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China's Unmarried "Leftover Women"

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.

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China's Unmarried "Leftover Women"

Postby Taco » Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:39 pm

Shanghai women are not very popular in China.

China's Unmarried "Leftover Women"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9hNHe7fdrQ&list=PLqq_mvRnhU-pR_tMY7fDCPQGQXoRzU21x&index=22
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Re: China's Unmarried "Leftover Women"

Postby MarcosZeitola » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:01 pm

Pretty sure there's a leftover man or two for every leftover woman in China. Just because they have an education and a career they all seem to think they deserve to marry a movie-star looking guy, tall, handsome, sexy and intelligent. He also needs to have a good paycheck, income, status, an apartment, a car and network. Being from a good family helps too. They won't settle for anything short of Prince Charming, but Prince Charming is a rare commodity. Most men simply don't measure up to their unrealistic expectations.

I expect more Chinese men to leave China in the (near) future, and get with foreign women. I've seen quite a few who leave for Africa and marry local women, effectively colonizing the dark continent. There's also poor Chinese farmers who marry Russian women near the border, some even moving to Russia so as to bypass the One Child policy. And of course, Chinese expats to the West aren't exactly a new phenomenon either.

I don't think there's that much of a difference anymore between an educated and wealthy Chinese woman and a Western woman, in terms of dateability. They don't exactly seem like marriage material to me, hence why they have to consult with match makers and group dating, where parents swap pics of their sons and daughters like some in-person tinder meat-market. Like in virtually all countries, the only solution (unless you get lucky and win the lottery) is to go rural.

The leftover women are being left over for a reason. Let them die lonely spinsters, it's their own choice and the consequences are entirely theirs.
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Re: China's Unmarried "Leftover Women"

Postby Yohan » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:07 pm

This is an video already some months old.
What do these women really expect? What says this woman in this video? She is 25, has a good income and is clearly overdemanding.

'I am looking for a man who makes more money than I do....He has to be tall 5-9' 'He must have his own house etc....'
What is she willing to give in return?

How can an average young Chinese man ever fulfill such demands?

If she says something like 'I am looking for a man who is earning about the same as I do and we will buy together a house and share the loan...' - this would be the right way to find a good husband easily.

Stay away from such materialistic women, the only advice I can give to any man, local or foreigner.
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Re: China's Unmarried "Leftover Women"

Postby Yohan » Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:57 pm

MarcosZeitola wrote:I don't think there's that much of a difference anymore between an educated and wealthy Chinese woman and a Western woman, in terms of dateability. They don't exactly seem like marriage material to me, hence why they have to consult with match makers and group dating, where parents swap pics of their sons and daughters like some in-person tinder meat-market. Like in virtually all countries, the only solution (unless you get lucky and win the lottery) is to go rural.

The leftover women are being left over for a reason. Let them die lonely spinsters, it's their own choice and the consequences are entirely theirs.

Let me explain something, I think you are not so familiar with China.

This obviously highly educated woman in this video is from a place in China - Shanghai - which is one of these international meeting points for rich businessmen. And yes, corrrect, there is little difference between those Chinese women and Western women.
They are highly materialistic orientated.

-----

However most Chinese women do not enjoy such a living standard as this woman in this video. Visit China and rent a car and drive out of any major city for one hour. You will be surprised how primitive China really can be away from the coastline and away from these international cities.

Japanese farmers and fishermen are often interested in Chinese women and find them obviously easily in China mainland.

The Chinese income is merely on a level of Thailand. - China for the individual Chinese is not a rich country, and the wealth in China is remarkably unfair distributed. Worse than even comparing China with Philippines or Thailand. Many Chinese people have really nothing, working like slaves - others are swimming in money.

About introduction/ parents also looking around /matchmakers etc. it should be noticed that this is often the way it is done in Japan, Korea and China, with a lot of gossip and go-betweens to finally introduce men and women who are interested in friendship and marriage. Not so unusual as you might think.

