Indonesia = future philippines?

[Jester]

About Indonesian and Malaysian Chinese?

It's funny. My wife and I have talked about what each of us would do if the other died. I told her I'd probably remarry. I might go to Indonesia and find another wife there. I wouldn't want one whose remotely feminist, and culturally I like having a wife from there. I'm also about 2 points better looking or more desirable on a scale of 1 to 10 in Indonesia and I could probably find a prettier younger woman. Also, more women are virgins. I'd want a virgin or a widow who hadn't had sex with anyone but her husband (preferably a faithful one who didn't give her some disease.)

My wife told me if that happened to choose a good step mother for our children. She didn't want me to marry a Chinese woman, though, because she said they are 'cerewet.' That means loud, complaining, bossy, or something like that. Sometimes they use the word for babies fussing sometimes.

Maybe some Chinese women are like that over there. I think some Indonesian Chinese women would make good wives, and some of them are better looking, IMO, than the overage Indonesian.

I don't know that much about Chinese from Malaysia. I know one couple. She seems like a good wife and mother type. Their accent is similar to a Singapore accent, so if you can stand to be married to a woman with that kind of accent, go for it. I'm not thinking of the kind of British Singapore accent, more the Chinese one. And they also have this really stressed schwa sound like of like the /^/ sound in 'but' but a little different. I find it a little rough on the ears at times, but not too bad. I think more Chinese speak Chinese. Some speak Chinese and English and can barely get on in Malaysian. I don't think I've ever met a Chinese Indonesian who raised there who wasn't fluent in Indonesian. It's hard to find one in Jakarta who speaks Chinese.

If I were single and had to choose between wife hunting among the Chinese in China versus Malaysia, I might choose Malaysia, partly because I am more familiar with the culture and trust it more to produce marriage-friendly wives than mainland Chinese culture, which I know less about, but which I suspect may have been contaminated by Communist thought.


There is a stereotype of Indonesian Chinese as being rich, mainly because a lot of them are. There is a kind of Chinese merchant class. The government wouldn't let them own farmland like local 'pribumi' people. Chinese in Medan seem more into being Chinese, speaking their Hokkian or Ke dialects or whatever. I road in an elevator in an office building in Medan once and two Chinese people started speaking Chinese to each other. Most Chinese around there don't seem to know Mandarin, though some of the educated ones do. The government suppressed the Chinese language and celebrations for a long time and pressured Chinese to take local names as part of an anti-Communist agenda. Some have studied Mandarin.

My concern for someone marrying a Chinese girl from the merchant class is that she may have grow up with a made picking up her socks off the floor and doing the laundry. My wife is from a poorer family. She watched the family shop in middle school, washed the clothing for uncles when she went to stay in the big city, and worked hard her whole life. I wouldn't want to be married to the pampered princess type. Some of them learn to keep a good home. I have a friend whose wife is Indonesian Chinese. They both have good jobs, and she's busy working. Their house was dirty. They had lots of girls. The girls weren't cleaning and keeping the place neat. Batak are into training the girls to keep the house clean. You'd probably find the same with poor or middle class Javanese and other groups.

Lots of Chinese are Christians. Traditionally, Batak, Ambones, and Manado are some people-groups where many of the people profess Christianity. There are also some predominantly Christian Papua tribes who look like Australian Aboriginese and various other peoples. Javanese are mostly Muslim but there are lots and lots of Javanese Christians.

Sunda is like 99% or more Muslim. Aceh, Malayu, Minang, and Madura people traditionally tend to be Muslim as well. Ethnic Balinese tend to be Hindu, probably 99% or so. Lombok is predominantly Muslim. Kalimantan (Borneo) has communities that have migrated there from other peoplegroups who can be Muslim or Christian. There are Dayak Christians, animists, and Hindu-Kaharingan. Legally, you can't marry a Muslim in Indonesia if you aren't one. If a Muslim girl does marry you, it's possible some Islamic scholar or family member may encourage her to leave you. I've heard of that when the husband left Islam. But it seems to be rare overall.

