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These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.

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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby newlifeinphilippines » Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:36 am

Taco wrote:There might be other cultural reasons why Filipinas are preferred as managers. When Filipino guys feel disrespected they have a tendency to go home get their gun and bust a cap in someone's a**, something I've actually witnessed. Having to fire a Filipino manager could be very hazardous.


yes a well known cebu expat who even helped during yolanda got executed by a security guard who was fired for showing up drunk.
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby Jester » Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:35 pm

Ghost wrote:
Without the virtue of trust, which third world countries lack, any progress or development will come from outside and be superficial.



Interesting.

I guess it is not so much about "goodness", but rather, "honor" or "reliability".

Traits shared by Northern Europeans and by Japanese.

Interesting.
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby publicduende » Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:43 pm

Ghost wrote:
publicduende wrote:I really hope you won't feel so butthurt if in, say, 20 years the Philippines will be an ultramodern, progressive Asian Tiger and the US a rusting leviahan sinking under tens of trillions of debt.


It may become a third world country with lots of meca-corp activity and capital, but it will still be a third world country. You clearly don't understand how third world countries work. Without the virtue of trust, which third world countries lack, any progress or development will come from outside and be superficial. The U.S. is already like that, just hasn't descended into a third world country yet. No doubt it is coming. Same deal - the U.S. is in transformation from a high trust society to a post-trust society. When that breaks down it doesn't get repaired so easily.


I don't know about you, but given a third-world country trending up and a third-world country trending down, I'd rather live in the former.
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby publicduende » Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:45 pm

Taco wrote:There might be other cultural reasons why Filipinas are preferred as managers. When Filipino guys feel disrespected they have a tendency to go home get their gun and bust a cap in someone's a**, something I've actually witnessed. Having to fire a Filipino manager could be very hazardous.


LOL, as if we've never heard of American disgruntled ex-employees who pay one last visit to their offices with a loaded rifle... Come on...
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby Yohan » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:16 pm

publicduende wrote:Please do yourself a favour and read the story below. There is a lot we don't know, a lot we can't imagine, and a lot we take for granted as we walk into our exotic paradise full of sweet girls, many of whom only have hope to hold on to.

http://myndconsulting.com/mynds-story/


All what I read here is the usual tearful feminist story about how poor women are etc. etc.

There are not only Filipina women working overseas, there are also Filipino men and their working conditions are often really bad - much worse and more dangerous than those of women. Working in construction and working on ships etc.

And some overseas work which is even not done by Filipino because they refuse, is given to male workers from Bangladesh or India. - However nobody says a word about that...

About human trafficking it should be noticed that more men and boys than women and girls are victims worldwide. It's not about sexual favors, but about forced labor under terrible conditions.

Not all Filipinas are working somewhere in Saudi Arabia as maids. Not all Filipinas are suffering while doing overseas work. Not all are sexually misused females and victims of human trafficking. And not all are separated from their families, as there are also couples trying together to work overseas.

Some are trying to study hard and improve their working conditions while being overseas, some are able to immigrate to their guest country, some are able to save money and to send home a lot of cash and materials.

Working conditions for our Filipina office maid are far away from being bad here in Tokyo. About USD 2000,- per month, airticket paid for 1 month vacation, nice room with kitchen and toilet/shower for free, full Japanese insurance cover. Not only does she work with us since over 25 years, but also this year she will retire and bring her daughter to take over her job. Even inviting our staff to visit her house in the Philippines and some did already that trip to meet her there during her vacation.

Why always to point out some negative aspects and remain silent on overseas workers who enjoy their stay outside of Philippines?

About poverty, let me say, Philippines is not the poorest country in this world. Overseas workers from Indonesia and Bangladesh, both men and women, are facing a lower living standard in their countries.

I am also sick about all these stories about abusive foreign men. There are foreigners who are supportive to poor Philippine people.
Who writes about them?
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby publicduende » Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:47 pm

Yohan wrote:
publicduende wrote:Please do yourself a favour and read the story below. There is a lot we don't know, a lot we can't imagine, and a lot we take for granted as we walk into our exotic paradise full of sweet girls, many of whom only have hope to hold on to.

http://myndconsulting.com/mynds-story/


All what I read here is the usual tearful feminist story about how poor women are etc. etc.