Maybe I also should mention, that Chinese girls are often nice liars. I was living with a rich Chinese family in Malaysia before moving on to Japan. Plenty of houses, plenty of land, production/export of palm-oil, rubber, coconuts, etc. etc.

Chinese young women mention often how rich they are, but with a deeper look, you will realize soon, that the girl has nothing, and all what makes her so rich belongs to her father, her uncle, the husband of the ex-wife of her father and so on. Chinese families often keep their wealth together, but are unwilling to share it - except for the basic needs - with a non-productive daughter or niece, and asking her in a very direct talk to look out for a 'rich husband'... a husband who will join the rich family, making them even richer... That's how it works often in China.

It is not easy for a foreigner who is not a Chinese, overseas Chinese or cannot speak Chinese at all to meet 'just ordinary' simple Chinese girls from a smaller cities - and forget about rural areas, no women there, many left to the cities, at least to work in a factory to cover their basic needs.

You see yourself in this forum, that members who are mostly interested in China are Asian-Americans of Chinese origin, like zboy1, Winston himself, and there is this young friendly Chinese student in Canada (Bao3 or similar) and some others.

I also share your opinion, that a typical Chinese woman is maybe not the best choice for a Western foreigner without any roots to China.

-----

About introduction services in Asia, unlike in Western countries, they are often respected to do a good job to filter out not only men unfit for marriage, but doing the same with women. At least you know in advance who you might meet. Introduction services are often expensive in Japan, charging both, the man and the woman with fees.

Just a short story: I remember well in Tokyo a Chinese woman, not bad looking at all, working in the Chinese company together with my wife (my wife also can speak Chinese, but is not of Chinese origin), good Japanese and English, looks lovely, single, really wants to marry etc. I met her when she came to our house and had a really good impression of her.

I heard later on from my wife, the introduction service she paid kicked her out and gave her the money back (about USD 3000,-) because she was a liar and absolutely unfit to marriage introduction. It turned out, she had a retarded child in a care home, was divorced, was lying about her age (she was 36 and not 28), had unpaid loans - and believe it or not - she was still demanding this and that, and a bit more from this and a bit more from that from everybody, including her employer. The Chinese company in Tokyo had finally enough and kicked her out for bad behavior (this is really rare in a Chinese company!) - we never heard from her again, my wife gave her some money because she was so poor... of course my wife never got her money back.

I only want to point out that the good (and expensive) introduction companies in China and Japan share indeed some responsibility (not like Western dating services), they really screen their members, there are a lot of scam marriages going on in China - marry me, I love you, I still love you give me money, I don't need you anymore, we divorce and give me the half you own...

China has now a new law since a short while regarding property and to prevent scam marriage - the person who bought the house, paid for it completely and registered it BEFORE marriage free of loans will be the sole owner after divorce. At least after divorce you will be in your own home - your property is protected. That's really better than in Western countries.
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Re: China's Unmarried "Leftover Women"

Postby droid » Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:50 pm

yohan wrote:the person who bought the house, paid for it completely and registered it BEFORE marriage free of loans will be the sole owner after divorce. At least after divorce you will be in your own home - your property is protected. That's really better than in Western countries.
NICE
1)Too much of one thing defeats the purpose.
2)Everybody is full of it. What's your hypocrisy?
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Re: China's Unmarried "Leftover Women"

Postby Yohan » Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:04 pm

droid wrote:
yohan wrote:the person who bought the house, paid for it completely and registered it BEFORE marriage free of loans will be the sole owner after divorce. At least after divorce you will be in your own home - your property is protected. That's really better than in Western countries.
NICE


Thailand has very similar regulations, the property law is very strong, the right of the landlord is overriding family law.
This is true even if the husband is a foreigner and the marriage is legally registered in Thailand (Thai marriage certificate, not just a ceremony in a temple)

Thai law is however tricky and if you are a Western man, without any legal knowledge, without reading Thai and blind of 'love' suffering of yellow fever, some Thai girls and their family members know how to get around this law.

