I would have never thought...

[yick]

I wish it was that simple. If it took a few months of celibacy and being a good boy to magically make a quality girl attracted to me, I would definitely do it. But it doesn't.

How do you know? If you haven't done it - so you don't know. The most important timeline of course is in the beginning when nobody knows you, it's hard to pull back a tarnished reputation.

Of course I had a few intimate encounters with girls you could define low-class, mostly out of lust and the need to let the steam out of my system, but they all happened behind four walls, not in public as you imply. All the innocent coffee shop or dinner dates I had were with girls who were not low-class, didn't look low-class and I genuinely though I could give a shot to. Of course none of them were perfect, nor am I, but I knew I had to compromise. As you can see, it lead to nothing.

And there you have it, do you not think people notice, especially people as gossipy as Filipinos? People who are addicted to the lives of telenovela stars, you think you might have been discreet and not putting it about but you won't have escaped scrutiny. There aren't that many relatively high profile white people in Davao as it is, you are probably one of a handful.

Now Davao might not be a village but it isn't teeming with foreigners either, I live in a city of six million (which if it was in Europe would make it one of its biggest cities) and a lot of people have my measure. They know I am not a drunk, they know I am not a whore chaser, they know I am not shagging my students, they know I am not mentally ill and being a pest.

True story, I was teaching a class with my freshmen students and I was telling them I don't drink alcohol.

'We know...' they said, and this is it, if you are a white man in Asia and have some standing within that community (business leader, educator, celebrity) then people make it their business to know your business and what you're about.

We had a teacher and everyone knew he was a drunk despite the fact he was 'discreet' how did everyone know? He would go to the local Wal Mart every other day for bottles of white Chilean wine and every other day, he would leave out his empty bottles, wrapped in black bags in the trash - but of course, even Chinese bin men know what a wine bottle looks and feels like - and soon enough, his name was shit, he was a drunk, despite the fact he never went the the local bars.

So, in that case, the tom tom drums went from Wal Mart cashier to the bin men on campus to the students and basically everyone in this city (he was later sacked) - the facts are - doesn't matter how big a city is in Asia outside the capitals - if you are white and have a position of power, privilige or trust, they might as well be small villages as regards your good name and reputation.

[yick]

I wish it was that simple. If it took a few months of celibacy and being a good boy to magically make a quality girl attracted to me, I would definitely do it. But it doesn't.

How do you know? If you haven't done it - so you don't know. The most important timeline of course is in the beginning when nobody knows you, it's hard to pull back a tarnished reputation.

Of course I had a few intimate encounters with girls you could define low-class, mostly out of lust and the need to let the steam out of my system, but they all happened behind four walls, not in public as you imply. All the innocent coffee shop or dinner dates I had were with girls who were not low-class, didn't look low-class and I genuinely though I could give a shot to. Of course none of them were perfect, nor am I, but I knew I had to compromise. As you can see, it lead to nothing.

And there you have it, do you not think people notice, especially people as gossipy as Filipinos? People who are addicted to the lives of telenovela stars, you think you might have been discreet and not putting it about but you won't have escaped scrutiny. There aren't that many relatively high profile white people in Davao as it is, you are probably one of a handful.

Now Davao might not be a village but it isn't teeming with foreigners either, I live in a city of six million (which if it was in Europe would make it one of its biggest cities) and a lot of people have my measure. They know I am not a drunk, they know I am not a whore chaser, they know I am not shagging my students, they know I am not mentally ill and being a pest.

True story, I was teaching a class with my freshmen students and I was telling them I don't drink alcohol.

'We know...' they said, and this is it, if you are a white man in Asia and have some standing within that community (business leader, educator, celebrity) then people make it their business to know your business and what you're about.

We had a teacher and everyone knew he was a drunk despite the fact he was 'discreet' how did everyone know? He would go to the local Wal Mart every other day for bottles of white Chilean wine and every other day, he would leave out his empty bottles, wrapped in black bags in the trash - but of course, even Chinese bin men know what a wine bottle looks and feels like - and soon enough, his name was shit, he was a drunk, despite the fact he never went the the local bars.

So, in that case, the tom tom drums went from Wal Mart cashier to the bin men on campus to the students and basically everyone in this city (he was later sacked) - the facts are - doesn't matter how big a city is in Asia outside the capitals - if you are white and have a position of power, privilige or trust, they might as well be small villages as regards your good name and reputation.

[yick]

IMHO, Asia has a "not so subtle" caste system. Unlike the good ol' USA, there tends to be a bigger delineation between the "haves and the havenots" and the two don't necessarily mingle or interact much.

So as a foreigner, it's almost implied that you are in Asia to play around with the "havenots." The other guys are right, the onus will be on you to prove that you are not there to swim in the swamp.

