Cereal's response to Winston's Taiwan challenge

[CerealKiller]

Yeah but they are getting laid with ugly hags that I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

Come here. Let me take you to the night market with hundreds of hot girls with sexy legs. Let's see YOU approach any of them and try to breach their cold wall. I'll give you $200 if you can do it.

If you can't do it, then my point is proven.

So far, everyone has failed or been too scared. The cold wall is REAL. I am 100000000000 percent sure of it. And it makes approaching/flirting with them very uncomfortable.

Winston,

Just for the heck of it, I've decided to take you up on your night market challenge. First I should verify: when you say $200, you're talking about US dollars, right? Because I don't think anyone's going to bother trying if it's 200NT (~$6).

Also, I'm a bit surprised that Taiwan heavyweights like Rock or even Monkro haven't taken you up on this. Rock has probably dated hundreds of Taiwanese girls over the years, and bedded a fair proportion of those. As for Monkro, he seems to be a veritable pickup machine, if Rock's reports are anything to go by.

Then there's plain old me. Nothing to write home about, no specialized Taiwan knowledge, not even a handsome guy. But something about your challenge speaks to me, so what the heck, YOLO.

Anyway, let's see where this thread leads us.

[Rock]

Yeah but they are getting laid with ugly hags that I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

Come here. Let me take you to the night market with hundreds of hot girls with sexy legs. Let's see YOU approach any of them and try to breach their cold wall. I'll give you $200 if you can do it.

If you can't do it, then my point is proven.

So far, everyone has failed or been too scared. The cold wall is REAL. I am 100000000000 percent sure of it. And it makes approaching/flirting with them very uncomfortable.

Winston,

Just for the heck of it, I've decided to take you up on your night market challenge. First I should verify: when you say $200, you're talking about US dollars, right? Because I don't think anyone's going to bother trying if it's 200NT (~$6).

Also, I'm a bit surprised that Taiwan heavyweights like Rock or even Monkro haven't taken you up on this. Rock has probably dated hundreds of Taiwanese girls over the years, and bedded a fair proportion of those. As for Monkro, he seems to be a veritable pickup machine, if Rock's reports are anything to go by.

Then there's plain old me. Nothing to write home about, no specialized Taiwan knowledge, not even a handsome guy. But something about your challenge speaks to me, so what the heck, YOLO.

Anyway, let's see where this thread leads us.

I don't know when Winston wrote this but he and I actually approached some girls together at a night market in Chiayi maybe 2+ years ago and number/FB closed them. Nothing came of it other than some messaging back and forth between me and the one I was attracted to. She got married within a year of that encounter to some local guy. She's still my FB friend to this day and is still married to same guy and they already have a kid together.

I don't think approaching and collecting numbers is that difficult in Taiwan, even if Winston has bad luck with it. Monkro accumulated a list of well over 100 girls through cold approaches there. But closing deals with these leads (ie achieving intimacy), sigh, that seems to so much more challenging than it was during my pre-forum days in Taipei. Monkro only managed this with a small fraction from his list and none of them were his favorites. He came close with one or two genuine hotties (he has pretty stringent standards) but timing or other luck issues (Murphy's Law in Winston's world view) thwarted him.

Guys like El_Caudillo who according to Winston is tall, white, western, and youthful looking seem to struggle these days to convert 20 something female strangers into bona fide dates. It really was a different ballgame 5-10 years ago for someone like that. Even my non-Chinese speaking French tenant with very limited English back from 2011 had an easy time dating and enjoying casual encounters with student aged Taipei women.

[El_Caudillo]

Cereal where are you? If you are in Taiwan already I can offer you some warm up sessions in and around Taipei before you hit the badlands of Chiayi

I agree with both Rock and Winston. Rock is right in that it isn't too hard to approach women here and get their digits if you select carefully. But after that I've found it very hard to escalate. You seem to need to escalate slowly, but often you find out that the girl was interested in chatting and nothing else. And sometimes if you flat out ask a girl to go for coffee they will really freak out - even if they are in their 30s!