There are not only Filipina women working overseas, there are also Filipino men and their working conditions are often really bad - much worse and more dangerous than those of women. Working in construction and working on ships etc.

And some overseas work which is even not done by Filipino because they refuse, is given to male workers from Bangladesh or India. - However nobody says a word about that...

About human trafficking it should be noticed that more men and boys than women and girls are victims worldwide. It's not about sexual favors, but about forced labor under terrible conditions.

Not all Filipinas are working somewhere in Saudi Arabia as maids. Not all Filipinas are suffering while doing overseas work. Not all are sexually misused females and victims of human trafficking. And not all are separated from their families, as there are also couples trying together to work overseas.

Some are trying to study hard and improve their working conditions while being overseas, some are able to immigrate to their guest country, some are able to save money and to send home a lot of cash and materials.

Working conditions for our Filipina office maid are far away from being bad here in Tokyo. About USD 2000,- per month, airticket paid for 1 month vacation, nice room with kitchen and toilet/shower for free, full Japanese insurance cover. Not only does she work with us since over 25 years, but also this year she will retire and bring her daughter to take over her job. Even inviting our staff to visit her house in the Philippines and some did already that trip to meet her there during her vacation.

Why always to point out some negative aspects and remain silent on overseas workers who enjoy their stay outside of Philippines?

About poverty, let me say, Philippines is not the poorest country in this world. Overseas workers from Indonesia and Bangladesh, both men and women, are facing a lower living standard in their countries.

I am also sick about all these stories about abusive foreign men. There are foreigners who are supportive to poor Philippine people.
Who writes about them?


Fair point, but your argument is similar to those who dismiss animalists saying there are better and more pressing causes than protecting animals from abuse. As long as they're helping and devoting their spare time and resources, I say everybody has a right to dedicate themselves to their cause of choice, no matter how it fares on anybody else's hypothetical priority list.

Of course not all OFWs are treated badly, abused or worse. And of course men are often exposed to similar abuse, if not worse. The point this woman is making is that this phenomenon still exists today as it existed 20 or 30 years ago, when she was a maid in Singapore, and any project trying to give those women (as many or as few they might be) a chance to feel better or even solve their problems, is something laudable per se. That one Filipina wants to help people who are going through the same ordeal she had to go through when younger doesn't make similar efforts less worthy and less important. As Tesco's slogan recites, "every little helps".
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby Yohan » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:23 pm

Ghost wrote:Wow, incredibly feminist. It's always all about the women, although she mentions men ever so slightly. Men taken advantage of while working overseas, or men being trafficked? That takes a backseat or gets ignored when even one woman is at risk. And she is only able to be an "empowered" woman by piggybacking off of other societies. She'd make a great AW. And the story - I'm not saying fabricated - but seems a bit off.You know why she likes those jobs in the Philippines and not abroad? It makes it easier for her to exploit her own women. Types like this are really concerned about women; they just want to exploit them instead of someone else.
.....
So stories like this will matter to Western feminists, but that's as far as it will go.


The story and the homepage are telling me a lot. A case of megalomania, if you ask me.

I am a 53 year-old woman weaving the web. My advocacy is to empower millions of the most vulnerable women among us to join in the world’s fight against human trafficking and modern day human slavery.


The typical feminist way of life of a poor crybaby, but powerful independent woman and similar BS.

She is claiming to be a victim of human trafficking, but reading her story, I fail to see when and where. She was always able just to walk away.

Without getting into details, I eventually found myself in a failed marriage to a good man. We were both victims of our traditions and I suffered from the violence imposed on an independent woman who never learned her place. From that marriage, I was blessed with two beautiful baby girls...


Of course without getting into details, and I wonder who did the job bringing up these girls while she was working abroad.

http://myndconsulting.com/

This homepage looks similar to a fake-charity, full of remarks about poor girls, created by a very egoistic woman who is into self-pity mood.

