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Not only lying and scamming in the Philippines

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.

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Not only lying and scamming in the Philippines

Postby publicduende » Sun Sep 07, 2014 12:57 am

Ghost wrote:Ah, but see...I was prepared for scams and rip-offs. Or at least I knew about those things. I occasionally went with an over-priced taxi if I needed to be somewhere fast. I didn't get ripped off all the time because I was looking out. It's just that flips TRY to rip foreigners off all the time. And, no, I don't think I could ever adapt to having to resist it every day for the rest of my life. Having to live in a fully untrustworthy society...I could in no way ever call that "winning." It is inherent loss. And now that I have seen the reality of a fully third-world, corrupt, no-trust society, it fills me with even more despair about the fall of the West.

It isn't feminism taking over the world that we have to worry about...it's the transformation of the planet into a third-world ghetto from which it never emerges.

The Philippines will never "develop" because it can't. Civilizations developing and prospering requires trust and morals. The Philippines has none.

I guarded against flips ripping me off and I was careful. I knew I had to. And then what happens? I get betrayed by my ex-gf and her brother.

It ultimately isn't about the money. I was robbed, it happens. I except it of third-world strangers. But when you can't trust your girlfriend's direct family? That is a level of evil so hopeless that it deserves immediate destruction.

Dante Alighieri's Inferno made sure all sinners were punished. And who got the worst punishments in the Ninth Circle of Hell? Betrayers.+-

Our forebears knew this truth. They were trying to warn future generations of the wages of evil. Betrayal is indeed the worst of evil.

We're lost. There is no "winning" in such a world.


Ghost, silver kudos to you. I found your comparison with Dante's Inferno quite erudite.

It was quite apparent to me, from your story, that you stumbled upon a woman (and a family) of such low intellectual reach that her brother had the fatefully short-sighted idea of reaping the relatively modest reward on the spot than letting her benefit from your feelings of affection, compassion and commitment for the longer term. It is, and you couldn't say it better, the characteristic of an animal, to act by instinct and stay unaware of the consequences of their acts.

To be back to your metaphor, treachery from a person of trust (Brutus for Julius Caesar, Judas for Jesus) is indeed the most odious of sins. And yet, it was Jesus himself who said "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing". Whilst I have perhaps been luckier than you to have never been scammed or robbed by a Filipino, I know that people capable of killing the golden goose and be left with a couple of plain eggs abound in the Philippines.

It is a fact of life that poverty, ignorance and cynicism are a toxic mix that generate the most evil, reproachable of human behaviours. It is also a fact of life that, when steeped in dignity, humility and good moral values, the same poverty can create remarkable personalities, some of whom already are wonderful young women who would certainly make wonderful life partners and mothers.

When I was in Davao I spent some time talking to an Italian expat, a few years older than me, who had been living there for almost a year, and had just gotten engaged with an amazing 20-yo model like girl. To my perhaps nosy questions on how he could find a girl of such inner and outer beauty (she was really cute beyond belief, degree educated and absolutely devoted to her soon-to-be hubby), he said he had been purposely trying to date girls from families of medium-to-high cultural levels who did not sport a big bank account. He said a good sample, at least in the Philippines and Davao, was families where dad and mom are teachers, professional (non OFW) nurses and social workers, policemen etc. He had somehow understood that parents who embrace emotionally draining careers for little financial reward, must be motivated by vocation, a genuine desire to help and set an morally sound example for those around them...including their young daughters.

He said he had found her "perfect half" after only dating 3 or 4 girls, which considering he had landed in Davao with zilch connections and with no "pipeline" of sort, I would consider a fantastic result. At that point, the next big question was: how did he get to meet these quality girls? And here's the revelation: by befriending the family before or instead of meeting the girl, not after. As an approach, he wasn't that far from what they used to do in Italy until before the cultural revolution of the 60s, and actually re-enacting what still happens in traditional Filipino families to a tee. If you think about it, what is it better: to meet a young woman whose moods are volatile by definition, her personality (probably) a work in progress, and try to infer as much as possible from the rare and occasional peeks into her relational/family background, or get to know a few good adult men, winning their trust and respect the way only a man-to-man rapport can build, then perhaps meet their wives and close family and have deep, prolonged chances to learn the socio-cultural and moral humus their kids are growing into.

At some point, whether in front of a glass of whiskey or a cheap San Mig and grilled fish, said family men and women will naturally take the lead start asking about your dating life (or lack thereof), perhaps tongue in cheek, or perhaps more seriously.