However, no question about, if the legal setup is correctly done in Thailand, it is the Thai ex-wife + her children who is (are) moving out and the foreign man stays in his rooms as owner.

BTW, Thailand has no law about child support and alimony, and no claim is possible solely out of co-habitation. Not bad at all for men. Unfortunately Western men often refuse to listen to legal advice and are doing what the girl and her parents etc. are telling them. 'My Thai bargirl is different' and such BS-talk.
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Re: China's Unmarried "Leftover Women"

Postby Ghost » Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:01 pm

Yohan wrote:China has now a new law since a short while regarding property and to prevent scam marriage - the person who bought the house, paid for it completely and registered it BEFORE marriage free of loans will be the sole owner after divorce. At least after divorce you will be in your own home - your property is protected. That's really better than in Western countries.


Yes, this is a good indicator that China is relatively safe. It doesn't make and enforce misandrist laws like in the U.S.

What should also clue people in about this is the very fact that the women are called "leftover" when it comes to marriage. Here in the U.S., no matter how old, they are always considered (well, by media and such, not by men) eligible for marriage. Calling women leftover after a certain age is strikingly non-feminist.

Anyway, all that said, China is not easy to figure out, and as with all countries, you have to figure out that particular society's lies, decipher them, and then go from there. You can't take...anything...at face value. And that goes for jobs and marriage and even just day to day business.
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Re: China's Unmarried "Leftover Women"

Postby Yohan » Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:38 am

Ghost wrote:Anyway, all that said, China is not easy to figure out, and as with all countries, you have to figure out that particular society's lies, decipher them, and then go from there. You can't take...anything...at face value. And that goes for jobs and marriage and even just day to day business.

Yes, very true.

In China, you can find any type of a person you can image, quite similar to USA.

'Chinese girl' is a very wide definition, a small Hokkien Chinese girl in Malaysia is a Chinese, a tall Cantonese girl in Sinagpore is a Chinese, a girl working in rural China in a dirty factory for minimum wage without any pleasure living in poverty is a Chinese, a girl swimming in money in HongKong spoiled by her rich parents is a Chinese girl, some Chinese girls are stupid, some are intelligent, some are lazy, some are busy and greedy, some are liars, some are very honest and so on and so on.

Quite different from what I see here in Japan - the Japanese people are more unified.
China is too big, too many people dispersed over a wide area and add all these overseas Chinese in Asia and elsewhere.

There is really no guideline you can follow when considering 'dating Chinese girls'.

The only advice I can give - if you really consider to contact ordinary Chinese people is to study Chinese in both spoken and written, standard Chinese. Many ordinary people in and from China and neighboring countries are often not good in foreign languages. Get on an airplane - travel through China and some other Asian countries with a big Chinese community and see yourself.
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Re: China's Unmarried "Leftover Women"

Postby Yohan » Sun Dec 07, 2014 4:50 am

Ghost wrote:Yes, this is a good indicator that China is relatively safe. It doesn't make and enforce misandrist laws like in the U.S.


This is not only typical for China, I think, most Asia does not enforce misandrist laws.

Asian countries I know well, Japan and Thailand, Cambodia and Malaysia do not have any law I am aware of which might harm men in a personal relationship with a woman, regardless if you are foreigner or not.

Only Philippines, South Korea and litte Singapore have some Western tendency towards feminism, as they are strongly influenced by USA politically and Western moral values since decades.

However even in these countries, there is some resistance, for example in South Korea to cheat your husband is a crime, which can send you to jail - divorce first is the rule. In Philippines it seems, such laws are only for the rich one, the poor majority there just does not care, all are equals, and equally poor.
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Re: China's Unmarried "Leftover Women"

Postby Jester » Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:12 am

Yohan wrote:
Chinese young women mention often how rich they are, but with a deeper look, you will realize soon, that the girl has nothing, and all what makes her so rich belongs to her father, her uncle, the husband of the ex-wife of her father and so on. Chinese families often keep their wealth together, but are unwilling to share it - except for the basic needs - with a non-productive daughter or niece, and asking her in a very direct talk to look out for a 'rich husband'... a husband who will join the rich family, making them even richer... That's how it works often in China.