Actually the first girl I met here (from TInder) was 28, not bad looking and seemed into me. But she mentioned marriage on the second date and so I didn't want to get physical with her for the wrong reasons. Since then it's been all down hill. Yesterday I got back on tinder, there is a ton of good looking girls. I got two matches yesterday. One I started to chat with and I was getting the usual how long will you be in Taiwan, where do you live questions...I said, "Are you interested in getting a coffee sometime?" and she instantly deleted me!? Haha. Girls here like to waste your time on chat - I'm all for new friends, but those who can spare an hour for coffee at least once! I've been experimenting with other girls telling them I'm an assassin when they ask what my job is etc...they don't seem to be used to these jokey kind of replies...and sometimes think it's real, other times they laugh.

About a month ago I was approaching about five girls a day, I might try to get back to that. I'm also interested in trying a few pubs in Hsinchu and Taoyuan as to be honest the bars here in Taipei are overrun by either really young hipsters or hungry eyed foreign guys.

[El_Caudillo]

By the way Cereal are you real or just trying to give yourself jollies?

[The_Adventurer]

Maybe they just really don't like coffee...

[El_Caudillo]

Maybe they just really don't like coffee...

...or me, or men in general. But you're on the right track, It would be completely in character for them to reject for this reason...so it might not be as ridiculous as it seems to point out specifically that they could have tea, sprite, bloody water at the cafe;)

[CerealKiller]

By the way Cereal are you real or just trying to give yourself jollies?

Lol! Good one El_Caudillo. Unfortunately for the Winston Wu's of the world, I am all too real.

[CerealKiller]

Maybe they just really don't like coffee...

...or me, or men in general. But you're on the right track, It would be completely in character fro them to reject for this reason...so it might not be as ridiculous as it seems to point out specifically that they could have tea, sprite, bloody water at the cafe;)

Two words, El_Caudillo: man milk.

Man milk, mate.

[CerealKiller]

I don't know when Winston wrote this but he and I actually approached some girls together at a night market in Chiayi maybe 2+ years ago and number/FB closed them. Nothing came of it other than some messaging back and forth between me and the one I was attracted to. She got married within a year of that encounter to some local guy. She's still my FB friend to this day and is still married to same guy and they already have a kid together.

I don't think approaching and collecting numbers is that difficult in Taiwan, even if Winston has bad luck with it. Monkro accumulated a list of well over 100 girls through cold approaches there. But closing deals with these leads (ie achieving intimacy), sigh, that seems to so much more challenging than it was during my pre-forum days in Taipei. Monkro only managed this with a small fraction from his list and none of them were his favorites. He came close with one or two genuine hotties (he has pretty stringent standards) but timing or other luck issues (Murphy's Law in Winston's world view) thwarted him.

Guys like El_Caudillo who according to Winston is tall, white, western, and youthful looking seem to struggle these days to convert 20 something female strangers into bona fide dates. It really was a different ballgame 5-10 years ago for someone like that. Even my non-Chinese speaking French tenant with very limited English back from 2011 had an easy time dating and enjoying casual encounters with student aged Taipei women.

Rock,

Thanks for the reply. You are one of the better posters on HA, so I really appreciate that you took the time to reply here.

What you describe above is pretty much what I suspected would happen in Asia: tons of desperate beta male weeaboos from the West swarming in like locusts, all for that coveted Asian pùssy.

The end result of this is that simply being a White Guy in Asia™ does not make someone a special snowflake anymore.

Simply put, guys are going to have to actually bring something of substance to the table. Showing up in Asia and sticking your dick out, while it may have worked in the past, simply won't cut it today.

Would be interested to hear your thoughts on the matter.

[Rock]

I don't know when Winston wrote this but he and I actually approached some girls together at a night market in Chiayi maybe 2+ years ago and number/FB closed them. Nothing came of it other than some messaging back and forth between me and the one I was attracted to. She got married within a year of that encounter to some local guy. She's still my FB friend to this day and is still married to same guy and they already have a kid together.

