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Discuss culture, living, traveling, relocating, dating or anything related to the Asian countries - China, The Philippines, Thailand, etc.
Two episodes for your reading delight.
So despite all the lack of time and work-related stress, in the past few weeks I managed to find the time to follow your advice and finally go off the Davao beaten path. I hit DIA for another few days, looking for "new" (less than a week old) profiles of girls outside Davao. After several one or two-liner chats, enter "the girl from Dumaguete", a 24 years old with a cute mestizo looking face and an OK body. Simple HRM degree, no kids, never married. I try to start off a conversation with long and deep messages, which she appreciates.
The long and short of it, three weeks later we are still in touch on Viber. It took her two weeks to finally agree to give me her mobile phone and Viber. She kept saying that she doesn't trust men anymore after breaking up from her (Pinoy) ex-boyfriend, she was unsure as to whether she is ready for another man and she only signed up on DIA on a friend's advice. Coincidentally her elder sister has been on a distance relationship with an American man for 10+ years and only now they're finally starting to plan to marry.
Definitely one of the most decent girls I have found an an online website. Yet, a hard nut to crack. We are always in touch on Viber and exchange pics about our daily life, to feel just that much closer to each other. She sometimes puts up a mini-tantrum about me having other girls or not being reliable. I stopped talking to her for 24 hours and she said I didn't want her anymore. Bloody autocorrect on my phone mispelt her name with another (common) Filipino girl name and she immediately thought I was chatting with this other girl. Standard girl cra, I guess, but at least a sign that she cared about me entertaining her and her alone.
The main problem isn't even that. The main problem is that she is fixated with the idea of having to work abroad to help her family. She came back a few months ago from a 3-year spell in Taipei, where she worked as a factory worker, and she re-applied to work as an au-pair girl in Amsterdam. As she stated several times, she sounds genuinely excited to meet me soon (I am working hard to make it happen around first week of May). Yet there's this elephant in the room, that she keeps mentioning the fact that she will be in Amsterdam by August. As if all my effort to show myself serious and seriously interested in her wouldn't cross her mind.
So the question starts to creep in my mind...what is the point with working hard to entertain this girl when she sees me as a diversion before she takes off to Europe? Why is it that every girl I know of who has some brains or ambitions will want to move abroad to work or (in the best case scenario) to study?
I will probably end up meeting this girl for a few days in Cebu or Manila, we might even hit it off and try to start something that looks like a relationship...only to bring everything to an abrupt close as she decides that, surprise surprise, her family is more important than everything else and she needs to sacrifice herself and clean child poop off the floor for maybe $300 a month to send back home.
Contrary to what people here say, I did listen to the HA Wisemen's advice and try to compromise. She is cute but not exactly model looking. She is quite tall for a Pinoy but flat chested and flat bummed, so not exactly my type phisically. Intelligent? She has a very standard degree in HRM which, not surprisingly, isn't giving her much of a chance to have a decent job. She does write in semi-correct English but not exactly to the level of some smarties I met in Manila and even here in Davao.
This is the best I could find in almost a week of active work on DIA, and by active I mean contacting dozens of girls and playing the trick mentioned in another post, to change my location from Davao to London and hinting at the fact that I am maintaining both a London and Davao residences during the year.
It's not a bad girl, but one that makes me wonder whether 1) I have been compromising too much, going from a 14 (6/8, 7/7 or 8/6) to a maybe 5/6 or 6/5, and 2) it's really worth investing my time and effort (including a short trip to Cebu or Manila just to cross path with her) to date a girl who has already decided will be in Amsterdam by August.
This, ladies and gentleman, is the best I was able to muster looking hard and away from Davao.
Just to complete the picture, I also met an amazing girl at an event organised in Davao by the British Chamber of Commerce. I met C., one of the employees of said chamber of commerce. 24 years old, quite cute (albeit childish cute) and very smart. Ateneo de Manila Management graduate, from a decidedly middle class family (despite losing her dad a few years ago), with two brothers working pretty high-end jobs in London and Paris. Simply, the smartest young Pinay who ever gave me her time of the day. I went out with her 3 times while I was in Manila two weeks ago, on standard dinner dates. On the first two we had some wine and she showed herself a little bit more flirtatious than she probably wanted to, holding hands and letting me kiss her every now and then. On our last date, on a scorching hot Sunday afternoon in Greenbelt, no alcohol, only coffee was involved and she did appear as if she never met me before, she was reluctant to even hold hands and be touched and to my not-so-subtle questions about whether she wanted to meet me again she tepidly answered that "she didn't mind".