That's the moment when they will be showing you that:
1) they feel intimate enough to ask you questions that you might well find uncomfortable
2) they are willing and able to help in that department and, most importantly,
3) they like and respect you enough to entrust you with the kind of prospect they will not risk losing face about; the kind of woman they would want their own son to marry.

Fact is, like all fathers in the world, a Filipino dad could be as protective as it gets towards her young blossoming angel. That, until you know what a typical Filipino family is: it ain't just mom, dad and a couple of kids like in the US. It's a large clan-like ensemble spanning several generations and degrees or kinship. As such, there will always be a niece, a cousin, a trusted family friend's daughter, sometimes even a granddaughter that is good looking, single and eligible.

The most important thing is to establish that elusive link with the good, the honest, the hard working, the humble, the compassionate Filipino family MAN. Which, especially in highly gregarious cultures like the Philippines (but also much of Latin America), is far, far easier than meeting and being seen alone with a young unmarried girl and taking a punt on the quality of her intentions. Once that man friendship happens, navigating the social graph will be probably yielding comparably good quality people, more adult men to chat, drink and laugh with, more mature women and mothers who will read your heart and know that you're a good man for someone good.

Unfortunately I cannot write about my friend in more detail nor post pictures of him and his beautiful bride. PM me if you're interested. And yes, unlike much of Roosh's bombastic fiction, it's a story as true as the hearts that made it happen.
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Postby gsjackson » Sun Sep 07, 2014 2:28 am

You know, looking back over my experiences, PD may really be on to something here. The cutest face, and the hottest body (two separate women), not just that I have ever dated, but almost that I have ever seen, were essentially bestowed upon me by male members of their families.

Long stories short -- and I've told both here before -- the hot bod was a Moroccan, who called me (even though I hadn't previously spoken to her) after I went through an extensive "interview" over many beers with her cousin and several other Moroccan guys who knew her.

The face was 16, I was 44. I mentioned to her stepfather, a member of a subculture (sport) in which I was highly respected for my capabilities, that I thought she was stunningly cute, not expecting anything to come of it. Soon I was going on "double dates" with him, his wife and her daughter, and he told me I could start dating her regularly when she turned 18.

Maybe time to start putting the network of male friends back together.
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Re: Not only lying and scamming in the Philippines

Postby OutWest » Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:46 am

publicduende wrote:
Ghost wrote:Ah, but see...I was prepared for scams and rip-offs. Or at least I knew about those things. I occasionally went with an over-priced taxi if I needed to be somewhere fast. I didn't get ripped off all the time because I was looking out. It's just that flips TRY to rip foreigners off all the time. And, no, I don't think I could ever adapt to having to resist it every day for the rest of my life. Having to live in a fully untrustworthy society...I could in no way ever call that "winning." It is inherent loss. And now that I have seen the reality of a fully third-world, corrupt, no-trust society, it fills me with even more despair about the fall of the West.

It isn't feminism taking over the world that we have to worry about...it's the transformation of the planet into a third-world ghetto from which it never emerges.

The Philippines will never "develop" because it can't. Civilizations developing and prospering requires trust and morals. The Philippines has none.

I guarded against flips ripping me off and I was careful. I knew I had to. And then what happens? I get betrayed by my ex-gf and her brother.

It ultimately isn't about the money. I was robbed, it happens. I except it of third-world strangers. But when you can't trust your girlfriend's direct family? That is a level of evil so hopeless that it deserves immediate destruction.

Dante Alighieri's Inferno made sure all sinners were punished. And who got the worst punishments in the Ninth Circle of Hell? Betrayers.+-

Our forebears knew this truth. They were trying to warn future generations of the wages of evil. Betrayal is indeed the worst of evil.

We're lost. There is no "winning" in such a world.


Ghost, silver kudos to you. I found your comparison with Dante's Inferno quite erudite.

It was quite apparent to me, from your story, that you stumbled upon a woman (and a family) of such low intellectual reach that her brother had the fatefully short-sighted idea of reaping the relatively modest reward on the spot than letting her benefit from your feelings of affection, compassion and commitment for the longer term. It is, and you couldn't say it better, the characteristic of an animal, to act by instinct and stay unaware of the consequences of their acts.

