Working condition in Asia?

[chanta76]

Im not talking about ESL teachers I'm talking about people that have regular jobs in Asia. Anyway , my wife told me that in South Korea or pretty much most of Asia the working conditions in companies are pretty cut throat . According to her USA is bit better because at least in the states there is more workers rights . In other words you can sue the company or complain about the company if they screw you over. At the same time because there are more women in the work force in USA it adds a different viewpoint where as most of Asia is still very much male dominate .

(Something telling me Traveler might say something negative here.)
For example it's quite common if you want to get a deal done in Asia you would have to wine and dine your clients and really go all out. Not saying that this doesn't happen in the states but it's much more of a custom in Asia to do this. Also in Asia you have that kiss ass more in the company because of the hierarchy. I think this is very true. In Asia culture they look at status and there is more seniority in the culture compared to USA.
It makes me wonder if Asia is this paradise as people make it out to be.

I know most posters here work as ESL teacher so the dynamics maybe different compared to regular companies but like to see some people input.

[Traveler]

It makes me wonder if Asia is this paradise as people make it out to be.

Korea a paradise? LOL. You know what many Koreans have nicknamed their country? "Hell Chosun". Many Koreans would like to move abroad (according to surveys), and have a very low opinion of working conditions in their country. They work extremely long hours and are often expected to go out drinking and eating with their boss after work. Some may be lucky if they get home before midnight and hardly spend any time with their families. ESL teachers are lucky in that they tend to work more regular hours, but that is a dead end career for most.

[chanta76]

Traveler,

I knew you going to respond. I just knew it but if you can re-read my thread my focus was the whole of Asia. Wow...just wow your very bitter. Wonder if you have any friends. At the same time the expat community is growing in South Korea yes this includes western expats. The number of Koreans actually wanting to live abroad went down. I notice that here in NYC..there are less and less Korean trying to immigrate to the USA. Slowly the condition is changing..just like women rights it changing over there.


Regarding the work condition in Korea is tough but so is Japan . I don't know about China but I hear there is no worker rights in China so i assume it's bad there too. I don't know about the condition in the Philippines.

But according to this site you have expats who want to go to Asia. Me thinks it's only because of the Asian girls and nothing else. Again for this web-site you have guys complaining how cut throat or messed up America is. The point of my thread is that there is no perfect country.


The problem with ESL jobs is that it is limited unless you end up opening a school of your own or actually have a master degree in teaching which can help someone to teach in university setting. So my question is for guys who actually worked regular jobs in Asia..how much different is it compared to USA.

Again it seems like the only reason why guys want to go to Asia is because of the girls and nothing more...I think.

[cdnFA]

What he says is pretty much in line with everything I've read. Often as a foreigner you can escape most or even all of the suck but you even in non English teaching jobs face a pretty solid glass ceiling.

Japan, Korea and China are interesting places with their charms but unless you are on a serious expat package or you manage to find some seriously awesome niche area to exploit, it isn't the sort of place that sounds very livable if it were not for the girls, unless life in the west is a massive level of suck for you that is.
Of course some people take to a certain place like a duck to water. I know that if there was no chance with the women there I'd not bother even considering it for more than a year of adventure. Well that and my life is a pile of suck. However I am not some 20 something with a career to worry about. Teaching English for me would just be a path to a visa and a chance to meet people. However even without the employment and social situation. China is polluted as hell. All three places are crowded and have very difficult languages and not all that much English. Japan seems the most liveable of the three but also has the most difficult social scene. All three places, people report that it is extremely hard to make real friends among the locals.

As for the PI and Thailand, they seem brutally hot, polluted, corrupt, but at least it is cheap and you can get visaed without having to work if you are old enough.

Then you got the fuckery of dealing with 2 tax authorities, drivers licences, health insurance [6 month wait to get back on the provincial system, I knew a guy teaching in Thailand who took a bath because he was not allowed to sell his investments as a non resident. Airplane ticket, finding clothing that fits and other creature comforts, the food etc.

http://japaneseruleof7.com/japan-scam/

""Everyone who can leave Japan eventually does—-it’s a constant, like the speed of light. There’s an arc—-move to the country fresh-faced and exited, travel around taking pictures and trying to speak Japanese, then reach an apex where you realize why there’re so many stray catsJapan_Cats-JapaneseRuleof7, then begin the descent into Japanese marriage and a punishing job, or packing up and leaving.""

If my current situation doesn't work out I'll have to try somewhere else but the pluses and minuses are very much an apple and oranges/two hay stacks of equal distance away kind of thing. I really don't want to leave home.

[chanta76]

Cdnfa,

Well thats the point. Many posters here find fault with america. Mostly american women but also american culture.

My position is that even in asia its tough. There really is no perfect country outthere. I think guys with asian fetish would have the only reason why they would want to live in asia but beside that i dont see anything else.

[cdnFA]

Cdnfa,

Well thats the point. Many posters here find fault with america. Mostly american women but also american culture.