This is one of the advantages IMHO of building a long term relationship online. If you are lucky enough to be able to talk with a higher class Filipina, you have the opportunity to show her what you are about. They are all looking for the same qualities. 1. Are you stable 2. Will you be able to provide a roof over her head 3. Will you be a good husband? If you are able to convey the positives, THEN you go over and meet her and reinforce what you can offer her.

If I didn't have the luxury of building trust online, there would be virtually NO chance of heading over to Phils, approaching my wife cold and her showing me any degree of interest. Again, the onus is on you to prove that you are a good guy and this takes TIME.

Good post, Pete!

I always tell people on the ground who want a relationship with a local lady 'do you want a quick result or do you want a result that you're happy with on a long term basis' if you want the former then it is a lot easier to pursue and it might end up in a car crash (or it might not... sometimes they don't) but if you want a relationship with a woman you really like who's quality, then this does take time.

I think the Philippines is a tad easier because of the lack of language barrier, but in China, it might take more than a year to establish yourself locally as a person of decency, here, people take notice of the small things and of physical actions, because most people don't speak English and can't gauge your personality via discourse, they do it via what you do and where you go - and once your reputation is flushed down the toilet, it never ever flushes back up, it's gone for good.

But if you do establish yourself as a person of decency, it is funny how many opportunities open up, how many nice looking women start looking at you favourably and start initiating discourse - but this takes time, there are other factors, learning the language (or as much as you can...) being smart and presentable, being polite and somewhat friendly. All these things count in the long term if you want someone decent.

[Zambales]

Well, that's why I just said I avoid those women! Where is the confusion?

You did hint about having a fling with a married woman, did you not? One of the first things I learnt from the contacts I know, who live or have lived in the Philippines was not to make yourself a target. By that I mean, don't go treading on other peoples toes, especially a husbands toes.

Kradmelder's right. You need to concentrate on making a living and either put your search for Miss Philippines on hold or at least tone it down. What you can't do is allow yourself to worry over finding a woman because you're doubling the workload so to speak. Starting a business is stressful enough without adding extra on top. Basically, you're biting off more than you can chew at the moment.

You may be even on the verge of a mental breakdown hence all the head spinning and confusion. Or. Like I mentioned before you may have a commitment phobia. Or. As someone else suggested, depression may be a factor. Or. It could be all three. I'm no expert though so don't take that as gospel but for the foreseeable future you need to simplify your life instead of over complicating it and see if anything improves. If not, it may be a good idea to see a qualified professional - and there's no shame in that.

[Zambales]

This means that, if you look at the age range that you think would be suitable for a man my age (or yours), the mid to late 30s, you will see that virtually ALL of these women are married and certainly with kids.

I'm of a similar age to you, and the FIRST Pinay I've met romantically in that specific age range you mentioned is unmarried and has no kids!

Good for you. Did you actually meet her, or you're talking to her online. Careful about those white lies...

I'm confident she's telling the truth. She knew full well from the offset that she'd be wasting her time with me if any major bullshit was concocted.

[Rock]

Having sex with low class women is a sure way to ensure the quality ones stay away. <----- Truth!

That is, provided:

1) there are quality women who would be interested in dating me;
2) said women are constantly watching every move of mine and judging it.

Pete, the statement above might sound inspiring and truthful but, by my experience, it doesn't define my problem.

My problem is not that I date low-class women. My problem is that there are no quality women available to date in sight, at least in my current social set-up. It's true that I have a public profile and meet and interact with a lot of people. Whenever I meet a woman I recognise as quality on all fronts (brains, personality and looks), she is inevitably taken: has a boyfriend, she is engaged, or she is married. The rare ones who are actually available are frankly too unattractive for me to give them a shot. On a few occasions I did try my best to see if my sapiosexual self could take over, and failed.

In short, as I wrote and we all concluded somewhere else: I have too much stress, too little peace of mind and too little time to look for and seriously pursue a quality woman. Yes I can always date the low-hanging fruits off the DIA or Tinder tree: the desperate single mom, the occasional bored/frustrated MILF, the dumb girl from the province. But, unlike what Krad and his stupid stereotypes suggest him, I am long past the stage where I feel excitement in entertaining low-class people. If I ever had the habit of doing the "ciao bella" routine of his imaginary Italian character, which I don't, I just don't have time and state of mind right now.

I am writing this in the NAIA domestic terminal 2. They have a remarkable fast Internet here. For the first time, I tried to book an early morning flight on Friday and a late evening flight on the same day. I got stuck with my client (the largest TV network in the Philippines) until late afternoon to fix a problem, which I did fix. I then lost my flight and had to crush in a Go Hotel for a few hours. I hadn't slept at all the (Thursday) night before because I had a meeting with another client in London for several hours and went straight to the airport to catch said early flight to Manila.

