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These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.

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These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby publicduende » Wed Jan 21, 2015 8:12 pm

Please do yourself a favour and read the story below. There is a lot we don't know, a lot we can't imagine, and a lot we take for granted as we walk into our exotic paradise full of sweet girls, many of whom only have hope to hold on to.

http://myndconsulting.com/mynds-story/
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby Ghost » Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:40 pm

Wow, incredibly feminist. It's always all about the women, although she mentions men ever so slightly. Men taken advantage of while working overseas, or men being trafficked? That takes a backseat or gets ignored when even one woman is at risk. And she is only able to be an "empowered" woman by piggybacking off of other societies. She'd make a great AW. And the story - I'm not saying fabricated - but seems a bit off. You know why she likes those jobs in the Philippines and not abroad? It makes it easier for her to exploit her own women. Types like this are really concerned about women; they just want to exploit them instead of someone else.

The Philippines could "empower" its men, and then women wouldn't even have to work outside the home. Or...I'd like to say that, but the third world is the third world for a reason. Filipinas don't like their men. I don't either. Actually, nobody really does. They are almost always lazy and rotten. And they will throw away money on drinking and gambling even if their family is desperately poor. I get that.

But this is not the way. One could say that this is not to misandry yet, but it's only a hair removed from that. But such efforts to feminize the Philippines will fail since it is third world - men have to give power to feminism and misandry after all, but the Filipino men would never do it. So stories like this will matter to Western feminists, but that's as far as it will go.
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby publicduende » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:47 pm

Ghost, cool down mate. If your reasoning is a hammer, it doesn't mean all you read and see is a nail.

Where is the pro-feminist agenda in such a sad, sobering and ultimately inspiring story? Assuming every detail is true (and why should we doubt, as we have certainly heard of worse horrors), what is Myrna's story telling you, other than the uplifting power of hope against all odds, optimism and belief in the mankind's good nature? There's no mention about evil men vs female victims, in fact it is clearly stated that her "recruiter" was a woman. It is a fact that, especially 10 or 20 years ago, the conditions of Filipina workers in the Chinese households of Singapore and Hong Kong were virtually akin to slavery, with continuous psychological, physical and sometimes sexual abuse, all for a meager salary. Things have probably improved for Filipinas but when I was in Singapore I would often hear similar stories about those who replaced Pinay maids at the bottom of the pecking order, that maids from Indonesia, Myanmar or Cambodia.

That the Philippines might, or will, never allow feminism to grab the power is a preposterous argument, since the Western concept of feminism cannot apply in a country where women have always at the forefront of every political and social event, are well represented everywhere in number even higher than most first-world countries. The Philippines are not a feminism society and never will be, and that's because they have always been a matriarchal society. That doesn't mean most Filipino men are fat lazy slobs whose only interests are in gambling and drinking. Those men exist in every country, including the US (where they weigh even more on their host society, as they tend to sit on the welfare system that the PI don't have).

You have been twisted and bent by a single negative experience in the Philippines - a single less than decent girl (and her family) you hooked up with and gave your trust to. It's little, way too little statistical sample to generalise.
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby Ghost » Fri Jan 23, 2015 1:19 am

It's like I said, she just wants the power (and profits) from exploiting those women with her company rather than have the exploitation be done in other countries. She doesn't really care about them, though it makes for good PR.

Philippines is kind-of-sort-of feminist. It isn't misandrist so much, and of course it doesn't have the daddygov that is powerful and well-organized enough to provide a safety net, nor does it have the wealth to. When I was there, I saw a commercial on TV often - a commercial in which a single mom is "up to the challenge" or something like that. I know it has had at least one female leader, which is strange because such a thing seems to be more common than in overtly feminist/misandrist countries such as the U.S. Of course, no female is ever really a leader since they are totally reliant upon men for guidance and direction.

I'm over my bad experience in the Philippines. I'll probably even go back. I do generalize because generalizations are useful and are generally factual - there is always room for individual exceptions. So when I say most Filipinos are lazy, it's because I saw so much of that. Lying, ditto. I could generalize about American behavior as well and I do - or for any group that I have experience with.
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby publicduende » Fri Jan 23, 2015 3:50 pm

Ghost wrote:It's like I said, she just wants the power (and profits) from exploiting those women with her company rather than have the exploitation be done in other countries. She doesn't really care about them, though it makes for good PR.