To be back to your metaphor, treachery from a person of trust (Brutus for Julius Caesar, Judas for Jesus) is indeed the most odious of sins. And yet, it was Jesus himself who said "Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing". Whilst I have perhaps been luckier than you to have never been scammed or robbed by a Filipino, I know that people capable of killing the golden goose and be left with a couple of plain eggs abound in the Philippines.

It is a fact of life that poverty, ignorance and cynicism are a toxic mix that generate the most evil, reproachable of human behaviours. It is also a fact of life that, when steeped in dignity, humility and good moral values, the same poverty can create remarkable personalities, some of whom already are wonderful young women who would certainly make wonderful life partners and mothers.

When I was in Davao I spent some time talking to an Italian expat, a few years older than me, who had been living there for almost a year, and had just gotten engaged with an amazing 20-yo model like girl. To my perhaps nosy questions on how he could find a girl of such inner and outer beauty (she was really cute beyond belief, degree educated and absolutely devoted to her soon-to-be hubby), he said he had been purposely trying to date girls from families of medium-to-high cultural levels who did not sport a big bank account. He said a good sample, at least in the Philippines and Davao, was families where dad and mom are teachers, professional (non OFW) nurses and social workers, policemen etc. He had somehow understood that parents who embrace emotionally draining careers for little financial reward, must be motivated by vocation, a genuine desire to help and set an morally sound example for those around them...including their young daughters.

He said he had found her "perfect half" after only dating 3 or 4 girls, which considering he had landed in Davao with zilch connections and with no "pipeline" of sort, I would consider a fantastic result. At that point, the next big question was: how did he get to meet these quality girls? And here's the revelation: by befriending the family before or instead of meeting the girl, not after. As an approach, he wasn't that far from what they used to do in Italy until before the cultural revolution of the 60s, and actually re-enacting what still happens in traditional Filipino families to a tee. If you think about it, what is it better: to meet a young woman whose moods are volatile by definition, her personality (probably) a work in progress, and try to infer as much as possible from the rare and occasional peeks into her relational/family background, or get to know a few good adult men, winning their trust and respect the way only a man-to-man rapport can build, then perhaps meet their wives and close family and have deep, prolonged chances to learn the socio-cultural and moral humus their kids are growing into.

At some point, whether in front of a glass of whiskey or a cheap San Mig and grilled fish, said family men and women will naturally take the lead start asking about your dating life (or lack thereof), perhaps tongue in cheek, or perhaps more seriously.

That's the moment when they will be showing you that:
1) they feel intimate enough to ask you questions that you might well find uncomfortable
2) they are willing and able to help in that department and, most importantly,
3) they like and respect you enough to entrust you with the kind of prospect they will not risk losing face about; the kind of woman they would want their own son to marry.

Fact is, like all fathers in the world, a Filipino dad could be as protective as it gets towards her young blossoming angel. That, until you know what a typical Filipino family is: it ain't just mom, dad and a couple of kids like in the US. It's a large clan-like ensemble spanning several generations and degrees or kinship. As such, there will always be a niece, a cousin, a trusted family friend's daughter, sometimes even a granddaughter that is good looking, single and eligible.

The most important thing is to establish that elusive link with the good, the honest, the hard working, the humble, the compassionate Filipino family MAN. Which, especially in highly gregarious cultures like the Philippines (but also much of Latin America), is far, far easier than meeting and being seen alone with a young unmarried girl and taking a punt on the quality of her intentions. Once that man friendship happens, navigating the social graph will be probably yielding comparably good quality people, more adult men to chat, drink and laugh with, more mature women and mothers who will read your heart and know that you're a good man for someone good.

Unfortunately I cannot write about my friend in more detail nor post pictures of him and his beautiful bride. PM me if you're interested. And yes, unlike much of Roosh's bombastic fiction, it's a story as true as the hearts that made it happen.




The most important thing is to establish that elusive link with the good, the honest, the hard working, the humble, the compassionate Filipino family


BINGO! I have been saying this for years...and 90% of American men cannot even grasp it.
Even recently on this forum, my insistence that knowing families and clusters of families in the a Barangay was priceless. The idea was mocked as irrelevant.

Why do so many men INSIST on being dumba$$es and then complain complain complain at the results? And yes..insisting that your own UNTESTED and UNPROVEN point of view is workable is...unrealized arrogance.