If I've commented on wanting my wife to be a bit more obedient or docile, she's said she's not a Javanese woman. Apparently, they have a reputation for being submissive wives. Javanese tend to be polite and hide their feelings unless they are extremely upset. Batak tend to be more out in the open with their thoughts and feelings.

Thanks for this excellent post MrMan. Much of this is new to me and also I imagine to most men here.

+1

[MrMan]

newlifephilippines,

Jakarta is a bit of a melting pot and also a vegetable stew. Lots of people are mixed between ethnic groups and some are pure whatever ethnic group. Sometimes it doesn't matter.

If you marry a Batak, the family may require that they adopt you in and give you a family name. So you are Batak and the kids are Batak. I think they say if your dad is Batak you are Batak anyway, but they adopt women who marry in, too. So I guess you can say you are half Batak, but they accept he kids as Batak.

With Javanese if your dad is Javanese, you are Javanese. If your mom is Padang, you are Padang. Their traditional culture is matriarchal, though they tend to be very Muslim.

I don't think there is a majority ethnic group in Jakarta, but the Javanese could be the majority. The island is named after them. I think there are about 80 or 90 million Javanese or so in the country, probably mostly on Jave, though they've settled all over, too. The next largest group indigenous to the island is the Sundanese with maybe 30 million, and heir heartland is the area right around Jakarta to the west and south of it. They are heavily Islamic though their ancestors used to be part of a Buddhist kingdom.

Jakarta is the capital city, and especially during the Suharto era, money was funneled back to the capital. So people from all over the country and the world live there. Just about every people group that isn't a stone age tribe lives there, and some of the stone age tribes members got out of the stone age and live there, too.

As far as cultures go, having a Javanese wife could be a very good thing. I like the Javanese. Indonesians in general and especially the Javanese have a kind of cultural ethic of trying to make people feel comfortable and welcome, especially guests. I like the Batak, too. They are more outspoken and sometimes wear their hearts on their sleeves a bit more. It's fairly common for lawyers to be Batak there. The Sunda tend to have high divorce rates. They'd rather marry and divorce than never marry at all. Some of them go through several husbands and wives over the course of their lives, and they tend to be very Muslim. They say Sunda are like Java, only better looking. I haven't noticed that so much. They look the same to me. There are plenty of Sunda-Java mixed people, but some people say they shouldn't intermarry like they say about the Scotts and Irish. I can't tell the difference between Java and Sunda food that much, except for that tamarind soup the Sunda. If you eat at a Sundanese restaurant, you'll probably eat fried fish, even if you are in the mountains or somewhere non coastal.

A lot of the Manado people could be mistaken for Chinese. Manado may be more like Filippinos culturally in that it's important to dress well and have big parties for certain events even if they can't afford them. The food is really interesting and tasty if you like something exotic, lots of spices, and a really good pork bean soup which tastes European but with all those fresh Indonesian spices in it. They were colonized by the Spanish for a short while, I think, then the Dutch, with some Portuguese influence. It's mostly Catholic and Protestant in that area.

[Bao3niang]

If my wife died I'd have trouble considering remarriage, at least within a few years. It is hard for me to let go of someone I truly loved.

What if the other woman who doesn't treat my children well?


The Indonesian Chinese girl I've started talking to on DIA has retained her Chinese surname of Yang. Are Indonesian Chinese materialistic and bitchy VS. Ethnic Indonesians?

[MrMan]

Boa3niang,

The Chinese are known as 'the Jews of Asia'. A lot of them have worked hard and built up businesses while some of the local Indonesians were fine with just subsisting. A friend of mine was comparing the Chinese guy who owned a restaurant to his ethnic Indonesian competitor. Both were street vendors. The Chinese guy scrimped and saved to put more money into the business. The other guy just stayed a street vendor. But 20 years later, the Chinese guy owned several restaurants. My friend's wife is Chinese. I've heard similar Chinese Indonesian explanations of social jealousy from others.