I don't think approaching and collecting numbers is that difficult in Taiwan, even if Winston has bad luck with it. Monkro accumulated a list of well over 100 girls through cold approaches there. But closing deals with these leads (ie achieving intimacy), sigh, that seems to so much more challenging than it was during my pre-forum days in Taipei. Monkro only managed this with a small fraction from his list and none of them were his favorites. He came close with one or two genuine hotties (he has pretty stringent standards) but timing or other luck issues (Murphy's Law in Winston's world view) thwarted him.

Guys like El_Caudillo who according to Winston is tall, white, western, and youthful looking seem to struggle these days to convert 20 something female strangers into bona fide dates. It really was a different ballgame 5-10 years ago for someone like that. Even my non-Chinese speaking French tenant with very limited English back from 2011 had an easy time dating and enjoying casual encounters with student aged Taipei women.

Rock,

Thanks for the reply. You are one of the better posters on HA, so I really appreciate that you took the time to reply here.

What you describe above is pretty much what I suspected would happen in Asia: tons of desperate beta male weeaboos from the West swarming in like locusts, all for that coveted Asian pùssy.

The end result of this is that simply being a White Guy in Asia™ does not make someone a special snowflake anymore.

Simply put, guys are going to have to actually bring something of substance to the table. Showing up in Asia and sticking your dick out, while it may have worked in the past, simply won't cut it today.

Would be interested to hear your thoughts on the matter.

Take the statement in bold above, replace Asia with Taiwan, and you've pretty much summed up dating arbitrage opportunity there circa 2016. It appeared rather murky for a few transitional years with mixed data coming out. But by now it's become clear. The party is over, at least in Taiwan.

If you you wanna put in hard-core time and effort to get one quality gf there, and you are reasonably youthful, it may still be quite doable. For this sort of guy (maybe an Everdred type before he settled down w his wife), it's still going to be a much better environment IMO than fully contaminated Anglo countries. And if you're the kinda stud who can pull easily in various countries, I'm pretty sure you can get action in Taiwan too. But the low lying beta male type fruit which used to be available to white guys is pretty much gone lol.

Global daters or wife seekers who wish to achieve maximum arbitrage opps need to to study various potential hotspots around the world to figure out where their optimal HA destination might be. It's a dynamic playing field so anything you read that's dated may be misleading. Perceptions of different guys vary a lot too.

It may still be possible that countries can actually improve over time given the right circumstances. Is Ukraine better than it was 5 years ago? Perhaps. I would say HK has definitely improved due to the flood of mainlanders and even women from around the world there now including some decent quality Pinays. I also think Phils is better now than it used to be for real dating cus the number of up-and-coming middle class types has exploded yet much of that group as a whole has not yet reached the spoiled stage.

This type of analysis can be applied to various low and middle income countries around the world. I bet the African continent and even middle east has lots of interesting pockets worth exploring. Anyway, so much for Taiwan. It was awesome while it lasted lol.

[El_Caudillo]

The end result of this is that simply being a White Guy in Asia™ does not make someone a special snowflake anymore.

Simply put, guys are going to have to actually bring something of substance to the table. Showing up in Asia and sticking your dick out, while it may have worked in the past, simply won't cut it today.

That is well put, for Taiwan at least. Yes I think that this is just get a girlfriend territory. If you meet someone, get to know them, something might happen - like it would in any western country. At least there is a concentration of attractive in a small area here, and while not receptive, they are not aggressive in their rejections. I think my own experiences can also be explained as someone transitioning from night-game to day-game. I used to be a guy who did OK in bars, now my liver is no longer up to it. The change is partly through age and partly through wanting to be healthy...not broke.

[Winston]

Yeah but they are getting laid with ugly hags that I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

Come here. Let me take you to the night market with hundreds of hot girls with sexy legs. Let's see YOU approach any of them and try to breach their cold wall. I'll give you $200 if you can do it.

If you can't do it, then my point is proven.

So far, everyone has failed or been too scared. The cold wall is REAL. I am 100000000000 percent sure of it. And it makes approaching/flirting with them very uncomfortable.

Winston,

Just for the heck of it, I've decided to take you up on your night market challenge. First I should verify: when you say $200, you're talking about US dollars, right? Because I don't think anyone's going to bother trying if it's 200NT (~$6).