My father-in-law would take a bullet for me. He is educated and a priceless gentleman. My wife would not have married me without her father's blessing. I work hard to keep it.
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Postby Ghost » Sun Sep 07, 2014 3:58 am

I see the point, and it is well made. Yet, one needs the means to do this. And luck. We have dating sites for Filipinas, not families. And I'm not going to go to the Phils (and most likely fail) to establish a network for finding a good girl. I'm sure it works great. But I am a man of limited means, so it isn't workable for me.

Perhaps most foreigners who go to the Phils don't do this for precisely this reason and because of the cheap and easy p4p. That's what I'll do. For the Phils, it's the only realistic option I have.
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Postby OutWest » Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:10 am

Ghost wrote:I see the point, and it is well made. Yet, one needs the means to do this. And luck. We have dating sites for Filipinas, not families. And I'm not going to go to the Phils (and most likely fail) to establish a network for finding a good girl. I'm sure it works great. But I am a man of limited means, so it isn't workable for me.

Perhaps most foreigners who go to the Phils don't do this for precisely this reason and because of the cheap and easy p4p. That's what I'll do. For the Phils, it's the only realistic option I have.


Ghost-

You are a good man working through a bitter experience. When you are in the Philippines, keep a sharp eye for those rare decent long term expats, and solid reputable families with no agenda...they DO exist.
Knowing some of these will not increase your costs, it will make it much cheaper over time to be in the Philippines and open some new doors for you.
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Postby davewe » Sun Sep 07, 2014 5:36 am

OutWest wrote:
Ghost wrote:I see the point, and it is well made. Yet, one needs the means to do this. And luck. We have dating sites for Filipinas, not families. And I'm not going to go to the Phils (and most likely fail) to establish a network for finding a good girl. I'm sure it works great. But I am a man of limited means, so it isn't workable for me.

Perhaps most foreigners who go to the Phils don't do this for precisely this reason and because of the cheap and easy p4p. That's what I'll do. For the Phils, it's the only realistic option I have.


Ghost-

You are a good man working through a bitter experience. When you are in the Philippines, keep a sharp eye for those rare decent long term expats, and solid reputable families with no agenda...they DO exist.
Knowing some of these will not increase your costs, it will make it much cheaper over time to be in the Philippines and open some new doors for you.


+1

I agree with this but also agree with the idea that with limited time and resources it may be difficult to connect with Filipino families. I am sure it can happen but here is another strategy.

Actually I think I have told this story before. When I originally did the online dating thing I was very very busy and met many women online. In a few cases I decided to make friend connections rather than romantic or sexual ones. One girl in particular was 24, a virgin and very naive about men. I liked her but mostly considered her like a little sister. She know nothing about men and got hurt by a couple guys online. I guided her when she asked what a guy meant when he said something. Over the course of a year plus we became good friends. At the time I had a Filipina gf that went bad (still plenty of fun, but in the end it blew up). My friend knew the girl was bad and gently tried to lead me to the same conclusion. As a Filipina, she could see what I could not.

Later, after I'd met my wife, I proposed that we travel to CDO to meet my friend. By then she and Janet had become FB friends. We arrived in CDO and my friend threw several parties for me. She and Janet bonded instantly. By the end of the trip there was no doubt in my friend's mind that Janet was real and loved me. Today with a little help from me, my friend is married and living in the US. We are all still friends.

I've mentioned several times that finding a mentor/guide is very helpful. As Outwest says, so is meeting some nice families. But you can also make friends in the Philippines. It will take time but it will pay off 10 fold.

BTW, one of the other Filipina "friends" I made I set up with one of my best friends in the US and they too are now married. So networking isn't just confined to business practices in the US.
Check out my blog @ www.marriedafilipina.com
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Postby Ghost » Sun Sep 07, 2014 7:58 am

But that would require longer trips there, spending money for accomodation and whatnot, and then pounding the pavement, putting myself at risk. It isn't about laziness though - it's about cost vs. benefit. Why shouldn't I just go to China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, or any other number of places where I can work, live reasonably, and have residence? I lived in China for a year. It is a very first-world life compared to the Philippines. And people there aren't trying to scam you all the damn time. In an entire year of living in China (and traveling in the province) no one ever tried to scam me. The closest I came was seeing a taxi driver ask for 2 quai more from my coworker once, and one other time a group of us foreigners booked rooms at a hotel. They wanted more money. And that was it. In the Philippines, as soon as I stepped outside, scammers were on me. Or street kids.