Some of the Chinese are rich and are less likely to intermarry with other people groups. If a Chinese intermarries, the kids aren't considered Chinese. Some Chinese Indonesians are okay with their kids marrying whites, but otherwise, not intermarrying with anyone else but Chinese.

I don't think all Chinese Indonesians are 'cerewet.' My wife apparently bought into the stereotype, and it could be more of a local Medan stereotype she picked up when she was a kid. Some Chinese are materialistic, but so are some ethnic Indonesian women. Some of the Chinese Christians there are extremely generous, too. And not all Chinese are rich like the stereotype. Some are poor.

You will also date an individual, not a stereotype. If you find a woman with the right personality, it doesn't matter what the stereotype about her people-group is like.

My wife looked into her heritage and found out she had a Chinese grandfather. When she said Chinese women are cerewet once, I may have asked her if she got it from her Chinese side. She may also be part Sunda or Java. We think her grandmother was mixed rather than pure Javanese.

[newlifeinphilippines]

newlifephilippines,

Jakarta is a bit of a melting pot and also a vegetable stew. Lots of people are mixed between ethnic groups and some are pure whatever ethnic group. Sometimes it doesn't matter.

If you marry a Batak, the family may require that they adopt you in and give you a family name. So you are Batak and the kids are Batak. I think they say if your dad is Batak you are Batak anyway, but they adopt women who marry in, too. So I guess you can say you are half Batak, but they accept he kids as Batak.

With Javanese if your dad is Javanese, you are Javanese. If your mom is Padang, you are Padang. Their traditional culture is matriarchal, though they tend to be very Muslim.

I don't think there is a majority ethnic group in Jakarta, but the Javanese could be the majority. The island is named after them. I think there are about 80 or 90 million Javanese or so in the country, probably mostly on Jave, though they've settled all over, too. The next largest group indigenous to the island is the Sundanese with maybe 30 million, and heir heartland is the area right around Jakarta to the west and south of it. They are heavily Islamic though their ancestors used to be part of a Buddhist kingdom.

Jakarta is the capital city, and especially during the Suharto era, money was funneled back to the capital. So people from all over the country and the world live there. Just about every people group that isn't a stone age tribe lives there, and some of the stone age tribes members got out of the stone age and live there, too.

As far as cultures go, having a Javanese wife could be a very good thing. I like the Javanese. Indonesians in general and especially the Javanese have a kind of cultural ethic of trying to make people feel comfortable and welcome, especially guests. I like the Batak, too. They are more outspoken and sometimes wear their hearts on their sleeves a bit more. It's fairly common for lawyers to be Batak there. The Sunda tend to have high divorce rates. They'd rather marry and divorce than never marry at all. Some of them go through several husbands and wives over the course of their lives, and they tend to be very Muslim. They say Sunda are like Java, only better looking. I haven't noticed that so much. They look the same to me. There are plenty of Sunda-Java mixed people, but some people say they shouldn't intermarry like they say about the Scotts and Irish. I can't tell the difference between Java and Sunda food that much, except for that tamarind soup the Sunda. If you eat at a Sundanese restaurant, you'll probably eat fried fish, even if you are in the mountains or somewhere non coastal.

A lot of the Manado people could be mistaken for Chinese. Manado may be more like Filippinos culturally in that it's important to dress well and have big parties for certain events even if they can't afford them. The food is really interesting and tasty if you like something exotic, lots of spices, and a really good pork bean soup which tastes European but with all those fresh Indonesian spices in it. They were colonized by the Spanish for a short while, I think, then the Dutch, with some Portuguese influence. It's mostly Catholic and Protestant in that area.

where city did you live in? Can one go off the beaten path and visit the tropical jungles or is it too dangerous to do that there? What places are to be avoided?

[Bao3niang]

I am full Chinese, 3/4 southern 1/4 northern.