It is not easy for a foreigner who is not a Chinese, overseas Chinese or cannot speak Chinese at all to meet 'just ordinary' simple Chinese girls from a smaller cities - and forget about rural areas, no women there, many left to the cities, at least to work in a factory to cover their basic needs.

You see yourself in this forum, that members who are mostly interested in China are Asian-Americans of Chinese origin, like zboy1, Winston himself, and there is this young friendly Chinese student in Canada (Bao3 or similar) and some others.

I also share your opinion, that a typical Chinese woman is maybe not the best choice for a Western foreigner without any roots to China.



Very valuable detail - thank you


China has now a new law since a short while regarding property and to prevent scam marriage - the person who bought the house, paid for it completely and registered it BEFORE marriage free of loans will be the sole owner after divorce. At least after divorce you will be in your own home - your property is protected. That's really better than in Western countries.



Thats a GREAT law. It protects men from scammers... it encourages men to buy houses... and thus it increase the supply of bachelors with houses for women to go after. Plus it will decrease divorce.

All around a great law.
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Re: China's Unmarried "Leftover Women"

Postby Yohan » Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:46 pm

http://www.somervillenjfamilylawblog.com/2011/09/new-chinese-divorce-law-causes-upset-in-families.shtml

This article from USA offers a good summery in English about the new Chinese property law and how it has to be applied in case of divorce.

It makes it clear, what was bought and paid by the man (and often with the help of his parents) BEFORE marriage will belong to him and his parents and not to the ex-wife, who contributed nothing.

I am not sure however about mortgage, as in Thailand the property has to be registered before marriage with the name of the buyer only, and not with restrictions of loans, for example by a bank or similar financial institution which is withholding the land titel.

What happens in such a case, if the ex-wife claims, she also paid for the loan during marriage and is claiming her part of the property? I am not sure.
In Thailand the FOREIGN man, who buys a condominium has to pay it with foreign currency and has to pay it 100 % without any loan to become the owner with the name in the land titel. China should apply the law in a similar way for a foreign husband - maybe somebody knows more about those details?

Feminists are very angry, but this interpretation is confirmed by the Supreme Court of the PRC.

I would not call this ruling a step backward, but a BIG step forward, just my opinion.

New Chinese divorce law causes upset in families
On behalf of David W. Trombadore, Attorney at Law posted in Divorce on Friday, September 9, 2011.

On August 13, the Supreme Court of China handed down a new interpretation of the country's 1980 Marriage Law that critics say radically changes the way that women (and some men) will be treated in divorce. The Court ruled that title to a marital home purchased before the marriage should revert to the buyer, regardless of whether the home was bought outright or on mortgage.

This interpretation of China's family law could have a serious impact on marriages throughout China. In most cases, the spouse who will now have no rights to the marital home will be the wife because of massive social pressure for men to buy homes and for women not to. In Chinese society, men are traditionally provide a home for their wives, often purchasing them well in advance of marriage in order to improve their prospects. In the event of divorce, many women will no longer have any right to the divided value of the marital home -- which is especially significant considering the skyrocketing property values currently taking place throughout China.

Upon hearing of the new ruling, many families immediately took steps to put the other spouse's name on the deed. However, friction has formed in some unions when men have balked at doing so. Chinese news outlets have already reported breakdowns in marriages because of the court's ruling.

Commentators in China have accused the Court of taking China a step backwards. Feminists argue that the new ruling does not take into account women's weaker position in society and fails to take into account women's non-monetary contributions to the household such as childbirth, childcare and other domestic activities. Others say the ruling amounts "to the construction of individual, capitalist-style property law in the heart of China's families."

Proponents of the new interpretation of the law say that the ruling actually serves to protect the traditional family. They point out that many families purchase homes or apartments for their sons to assist them in attracting a wife. They believe the ruling will protect the family's investment in the marriage.

Before this ruling, the marital home in China was considered joint property subject to division upon divorce.