Now, I know being with a girl like that would be a dream and does take time and effort. I wouldn't mind putting most of the effort, and I do. I am the one always texting her, at least once a day, but if I don't, she won't text first. Whenever I surprise her with some of my usual flirtatious lines, she just says she doesn't know what to say but appreciates it.
In short: she may well be a hard one to get and certainly not too open to a relationship right now (let alone with an adult foreigner like me). Yet, if I wanted to take off my ordnance infatuation goggles, it would be easy for me to see that, well, she is just not into me. There are no signs that show me that she has any physical attraction towards me and she sees me, at least at this stage, as more than an occasional evening diversion with free dinner and wine.
I am going to be back in Manila on Monday 24 and will try once again to date her once or twice. It pains me that I will have to go through the same routine again...coffee and/or dinner, intellectual chit-chat, some hand holding which seems to be more of the product of slight intoxication, than genuine interest. Maybe I need to be more patient and hammer her on this routine for another few weeks? Or months? Will I be right to expect even the smallest sign of an escalation when I see her again? And missing that, will I be wiser to just tell her that I can't invest too much on a girl who doesn't show more a "flat" passing interest?
In short: despite what some posters say here, at 42 I am definitely feeling the beggar, not the chooser. I feel this is the case with JL, too. At my age and with all the stuff I am busy with, do I really have to beg for interest and play teenage romance and tantrum-laden chats for girls who don't seem to have much of an interest in me?
Is this the only way I can win a decent Filipina? Weeks, maybe months, of pretty much one-sided investment (especially with C) to try and see if she will finally capitulate? It's been 3 weeks and I am frankly already feeling like a moron.
JL: In-person chemistry, or lack thereof, should answer all questions on both sides.
C: I can't gauge her level of interest, but as a COC employee exposed often to the rhetoric of entrepreneurship but not really down where the rubber meets the road, and as a young person with little experience of life, she should have substantial interest in your story, provided you are telling it correctly. Don't leave out the parts about the idealistic nature of the venture, the profit potential, the frustrations, and the alpha male gig you gave up in the City. Ask her advice, even if you don't want it, to get into the narrative. Trick is, you have to believe your story.
And, of course, as usual, your beliefs are your main problem. Don't be a beggar. Just don't. Be something else. If it doesn't work out with these two, move on, and forget about your age and self-constructed notions of scarcity.
You are spot on.
I have had good success wirh one lovely filipina, but that hardly reflects my failures and times i was played for a fool. By the way, there are times when asking for input or advice on some aspect of a business can end up paying great dividends.
Chemistry is quite a different and more inscrutable matter. I seemed to have some kind of appeal to Asian women from the time i was much younger. Partly, it may be that im very much at ease with Asians and they somehow seem to sense my natural affinity for them.
I spent a long time in Latin America and met many beautiful girls, but we just did not click. It was depressing.
I would say, PD's business stress will not help. It really gets in the way of projecting your best.
Yes, but it could actually assist the attraction process if he talks to her about his frustrations. That's who he is right now -- a guy going through business frustrations -- but that hardly makes him less attractive to women, far from it. It humanizes him, brings him down from worldly business man to a level she can relate to. And someone who assists entrepreneurs is who she is, or who she wants to be.
And PD, while you should absolutely forget about your age, there is one concession you might want to make to it, and that's to reexamine your relationship with alcohol. I gather you're a very sociable guy who enjoys the sociability well lubricated. Lord knows I was when I was younger. Nothing I enjoyed more than sitting across the table from an attractive woman over beers and feeling the attraction grow along with my buzz. But around your age I started noticing it was going straight to my gut, and, regardless of how much exercise I got, if I wanted to keep up my end of the attraction bargain I needed to cut back and pick my drinking spots very judiciously. And of course, alcohol can create ephemeral attraction, which seems to be the case with C's reservations the next day. It's the easiest, but not the best modem for beginning a relationship.