My position is that even in asia its tough. There really is no perfect country outthere. I think guys with asian fetish would have the only reason why they would want to live in asia but beside that i dont see anything else.

I don't disagree with you.

Although there are some people who just fit in better over there. One thing I've pointed out is that when you get right down to it, the only difference between there and here is that there your money and or race makes you the chad thundercock. People who complain about AW sluts and praise Oriental chicks and how easy they are to bang. It's pretty funny. They skip over the Korean Crazy, the Sexless Japanese, poor Chinese manginas holding their girlfriend's purse like a bitch and having them demand money being spent on them, the Philippine single mothers etc. But hey, it is all forgiven when you become the Chad. Granted being a foreigner/Chad you get to avoid a bit of the suck, at least until you get a wedding ring on her finger.

It reminds me of my personal definition of a slut. A girl who will sleep with anyone but you. I think with the HA and the general Manosphere crowd one gets a pretty bleak view of American life because these are the guys who failed. They are not among the 60 who got first time married and will stay married till death generally happily, they are not among those who do have an active dating life. They are the failures and the losers. Unlike myself who can admit to being a societal shitstain/systems bitch, most people can't handle that truth and desperately find anything to pin their failure on. No it's society, no it's the Space Alien Jews, no it's Justin Beiber, everyone is going through what I do, those 20% who don't are the Chads. It makes things much easier to deal with.
If you were to ask my brother what his life is like and the life of his friends, you would get a very different response than you would from me. People are so deep in their own shit, they can't see the forest.

[Traveler]

I think chanta76 may be trying to stereotype and attack white guys for going to Asia for the wrong reason. In reality, westerners go to Asia for different reasons. Some go because of economic reasons. If you have a degree in a subject like history you may be better off financially as an English teacher in Asia. Entry level pay is close to $2,000 in some countries and that may come with a free apartment. Some come to have new experiences. Recent college graduates in their 20s often want to see more of the world. Teaching English in Asia offers that opportunity. In Korea, most of the ESL teachers being hired from abroad nowadays are female. I doubt they are coming to Korea for women. The westerners who do come to Asia mainly for the women tend to go to countries like Thailand and the Philippines and they tend to be older guys. A lot of them are divorced and have had negative experience with women back in their home countries. They hope the women in Asia are better.

[blurryface]

This article http://www.happierabroad.com/forum/view ... =1&t=31146 describes the HA/manspear user base

[chanta76]

Traveler,

For a guy who posted David Bond video I don't know. And some of your Florida thread I don't know. I mean you pretty much like to stereotype yourself. I mean I'm not trying to stereotype but guys here complain about the condition of America. Can be about women? Can be about work? Can be about society? However, in your previous thread you wrote that South Korea is living hell so in your world view South Korea is worst than USA which is the antithesis view on this site. I mean most poster here think USA is the worst and being happier abroad is better.

Regarding my original question which dealt about working condition in Asia . My question was for guys who have work there but not just ESL related and if there is any difference between here and over there.


Actually ESL teachers don't make allot of money even if they get a free apt. It's limited. The living standards in South Korea and Japan is high. Even if you make $2000 a month an ESL teacher would either have to do allot of private tutoring or work double shift to really make money in places like South Korea or Japan. Not sure about other places. If you make only $2000 in South Korea be prepare to not do anything in the weekend to save money. The nightlife in South Korea can be expensive and the same goes for Japan.

When I was in South Korea I met a number of ESL teachers that couldn't score Korean girls because either they were too old or too weird and would vacation in Thailand or the Philippines for the girls. I'm not saying all western guys are like this but why would they be in Asia then. Just look at the threads in happier abroad. Most revolves around finding girls. I'm not against it just stating the obvious.

Regarding that nowadays that ESL teachers in Korea are becoming more and more western women. Do you know why? The hiring school or the HR prefer the western women because in the past it was mostly western guys who would apply but they would go there and just party at hongdae or it tae won and do stupid stuff. How do I know this? I have a Korean American friend who works in the ESL industry as a recruiter. So the recruiter bias pick western women over pretty anyone else.

[cdnFA]

When I was in South Korea I met a number of ESL teachers that couldn't score Korean girls because either they were too old or too weird and would vacation in Thailand or the Philippines for the girls. I'm not saying all western guys are like this but why would they be in Asia then. Just look at the threads in happier abroad. Most revolves around finding girls. I'm not against it just stating the obvious.

Regarding that nowadays that ESL teachers in Korea are becoming more and more western women. Do you know why? The hiring school or the HR prefer the western women because in the past it was mostly western guys who would apply but they would go there and just party at hongdae or it tae won and do stupid stuff. How do I know this? I have a Korean American friend who works in the ESL industry as a recruiter. So the recruiter bias pick western women over pretty anyone else.

In Japan and Korea the pay is shit, for a university grad, at least by western standards. OTOH it is better than starbucks if you can't find anything.