The Philippines requires too much for what it gives in return. Except for p4p, which is exactly what I'll use it for from now on. And even if I find a "good girl," after I've put in a lot of effort to find her, she could easily pull an, "oops, I'm not really a virgin."

In a lot of other Asian countries, I can just work at a university or something and be around tons of young, gorgeous women all the time and have a huge dating pool with little to no effort. So why should I regard the Philippines as a place to find anything serious? In terms of cost vs. benefit, it fails miserably.
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Postby newlifeinphilippines » Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:10 am

Ghost wrote:But that would require longer trips there, spending money for accomodation and whatnot, and then pounding the pavement, putting myself at risk. It isn't about laziness though - it's about cost vs. benefit. Why shouldn't I just go to China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Cambodia, Thailand, or any other number of places where I can work, live reasonably, and have residence? I lived in China for a year. It is a very first-world life compared to the Philippines. And people there aren't trying to scam you all the damn time. In an entire year of living in China (and traveling in the province) no one ever tried to scam me. The closest I came was seeing a taxi driver ask for 2 quai more from my coworker once, and one other time a group of us foreigners booked rooms at a hotel. They wanted more money. And that was it. In the Philippines, as soon as I stepped outside, scammers were on me. Or street kids.

The Philippines requires too much for what it gives in return. Except for p4p, which is exactly what I'll use it for from now on. And even if I find a "good girl," after I've put in a lot of effort to find her, she could easily pull an, "oops, I'm not really a virgin."

In a lot of other Asian countries, I can just work at a university or something and be around tons of young, gorgeous women all the time and have a huge dating pool with little to no effort. So why should I regard the Philippines as a place to find anything serious? In terms of cost vs. benefit, it fails miserably.



Honestly maybe im offbase for saying this but Ive noticed a trend with some of the poorer guysliving in asia. most guys on happierabroad are too poor or not ready to even go to asia for vacations let alone live there like you and a few others are. Your too poor to live in asia or have a girlfriend there. Your too poor really to survive there let alone deal with women who will put even more pressure on you. Bstyle had the same dilemma he was poor ESL teacher thats why he had a bunch of fugly leeching deadbeats he got tired of. If you have the money you can live comfortable and get a better looking choice of women. No money no honey as they say. Guys like hammanta have an average job in america and he goes there for vacation but then he goes right back to america to make that money. Hero stopped traveling so he could save and then retire young. Ive decided to stop temporarily so i could get to my retirement faster. The only guys ive seen winging it on a poor asian income are doing very badly with women from the posts here.


Not everyone wants to live in communist china or in thailand where no one speaks english and they are arrogant to outsiders and visas. Guys like davewe and a few others are retired im assuming or had ample vacation time to prance around with no worry about work or saving for retirement. Even will N dowd has a huge nest egg and never has to work again thats why he can prance around all these years and chase women. its not realistic for younger people or people who haven't built up a net cash cow yet. They have a job to go to or in my case I want to save my money and focus on my work and its a huge distraction being there.

Thats why philippines is more for people who are retired or close to retirement. Its better to save up money and retire young to live there if you have no intentions of bringing a wife to america. I dont see whats the point of doing small vacations there except for vacation girlfriends and p4p. And if your unsure if you want to live there then definitely dont go wife hunting.
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Postby Ghost » Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:29 am

newlifeinphilippines wrote:Honestly maybe im offbase for saying this but most guys on happierabroad are too poor or not ready to even go to asia for vacations let alone live there like you are. Your too poor to live in asia or have a girlfriend there. Bstyle had the same dilemma he was poor ESL teacher thats why he had a bunch of fugly leeching deadbeats he got tired of. If you have the money you can live comfortable and get a better looking choice of women. No money no honey as they say.


No, your assessment is pretty accurate. Money is an issue for me. Saving money for vacation isn't. Trying to actually live on savings? I'd last a year at most.

But, yes, I am an EFL teacher. And that's fine. I'll never have free money and good looks like Will N(ot) Dowd. Which is fine. I can still do well. And that's a testament to just big and opportunity filled much of Asia is. And I do want to work, besides. I don't want to be a bum like Dowd. He's got everything he could ever want financially, but he is perhaps the most miserable poster here. Having good-looking women is not a problem for me either. I don't think that is generally an issue in Asia since so many women there are gorgeous. I can go get a beautiful Chinese girl who will look good until she is 50. Sure, she'll be hypergamous as all women are, wanting a man who makes 6000RMB a month. So since that is still out of the question for most Chinese men, she goes for the English teacher who makes 8000RMB a month and at least has interest in learning some Chinese and doesn't go out partying and drinking. Damn, the math really adds up for me over there.