After this couple of posts here, I will continue to write yet another client proposal, which should have been ready on Friday and is now going for Monday. I will arrive in Davao, get changed and go back to the office, as there's a Python developer community event that we are hosting. I was actually supposed to do a session but couldn't finish to prepare it, so that's postponed.

This has been my life for the past days/weeks/months. Did I willingly choose it? No, not at all. But it's happening and I have to face it. There is only me here building this company and, although I have two Filipino partners who are helping me with contacts, leads and opportunities, I have to stand up to all of them and make them happen. They can only be the catalysts, I have to do everything else.

It's frustrating, tiring and soul-crushing, but it comes with its sporadic moments of satisfaction. I was in Manila for the closure of this particular project and had lunch with the head of IT of said TV network, an executive with more than 450 people under him. We discussed about a further project on data integration, the chaos of his native Cebu and the relative peace of Davao and his passion for Ferraris. He thanked me and my tiny pimple of a company for helping his organisation with quite a complex infrastructure scaling task that their staff or resident consultants (IBM) did not have the skills to perform. He promised me to introduce me to the IT executives of the largest power company in the country, asking me to join them for breakfast.

You guys might find it amusing or annoying, that I have come back to HA, after a couple of years of press silence, with a few depressing pleas unworthy a mature man like me. Well, I hope you will all forgive me for using this forum as an outlet for my frustration, like may members do. It's hard to find people who can understand me, let alone provide useful advice (which, as you said on your other post, it is good to repeat from time to time!).

Thing is, for the past 18 months at least, I have been living in a state of suspended breath. Working my arse off, on limited financial stability and a relatively frugal lifestyle, for the promise of a "full package" of rewards - business/financial success, recognition, a fulfilling social life and, of course, my dream woman - that always seems to beckon far on the horizon and yet vahishes in a puff when I try to grasp it. Every time I have to go back to my routine, resigned that "nope, not time yet", every time more frustrated.

Until, in the past 2 or 3 months, it started to dawn on me that the opportunity cost of this life/business venture of mine has probably been too high, and not worth the hassle,

With hindsight, I could have done what I concluded quite a few posts ago: stay in London on a relatively uneventful but handsomely paid job, save money and sweep the elusive, needle-in-a-haystack quality Filipina off her feet by dragging my weight of a London-living, financially stable mature man. As I said many times before, by coming over here and risking it all on this business, I lost 90% of what might have made me attractive, in fact irresistible, to the kind of woman I would like to get.

I killed the goose who lays golden eggs, and found out she's not made of gold.

All of that actually sounds promising. If you keep working like this and don't let up on your niche marketing efforts, you may very well make it. Nothing begats luck like hard consistent work and effort. Great luck with doing what no other westerner could do. There is great upside to this if you make it happen.

[Rock]

PD

How do you carry on in the Phillipines? If you are carrying on like Stefano the italian sleaze on the Piazza Navona, with a Ciao Bella and bellissima to every young girl you want to pomp, the decent ones will run.

Having sex with low class women is a sure way to ensure the quality ones stay away. If you want quality you must abstain because word spreads fast, especially as a visible minority, like any white man in a non-white nation. I would not have gotten a decent quality lady if I was stilling banging the former mistress. Women know these things. Nothing turns off a quality woman more than thinking of herself as a cum receptacle amongst the low class trash. Things like having to hide your phone, turn it off when you are with her etc.are an immediate sign. Also it distracts you. You have to take the time to identify quality, ensure she has the qualities you want, and plan a prolonged siege, court them, and behave like quality. You need to give them your full attention. You are not going to bang them after 1 to 3 encounters. it doesnt work with quality women. They know what they want, and your whining, demands for sex, partying, and horniness etc are not it. If you are screwing around with others you are not it either. They will quickly take your measure as quick as Stefano is seen as sleazeball on the Piazza. Stefano will get the middle aged divorced fatties who fly out of Luton on a package tour with fantasies of a latin lover, but that is all. if you want class, you have to have to show class and behave like a man of quality fitting your social status (a respectable business owner here to stay), not not like a sleazeball Italian waiter on the Piazza San Marco offering mandolins and gondolas, or some drunken sex tourist yank in t-shirt and slops and baseball cap.

if you weigh it up, even the sex with a quality woman is far better than with the trashy ones, once you get it. They actually care about pleasing you and they are horny once they figure you are a good candidate. It just takes some old fashioned means. I had to wait a few weeks with a prolonged siege of decent behaviour. But it was also fun and we laughed a lot. She sized me up, got to know me and my character before she would entertain any moves, and made sure I really wanted to know her, not just a quick pomp, or one amongst others. She wanted a man, a man of quality she can respect and who gives respect back, then i got all the things men say they want on here. Certainly behaving like a horny whining boy would have been a quick way out the door and having to use my hand or back with former mistress.

Krad,

I appreciate the effort to cast aside your usual racial/national typing, which did work for the first few paragraphs at least, and give me useful advice. Your point sounds solid and, as you see below, got some credit. Problem is, it comes from the wrong assumptions.