Philippines is kind-of-sort-of feminist. It isn't misandrist so much, and of course it doesn't have the daddygov that is powerful and well-organized enough to provide a safety net, nor does it have the wealth to. When I was there, I saw a commercial on TV often - a commercial in which a single mom is "up to the challenge" or something like that. I know it has had at least one female leader, which is strange because such a thing seems to be more common than in overtly feminist/misandrist countries such as the U.S. Of course, no female is ever really a leader since they are totally reliant upon men for guidance and direction.

I'm over my bad experience in the Philippines. I'll probably even go back. I do generalize because generalizations are useful and are generally factual - there is always room for individual exceptions. So when I say most Filipinos are lazy, it's because I saw so much of that. Lying, ditto. I could generalize about American behavior as well and I do - or for any group that I have experience with.


In what way is she exploiting those women? She runs a (pretty successful, from what I can see) IT consultancy and works on all sorts of projects. Helping vulnerable OFWs is a side project for her - she might get some publicity, sure, but I don't see the profit. You really have a cynical mind to read "evil feminism" everywhere.

Iconic commercial or not, if a woman works hard and achieves something in life, she deserves to be proud of it just as much as her male counterparts. Not more, maybe, but just as much. It is just your idea (and Cornfed's and a few else's) that female leaders can only stand in the shadow of a senior or peer male figure. It's bollocks, and surely more so in the Philippines, one of the few countries of the world where women are powerbrokers alongside men and men have no problems accepting that.

I can only hope you'll go back to the Philippines and find some peace. I can only hope getting laid and loved by a decent young Pinay will bend you back in shape and soothe some of your existential pain.
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby Ghost » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:21 pm

Female leaders aren't really leaders, though. They are always beholden to men. Even male leaders are beholden to other men as well; so much more so for female "leaders."

No woman should be proud of being a single mom. Just becoming that is inherent failure. The first world countries desire that and become third world; third world countries that desire that will remain hopelessly third world. Women in the Philippines may seem to be "powerful," but it is just the men don't care and let the women do the work. In some sense, they are smart. So the country will never break out of its third-world-ness. The Philippine women could unite and try to enforce feminist legislation but it would never work because the men would never do it. Child support? Alimony? "We don't have any money and we don't want to do that so we won't." For anything women want to do to happen, men have to agree to it.
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby publicduende » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:48 pm

Ghost wrote:Female leaders aren't really leaders, though. They are always beholden to men. Even male leaders are beholden to other men as well; so much more so for female "leaders."


Where did you get this pseudo-fact? If you mean in a metaphorical sense, this is akin to saying that every leader is responding to the instructions, agendas and interests of another leading person, who can in turn be a man or a woman.

Ghost wrote:No woman should be proud of being a single mom. Just becoming that is inherent failure. The first world countries desire that and become third world; third world countries that desire that will remain hopelessly third world. Women in the Philippines may seem to be "powerful," but it is just the men don't care and let the women do the work. In some sense, they are smart. So the country will never break out of its third-world-ness. The Philippine women could unite and try to enforce feminist legislation but it would never work because the men would never do it. Child support? Alimony? "We don't have any money and we don't want to do that so we won't." For anything women want to do to happen, men have to agree to it.


I don't really believe the descent of the "civilised" West and the utter failure of Anglo-american capitalism and the ascent of emerging countries (like the PI) and their social models have much to do with feminism. Whether Filipino power brokers are there for merit, birth right (let's not forget many of them are daughters, wives or even lovers of male power brokers) or laissez-faire from their male counterparts, they still have to do the job once they take that seat. And it's a well known fact that Filipino women in power can hold it on their own.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/01/13/the-three-countries-where-your-boss-is-more-likely-to-be-a-woman
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby Ghost » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:31 am

I don't really believe the descent of the "civilised" West and the utter failure of Anglo-american capitalism and the ascent of emerging countries (like the PI) and their social models have much to do with feminism. Whether Filipino power brokers are there for merit, birth right (let's not forget many of them are daughters, wives or even lovers of male power brokers) or laissez-faire from their male counterparts, they still have to do the job once they take that seat. And it's a well known fact that Filipino women in power can hold it on their own.