Not everyone wants to live in communist china or in thailand where no one speaks english and they are arrogant to outsiders and visas. Guys like davewe and a few others are retired im assuming or had ample vacation time to prance around with no worry about work or saving for retirement. Even will N dowd has a huge nest egg and never has to work again thats why he can prance around all these years and chase women. its not realistic for younger people or people who haven't built up a net cash cow yet. They have a job to go to or in my case I want to save my money and focus on my work and its a huge distraction being there.

Thats why philippines is more for people who are retired or close to retirement. Its also why ive stopped taking long trips there and decided i will focus on my work till im closer to retirement. I just wound up doing my work everyday and luckily i always had liveins but even with liveins i was getting behind on the focus of my work. Its better to save up money and retire young to live there if you have no intentions of bringing a wife to america. I dont see whats the point of doing small vacations there except for vacation girlfriends and p4p. And if your unsure if you want to live there then definitely dont go wife hunting.


Have to agree, there. Except that China can be quite nice for a foreigner. But then again, I'd be working there and have residence with that, so that changes everything. (Plus not getting ripped off in China.) It's communist more in name than practice. A permanent vacation would be boring, anyway. I want to be financially all right, but not especially rich. Somewhere in the middle as fine. Just as long as I can save up and go for a pump n' dump vacation in the Phils or where ever.
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Postby MarcosZeitola » Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:57 am

A well written and honest account of how to do it right in the Philippines, publicduende! Thank you for sharing.

Your story seems close to mine, although I did not go there for the specific purpose of finding my dream girl; I found her before I visited and visited only to meet up with who I knew to be the one. She, too, came from a humble but intelligent family. Her parents both work in education, her father also training a softball team on the site and her mother being a principle. The family is close-knit and warm. You can have excellent conversations with all of them, her mother's a complete sweetheart and my father-in-law a very funny and jovial fellow. At times her grandfather and uncle also sit with us, and we all drink together as men. We talk, we laugh, we enjoy ourselves. It's a good environment to be in and I find that my views (especially the more conservative ones) are much better received then they are by most in the West.

It did not take me long to feel at home with my wife's family. They embraced me as one of their own, welcomed me and have treated me with nothing but kindness and the utmost respect since. They have given me valuable advice and helped me navigate to their lovely but terribly corrupt country. I may very well have end up being scammed, robbed, screwed over or played a fool if it wasn't for my wife and her family. Those of our forum members who had the misfortune of meeting questionable people in the Philippines would not have been anywhere near as pessimistic now had they met a family like my wife's.

Basically, I got lucky. I like to fancy myself a good judge of character and quite a sociable person. That doesn't mean I couldn't have been screwed over just as easily, had I gotten involved with the wrong crowd. There's about a hundred million Filipino's, most of them poor, and a good portion of them would scam the living daylights out of you if given the chance. So what you have to do is find the ones that won't. ;)
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Postby MarcosZeitola » Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:02 am

PS: The story of the Italian guy seems familiar to me. My father-in-law told me of an Italian man, relatively young and rather good-looking, who went to his village once. He played football with the children at school, and with some locals. Throughout the game he would drink San Miguel beer and somehow still managed to score. Needless to say, he ended up scoring in a multitude of ways!

This young Italian man, my father-in-law told me, was quite disillusioned with the women in his country. He had been married before and had a son, but his wife was a complete nutcase and cheated on him. He had been cheated on before, and decided to try his luck in the far East. He's been in the Philippines for several years now, and has now married a Filipina with whom he has a child. He lives somewhere on Luzon and is apparently very happy in his new life. Looks he says is a matter of taste but what made him choose a Filipina was ultimately a matter of character; their character more closely resembles his own.

I'd definitely be interested in a PM because I am curious if you and my father-in-law were talking about the same Italian. Probably not but you never know... it's a small world!
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Postby publicduende » Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:50 am

Ghost wrote:I see the point, and it is well made. Yet, one needs the means to do this. And luck. We have dating sites for Filipinas, not families. And I'm not going to go to the Phils (and most likely fail) to establish a network for finding a good girl. I'm sure it works great. But I am a man of limited means, so it isn't workable for me.