In New Jersey, marital property is divided using the rule of "equitable division," which means that is not automatically split 50-50, but is divided equitably in light of the particular circumstances of the divorcing couple.
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Re: China's Unmarried "Leftover Women"

Postby Yohan » Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:54 pm

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/08/world/asia/08iht-letter08.html?_r=0

Equality, but only when it fits me - this does not work in China anymore - a good decision by the Supreme Court of the PRC.

This is good news for a foreign man, who marries a Chinese woman and wants to buy a condominium - you can do that as a foreign man, and if done before marriage and registered with the foreigner's name only, it will belong to him - single or married/divorced with a Chinese woman will not change his rights to his property in future.

BTW, the law is gender neutral. If a Chinese left-over woman provides a home for a nice man, it will also belong to HER only and never to him after divorce. I see no problem with this new law.

Chinese Law Could Make Divorced Women Homeless

BEIJING — Millions of Chinese women, and some men, woke on Aug. 13 to discover their spouse had, in effect, become their landlord.

On that day, the Supreme Court’s new interpretation of the 1980 Marriage Law came into force, stipulating that property bought before marriage, either outright or on mortgage, reverted to the buyer on divorce. Previously, the family home had been considered joint property. Experts agree the change would mostly affect women, since men traditionally provide the family home.

The result has been uproar — and, in the cities, a rush to add the wife’s name to title deeds.

Some husbands have agreed to this, but others have balked, and Chinese news outlets have already reported on marriage breakdowns caused by a husband’s refusal to add his wife’s name.

Marriage law experts and feminists are asking: Did China just take a great leap backward?

“Feudal society is back again. How many hundreds of years will it take before women are free again?” ran a typically angry post by a person called Jingmochengzhu on Sina Weibo, China’s biggest microblog, one of 1.4 million on the topic.

“The Supreme Court is under suspicion of overstepping its authority,” Ma Yinan, a Peking University law professor and deputy head of the Marriage and Family Law Institute under the China Law Society, told the newspaper Southern Weekend. Supporters were trying to justify the new rules as strengthening traditional family structures by preserving a family’s financial investment, he said.

“That’s feudalism,” Mr. Ma said. “We smashed that already. Broke it. For them to advocate traditional family structures is a joke!”

The new rules hollow out the very basis of marriage, said Zhao Xiaoli, a law professor at Tsinghua University in Beijing.

“Interpretation Three basically amounts to the construction of individual, capitalist-style property law in the heart of China’s families,” Mr. Zhao said.

A person using the tag Zhang Lei CNY posted on Sina: “Since the new marriage law came out, the equilibrium has been shattered in countless families. This stone has caused more than a thousand waves.”

The government says that in an era of soaring property prices — up about 500 percent since 2000, according to the National Bureau of Statistics — the law must protect a family’s investment. Parents and other relatives often contribute money to buy an apartment for their son, in order to help him attract a wife.

The law does not specify gender, so a woman who bought an apartment would also get it back at divorce. Yet social scientists say far fewer women buy family homes.

The interpretation is intended to address an immediate problem, and not build a perfect, logical system, a senior Supreme Court official, Du Wanhua, told legal experts last year, Southern Weekend reported in a recent article, “The Behind-the-Scenes Struggle of the New Marriage Law.”

But marriage law specialists said court officials ignored their opinions, listening instead to property law specialists.

During the consultation process, Chen Wei of the Southwest University of Political Science and Law in Chongqing tried, but failed, to get a provision that would have excluded a family’s shared primary residence from the new rules, Southern Weekend reported.

“How can the home where you live together become just one person’s property?” Li Mingshun, deputy dean of China Women’s University in Beijing, asked in the online publication Women’s Voice.

The new rules ignore a woman’s unpaid contributions to the home, including childbirth, child rearing, housework and caring for elderly family members, Li Ying, deputy director of the Beijing Qianqian Law Firm, said in Women’s Voice.