You are assuming that I am some sort of cheesy latin lover who would rather f**k anything that moves rather than stopping and waiting for the elusive quality woman to turn up. This is completely untrue: it's not who I am and it's not what I do. Of course I had a few intimate encounters with girls you could define low-class, mostly out of lust and the need to let the steam out of my system, but they all happened behind four walls, not in public as you imply. All the innocent coffee shop or dinner dates I had were with girls who were not low-class, didn't look low-class and I genuinely though I could give a shot to. Of course none of them were perfect, nor am I, but I knew I had to compromise. As you can see, it lead to nothing.

It's also true, as I stated many times before, that I haven't had the time and state of mind to put my best effort to finding a quality woman and. Plus, also thanks to Rock and another couple of Manila-based people, it's started to dawn on me that Davao is just not the kind of playground that is replete with single quality women (they tend to be abroad or working in Manila). That's why I am even toying with the idea of leaving my staff unsupervised and renting a condo here in Makati.

Another assumption you are making, which is evocative but wrong, is that quality women are somehow hiding in disgust as they see me in public with low-class girls. As I said, I have never gone out in public with low-class girls. Davao isn't exactly a village and people simple don't give a damn of what they see as they walk through a mall or public venue. Filipinas are usually very direct and they would never miss the chance of saying "I have seen you before" or "I saw you hand in hand with that girl". It did happen in a few cases, but it never had the sound of a criticism or a warning that I wouldn't be able to see that particular woman anymore.

I agree with you that pursuing a quality woman is an investment and takes an effort, the "prolonged siege of decent behaviour" you mention. I think my problem is, since my time is so scarce, I am probably looking for a truly exceptional woman who could be worth such an investment of time and effort. So far I haven't found a single girl who is single, available and worth this investment. Not one.

Lastly, if I am acting as a whining boy - which I am I admit it - here, it's because it's an anonymous online forum which I know well and feel comfortable with. I know it's full of members whose wisdom and wit I trust and I know that, by baring myself naked in front of a large online audience, I expose myself to less than pleasant commentary such as that coming from you, Yick or Adama. But that's OK, everybody has something to contribute and everyone's opinion has something valuable to add.

In your particular case, I just wish you didn't occasionally (often?) slip into such trite stereotypes like the latin lover on a gondola, or the horny sex tourist or the Italian wimp, to substantiate your argument. For all the racism and nastiness some of your posts exude, I still believe you're an intelligent person and I can assure you your point stand on their own feet without having to colour them with stereotypes and insults.

I just wrote you a more lengthy PM about this topic as well.

Before I met you in Davao (we met first in Makati), I had this image of you as being a supreme gentleman of higher class and standing, someone who'd managed to reach a respectable tier in London from scratch, and someone who had generally high standards, confidence, prudence, and character.

But the first time I visited you in Davao, I was appalled at the local company you were keeping. I just couldn't understand why you would engage in such drama with someone who middle class Asian's would summarily write off as drunk white guy bait. You've brought out a date or two when we met in Makati as well I recall lol. Who you keep in your hotel or residence and who you go out with to restos (we did go out after all), is not necessarily gonna be kept a secret in such a small city like Davao. If you had immediate sex needs, why didn't you just quietly take one of these unpresentables to a local hourly hotel on the downlow, do the deed, throw her a bit of cash, then exit separate from her. Learn from the NE Asian guys. They tend to be much better at natural discretion when taking care of such needs, the opposite of show the world white guys. That's because local guys understand just how bad it really looks if you treat it as dating.

As for finding decent girls, you could have played the online game back then by using online courting of various girls around the country. If you had figured out good filtering and attraction techniques, this indeed was doable at the time. Quality girls usually can go slow and let things build up slowly, even if mainly via cam and chat. Building mutual trust with these types tends to a lot of a lot time anyway.

You know what? Even I gossip sometimes with whomever I'm with about the foreigners I see around and about on a repeated basis my little neck of the Makati woods. There is a weird ass American guy with long white hair who never seems to change clothes and looses his temper in public from time to time. Most people just give him a wide berth though he does seem to have a friend or two with him from time to time. There's another American guy who is on friendly terms with lots of people (local and foreign) and appears to be well liked by all. But still, people snicker behind his back. He lives with a serious local gf of 3 years who appears to be a ladyboy posing as a real woman. Of course that's his personal business and people treat is as don't ask, don't tell. But still, it seriously affects their perception of him. Another guy who is known is an Israeli proprietor of a small resto. His business seems to be booming pretty much 24/7 and his friends seem endless. I never seen him with skanks (I think he's married though) and it's hard not to envy him even though he's quite an old guy. From time to time, you see this or that foreigner walking around with a classy looking local girl. If anything, I think it automatically gives him some instant credibility and distance from the unfortunate white sexpat stereotype. Ditto for those white guys with decent looking non-local girls though they tend to be automatically perceived as tourist visitors or backpackers passing through.