Perhaps most foreigners who go to the Phils don't do this for precisely this reason and because of the cheap and easy p4p. That's what I'll do. For the Phils, it's the only realistic option I have.


It is true that forging a friendship with one or two good families might take a little more than the canonical two weeks the average working American can afford to take, yet finding a good girl who ticks all the boxes as a prospective wife is definitely harder to accommodate in the same time window. This, even if one had the luck of arranging two or three meets via the online dating route. After being in the Phils, I do agree with many of the senior posters here who say the best girls, those who are truly worth choosing as life companions, are not available on a dating site, nor would think putting themselves up there.

Isn't this why many well-intentioned foreigners end up burned and in tears after their rushed off their feet, impromptu relationships go south fast? Unless they go there to exercise some pump & dump with women who know full well who Mr Charming Kano is and are happy to put their sex on the transaction counter, these men have an extremely limited lapse of time to meet a single (allegedly) good girl, talk to her, court her, spend some quality time with her and convince himself that yes, "she is the one", "she is good enough for me", "I love her". Even more rarely do they have the chance to rinse and repeat if the first one didn't give out the right vibes. So yes, "she's the one", and she'd better be, as they'll be putting their bottoms on a flight back to the the US or Europe a few days after. After which the painful ritual of keeping the hopes alive via constant Skype chats begins...until the next 2 weeks holidays allowance comes up.

Maybe one could get that lucky in 2 weeks, like one can win the national lottery by buying a single ticket. It's statistically possible, but hardly attainable. To me at least, and perhaps Outwest who seems to have immediately got the spirit of the OP, it's quite clear that the time pressure, high expectations and a little naivety in the face of an army of ill-intentioned women and consummate scammers is a dangerous mix that is unlikely to produce good results.

After I wrote the OP I spent a few extra minutes reflecting in bed, as my wife breathed placidly on the pillow next to mine. I cannot be more positive that, when seriously dating in a more traditional country, taking shortcuts and thinking they will work better than the local dating and mating ways because "we are we" and "we are special" will leave a bitter taste of void and disappointment in most people's mouths.

It takes time and effort to find a young woman who is marriage material, in the Philippines like anywhere else in the world. If anything, building reputable connections and exploring their own reputable connections, like a miner in a system of tunnels, until the elusive raw diamond is found, is in itself a shortest path approach and obviously better than diving into the wilderness with one's only compass being a couple of names and pixelated smiles obtained via dating sites.

Finally, "establishing a network for finding a good girl" is a lot easier than you think. If I remember well, Steve55 was basically invited to spend Xmas with a man he had met at the airport. So there you go: Filipino culture, real Filipino culture is so warm, inclusive and trustful that you could find yourself with in company of genuinely good and generous family hours after you sign your landing card. Time is an important factor, yet it takes desire, more than time, to make it happen.

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Postby publicduende » Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:29 am

davewe wrote:I've mentioned several times that finding a mentor/guide is very helpful. As Outwest says, so is meeting some nice families. But you can also make friends in the Philippines. It will take time but it will pay off 10 fold.

BTW, one of the other Filipina "friends" I made I set up with one of my best friends in the US and they too are now married. So networking isn't just confined to business practices in the US.


Absolutely valid point, Dave. By "families" we could mean anyone who, despite not being the objective of our search, has a honest heart that can be trusted for a genuine friendship and can be used as a "discovery proxy", to use a software architectures term, to find more quality people, until the suitable girl is found.

Apart from relating my Italian friend's story as it happened, the reason why I focussed on the idea of befriending family men is because of the way Filipino society is structured and the much wider social freedoms men are afforded compared to women. I trust an online friendship with a woman is a precious one that, as in your case, can be shared with your loved ones (good people always resonate well with other good people, that's a fact of life). Yet capturing the curiosity of a Filipino man and starting a friendship with him is probably a lot easier.

Perhaps I can understand this a bit better because I was born and bred in a "southern-style" society that only in recent years parted ways from the more traditional societies of the Philippines and Latin America (southern Italy was as much as Spaniard colony as the above). Filipino men do not have this idea that a friendship should be only functional to an end, a business end, or a "spot transaction" exchange of favours, or a hidden agenda. If you are a good man and it shows, most Filipino will love being your friends for the sake of being your friends. They may be keen for you to share your view the world with them, or curious whether you will like their wives' homemade food when they invite you for lunches and family parties, or a million other benign intentions.