The homepage does not show anything about a productive company, no company profile, no registration no. or operating permit.
Just nothing - the typical 'introduction' or 'consulting' company with a table and a phone...

About her story, very much does not fit together or is grossly exaggerated.

I am visiting Philippines since 1975, I have a Filipina fosterdaughter from a rural poverty region in Eastern Mindanao who is now 19 and I take care of her since 2005. - Her story about the poorest of the poor is quite different compared to the story of this woman.

My Filipina fosterdaughter is an unwanted child (no.5), birth never registered, badly mistreated and finally very sick, with serious signs of malnutrition, she was abandoned by her violent parents, both alcoholics.

This woman who calls herself Myrna says, she is from a place in Bohol, near Loboc - not such a bad place. A peaceful place where parents in general care about their children. The cousine of my fosterdaughter is from Bohol too, from Loon, not far away, the typical little city with little income. I know Bohol and Cebu and Leyte very well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loon,_Bohol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loboc,_Bohol

It seems the parents of Myrna were nice to their children, sharing whatever they could do.
Somewhat strange that she does not mention anything about her parents and her other sisters, how did they survive?

For sure many children in Philippines - even today - are much worse off than this woman ever has been in her life.
Her story is inconsistent.

I had never graduated high school
...
given their lives new meaning that goes beyond the floors they mop or the toilets they clean.


What kind of work do you expect to do as a maid?
Last edited by Yohan on Sat Jan 24, 2015 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby OutWest » Sat Jan 24, 2015 5:45 pm

Jester wrote:
Ghost wrote:
Without the virtue of trust, which third world countries lack, any progress or development will come from outside and be superficial.



Interesting.

I guess it is not so much about "goodness", but rather, "honor" or "reliability".

Traits shared by Northern Europeans and by Japanese.

Interesting.



The Trust level within a culture is a huge factor. It is the required conduit for exchanges. Do postal employees routinely steal the mail? Do taxis routinely rip you off?
If these two factors alone were charted around the world, their correlation with economic prospects is likely quite high. It is near absolute in my experience& more than 60 countries and counting...
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby publicduende » Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:45 pm

OutWest wrote:
Jester wrote:
Ghost wrote:
Without the virtue of trust, which third world countries lack, any progress or development will come from outside and be superficial.



Interesting.

I guess it is not so much about "goodness", but rather, "honor" or "reliability".

Traits shared by Northern Europeans and by Japanese.

Interesting.



The Trust level within a culture is a huge factor. It is the required conduit for exchanges. Do postal employees routinely steal the mail? Do taxis routinely rip you off?
If these two factors alone were charted around the world, their correlation with economic prospects is likely quite high. It is near absolute in my experience& more than 60 countries and counting...


I see the value of trust informing prosperity at the micro (local community, family) level alone. Socio-economic prosperity of an entire nation is probably defined by a much smaller number of power brokers sitting in the upper echelons of politics, finance and industry, media etc.
It would not be otherwise explained why so many country where trust ranks so high in the scale of social values, like the aforementioned US and Japan, are in vertical decline on so many counts.

Trust is good, but more importantly it's about trusting the right people and the right causes.
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby publicduende » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:06 pm

Yohan, it beggars belief that such a mature and experienced man with many years of pan-Asian living under his belt, as you, cannot feel a grain of empathy towards people and stories you must have heard about millions of times, and know are hardly exaggerations.

Whatever her writing style (which is typical of much of the lesser Filipino press, as you probably know), Myrna has a life story that talks about poverty, loneliness, struggle and a modest share of personal/entrepreneurial success. What's so unbelievable about her story? What's so pompous and empathic about her achievements?

Even if it was just for the purpose of melting hearts and attracting foreign clients to her business, what's inherently wrong for a brand to give itself a "human touch" by sharing his founder's early life story?
I just can't understand why some of you immediately read and smell "evil feminism" in any story that portrays a woman as a veritable source of inspiration, and curl up their sense of judgment like a hedgehog in fear.