Don't expect your mid/hi so friends to necessarily let you know if they've seen or heard about you in the context of mingling with the underclass. South East Asians, especially those from polite society, tend to avoid discussing certain personal topics or opening a can of worms on something which would lead to an embarrassing loss of face, especially to an outsider.

Duende, if you do rent an apartment in Makati, don't let the vast size of this metropolis lull you into a sense of believing you are anonymous. The guards and staff in your condo will talk. The people who frequently see you in the malls and restos will talk. You will be watched, at least in your own backyard. So if you wanna do the dirty with a darkie (Kradspeak lol), maybe head over to Malate or arrange to meet-up in some EDSA mall near a Sogo or Go Hotel. You could even pop over to nearby Burgos and hit up a short term room there though that's a bit more risky.

[publicduende]

I wish it was that simple. If it took a few months of celibacy and being a good boy to magically make a quality girl attracted to me, I would definitely do it. But it doesn't.

How do you know? If you haven't done it - so you don't know. The most important timeline of course is in the beginning when nobody knows you, it's hard to pull back a tarnished reputation.

Of course I have done it, but not for that reason. I am not the "hunter" kind of dater, who needs fresh blood every day. I had some dry spells, one lasting about 3 months. It's not black magic, it's statistics, the law of cause and effect. Quality girls who are single and available are rare anywhere in the world: it takes effort to find them and even more effort to convince them that you're the one for them. That, unless you win the lottery ticket where they fall for you.

In the Philippines it's harder (not easier, as some still think) because they are essentially an insular society, with an informal tiered social system steeped in DNA, status, and looks, in this order. What Pete said in his post above.

What would have changed if I had stopped seeing girls in private or even in public for 1 week, or 1 month? A "reputation reset"? I have a friend here, an Italian, who back in his days before getting married (with the typical poor morena, very very pretty though) was banging left right and center. He has been an amateur photographer for most of his life and decided to do it as a job here in Davao. He has been running a modeling academy and you see moms who let their daughters, often pre-teen girls, spend the entire day with the man for modeling shots. Considering what he was doing, his reputation would have been tarnished to no end and nobody would have entrusted him with their kids.

I see where you are coming from, you have a point, but I don't think it matters much in my case.

Of course I had a few intimate encounters with girls you could define low-class, mostly out of lust and the need to let the steam out of my system, but they all happened behind four walls, not in public as you imply. All the innocent coffee shop or dinner dates I had were with girls who were not low-class, didn't look low-class and I genuinely though I could give a shot to. Of course none of them were perfect, nor am I, but I knew I had to compromise. As you can see, it lead to nothing.

And there you have it, do you not think people notice, especially people as gossipy as Filipinos? People who are addicted to the lives of telenovela stars, you think you might have been discreet and not putting it about but you won't have escaped scrutiny. There aren't that many relatively high profile white people in Davao as it is, you are probably one of a handful.

Now Davao might not be a village but it isn't teeming with foreigners either, I live in a city of six million (which if it was in Europe would make it one of its biggest cities) and a lot of people have my measure. They know I am not a drunk, they know I am not a whore chaser, they know I am not shagging my students, they know I am not mentally ill and being a pest.

OK, people might have seen me having coffee and chatting with different girls. They might have seen me holding their hands or even kissing them. Unless they actively stalked me, how would they be able to notice that I was giving one or three girls the chance of a coffee or dinner date? Is it now socially unacceptable to take out a girl and, if things don't click, take out another the next time you have free time?

If anything, people will have seen me associating myself with the good Filipino society. Hanging out with entrepreneurs and high-ranking public officers, doing charity, joining public debates and taking the mike in front of dozens or hundreds of people. The number of times people might have seen me in these kinds of social settings is overwhelmingly higher than when they might have caught me laughing with a girl in front of a cup of coffee or glass of beer.

True story, I was teaching a class with my freshmen students and I was telling them I don't drink alcohol.

'We know...' they said, and this is it, if you are a white man in Asia and have some standing within that community (business leader, educator, celebrity) then people make it their business to know your business and what you're about.

We had a teacher and everyone knew he was a drunk despite the fact he was 'discreet' how did everyone know? He would go to the local Wal Mart every other day for bottles of white Chilean wine and every other day, he would leave out his empty bottles, wrapped in black bags in the trash - but of course, even Chinese bin men know what a wine bottle looks and feels like - and soon enough, his name was shit, he was a drunk, despite the fact he never went the the local bars.

So, in that case, the tom tom drums went from Wal Mart cashier to the bin men on campus to the students and basically everyone in this city (he was later sacked) - the facts are - doesn't matter how big a city is in Asia outside the capitals - if you are white and have a position of power, privilige or trust, they might as well be small villages as regards your good name and reputation.