[MrMan]

newlifeinphilippines,

I lived in Jakarta and some of the surrounding suburbs during my years there. The Indonesian word translated for 'jungle' is the same word for 'forest.' It's 'hutan.' Orangutan means 'man of the forest. I've been in an Indonesian forest before. I haven't been in a 'jungle' completely overgrown where you can't go anywhere.

Why would it be too dangerous to go to the woods? Go with someone, preferably someone who knows about the local flora and fauna. Wear mosquito repellent. There are cobras and other critters in that part of the world. If you get way off the beaten path in Sumatra, there are elephants, orangutan, and tigers. I went to a family reunion and had a chat with a cousin who was a dear hunter for a living. He'd never seen a tiger, but he'd love it if he could shoot one and sell the parts for a lot of money. I guess endangered species body parts are expensive if used in Chinese medicine. Chances are you won't come across those animals on a typical trip to the woods, especially in Java. I've read there are still some rhino in parts of western Java. That island is rather densely populated. There are plenty of rural areas, though.

I knew an Australian when I lived in Jakarta who had grown up on Borneo. He liked to go wild pig hunting with people from up there. He used to hang out with Dayaks and other people like that and spend time in the wild. He brought some boar meat back. He told us wild boar tasted a bit like beef, and it did kind of have a beef texture.

If you like animals, Jakarta has a good zoo with an interesting primate center that has lots of local gibbons and some African primates. There is also a kind of drive through zoo a little further south in the mountains going up to Punchak. You drive your car right through a road with lions on either side and with tigers on either side. Big African cow/moose type creaters licked my windshield as I cracked it to give them peanuts. I road a camel and an elephant there. That's not really going out in the wild, but it was fun.

Up in Sumatera, I went to Bukit Tinggi, which means 'High Peak' We went to see a giant plus sign shaped man-made cavern called the Caves of Japan or Caverns of Japan (Goa Jepang.) They say the Japanese during WWII sent out handbills to Java and elsewhere asking for men to work in a gold mine, had them dig a bunker, and then had them line up for wages, and then killed each one and chucked him in the stream at the end of one of the tunnels rather than paying him.

While I was there at the little cafes that served western food up there in the middle of nowhere, a backpacker young woman told me she was going on a hike with a tour guide, I think, and other backpackers all night. The plan was to get to a peak of a mountain at sunset right as they got to a beautiful mountain lake. I asked my wife if she wanted to do that. She said 'no.' I thought so. I might have done it if I were single and didn't have anywhere to go the next day. There are lots of activities like that. Hiking Mt. Bromo is something some outdoorsy types do on Java. You definitely want to go up with someone else if you do these things. I heard of an Indonesian dying from hypothermia up there. It's in the 50's, but a lot of people from that climate think 60 is freezing cold unless they are from the mountains and they are used to the weather dropping down low. I've never done it, but I hear if you get to the peak of Bromo right at sunrise, the view of the sun glistening off the tea leaves all down the mountain is spectacular.

[newjazz]

I know this is a general question but, are indonesian women better looking than phils? I got this impression just window shopping through some dating sites. I also stumbled onto a youtube documentary on napal and i was really impressed with how beautiful the women were, so i guess that would be a good reference.....

[MrMan]

It depends on your taste. I've never been to the Philippines, but based on Filippinas I've seen, my guess is for me personally, I'd imagine if I saw 100 young Filippinas chosen at random from Manilla and compared the to 100 young Indonesian women chosen at random from Jakarta, I might find more Filippinas attracted. A lot of them come from the same Malay ethnic stock, but I think the Filippinas tend to have more mixture with other Asian people groups and also the Spanish, which can mix well, but that's purely a matter of personal taste on looks.

Be that as it may, there are plenty of pretty women in Indonesia just like all the other countries around there. Filippinas usually speak English better, though. But there are plenty of Indonesians who speak English, too. Even the motorcycle for hire guys and taxi drivers might know a few phrases and try to use it.