I rest my case.

And they have to "do the job." And we all know how well Flips "do the job..." :lol:
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby publicduende » Sat Jan 24, 2015 1:58 am

Ghost wrote:And we all know how well Flips "do the job..." :lol:


If that's the case, then you could say men and women are equally bad (or good)...
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby Ghost » Sat Jan 24, 2015 2:39 am

Yeah, they both suck.
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby publicduende » Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:52 am

Ghost wrote:Yeah, they both suck.


I really hope you won't feel so butthurt if in, say, 20 years the Philippines will be an ultramodern, progressive Asian Tiger and the US a rusting leviahan sinking under tens of trillions of debt.
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby starchild5 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:34 am

Ghost...Philippines is the least Feminist country on Earth and some of the Filipinas genuinely suffer. It has nothing to do with feminism but the genuine struggle of humanity both male and female.

You know India was the number 1 call center BPO destination in the world few years back, before Philippines took it from us. When I first came to Philippines around 2006 and met few BPO workers, I was amazed at the English they spoke plus the genuine customer care DNA they seem to be had :) ...I knew back then India's days as a BPO leader are numbered and in few years Philippines became the number 1 country in BPO in the world.

Some women have immensely benefited from BPOs. Single Mom's have a future now. Many Filipinos play boys and Koreans...just knock filipina out and run away...She has to take care of her kids and BPO is the way out...

I can never support some of things we men do to Filipinas....BPO has given real hope to millions of women..who would otherwise, just work in bars or as maids...There talent is now coming to the world and being appreciated.

Atleast, there is a dignity, even though the payscale is not as high but still a better life in Philippines than in Hong kong, Arabia as a maid.
Last edited by starchild5 on Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby starchild5 » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:43 am

publicduende wrote:Please do yourself a favour and read the story below. There is a lot we don't know, a lot we can't imagine, and a lot we take for granted as we walk into our exotic paradise full of sweet girls, many of whom only have hope to hold on to.

http://myndconsulting.com/mynds-story/


Its an Amazing story. Having worked myself in BPO in India and Philippines over taking us with their talent. I know inside out, how they beat the rest of the world. Their talent is now coming to use, where they are really good at..customer care.

Even at being a maid they are number 1 in the world...Even Illuminati Elites like Queen of england and Saudi King employed Filipina maids. Most of the billionaires in China have Filipina maid due to their english speaking skills and how they are seen as a prized catch in China.

I don't see this as a feminist story but rather the struggle of good women in the world against the odds of what we men also grind through. The least feminist women by far are the Filipinas. I don't know how we can ever judge this a feminist story.

I have lost count with the number of filipinas i met and even the gold diggers were the least feminist. :D

Even I had bad experiences in Philippines..but Ghost seems to have taken it personally and seems to go against Filipina women with a personal vendetta :) in all news stories,.

I really hope ghost goes to Philippines again and meet nice women...There are many...Its just numbers...that he encountered the bad ones...
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby Ghost » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:26 am

publicduende wrote:
Ghost wrote:Yeah, they both suck.


I really hope you won't feel so butthurt if in, say, 20 years the Philippines will be an ultramodern, progressive Asian Tiger and the US a rusting leviahan sinking under tens of trillions of debt.


It may become a third world country with lots of meca-corp activity and capital, but it will still be a third world country. You clearly don't understand how third world countries work. Without the virtue of trust, which third world countries lack, any progress or development will come from outside and be superficial. The U.S. is already like that, just hasn't descended into a third world country yet. No doubt it is coming. Same deal - the U.S. is in transformation from a high trust society to a post-trust society. When that breaks down it doesn't get repaired so easily.
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby Taco » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:31 am

There might be other cultural reasons why Filipinas are preferred as managers. When Filipino guys feel disrespected they have a tendency to go home get their gun and bust a cap in someone's ass, something I've actually witnessed. Having to fire a Filipino manager could be very hazardous.
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