That's an interesting story there. I think closely-knit communities, like those you find in Asia and obviously the Philippines, use gossip as an antibody, to protect themselves from individuals or situations that might undermine their existence or well-being. Perhaps your teacher colleague's drinking habits, being him a public figure entrusted with children of the community, started to be perceived as a very undesirable, even dangerous trait, by the members of your community. The gossip wouldn't be "Mr. ABC drinks a lot", but "We don't like that Mr. ABC is responsible for our kids yet he's a drunkard".

Under this assumption, I fail to see what kind of negative connotation I would have in been seen in public with the occasional girl.

[Kradmelder]

So according to Rock, Stefano has been doing the Latin sleazeball and drama in public on the filipino piazza. Replete with the local version of darkies, morenas.

The upper class filipinos must be locking up their daughters

It will be a hard to convince them you have changed at your age. A young man could possibly say he was young and foolish but PD has a long road ahead of him to convince the upper levels that he made mistakes and is ready to settle.

From what I read Filipino society is not much different than here. Insular and protective of dna and rigid classes. Like here it is open to other whites (I am labelling the upper filipinos as 'white'as they seem to be much lighter) but only of good repute. And if you have a rep of having pomped darkies your chance of breaking in to that society drop to nearly nil. Drunk behaviour may be forgiven if not too public but crossing that class line, no.

I don't know if this is correct as I don't know asian societies. But going by what rock, yick and Dave say, it sounds familiar. We also have loads of non white whores. Mix there and you are done in white society. Unless you can hide it really well. If any decent white girl finds out you have been there she will flee, or be very angry if she was duped.

Upper class asians sound very much like good white people.just maybe more open to race mixing if the white man proves himself to be of good repute.

[publicduende]

I just wrote you a more lengthy PM about this topic as well.

Before I met you in Davao (we met first in Makati), I had this image of you as being a supreme gentleman of higher class and standing, someone who'd managed to reach a respectable tier in London from scratch, and someone who had generally high standards, confidence, prudence, and character.

But the first time I visited you in Davao, I was appalled at the local company you were keeping. I just couldn't understand why you would engage in such drama with someone who middle class Asian's would summarily write off as drunk white guy bait. You've brought out a date or two when we met in Makati as well I recall lol. Who you keep in your hotel or residence and who you go out with to restos (we did go out after all), is not necessarily gonna be kept a secret in such a small city like Davao. If you had immediate sex needs, why didn't you just quietly take one of these unpresentables to a local hourly hotel on the downlow, do the deed, throw her a bit of cash, then exit separate from her. Learn from the NE Asian guys. They tend to be much better at natural discretion when taking care of such needs, the opposite of show the world white guys. That's because local guys understand just how bad it really looks if you treat it as dating.

Thanks for gathering that stellar first impression. Unfortunately first impressions always tend to be partial and rarely live up one's own expectations. Taking things out of context is also a common mistake made when one wants to quickly get an impression of another person. I am who I am.

If by "local company" you mean S***, she was one of the prettiest Filipinas, in fact one of the prettiest girls, I have ever met in my life. I could have done away with the drama, but surely I didn't expect her to be my girlfriend. It was just a fling. Remember than when we met in Davao in April/May 2015 I hadn't made up my mind of coming over here. Even the business was just an idea that might have materialised at some point the following year. I ended up accelerating on that because we found a sponsorship with the guys I was working with, and we could start with the business a bit sooner.

The one thing I absolutely abhor is paying for sex. I do not do that, and never will. Don't care if this is more common in Asia. Maybe it's a personality thing, but I can't stand the feeling of someone giving herself to me only as one side of a spot cash transaction. The fist girl I introduced to you in Makati, not the one we met in SM Aura, was definitely low-class but had a crush on me and had some business to do in Manila, at Makati City Hall which was round the corner from where I was staying. So I agreed to have her stay with me for those days.

I honestly thought you would keep these kinds of details discreet. Looks like you guys here are more concerned about judging my dates than the Filipinos you consider judgmental.

As for finding decent girls, you could have played the online game back then by using online courting of various girls around the country. If you had figured out good filtering and attraction techniques, this indeed was doable at the time. Quality girls usually can go slow and let things build up slowly, even if mainly via cam and chat. Building mutual trust with these types tends to a lot of a lot time anyway.

You sound like I am done with finding decent girls because of my past sins. I don't know about that.

Filtering and attraction techniques...I prefer to be myself and use the law of large numbers. I should go out more and maybe hang out with people from more modest backgrounds, who might more eager than the Davao high society, to put the word out there that I am single and looking. And even then, the risk is to be introduced the barangay spinster, as it happened in the past.

You know what? Even I gossip sometimes with whomever I'm with about the foreigners I see around and about on a repeated basis my little neck of the Makati woods.