Being honest and not showing yourself obsessively focussed on finding a woman quick will naturally attract the right kind of men, at least out of initial curiosity. Consider that, especially in less metropolitan areas where pace of life is slower, relationships and camaraderie across different age brackets and generations also build more naturally and flow more smoothly. Marcos Zeitola summarised it very concisely when he says he loves being invited to sit with his father in law and other senior figures in his extended family, for a few beers, a game of cards and a laugh.

Case in point, let me tell you something that happened just yesterday. One of my earliest connections in the Philippines is Christian, a Filipino men a couple of years my junior, who happened to be the cousin of the Filipino cleaning lady I used to have when living in Milan. At the time she had told me she had a relative who was working in banking IT and she would have happily exchanged his information with me. It was 2006, the year Italy won the world cup, and being Christian a big fan of football, we clicked instantly and have remained good penpals every since. I had a chance to meet him in person in Manila last year when I visited, he chose to devote 3 days of his precious (in that scarce) holidays pool to showing me around Manila, have some drinking fun in Malate and the Bay Area and generally showing me his friendship was for real.

Yesterday morning Christian contacts me on Facebook asking me, for the first time, a favour. He requires a small software tool to complement the Excel spreadsheets he uses in his job. I have some free time as it's a Saturday and I craft a prototype of said tool in a few hours. He comes back to me this morning, as I write this, saying he likes the idea a lot and he will be proposing his managers to allocate a small budget to let me develop this into something that can be production quality and deployed cross-team. So there you go, a friendship borne for the pleasure of friendship has spun out a small business rapport on the side. And the most rewarding thing won't obviously be the money (although adding an "exotic" branch of JP Morgan Chase to my consultancy roster intrigues me), but the fact that a reputable Filipino showed me an unexpected facet of his friendship.
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Postby publicduende » Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:31 am

gsjackson wrote:You know, looking back over my experiences, PD may really be on to something here. The cutest face, and the hottest body (two separate women), not just that I have ever dated, but almost that I have ever seen, were essentially bestowed upon me by male members of their families.

Long stories short -- and I've told both here before -- the hot bod was a Moroccan, who called me (even though I hadn't previously spoken to her) after I went through an extensive "interview" over many beers with her cousin and several other Moroccan guys who knew her.

The face was 16, I was 44. I mentioned to her stepfather, a member of a subculture (sport) in which I was highly respected for my capabilities, that I thought she was stunningly cute, not expecting anything to come of it. Soon I was going on "double dates" with him, his wife and her daughter, and he told me I could start dating her regularly when she turned 18.

Maybe time to start putting the network of male friends back together.


That wouldn't be a bad idea. Would you be back to Morocco, then? :)
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Postby publicduende » Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:37 am

MarcosZeitola wrote:PS: The story of the Italian guy seems familiar to me. My father-in-law told me of an Italian man, relatively young and rather good-looking, who went to his village once. He played football with the children at school, and with some locals. Throughout the game he would drink San Miguel beer and somehow still managed to score. Needless to say, he ended up scoring in a multitude of ways!

This young Italian man, my father-in-law told me, was quite disillusioned with the women in his country. He had been married before and had a son, but his wife was a complete nutcase and cheated on him. He had been cheated on before, and decided to try his luck in the far East. He's been in the Philippines for several years now, and has now married a Filipina with whom he has a child. He lives somewhere on Luzon and is apparently very happy in his new life. Looks he says is a matter of taste but what made him choose a Filipina was ultimately a matter of character; their character more closely resembles his own.

I'd definitely be interested in a PM because I am curious if you and my father-in-law were talking about the same Italian. Probably not but you never know... it's a small world!


LOL I don't think it's the same man, as the friend as in the story lives in Davao since he arrived in the Philippines. One aspect is strikingly similar, though. My friend too was married with an Italian woman and has a 13-yo son, and moved to Davao after his relationship deteriorated. Although he was never clear to me on that, I assume he was separated while he was engaged with his Pinay cutie and married as soon as he obtained divorce.

I would also agree that Italians match Filipinos quite nicely in terms of personality, as long as they are from the South. As I mentioned on an earlier post, Southern Italy was a colony of Spain up until its unification in mid 19th century. As well as having the same socio-cultural legacy, we are both "southerners", which explain why your father in law's friend find himself as at home in provincial Luzon as he could have been in his small levantine Italian town. I had exactky the same vibes when I was there.
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