But if she's not super into you physically, the female switch can of course flip once she decides you're her guy, and she will be physically attracted enough. So long as you haven't let yourself go to seed with age. It takes a little more work and sacrifice to stay in the attraction business with younger women as you get well into middle age, but it can be done. I'm in the country Georgia right now and am surprised at how many grey-haired guys I'm seeing with attractive young women in their 20s. Don't know if these people are locals or tourists, but the guys all appear to be in pretty good shape and well dressed.
My sense is that you are heading in the right direction. I view it sort of like sales: you have to make a lot of contacts to land a sale, and even more to land the big sale.
So girl #1 has an ambition. That's good but of course inconvenient since she might be moving abroad. If the girl were an unemployed bum we'd complain about her lack of ambition. In this case you're rightly concerned about what the future might be. But since you haven't met her you might continue and see where things lead, without any expectations.
Girl #2 - who knows. She liked you well enough to date you a few times. Whether she likes you well enough to take it another level only time and persistence will tell.
Honestly, this is the way it's supposed to go. If it were easy everyone would be happily married and happily married forever. It ain't that easy - but it can be done. Again, good luck!
Check out my blog @ http://www.marriedafilipina.com
Agreeing to go out three times and letting you smooch, i'd say you're in dude. Just need to keep it interesting i would guess. I hate those formal dinner and coffee dates western style, take her to do something fun where it doesn't feel like a job interview.
It can be a tough call because some girls try to make you put an effort to see if you are for real, but there's a point where you have to decide it's not there, you really don't want a girl that really is detached, she has to contribute eventually.
1)Too much of one thing defeats the purpose.
2)Everybody is full of it. What's your hypocrisy?
Girl number 1, every young girl has dreams and fantasies. They think of going here or there, be in the movies, get a rich husband wakka wakka fish paste. >90% of them never achieve these fantasies. Keep a toe in the water and sooner or later it may pan out. Try get a meet up, if not move on. If it works she will give up those fantasies.After 2-3 weeks of chatting it is time for her to shit or get of the pot. Meet the person or not. Tell her you are a man (even if an italian one bwahahaha! I couldnt resist), are interested in a life with real woman, not just girly gossip by phone.
Girl number 2, if you are holding hands you are on the right path. No decent heifer is going to spread her legs quick until she figures out what you want, The ones you pomp within the first 3 dates are never good for anything but sex. You are looking for a wife, a heifer that will drop calves. So the ones that don't put out until you put out some commitment is what you want, Such heifers will not commit until they make sure the grazing is good and the man is decent and loyal.
What is the problem? Both are worth pursuing. Don't beg. Let them come to you. Stand your ground and ask them out. and gradually escalate. The decent ones will atke a while. There is no set time, Only once things get personal can you expect it to get physical. The more meet ups and the more personal the discussions and revealing your goals the quicker it can be.
Being young they will be insecure and want to talk. You will have to listen to what they say and feign interest. And ask them for opinions. Make them feel like they are respected. Women want to feel they can add value besides sex, the decent one s anyway.
From my experience, I avoided decent and went for easy sex. None of those girls were worth anything as people. The decent one I had to pursue. The sex is better and my life made a lot easier. And she pays her own way as well.
So don't behave like an Italian and retreat or surrender so quick . Keep it up until you get a break through. You need to plan on a prolonged siege, find the access points like common interests, what makes her laugh etc. It sounds like you are making progress.
Just about all men that end up with decent women went through this ritual and suffered blue balls for a while. You will get plenty of good sex later. If you don't want to abstain for a bit and focus on these girls, join winston in angeles city.
Pursuing sex and pursuing a decent woman are 2 different games with different rules and advice. One is selling fun (including money, looks, flirting etc) and you will pay for about all the outings, the other is selling and exposing both yourselves and expecting the woman to put something in besides sex. It is like that Italian expression vidi veni vici. I came I saw I conquered. That for for decent girls. For sluts it is is I saw I conquered I came, and then I left
There are many alternatives to the coffee thing that I also hate. Like a walk in a nature area, a hike (not isolated but common places). It allows for sharing interests, always things to talk about without an interview over a table. The objective is to see how you relate, whether it is easy to do things together and laugh, and over time find out what each brings. If she comes with nothing and has no sense of fun, best to move on. As you say, sooner or later you must decide whether to reel it in or cut bait. Until you do so, there won't be sex with a decent girl.