I can see that

There is a weird ass American guy with long white hair who never seems to change clothes and looses his temper in public from time to time. Most people just give him a wide berth though he does seem to have a friend or two with him from time to time. There's another American guy who is on friendly terms with lots of people (local and foreign) and appears to be well liked by all. But still, people snicker behind his back. He lives with a serious local gf of 3 years who appears to be a ladyboy posing as a real woman. Of course that's his personal business and people treat is as don't ask, don't tell. But still, it seriously affects their perception of him. Another guy who is known is an Israeli proprietor of a small resto. His business seems to be booming pretty much 24/7 and his friends seem endless. I never seen him with skanks (I think he's married though) and it's hard not to envy him even though he's quite an old guy. From time to time, you see this or that foreigner walking around with a classy looking local girl. If anything, I think it automatically gives him some instant credibility and distance from the unfortunate white sexpat stereotype. Ditto for those white guys with decent looking non-local girls though they tend to be automatically perceived as tourist visitors or backpackers passing through.

I think we all know foreigners in the Philippines come in different sizes and shapes. It's only natural that a community will see them, most of them, as oddities. As I said in my reply to Yick, the ones with the most socially undesirable, or even dangerous, traits, will be the subject or heavier gossip. If the Israeli resto owner (the shawarma place in the mall?) you are referring to has a clientele that looks distinctive and classy, of course his business will look better and he will have an active interest in pursuing that kind of clientele. I agree.

Don't expect your mid/hi so friends to necessarily let you know if they've seen or heard about you in the context of mingling with the underclass. South East Asians, especially those from polite society, tend to avoid discussing certain personal topics or opening a can of worms on something which would lead to an embarrassing loss of face, especially to an outsider.

Actually, I expect it indeed, because my friends have been very direct about it! Some of them did see me dating different girls, most of whom not the most desirable type to them. Some of them may well have an opinion. Some of them, especially their wives, do ask me why I am still single as if they didn't know, or at least imagine, that maybe I am not looking for the type of woman most foreigners seem contented with and settle with. I find their judgment, if ever is a judgment, quite benign.

Duende, if you do rent an apartment in Makati, don't let the vast size of this metropolis lull you into a sense of believing you are anonymous. The guards and staff in your condo will talk. The people who frequently see you in the malls and restos will talk. You will be watched, at least in your own backyard. So if you wanna do the dirty with a darkie (Kradspeak lol), maybe head over to Malate or arrange to meet-up in some EDSA mall near a Sogo or Go Hotel. You could even pop over to nearby Burgos and hit up a short term room there though that's a bit more risky.

LOL so if I have to bang a "darkie" I have to spend 1,000 pesos on a motel room even when I have my own pad nearby? I am not that concerned about the security guard or the receptionist talking. I am more concerned about being in a shitty relationship and my girlfriend doing all the bad PR talking, and making scorched earth around me.

[publicduende]

So according to Rock, Stefano has been doing the Latin sleazeball and drama in public on the filipino piazza. Replete with the local version of darkies, morenas.

The upper class filipinos must be locking up their daughters

More of your stereotyping? Give me a buzz when you're over and done with it.

It will be a hard to convince them you have changed at your age. A young man could possibly say he was young and foolish but PD has a long road ahead of him to convince the upper levels that he made mistakes and is ready to settle.

From what I read Filipino society is not much different than here. Insular and protective of dna and rigid classes. Like here it is open to other whites (I am labelling the upper filipinos as 'white'as they seem to be much lighter) but only of good repute. And if you have a rep of having pomped darkies your chance of breaking in to that society drop to nearly nil. Drunk behaviour may be forgiven if not too public but crossing that class line, no.

I don't know if this is correct as I don't know asian societies. But going by what rock, yick and Dave say, it sounds familiar. We also have loads of non white whores. Mix there and you are done in white society. Unless you can hide it really well. If any decent white girl finds out you have been there she will flee, or be very angry if she was duped.

Upper class asians sound very much like good white people.just maybe more open to race mixing if the white man proves himself to be of good repute.

Don't I love it when you bask in your stoopid feeling of white vs black? A Filipino can be a "white" or a "dark" depending on social status. We Italians are Caucasians but "dark" in our primitive instincts and behaviours. It's like you have a mental chess game where you move your characters depending on the game you want to play, the point you want to make.

Well wake the hell up, because you know dizzy squat about me, or about Rock or anybody else here. Like we don't know anything about you. At least I am having the grace to exposing some real (and painful) parts of my life. I am generally liking the feedback, but I have to step in and correct you guys when your advice becomes just baseless criticism based on individuals and situations you have never been into, if not gratuitous insults.

Who told you I bang darkies? I said back in the days I had my fair share of fun with the usual single moms and young sluts who go with foreigners. The last time I dated a dark-skinned girl who looks like she's coming from a destitute background was with the young morena who ended up rejecting me. That burned, and gave me the feeling that, darkie or whitey, I should never go lower than my expectations. That's why I am always alone.

