys. I talked about this before at length with my observations in a place (IKEA) with a very large sample size of middle class Thai people. I see it all the time actually. I think Thai girls have set the bar very low for Thai guys. That's why my Thai-American friends get treated like a gift from heaven by so many Thai girls. A well dressed, decent looking, middle class, educated Thai guy with a good personality is extremely rare in Bangkok.

[chanta76]

Repatriate,


Since you in Thailand. Do most Thia girls prefer white guys? I mean from reading the forum it's bit different from the Philippines. I know Thailand is way different from SOuth Korea. But I have to agree with your last statement.

For Asian American guys it's like a double edge sword for us in Asia. We look Asian so the locals sometimes expects us to speak the language and know the culture and if we don't we get treated poorly . Where as a white guy can away with more in not knowing the language or culture. Because hey his white.

But for Asian American guys in Asia we sometimes have access that the local guys have because we can blend in more. However, I have to agree for educated middle class Asian women in Asia..if she has a thing for western guys she wants white guy not a Asian American guy.

So..if an Asian American guy wants access to the local middle class girls he has to know the language and culture. SO it's not like Asian american guy has this paradise in Asia .

I mean I'm Korean american . If I decided to go to China to hook up with girls...it's to my advantage to know the language..it's common sense really. But I think with white guys...they can get away with it. Because they are white...local Asian girls ..will see a white guy and whatever fantasy she has might go for that.

Because I look Asian ..I'm like any other random local Asian guy there is. So...unless I make it up with game..looks, etc....Don't get me wrong ..I think dating for Asian American guys in Asia is probably 10 times better than in the states..but that's because it's USA I'm comparing to.

[Repatriate]

Repatriate,


Since you in Thailand. Do most Thia girls prefer white guys? I mean from reading the forum it's bit different from the Philippines. I know Thailand is way different from SOuth Korea. But I have to agree with your last statement.

From my experiences it's just different. Thai girls group white/foreign men as "farang" and it's just considered an other classification. I find that Thai girls pay more attention to your dress style and the basic attractiveness of your facial features more than anything. They like really young guys (19-23) with boyish looking faces.

So the only preference they have with foreign men (asian and white) is whether you are attractive or not. It's really odd because they are particular about this but a lot of pretty good looking Thai girls date really ugly Thai guys and most handsome/tall white guys i've seen are with some pretty dreadful looking Thai girls.

This doesn't apply for p4p or sugar daddy situations of course where anything/everything goes.

So..if an Asian American guy wants access to the local middle class girls he has to know the language and culture. SO it's not like Asian american guy has this paradise in Asia .

I mean I'm Korean american . If I decided to go to China to hook up with girls...it's to my advantage to know the language..it's common sense really. But I think with white guys...they can get away with it. Because they are white...local Asian girls ..will see a white guy and whatever fantasy she has might go for that.

Because I look Asian ..I'm like any other random local Asian guy there is. So...unless I make it up with game..looks, etc....Don't get me wrong ..I think dating for Asian American guys in Asia is probably 10 times better than in the states..but that's because it's USA I'm comparing to.

It's not quite so difficult or depressing as you make it out to be. I recommend you spend significant time around asia because there's certain groups you have to socialize with. Like I said the girls who typically go for white expats and the like hang out at typical white expat places or go out of there way to look for white expats.

Middle-class asian girls in these countries don't prefer white or other foreign men. They overwhelmingly prefer their own nationality when it comes down to it. So yes, learning the language is very important and so is making the right friends to get introduced to these girls.

In the future i'll probably be sticking more to the mandarin speaking part of the world (China, HK, Singapore, Taiwan) though. I'm much more comfortable with that these days. I find that I like Chinese looking girls way more anyways and the ones i've chatted up elsewhere have always been easy for me to get on the same wavelength with.

[ladislav]

Whether you're from New York, London, or Moscow wasn't my real point. As you say white Westerners are gonna get lumped together and people from other cultures will have a love hate relationship with them.

It is ironic that for Oriental peoples, a Slavic Cyrillic Russian person is an English speaking "Westerner".

[Rock]

Whether you're from New York, London, or Moscow wasn't my real point. As you say white Westerners are gonna get lumped together and people from other cultures will have a love hate relationship with them.

It is ironic that for Oriental peoples, a Slavic Cyrillic Russian person is an English speaking "Westerner".

I don't believe that is true in pockets of E. and SE Asia where you have significant numbers of Slavic foreigners. In Pattaya, they seem to definitely distinguish the Russians from other westerners cus Russians are so dominant in many areas. They also to some extent distinguish between the various groups of westerners. They know that Russians are different from say Brits or Germans. They also understand that if they wanna do business with this large group, they need to provide materials in Russian language and in some cases, even learn to speak some Russian. Yes, on rare occasions, I've even had Thais address me in Russian there.

Yes, English is the de-facto language most Thais use to speak to westerners. But so what. They also use it with non-Thai Asians and other non-white foreigners just as is done in many other parts of the world. When I left Bangkok a couple weeks ago, I got stuck in a big crowd of confused Chinese tourists who had no idea how to queue-up correctly and were causing a huge bottleneck. One of the airport officials came over and started rudely yelling at them to move back, get out of the way, and form a line. Guess what language he used to address them in even though most didn't understand it?

Another corner where locals seem to be aware of the difference is Harbin. There weren't a lot of white people up there when I last visited. But there were clearly 2 distinct groups that stood out - the Russians and the English speakers, mostly from Canada and US plus a sprinkling from various other western countries. The locals I met and spoke to seemed to have a clear idea that Russians were a different from us. They actually had a pretty bad reputation for getting drunk a lot and starting trouble whereas the rest of us were considered pretty tame.

Now in areas where Slavic people are rare relative to W. European/NA/Aussie foreigners, its not surprising that they would be lumped together in the minds of average locals. How is that ironic? The average Joe about anywhere in the world does not know a lot about foreigners from far lands. How well do you think the average S. American would be at differentiating between the various groups of Asians?