With my ex, our first date was to a braai, and then next day to a semi-formal police function with a dance afterwards. With the recent one we did things like go hiking around game.Other girlfriends I said would you like to go on a bike trip and lunch and a biker place? Even a decent girl can get a thrill out of that and feel a bit naughty The throbbing between their legs and holding a man doesnt hurt either I pick them up, bring kit for them, help them get it on, which is intimate, and they grab me for dear life even though I take it easy until they tell me to go faster, they meet other bikers and their women, joke around,they see you are respected and liked and because of that they are welcomed, so by the time we eat we have already shared a lot and they are at ease and feeling like someone next to you. No flowers and chocolates and all that BS. Each time I did the standard date thing it was a washout. Too uncomfortable, stressful and boring. Like an interview.
Don't be fooled into thinking #2 likes you just because you've dated her a few times. Your last meeting together suggests that she's not particularly interested. The alcohol she consumed in the dates prior probably made her flirtatious thus giving you the wrong indication. Damn annoying when that happens.
Filipina's aren't into playing mind games like western women are. They're usually after one of two things when foreign men are concerned. A genuine meaningful relationship or a human ATM machine.
Why do western men die before their western wives? Because they want to!
Thanks a lot for weighing in. Even you, Krad, despite your usual (useless) stereotyping on Italians, I find myself agreeing on most of what you say.
Just for a quick update, I am meeting girl #1 (JL) in Manila next next weekend. I am flying her from Dumaguete to Manila and extended my Makati stay by just the weekend and the following Monday. Enough to get to know her better and see if she is as genuine as she transpired to be over our Viber chats. At this point she is already telling me she likes me a lot and looks forwards to meeting me to have her intuition and feelings confirmed (his word). Wouldn't sound that bad, if it weren't for the fact that I am the one who is not that convinced...
Once again...am I going to embark in a relationship with a girl who is not smarter, better looking or more successful than those I have been meeting in Davao? The main thing she has going for her is that she is obsessive about being independent and actually working hard to support her family. I respect this trait a lot, as opposed to many girls in her age and socio-economic bracket, who are either lazy to boot or quickly revert to a lazy lifestyle as soon as they latch on to their foreign man/ATM.
I have no reason to doubt her being a decent and genuine girl. Maybe this is all I need, full stop.
On the other hand, girl #2 (C) is another matter. I am meeting here again too, as I'll be in Makati next week. Potentially next Tuesday, as her COC has an event I will be attending.
Zambales, judging from the fact she did, indeed, text me first one or two days I "forgot" to text her or didn't have load, I believe she is at least curious about continuing to see me. The real question is whether it makes sense to continue to see each other. I will probably ask her out one more time, this time with little or no alcohol involved. If the momentum doesn't pick up again I will try to be frank and tell her the truth, which is, I don't really have the time and patience to stick to her for much longer, especially since I have been 101% honest with her and all my emotional merchandise, all I am and all I can do for her, is on the table for her to see.
About involving either or both of them in outdoor activities, I think it's a fantastic idea. The level of bonding during several activities spanning several hours is far better than what one could extract over dinner or coffee. The only problem is, as usual, the chronical lack of time. I might take JL or C (not both, no time!) to Tagaytay or maybe up north for a day trip, on the Saturday. Let's see.
Sounds like you are in there. Regarding the day trips, is there nothing nearby, like a mountain park, a lake etc? Something with enough people that she doesn't get scared or nervous. Somewhere you can get a lunch.
It will make you seem like a guy that has ideas and does stuff and wants to entertain them. Not just sit in a coffee shop like every other suitor.
With my current one we both like camping and the bush, so hiking was the perfect date. If they are more urban what about walks through an arts market, an area with attractions where they can show you their city etc. Anything active where there are lots of things to talk about.