The new legal interpretation “keeps stressing ‘fairness, fairness,’ but it doesn’t consider a woman’s weaker position,” said Ms. Li. “It doesn’t recognize at all the value of work done at home.”

In her dissertation, “Brides, Billionaires and Buildings: The Gendering of Real Estate in Postsocialist China,” Leta Hong Fincher, a doctoral candidate at Tsinghua University, explores what she says is “a dramatic widening of China’s gender inequality in wealth as a result of skyrocketing real estate prices in recent years.”

Because of deeply held traditional beliefs that men must be the homeowners and heads of the household, women rarely purchase homes. Their parents may even advise against it. With recent “massive” rises in property values, Ms. Fincher said, this was worsening inequality.

The new rules could put women off marriage, she predicted.

Divorce rates, meanwhile, are rising — 2.7 million couples, or 8.5 percent more than in 2009, split last year, government figures showed. That was a key factor behind the change, with more families afraid of losing their investment, experts said.

Yang Lixin, a law professor at Renmin University in Beijing whose views, marriage specialists said, had influenced the government, defended it in Southern Weekend. Marriage laws should not provide exceptions to the civil code, Mr. Yang said.

Under property law, property belongs to the person who bought it, so “of course it belongs to the individual and isn’t shared!” he said.

Yet China’s Marriage Law has long occupied a special place in the nation’s psyche.

The New Marriage Law of 1950 — the first law passed by the Communists after they seized power in 1949 — outlawed arranged marriages and concubines, and enabled women to divorce their husbands. To this day it remains a symbol of the Communists’ commitment to women’s rights, a process that began under the preceding Nationalist government.

For Mr. Yang, this is an outdated approach.

“Making an exception of marriage law is something invented by the Soviet Union, it’s an ideological outcome,” he said. “Lenin didn’t get everything right.”

Others see a long-overdue wake-up call for Chinese women: Don’t expect a man to provide for you.

“Men have always provided the marriage home, so women’s rights have been hurt,” the author and columnist Zhao Geyu wrote in an essay circulating widely online.

“But there’s no point being resentful or complaining. Look instead to how you can change your own attitude,” she advised.

Or as Zhang Lei CNY posted on Sina Weibo: “Women, work hard, earn money and buy your own home. After this, a man is as insubstantial as a cloud.”

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Re: China's Unmarried "Leftover Women"

Postby Ghost » Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:08 am

BTW, the law is gender neutral. If a Chinese left-over woman provides a home for a nice man, it will also belong to HER only and never to him after divorce. I see no problem with this new law.


Equality, just like the dearies always wanted!

China really is one of the few holdouts remaining, and with laws such as this it shows it to the world.

Now, all it needs to do is hunt down and slaughter feminists openly and it will have taken another huge step. Show no tolerance to that wickedness.
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Re: China's Unmarried "Leftover Women"

Postby Winston » Sun Dec 20, 2015 7:40 am

Wow check out this clip from Oprah Winfrey Network about a Chinese mistress girl in Shenzhen. She is pretty attractive and humble and receives allowance and rent from her Hong Kong sugar daddy. I wonder why I couldn't find a girl like that in Shenzhen.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ha0KNNIh67c[/youtube]

Also, there are a number of news videos about "leftover women" in China. See a list of them below:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=leftover+women+china

As you can see, most of these "leftover" women in China are attractive and good looking, but they are picky. They don't want just any good decent man who will love them and make a good husband. They want a guy who is handsome, fit, tall, and has a good income too. So it's not true that they can't find anyone. They just have high standards that they refuse to compromise on.
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Re: China's Unmarried "Leftover Women"

Postby Ghost » Sun Dec 20, 2015 12:29 pm

As you can see, most of these "leftover" women in China are attractive and good looking, but they are picky. They don't want just any good decent man who will love them and make a good husband. They want a guy who is handsome, fit, tall, and has a good income too. So it's not true that they can't find anyone. They just have high standards that they refuse to compromise on.


That's a dangerous game to play in China. Even in the West, as many old hags are ending up with cats and dildos. Attractive women are tragic.
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