What's inspiring about Myrna's story isn't Myrna. It's the fact that it could have been any young Filipino, boy or girl, from a poor family, in the 60s and 70s. Such a shame, in fact, that such stories still happen now, anywhere in the world.

The cynicism perma-goggles on some of you guys are just amazing...

I don't think the place matters much. Perhaps the Bohol of today is more modern and prosperous than the Bohol of the 60s? Would you concede that?


Yohan wrote:
Ghost wrote:Wow, incredibly feminist. It's always all about the women, although she mentions men ever so slightly. Men taken advantage of while working overseas, or men being trafficked? That takes a backseat or gets ignored when even one woman is at risk. And she is only able to be an "empowered" woman by piggybacking off of other societies. She'd make a great AW. And the story - I'm not saying fabricated - but seems a bit off.You know why she likes those jobs in the Philippines and not abroad? It makes it easier for her to exploit her own women. Types like this are really concerned about women; they just want to exploit them instead of someone else.
.....
So stories like this will matter to Western feminists, but that's as far as it will go.


The story and the homepage are telling me a lot. A case of megalomania, if you ask me.

I am a 53 year-old woman weaving the web. My advocacy is to empower millions of the most vulnerable women among us to join in the world’s fight against human trafficking and modern day human slavery.


The typical feminist way of life of a poor crybaby, but powerful independent woman and similar BS.

She is claiming to be a victim of human trafficking, but reading her story, I fail to see when and where. She was always able just to walk away.

Without getting into details, I eventually found myself in a failed marriage to a good man. We were both victims of our traditions and I suffered from the violence imposed on an independent woman who never learned her place. From that marriage, I was blessed with two beautiful baby girls...


Of course without getting into details, and I wonder who did the job bringing up these girls while she was working abroad.

http://myndconsulting.com/

This homepage looks similar to a fake-charity, full of remarks about poor girls, created by a very egoistic woman who is into self-pity mood.

The homepage does not show anything about a productive company, no company profile, no registration no. or operating permit.
Just nothing - the typical 'introduction' or 'consulting' company with a table and a phone...

About her story, very much does not fit together or is grossly exaggerated.

I am visiting Philippines since 1975, I have a Filipina fosterdaughter from a rural poverty region in Eastern Mindanao who is now 19 and I take care of her since 2005. - Her story about the poorest of the poor is quite different compared to the story of this woman.

My Filipina fosterdaughter is an unwanted child (no.5), birth never registered, badly mistreated and finally very sick, with serious signs of malnutrition, she was abandoned by her violent parents, both alcoholics.

This woman who calls herself Myrna says, she is from a place in Bohol, near Loboc - not such a bad place. A peaceful place where parents in general care about their children. The cousine of my fosterdaughter is from Bohol too, from Loon, not far away, the typical little city with little income. I know Bohol and Cebu and Leyte very well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loon,_Bohol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loboc,_Bohol

It seems the parents of Myrna were nice to their children, sharing whatever they could do.
Somewhat strange that she does not mention anything about her parents and her other sisters, how did they survive?

For sure many children in Philippines - even today - are much worse off than this woman ever has been in her life.
Her story is inconsistent.

I had never graduated high school
...
given their lives new meaning that goes beyond the floors they mop or the toilets they clean.


What kind of work do you expect to do as a maid?
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby Ghost » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:34 pm

publicduende wrote:
Ghost wrote:
publicduende wrote:I really hope you won't feel so butthurt if in, say, 20 years the Philippines will be an ultramodern, progressive Asian Tiger and the US a rusting leviahan sinking under tens of trillions of debt.


It may become a third world country with lots of meca-corp activity and capital, but it will still be a third world country. You clearly don't understand how third world countries work. Without the virtue of trust, which third world countries lack, any progress or development will come from outside and be superficial. The U.S. is already like that, just hasn't descended into a third world country yet. No doubt it is coming. Same deal - the U.S. is in transformation from a high trust society to a post-trust society. When that breaks down it doesn't get repaired so easily.