Also, I'm a bit surprised that Taiwan heavyweights like Rock or even Monkro haven't taken you up on this. Rock has probably dated hundreds of Taiwanese girls over the years, and bedded a fair proportion of those. As for Monkro, he seems to be a veritable pickup machine, if Rock's reports are anything to go by.

Then there's plain old me. Nothing to write home about, no specialized Taiwan knowledge, not even a handsome guy. But something about your challenge speaks to me, so what the heck, YOLO.

Anyway, let's see where this thread leads us.

I wrote that years ago. If you wanna take me up on the offer, PM me your contact info, like your WeChat or Facebook Messenger or something, so we can arrange to try to meet up in Taiwan. Yes I mean 200 USD.

FYI, Rock no longer approaches Taiwanese girls. He's given up on them. He just stands back and takes photos while I approach them. See our Taiwan update thread where I posted many photos of us doing just that.

And Monkro, he's given up as well. He is back in the US and preparing to go to China now, where me and Ethan_sg told him he'd do a lot better.

I highly doubt you'd do better than Rock or Monkro. lol. Plus you seem to know very little about women. Guys who think women are all about looks and money are very bad with women and usually jaded and don't even try seeking love anymore. Rock and I recently met a guy like that. He told us women were all about money and that you had to make 4,000 USD a month to get a hot Filipina. LOL. It turns out he is MGTOW and had given up on women because his Chinese wife left him after he brought her to America, so he's totally jaded, depressed and given up on women. Those are the kind of guys who think women are all about looks and money.

I see lots of ugly guys in Taiwan with hot girls. They aren't tall or handsome. Most of them are just average. I've even seen short useless looking boys with tall hot Taiwanese girls that look like models. Recently I took a photo of them in Taipei, however, since she was spoon feeding him in the mall food court, he may have been her little brother. I don't know.

The truth is, none of our forum members here have married a Taiwanese girl. That should speak volumes. Even Momopi, the most Taiwanese-ish guy here, married a Cantonese girl. Freethinker types vibe the least well with Taiwanese girls.

Taiwanese girls also have a weird vibe that doesn't make you feel good or confident about yourself. So you won't feel that great approaching them. Trust me. You are weird for even trying to take me up on this offer. I don't make bets against people if I am likely to lose. I'm not that stupid you know.

[Winston]

El_Caudillo and Rock,

Why don't you write the Taiwanese women on these dating sites:

http://www.pof.com
http://www.okcupid.com
http://www.dateinasia.com

They are English speaking dating sites. So in theory the Taiwanese women on them would be looking for white western men, just like you, right? Have you tried that before? There are a fair share of Taiwanese women on them by the way. You can search their database and see.

[HouseMD]

Yeah but they are getting laid with ugly hags that I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole.

Come here. Let me take you to the night market with hundreds of hot girls with sexy legs. Let's see YOU approach any of them and try to breach their cold wall. I'll give you $200 if you can do it.

If you can't do it, then my point is proven.

So far, everyone has failed or been too scared. The cold wall is REAL. I am 100000000000 percent sure of it. And it makes approaching/flirting with them very uncomfortable.

Winston,

Just for the heck of it, I've decided to take you up on your night market challenge. First I should verify: when you say $200, you're talking about US dollars, right? Because I don't think anyone's going to bother trying if it's 200NT (~$6).

Also, I'm a bit surprised that Taiwan heavyweights like Rock or even Monkro haven't taken you up on this. Rock has probably dated hundreds of Taiwanese girls over the years, and bedded a fair proportion of those. As for Monkro, he seems to be a veritable pickup machine, if Rock's reports are anything to go by.

Then there's plain old me. Nothing to write home about, no specialized Taiwan knowledge, not even a handsome guy. But something about your challenge speaks to me, so what the heck, YOLO.

Anyway, let's see where this thread leads us.

When I've got some vacation time, I'll take Winston up on it, gladly. Don't even need to pay me if I win, I'll buy some conciliatory drinks the following evening and we can discuss differences in approach.

[droid]

When I've got some vacation time, I'll take Winston up on it, gladly. Don't even need to pay me if I win, I'll buy some conciliatory drinks the following evening and we can discuss differences in approach.

Quoted for truth.