[Falcon]

My wife told me if that happened to choose a good step mother for our children. She didn't want me to marry a Chinese woman, though, because she said they are 'cerewet.' That means loud, complaining, bossy, or something like that. Sometimes they use the word for babies fussing sometimes.

Cerewet comes from Javanese, and it means fussy, strict, nagging.

I would totally agree, and even Winston has talked about it in great detail in this article (Critical Observations about East Asian Mentality and Culture).
http://www.happierabroad.com/Asian_Mentality.htm

Winston says it's taboo to talk about it within Taiwanese and Chinese circles. The funny thing is that SE Asians, especially Filipinos, Indonesians, and Burmese, talk about it all the time. It's similar to the Anglo vs. Latino cultural divide in so many ways.

There is a stereotype of Indonesian Chinese as being rich, mainly because a lot of them are.

Go to the Tugu Selamat Datang area in Jakarta, and the shopping malls are 50% rich Chinese Indonesian and 50% rich native Indonesian. The Chinese Indonesians there all speak a kind of rapid-fire colloquial Jakarta Indonesian loaded with contractions and slangs (gue = I, lu = you). It's different from how the Javanese speak Indonesian in Central Java, which has more Javanisms and easier to understand for me. Many of the guys are dressed up like they just got off work from the office, with neatly ironed white button-up shirts and leather shoes. A typical native Indonesian peasant or slum dweller would not be let in. The staff at the mall gates would assume I'm one of the rich Jakarta Chinese based on my appearance, and would open the door for me and be extremely polite. But if some scuzzy-looking dark-skinned kid showed up, he'd be treated rudely and told to get out.

The Chinese in Kalimantan, however, are very poor, and are farmers, street sweepers, and becak drivers just like the natives. They get along fairly well with the other ethnic groups. In Kalimantan, it's mostly Madurese who are unwelcome, and the Dayaks have committed genocide against them, but not the Malays or Chinese.

The Chinese in Manado get along very well with the local natives, and they often intermarry as long as they're both Christians. The Christian areas of Sulawesi are very much like the Batak area in many ways.

[newlifeinphilippines]

I posted this below in another thread but this is one reason why I believe there is no future in phil or thailand for finding a long term quality gf IF you have high standards like me which is higher than 90 percent of this forum. (I wouldn't wife a girl who is less than a 7.5 without kids) and a wouldn't feel comfortable with a long term girlfriend unless she was at least a 7 with no kids.

Thats why im headed to indonesia and maybe other places in south east asia like vietnam in the future where sexpats like Will n Dowd and Mr Bluelight cant ruin the place because the stiff visa requirements only allow 60 days then they have to fly their a** out. The problem about phil and thailand to a lesser extent was it was easy for sexpats to just plop down and spend months and years without leaving the country really (famous bus visa trips right at the border in thailand) and going through dozens of girls. So there isn't that many foreigners but each foreigners goes through dozens so you can see why I been saying phil and thailand are overrun and thats why im searching for something better. Too inconvenient for sexpats who want the easiest denominator. Even thailand is now doing that by saying y ou must leave by plane every 60 days instead of bus but they still have 1 year tourist visas for multiple entry i think which are not that hard to get (i dont think indonesia hands those out?) and its already too popular to change the trend.

[newlifeinphilippines]

This video of filipinos visiting indonesia got me pumped. Well presented with music.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND5zgaIaBbM

[newlifeinphilippines]

Indonesia doesnt look so good now LOL


In March 2008, the Indonesian parliament passed a bill criminalizing the access of internet sites containing violent or pornographic material. Anyone found guilty of the new offense could be jailed for up to three years or have to pay a heavy fine.


http://www.zdnet.com/indonesia-blocks-1 ... 000001301/



http://www.zdnet.com/blog/facebook/man- ... -post/7796

[Banano]

Keep in mind that 80-90% of Indonesian women are circumcised, some of you might not like circumcised vagina

[newlifeinphilippines]

Keep in mind that 80-90% of Indonesian women are circumcised, some of you might not like circumcised v****a

is that true? Maybe muslims?