I don't know about you, but given a third-world country trending up and a third-world country trending down, I'd rather live in the former.


I'd rather live in a good society, but I have not yet found one worth calling good on earth. It's all just a matter of degree, but tending towards the bad side of things.

Philippines won't really transition up or down - foreign capital coming in is for corporations, tourists, etc. It's actually very similar to how the U.S. is a "rich country," but most of the people are struggling.
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby publicduende » Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:52 pm

Ghost wrote:I'd rather live in a good society, but I have not yet found one worth calling good on earth. It's all just a matter of degree, but tending towards the bad side of things.

Philippines won't really transition up or down - foreign capital coming in is for corporations, tourists, etc. It's actually very similar to how the U.S. is a "rich country," but most of the people are struggling.


Exactly. You haven't found your Utopia, so you have to compromise.
Philippines are trending up, even if the added prosperity will never cover the totality of the population. Not even Chinese super-centrally controlled economy managed to pull that miracle and, if it did for a few million workers, it did it at a horrific price: loss of social identity, unbridled pollution, balooning debt and corruption. Still, I wouldn't be surprised if Manila in 30 years will be as shiny as Singapore. Not for everyone, but many will fare better.
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby Ghost » Sat Jan 24, 2015 9:32 pm

Compromising is what got us here in the first place. Don't sound so gleeful about it.
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby Yohan » Sun Jan 25, 2015 12:08 pm

publicduende wrote:Yohan, it beggars belief that such a mature and experienced man with many years of pan-Asian living under his belt, as you, cannot feel a grain of empathy towards people and stories you must have heard about millions of times, and know are hardly exaggerations.
.....
I just can't understand why some of you immediately read and smell "evil feminism" in any story that portrays a woman as a veritable source of inspiration, and curl up their sense of judgment like a hedgehog in fear.
.....
I don't think the place matters much. Perhaps the Bohol of today is more modern and prosperous than the Bohol of the 60s? Would you concede that?


Such comments like this one above make me angry.

It is amazing how many Western male do-gooders believe every tearmaking story if it is presented by a female crybaby claiming abuse.

To call me a person who cannot feel a grain of empathy towards poor people in the Philippines is truly a personal insult against me, as I gave away out of my income and savings so far more than Euro 100.000,- as donation for poor people in Cebu/Bohol/Leyte during the last 10 years or so.

Further I pay the transportation charges for plenty of shipping boxes with collected materials like clothings, kitchenware, toys, stationary etc. what Japanese people next to me do not need anymore for distribution to poor Filipino people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balikbayan_box

-----

However I think, I have the right to check out what happens with my money I give away for the poor. - I never give any money to corrupt agencies and charities.

About 'evil feminism' in any story that portrays a woman - I always try to verify what a 'poor woman' while I am in Cebu is telling me. I never give money to poor people, who are liars and cheaters.

Every month I give away a considerably high part of my salary for poor people in the Philippines. What happened with my donations?
Well, I bought a tiny house (but has a land title) for a woman and her 2 children, after she lost her job, became seriously ill and lost everything she had during a flood in Cebu.

I also accepted the idea to look after a poor abandoned girl, who was suffering of malnutrition and mistreatment, basically all her expenses, everything from medical bills, food, clothings to school (now in university in Cebu) are paid by me since almost 10 years.

I also found out about her older sister, who is almost blind living in poverty and constructed a house for both of them. Finally I also accepted her cousine from Bohol, also a poor girl whose mother died and whose father is earning merely enough to take care of the younger son to live in the house with them.

I buy plenty of staple food (rice, canned food) and medicine (diabetes, tuberculosis etc) which I distribute every time when I am visiting Cebu to poor and sick people living next to the house of my Filipina fosterdaughter.

About Bohol and other places, I do not think it changed so much, there are still plenty of poor people everywhere living in a bamboo hut, no running water, no restroom, even no electricity. My fosterdaughter was born 1995, and her life was like that in Eastern Mindanao. It's not only about 1960 or 1970.