[davewe]

Having sex with low class women is a sure way to ensure the quality ones stay away. <----- Truth!

That is, provided:

1) there are quality women who would be interested in dating me;
2) said women are constantly watching every move of mine and judging it.

Pete, the statement above might sound inspiring and truthful but, by my experience, it doesn't define my problem.

I was going to comment on Pete's statement but you beat me to it. The issue isn't whether you should have sex with low class women - Pete is absolutely right - you shouldn't. The issue you and I might disagree on is who is low class or the alternative. What constitutes class in the Philippines has very little to do with what constitutes classes here in the US.

Now everyone has their individual needs and tastes but for me (as a rich kano lol) I did not need a girl who had money or whose parents had money; as you well know those are in short supply in the Philippines. OTOH I did need a smart girl with ambition and education; and that's what I got.

So back to PD's dilemma . If you really think you need one of the Philippines elite, it's gonna be tough, though I certainly won't say it can't happen. But if you can open up to bright, educated and ambitious women who are not from that elite class, the world in the Philippines will open up to you as well. This strikes me as the choice you have to make and only you can make it. As I have told you before, by doing that I ended up with someone much more "elite" than I could have imagined.

[publicduende]

I was going to comment on Pete's statement but you beat me to it. The issue isn't whether you should have sex with low class women - Pete is absolutely right - you shouldn't. The issue you and I might disagree on is who is low class or the alternative. What constitutes class in the Philippines has very little to do with what constitutes classes here in the US.

Now everyone has their individual needs and tastes but for me (as a rich kano lol) I did not need a girl who had money or whose parents had money; as you well know those are in short supply in the Philippines. OTOH I did need a smart girl with ambition and education; and that's what I got.

So back to PD's dilemma . If you really think you need one of the Philippines elite, it's gonna be tough, though I certainly won't say it can't happen. But if you can open up to bright, educated and ambitious women who are not from that elite class, the world in the Philippines will open up to you as well. This strikes me as the choice you have to make and only you can make it. As I have told you before, by doing that I ended up with someone much more "elite" than I could have imagined.

My God, I think it must have something to do with my English. Or I am not in top shape and can't write properly anymore. I will try my message in a bottle one more time...only hoping it can be the last.

1. Admittedly, I am friends with some very well established families in Davao, what one could veritably call the "upper middle class" or the "upper class" in town. I am happy about it. I timidly tried to see if I could get any romantic introduction and, failing that, I am perfectly OK with having them (and their lovely wives) as friends and confidents. For some rather serendipitous reasons, I got to connect with a couple of really well connected people in Manila, who aren't my friends (or won't be until I have gained their full trust) nonetheless they are helping a lot with the business. They're, at least potentially, a great boost for the company.

2. I am NOT looking for elite girls, Dave. I am NOT even looking for middle class girls. I am looking for ANY girl who I am at least reasonably attracted to AND (emphasis on the conjunction) believes her life goes beyond hooking up to a foreign man and sucking up his life support. The latter requirement "kind of" implies that she needs to have 1) a decent degree and 2) some awareness of what to do about it. Possibly, as a wild dream bonus, she will have started a job, even just to prove herself and her family that her financial independence is within reach.

We had a developer community event today, hosted in my office. Most of the attendees were from the same software company. All men, but one girl, and a very cute girl. I mean cute sexy. A UX designer, graduated in IT from USEP, the best public university in Davao after UP. She delivered a speech about colour as related to UX design. Her property of language and sweetness melted my heart. I was won in about 13 minutes. On the break I obviously asked her a few questions and asked her what she was up to for the weekend. Answer: going to Samal to her boyfriend's beach house. Hay nako, almost mathematical. Too hot, too smart, too sweet to be single.

[gsjackson]

Keep plugging away. You're on the right path. As Ralph Waldo Emerson put it: "Put God in your debt." Or Dame Fortuna. Or whomever you think keeps the books.

[davewe]

2. I am NOT looking for elite girls, Dave. I am NOT even looking for middle class girls. I am looking for ANY girl who I am at least reasonably attracted to AND (emphasis on the conjunction) believes her life goes beyond hooking up to a foreign man and sucking up his life support. The latter requirement "kind of" implies that she needs to have 1) a decent degree and 2) some awareness of what to do about it. Possibly, as a wild dream bonus, she will have started a job, even just to prove herself and her family that her financial independence is within reach.

My apologies if I have misinterpreted but you seemed to tell me in one of your other threads that based on your Filipino friends who discouraged you from dating Malay girls that you were looking for someone from their strata - middle class or better.

If what you are in fact seeking is an ordinary but educated girl with a decent job bordering on financial independence - well that is certainly a reasonable and attainable goal.