The part about ESL teachers who were too old or weird to get girls. That can't be true, the moment you land in Korea or Japan the girls line up to f**k anything that is white. The Internet says so, therefore it must be true! Don't tell me that people lie on the internet. Gasp. The horror!

Do the older dudes try to chase age appropriate women or do they just get rejected by those way too young. Japan is sort of on my back up list, it doesn't seem so great for dating, cute but hard to deal with women who are not all that interested in sex, OTOH it is clean and functional and modern which is nice.
I do wonder how I would do there, I'd hate to learn Japanese and make the effort to uproot for nothing. I can't really trust any individual source and most of the comments are all over the map and as a forever alone I fear I'd be at the bottom outlier of the bell curve.

I've heard that there is a preference for married guys and women in general, OTOH the private schools in Japan, at least some of them seem to base their marketing model on selling attractive western men to lonely young women and housewives in a somewhat subtle way, at least some of them from what I've read.

One thing through, you can't base your observations of humanity on the HA forum crowd, even assumptions on those who want the expat life. HA tends to attract the lunatic fringe and I am sure scares off many of the more normal set. The cost of the hands off moderation approach.

[droid]

They are not among the 60 who got first time married and will stay married till death generally happily, they are not among those who do have an active dating life.

Nah, what that doesn't say is that those guys settled for landwhales and trashy women. Their choice, but choosing elsewhere shouldn't be demonized or shamed either.
It's not black and white, some of you guys talk as if there really were no problems at all.

Local guy settles for "5" tatooed foulmouthed landwhale = Celebrated, well adjusted. Happily married statistic. i.e. he "did it".
Expat finds in-shape, polite "7" elsewhere = Maladjusted loser, scrapes bottom of the barrel.

local guy finds "9" = 'chad' that rightly uses what he's got.
Expat finds "9" = how dare you be a 'chad' and use what you've got?

[cdnFA]

They are not among the 60 who got first time married and will stay married till death generally happily, they are not among those who do have an active dating life.

Nah, what that doesn't say is that those guys settled for landwhales and trashy women. Their choice, but choosing elsewhere shouldn't be demonized or shamed either.
It's not black and white, some of you guys talk as if there really were no problems at all.

Local guy settles for "5" tatooed foulmouthed landwhale = Celebrated, well adjusted. Happily married statistic. i.e. he "did it".
Expat finds in-shape, polite "7" elsewhere = Maladjusted loser, scrapes bottom of the barrel.

local guy finds "9" = 'chad' that rightly uses what he's got.
Expat finds "9" = how dare you be a 'chad' and use what you've got?

Everyone I know who got married got married to someone on their level. Good looking STEM phd with similar. Pudgy nerd with pudgy nerd etc. About the only exception I can think of was a 300 pound neckbeard who got himself a average build female. Oh and there is me, after years of bitter failure I am now punching above my weight.
My actual brother has been married for about 25 years to a quality female as are her sisters. I was at a gathering of his and everyone there who was wifed up was with quality.

If this is what you are seeing, maybe you need to start hanging out with a better class of person and in better parts of town. It sure isn't what I am seeing.

There was a discussion elsewhere on the idea of if Expats in Japan get hotties or the uggos. The guy living in Japan suggested that the idea that white guys date far above their league in Japan is more a function of observational bias and if you were to look at every couple and make a note you would see something different. If you are all sex nuts and retard strong about land whales and guys dating shit, you will see a lot of that, you will overlook counter examples which I see every so often.

Also for every tattooed fat freak uncivil female, there are plenty of dudes who fit that description, I'd guess they mostly find each other. After one of the orthodoxies of HA is that women only want to date the bad boys, the uncivil tattooed freaks, not the clean cut guys.

I don't have a problem with chading up, but I do have a problem with those who go after girls who like their chadness and then put down women back home who are the exact same way. If I went overseas and my new found chadness brought all the girls to the yard, I think I would be looking at them with a more critical eye.

[droid]

My point was that for some reason there is an urge to dishonestly shame/demonize the expat.
If you think things can work out for you over there, good for you, hey why leave that basement.

[chanta76]

droid,

I wouldn't go as far as demonizing the expat but I understand where your coming from but how is that different from expats demonizing the western women back home?

My point was that working condition in Asia is TOUGH maybe tougher than USA. Granted an expat may not be working in Asia and just visiting but being a tourist is not the same as actually living there day by day and actually dealing with the locals in the ground level. I think Yohan is closet who actually has a real job in Japan and able to successful live in Japan.


Being happierabroad has different meaning for different people. For some guys yes it's all about mongering or sex. I'm not against that nor do I demonize men in doing that. I did that in my younger days. In my younger days I traveled around Asia and did p4p and some mongering of my own. Asia is still male dominate and one of the few places where it's easy to find p4p and the local people don;t make a BIG fuss about it unlike here in the west where everything became too feminist BUT outside of that living in Asia can be TOUGH. The working condition, pollution, the crowd and yes depending on the country the prices..