I think your lack of time might just be a bigger problem then you think it is? Filipino culture is very laid back, very relaxed for the most part. People take their time for things. Relationships among young people aren't exactly rushed, from what I can tell. My sister-in-law, for example, has several suitors. They are quite a persistent bunch! One guy, who eventually got lucky in the end, has been making artworks, even designing a very artistic lamp for her. Not to mention his goal to take her to every waterfall in the province, in his car. So far they've been to twenty-plus waterfalls in various resorts and far-flung locations! They're suckers for big, romantic gestures. Like this one guy who sang his girl pop music songs, and would send them to her always. He sounded exactly like a certain pop singer that's quite famous these days, and you could just see the girl getting aroused whenever she'd play his songs. Beats meeting for lunch in some coffee shop, haha!
Just listen to the music in any Filipino bus when traveling long distance; mostly sappy love songs, Michael Learns To Rock, Air Supply... 1980s and 1990s music. Overly sentimental country music. The young guys here get around plenty, don't get me wrong. And the girls do, too. But the amount of effort they have to put into getting a quality girl, and having her stick around... and these are fashionable, young, twenty-something guys, college and university students. They're fit, they love to party and can drink a Russian seaman under the table, they play guitar, they sing, they are members of the same barkada's, friend groups as the girls, attend similar classes or go to the same college. And still, it takes effort for them. Quite a tough competition for a stranger to wriggle his way into.
To get a Filipina to be really crazy about you, I think you either need to be a very romantic soul, or at the very least do a damn convincing impression of one. If you are a businessman with a busy schedule and little time to invest on building a strong foundation for a relationship, things become more complicated. You can still get a girl, sure, but this girl will likely be the sort of girl that is quite career-oriented herself. The cute, bubbly, happy-go-lucky girls that you really seem to want... those girls have armies of suitors following them and showering them with gifts and attention. Hell, even the moody and not-so-pretty ones have no shortage of attention, as long as they are at least fit and not too dark.
And once you do get a girl, better make sure she's close and not far away somewhere else in the Philippines. A buddy of mine recently got together with a girl from my wife's barkada, a very pretty and sexy girl, funny, witty, well-dressed, really a dream girl. But as soon as the guy leaves for Manila, where he stays, the girl has plenty of boys to play around with. Which, from gossip I've heard, she does plenty. The girl's (male!) roommate is an athletic tattoo-covered stud whose every gesture spells sex, and she's actually more affectionate with him then I've ever seen her with her boyfriend... said boyfriend in Manila doesn't have a clue. It would probably kill him to know, but monogamy isn't her thing. The attention of others is simply too tempting. Temptation is everywhere, if you are young and pretty. And it's easy to give in, even in a conservative Catholic country. Because just a few Hail Mary's and all will be forgiven.
You don't have to beg, my friend, but you do have to do the following:
-1 Be willing to invest a lot of time and effort, in what is at this point a very uneven playing field
-2 Ensure that whatever girl you find, is a girl you are able to keep close to you and keep an eye on
-3 Probably go for girls who are already professionals, because the ones in college have too many temptations and too much time to give in to them
PD please forgive me. I forgot to make jokes about italians in my previous post. But from what marcos says about filpinas liking romantic gestures and songs, perhaps you can take your mandolin and sing mama mia la dolce vita or o solo mio on a canoe somewhere.
You didn't mention this in your original post though hence why I came to that conclusion. All you said was that you were doing all the texting.
The reason to why she was standoffish was probably down to you inadvertently ignoring her texts.
If I was you, I'd apologize to her for this misdemeanour. Pinays are sensitive souls.
I see the clearer picture now and it does look promising.
Why do western men die before their western wives? Because they want to!
Not that anyone would care, but if it is like that in the Philippines, how Marcos describes, then I would rather go with a westerner.
But I suspect it's just one man's experience. Any woman who lives with another man is not relationship material, unless that man is a brother or other close relative.
And a man should never beg. Begging is not attractive in men. The man is the leader. That's the problem with popular culture. It teaches men that women have more value than them and that women should be worshiped. If you buy into that, you will fail, unless you find a woman who wants to rule you (and abuse you).