I do not expect any praise for what I am doing in Philippines from feminist-friendly do-gooders, but to say, I have no grain of empathy for the poor women in Philippines is derogatory - the majority of people who received anything from me during all these many years are indeed poor Filipina women of any age.
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Re: These are Women, and these are Filipinos

Postby publicduende » Sun Jan 25, 2015 7:23 pm

Yohan wrote:Such comments like this one above make me angry.

It is amazing how many Western male do-gooders believe every tearmaking story if it is presented by a female crybaby claiming abuse.

To call me a person who cannot feel a grain of empathy towards poor people in the Philippines is truly a personal insult against me, as I gave away out of my income and savings so far more than Euro 100.000,- as donation for poor people in Cebu/Bohol/Leyte during the last 10 years or so.

Further I pay the transportation charges for plenty of shipping boxes with collected materials like clothings, kitchenware, toys, stationary etc. what Japanese people next to me do not need anymore for distribution to poor Filipino people.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balikbayan_box

-----

However I think, I have the right to check out what happens with my money I give away for the poor. - I never give any money to corrupt agencies and charities.

About 'evil feminism' in any story that portrays a woman - I always try to verify what a 'poor woman' while I am in Cebu is telling me. I never give money to poor people, who are liars and cheaters.

Every month I give away a considerably high part of my salary for poor people in the Philippines. What happened with my donations?
Well, I bought a tiny house (but has a land title) for a woman and her 2 children, after she lost her job, became seriously ill and lost everything she had during a flood in Cebu.

I also accepted the idea to look after a poor abandoned girl, who was suffering of malnutrition and mistreatment, basically all her expenses, everything from medical bills, food, clothings to school (now in university in Cebu) are paid by me since almost 10 years.

I also found out about her older sister, who is almost blind living in poverty and constructed a house for both of them. Finally I also accepted her cousine from Bohol, also a poor girl whose mother died and whose father is earning merely enough to take care of the younger son to live in the house with them.

I buy plenty of staple food (rice, canned food) and medicine (diabetes, tuberculosis etc) which I distribute every time when I am visiting Cebu to poor and sick people living next to the house of my Filipina fosterdaughter.

About Bohol and other places, I do not think it changed so much, there are still plenty of poor people everywhere living in a bamboo hut, no running water, no restroom, even no electricity. My fosterdaughter was born 1995, and her life was like that in Eastern Mindanao. It's not only about 1960 or 1970.

I do not expect any praise for what I am doing in Philippines from feminist-friendly do-gooders, but to say, I have no grain of empathy for the poor women in Philippines is derogatory - the majority of people who received anything from me during all these many years are indeed poor Filipina women of any age.


Cynicism and mistrust always are double-edged swords. You have a right to consider that woman's story a self-aggrandising piece of BS, even if - as you say - you know plenty of similar stories happening in those provinces in the 60s and 70s, and even to date. By the same token, I could consider all you wrote abnve a fruit of your fantasies. Or perhaps let the crueller stereotypes run wild and reach an even more disturbing conclusion.

Or we can just remind ourselves that we are all human beings after all, men and women, Western and Asians, and all equally capable of feeling compassion, generosity and dedication. This, especially when we have lived that suffering and hardship on our skin (as this particular woman is telling us).

You told us on many occasions about your Filipina foster daughter and the way you and your family have been taking care of her. That is a very laudable thing and attracts my utmost respect. That you have been helping even more poor people in the Philippines shows your commitment even more.

What raises a red flag, with me personally at least - and by now I know I am a minority in this forum community - is that you are not prepared to concede that a woman is stepping in and helping her fellow citizens, or a specific category of women, using her own company and her own social media weight. If it's you who do good to poor Filipinos, it's all sacrosanct and you deserve (due)) praise. If it's a woman, a Filipino woman nonetheless, who does it and uses her own life story to add dramatic power to her cause, that's just the act of a "female crybaby claiming abuse".

This is where I see the partiality, or even the immaturity, on your side. OK, you have had more than a chance to show your kindness and generosity, but do you really think you (or males alone) have a monopoly of that kindness and generosity?
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